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blankseplocked Black Ops : The changes we need (No Covopcloacking thread)
 
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SMT008
Posted - 2011.08.10 14:23:00 - [1]
 

Hey there.

We all know what BlackOps T2 Battleships are. Takes a while to train for, is really difficult to use it properly due to stupid (read "pre-nerfed") stats like jumpranges/fuel usage, and really not worth the price.

I am aware that what I will ask feedback about have probably been posted somewhere else already, but I did check the "Commonly proposed stuff" or something, and I couldn't find anything about those ships, so here it is :

First of all, I think that in order to make a ship that isn't going to be a solopwnmachine, it NEEDS to be separated in two classes. You can't have everything at once on those ships.

The "Support Black Op" :

T2 Resistances

Why the **** not ? It's already a cruiser-like ship in terms of HPs. Also, it cost quite a lot.

Current shield/armor/structure HP


Nothing to say here, it's a support ship. If it goes on the battlefield, something's wrong. It's fragile, it doesn't do much DPS. It just helps the gang doing what it should be doing.

A decent jump range. I would say, 4LY base, that makes a 9LY range with JDC 5.

THIS. CCP, you have to. Really. It's a battleship, we know that, it's not supposed to jump far and all. But for the ship to be a bit effective, you need that. The current range is just not enough, considering that a cloacky gang with a black op is not really "stealthy" if anyones happen to scan at the bad moment, it's no longer a surprise ********* party. The gang needs to stay hidden, to park in a system with no activity, and then begin looking for **** to kill in the area. But in order to reach that empty system, you'll have to go through region gates or to jump to a midpoint, and that will reveal your gang composition.

Less guns, more support modules. That means, remote armor rep/remote shield rep.


Not, a long range killing machine. I don't want it to be used in blobs of 30 in order to kill carriers and such from a long distance. Bombers and recons are supposed to be bridged with that ship, and no other utilizations should be doable.

Low fuel consumption. Or higher fuel bay.

This single thing, is why black ops are a HUGE pain to use properly. Why, the heck, would anyone NEED to have a transport ship in order to use blackops decently ? What's the point of NEEDING a transport ship when the black op, T2 battleship, worth hundreds of millions, is supposed to be the ship that supports his gang. There is, definetly, no reason for that ship not to be able to do his job without someone dualboxing in order to fix that stupid and annoying parameter.

And, possibly, as a bonus, a fitting service for covert ships. Just to change jammers, bomb launchers or whatever. It's not necessary, it's not going to capsize the whole game balancing, it's just a small additionnal feature that would be cool, in my humble opinion.

In the end, NO COVOPS CLOACKING DEVICE ON THIS SHIP. It's already uncatchable, if used right. There is, literally, no room for another way to be even more uncatchable.

Skill requirements :

Battleship V, Cloacking IV, JDO V, JDC4, Black Ops III, Logistic IV maybe ?

Price => Around 600M I would say.

It's not a ship you're going to loose anytime soon, it's not a solo ship, so 600M seems low enough not to be a pain to buy for the briding guy, since he don't get any fun from bridging.


The "Combat Black Op" :

T2 Resistances

It cost a lot, it's T2 and very long to train for. Why no T2 resistances then.

Battleship shield/armor/structure HP.


Because it's a freaking T2 combat battleship. It should be able to kill the T1 couterpart without much troubles. A vagabond would kill a stabber anyday. Same goes for a Sleipnir, it can tear a whole in a hurricane like a hotknife through butter. So at least let the black ops be somewhat competitive with a T1 battleships. Especially if they cost 6/8x the price, and have huge skill recquirements.

Not so ******ed bonuses.

Agility bonus CCP ? Really ? On a goddamn drone boat ?

SMT008
Posted - 2011.08.10 14:28:00 - [2]
 


Listen up, those ships are supposed to strike fast and hard, while still being battleships. By not using any additionnal ships other than black op battleships, those ships need to have recon bonuses.

That means, the "Black Op" skill bonus should be reworked for those :

Panther : 25% web range bonus per level. That means, with T2 webs, 20km webrange at IV, 22.5km at V, 29.25km OL.

Sin : 20% disrupt and scrambler range bonus per level. That means, with T2 scramblers/disruptors, 16.2km/43.2km at IV, 18km/48km at V, 21.6km/57.6km.

Redeemer : I would like to tell you guys something before telling you about the bonuses. The whole point of those combat battleships, is their ability to strike fast and get out fast.
I would like the Redeemer to become a Curse battleship, basicly. It can still use it's weapons like every other battleship, but in a gang it's pilot might want to switch for neutralizers.
So in order for this ship not to be so much affected by the capwhoring nature of neutralizers, the following bonuses would help :

20% reduction to neutralizers capacitor needs, and 20% reduction to neutralizers duration.

Yep, that's it. The whole point is to make it able to cycle a few times the neutralizers, since heavy neutralizers have a 24s duration, which is quite a long time for those fast-striking battleships.
Also, the reduction to capacitor needs is here not to impact the ship so much. In such a gang, the panthers/widows/sins will be able to jump out way faster than a Redeemer that used his neutralizers.

Widow : Actual bonuses seems okay. I couldn't think of anything else.

Actual jump range.

This one is important. It will be a really good combat ship. It doesn't need the range. The support version does, however. But this one don't, the range is fine for the combat version.

Actual fuel consumption. Those ships won't bridge anything. And I did the maths, you can do 8 jumps at max range before having to refuel. Maybe you can reduce a bit the fuel consumption, but it's not really an absolutly needed feature like on the other version.

Actual DPS.

Those ships are harder to kill, can jump and have recon bonuses. There is no need for additionnal DPS. Actually, what I would definetly like, is that the DPS should come from the guns.
In order to be "fast striking", you need to use guns. Blasters, ACs, Pulse lazers, even Torpedoes are somehow fine. Not heavy drones, not sentry drones or that kind of slow-ass stuff that you are constantly waiting for them to dock up in your ship so you can warp to safety.

Also, remove the whole "cloacked velocity". No one cares about this bonus, except panther users that likes to snipe gatecamps maybe. I would say, replace it with a 100% reduction to cloacking device effect on scan resolution, since battleships have an already low scanres.

Price => I would say 900M, but it could be more, I'll let CCP decide about that.

Basicly, it's comparable to a faction battleship, with a jump drive on it, and with a much larger skillset recquired. So, a 900M price is what I would pay for that. The range is still short, but the rest of the ship's features makes up for the range thing. Also, you don't need ****load of fuel to use it. Basicly, a "working as intended" ship.
It's still a costly ship, don't get me wrong. You can still loose it to prepared peoples if they bait you. And they probably will, since such a ship will usually be a pimpmachine, at that price.
Also, the price will disencourage peoples using those in roaming gangs. I mean, roamings with Machariels are quite common. a roaming with a Panther with those caracteristics would be a bit too much (Web bonuses, so no need for huginns ?). That's why I'm like "900M seems fine, but make it 1B2 it you think it's worth that price".

Skill recquired :

Battleship V, Cloacking IV, Black Ops IV, JDO V, JDC 4.

SMT008
Posted - 2011.08.10 14:40:00 - [3]
 


And as a conclusion, since the combat black op thing is all about ganking, I'll kindly ask CCP, on the behalf of the EVE community.

Please, use the tier 3 hulls. Those are exaclty what we're looking for, for the "ganking" part, since Tier 3 battleships are supposed to be damagedealers.

Imagine the Rokh with the Widow's paintjob. Imagine the mighty Hyperion, imagine the Maelstrom with that camo on.

CCP guys, I'm pretty sure a whole part of the EVE community is definetly willing to buy and use those ships, if they are actually usable as gang support or ganking battleships, if they actually looks cool (The Widow is godly, the Redeemer is fine...And that's it. The Sin/Typhoon are kinda ugly by almost everyone's standard. If you don't want to put manpower on changing the models, even though it would be awesome, at least use the only hulls that don't have a T2 counterpart, pretty please.)

SMT008
Posted - 2011.08.11 18:29:00 - [4]
 

I suppose one bump allowed/day ? So here it is !

Feedback appreciated ;)

Emuar
Amarr
Cursed Smile
Posted - 2011.08.11 20:49:00 - [5]
 

i am not sure about jump range, but other things look very attractive

mxzf
Minmatar
Shovel Bros
Posted - 2011.08.11 21:26:00 - [6]
 

I like the sound of it.

Andy Landen
Caldari
Posted - 2011.08.11 22:46:00 - [7]
 

Edited by: Andy Landen on 11/08/2011 22:48:23
Great ideas, but I must admit that I do not understand the split between support BO and combat BO, unless you are mirroring the force recon/combat recon split. I must support the cov ops cloak on any BO, though, for it to operate as part of the elite, exclusive, sneaky BO team. I also love the idea of a cloaky recon that can travel with BO gangs. A cloaky Tengu with 4 Lg RR reaching up to 60 km and the ability to jump through a BO portal please.

Some questions for you:

How is it that either of those ships are hard to catch with your proposal?

Why does the whole gang have to warp between gates to reveal their fleet comp? How about just BO cyno everywhere by BO cyno ships?
Why do we have to split the BO into support and combat and why doesn't the combat BO get the longer portal range too?

So I propose: T3 cruiser logi configurations comparable to regular logi (4 lg RR). BO bonuses comparable to Force Recon including covert ops cloak and speed bonus. 5-10 ly portal range. I support the module fitting service, too. They are supposed to effectively operate behind enemy lines.

SMT008
Posted - 2011.08.11 23:38:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Andy Landen
Edited by: Andy Landen on 11/08/2011 22:48:23
How is it that either of those ships are hard to catch with your proposal?


Because basicly, the bridging one is uncatchable, at all. It will stay behind at first, in an empty system, until he bridge stuff. He won't see any hostiles at first.
Then, he might want to bridge back his fleet in the empty system. One of his fleetmates will open a covert cyno, the BO will cloack on arrival, he will wait for the capacitor to refill, he will tell his mates to warp on him or whatever, he will bridge the gang and jump out as soon as everyone left the system. Simple as that.

The other version is quite difficult to catch. A bit less, since it will actually go on the battlefield, but still. It's supposed to be solo or in a small gang, in order to take down smaller gangs or ratting carriers for exemple. Basicly, it's almost the same as a cloacky nullifier T3. You can bait it, but that's pretty much all. But, if you manage to bait even one of those, you get a nice and expensive kill. Since it won't go through gate all by himself (without a scout), you won't catch it with a gatecamp.

Originally by: Andy Landen
Edited by: Andy Landen on 11/08/2011 22:48:23
Why does the whole gang have to warp between gates to reveal their fleet comp? How about just BO cyno everywhere by BO cyno ships ?


Because, for exemple. When you're attacking Cobalt Edge from Tenal. The last system of Tenal is connected to the first system of Cobalt Edge. That's one jump for regular ships, but that's a whole lot of LY for jump capable ships. That means, to get in Cobalt Edge from Tenal, you're forced to either go in CE from elsewhere, or you can jump in Cobalt Edge by using the regular gates. Considering you have quite a large gang, you'll be spotted right away just by jumping in. Which is quite annoying, considering you have a jump drive and a jump portal that exactly means "I won't get spotted by using gates".

Originally by: Andy Landen
Edited by: Andy Landen on 11/08/2011 22:48:23
Why do we have to split the BO into support and combat and why doesn't the combat BO get the longer portal range too?


Because if you don't split the blackops, you'll either end up with a ship that have a good jump range, won't consume too much fuel for bridging, will have a decent amount of EHP, and with recon bonuses. Imo, too much for one ship.

By spitting the two, you either have a good combat battleship (better than T1 in EHP at least, with recon bonuses...) but that can't jump far away nor bridge anything, or the exact opposite. Something that can support the gang, jump far, but can't work solo or in a very small gang.

Barbara Nichole
Cryogenic Consultancy
Black Sun Alliance
Posted - 2011.08.12 04:25:00 - [9]
 

I agree with almost everything saiud here except the cloak thing. It's still the only ship in a ops fleet that can't use an ops cloak. I would sacrifice the sniper useage for the cloak. I don't need another ranger battleship.. I do need an ops support ship that can keep up.


Jack Tronic
Posted - 2011.08.12 05:06:00 - [10]
 

Edited by: Jack Tronic on 12/08/2011 05:07:06
If people want covert cloaks, let them, but have it offline the bridge module and it impossible to use other black op bridges while it online due to "cynosural instability" or something. Then if they want the bridge module, they must offline the cloak first and then online the bridge.

Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
Posted - 2011.08.12 06:43:00 - [11]
 

Same general concept I'd like to see, but where you aim for BO-only gangs my aim is covert gangs with the BO being the 'anchor'.
- Increase EHP values to T1 level.
- Increase Jump/Bridge range.
- Add zero m3 maintenance array.
- *Optional* Fleet bonus akin to what the Titan's have (static gang-links)

King Rothgar
Autocannons Anonymous
Posted - 2011.08.12 08:23:00 - [12]
 

I can support every part of this. It's a very reasonable proposal and balanced proposal imho.

SMT008
Posted - 2011.08.12 11:55:00 - [13]
 

I don't think the covert ops cloacking device is needed.

Basicly, the jump drive removes the need for a covop cloacking.

The bomber jump in the system, warp cloacked to the target, kill the target, cloack and jump out.

The Black Ops wait for their bait/hunter to find a target, jump on top of the target, kill the target, warp to safespot, cloack, and jump out whenever they want.

You don't HAVE to go through gates with a Black Op. That means, you don't have any gatecamps to evade (Anyway, think about evading a competant gatecamp with a cloacked battleship. It won't work, even without bubbles).

From what I can see, those ships are already difficult to catch. I mean, you can bait the combat version with a counterhotdrop, you could even bait the support black op that wants to be on the killmail by waiting for him to jump on you and THEN counterhotdrop. But it's basicly like a cloacky nullifier. If it dont want to get caught, you won't catch it (Or you'll have troubles catching it).

Also, if you're looking for the cloacky gang support thing, you want the support black op. More range, more fuel.

About the bonuses, I was thinking about the support blackops having a special set of bonuses, but I don't know what kind of bonuses would you want in a cloacky gang. Shield bonuses are mostly useless since you just jumped in the fight. Skirmish bonuses, well, who cares about additionnal speed or tackle range when you jumped on top of a carrier. Armor bonuses, who cares. Information bonuses ? Lol.

Really, I couldn't think of any cloack bonuses.

Reicine Ceer
Rodents of Unusual Size
Posted - 2011.08.12 12:30:00 - [14]
 

Great ideas! With the upcoming Black Ops changes soon, i hope this is close to how CCP are gonna work it :)

SMT008
Posted - 2011.08.13 20:18:00 - [15]
 

Come on, players or CCP guys, give some feedback :)

bartos100
DARK ADAMA
Terra Axiom
Posted - 2011.08.13 21:42:00 - [16]
 

i like the idea
the need for a covert fuel-truck is really stupid that has to change

and as you said cov-ops cloak is not needed on BO

Gabriel Karade
Gallente
Noir.
Noir. Mercenary Group
Posted - 2011.08.13 22:01:00 - [17]
 

Edited by: Gabriel Karade on 13/08/2011 22:01:52
Quote:
Also, remove the whole "cloacked velocity". No one cares about this bonus
No-one, except those who HAVE used Black Ops and understand the implications in terms of game-mechanics of this bonus...

I fly a Sin quite frequently and find the agility bonus to be rather useful, particularly in combination with the above. And quite frankly I despair about some of the 'Black Ops Fixes' we see floated around these forums - just nudge the jump range up of all of them up and reduce the build cost.

SMT008
Posted - 2011.08.13 22:40:00 - [18]
 

Ability bonus is fine when you use turrets mainly. Not with heavy drones, because they are still slow. Not with sentries, because if you start aligning, you won't be able to scoop them.

If you don't use drones on your Sin then it's fine.

Also, I can understand the fact that yes, cloacked velocity can be used with high alpha setups for guerilla tactics with a Panther for exemple. But in my humble opinion, those ships are supposed to either support a cloacky gang by bridging them, or gank a single target with enough blackops to take it down fast enough. Not warping on a covop and snipe small stuff camping a gate.

Actually, you CAN use them for that, but well, it's not worth the money and the skillpoints imo.

Aeon Noblemagus
Minmatar
Jupiter Force
Posted - 2011.08.14 09:22:00 - [19]
 

100% support this idea in every way, except for maybe putting the covet cloak on the support Black Op/

Gabriel Karade
Gallente
Noir.
Noir. Mercenary Group
Posted - 2011.08.14 09:40:00 - [20]
 

SMT008, clearly you aren't aware of what I'm referring to - it isn't anything to do how fast you move around the grid - think about it...

('In-system' mobilty)

SMT008
Posted - 2011.08.14 11:02:00 - [21]
 

Since you can't put a covop cloacking device, and only a regular cloacking device, you can't do anything else than moving around the grid while cloacked.

Could you please explain a bit ?

Vladimir Markov
Posted - 2011.08.14 16:09:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Gabriel Karade
Edited by: Gabriel Karade on 13/08/2011 22:01:52
Quote:
Also, remove the whole "cloacked velocity". No one cares about this bonus
No-one, except those who HAVE used Black Ops and understand the implications in terms of game-mechanics of this bonus...

I fly a Sin quite frequently and find the agility bonus to be rather useful, particularly in combination with the above. And quite frankly I despair about some of the 'Black Ops Fixes' we see floated around these forums - just nudge the jump range up of all of them up and reduce the build cost.



I agree with this, that little "cloaked velocity bonus" has gotten me out of a lot of sticky situations. If you don't give it a CovOps Cloak, Then the velocity bonus is very needed!

Gabriel Karade
Gallente
Noir.
Noir. Mercenary Group
Posted - 2011.08.14 22:24:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: SMT008
Since you can't put a covop cloacking device, and only a regular cloacking device, you can't do anything else than moving around the grid while cloacked.

Could you please explain a bit ?
no.

Very Happy

(I think you'd gain more by flying one and learning this for yourself - gets really noticable at Black Ops V)

Nyarlothotep
The Blue Dagger Mercenery Agency
Posted - 2011.08.14 22:54:00 - [24]
 

My biggest problems with these ships is the bonuses and jump range limitation. The frig and cruiser hulls cover most of everything needed in the way of EW better than the BO. The focus of the BO should be DPS and the mobility of the fleet.

The ability to fit the Covert Ops cloak is a must. I would like to see the cloaked velocity bonus changed to +1 ly to Maximum Jump Range per level. The base Jump Range should be 1 ly.

Sin: I would like to see a change from the drone damage bonus to a hybrid range bonus, smaller drone bay, and add 1 turret hardpoint. I really like the difference the agility bonus makes from level 1 to 5.

Redeemer: While the tracking bonus is nice, all the other ships get a bonus to something that helps keep the ship alive.

Widow: My favorite of the bunch. The EW bonus helps it in tanking.

Panther: Again I like this one. No complaints on bonuses.

Unbendable McRib
Posted - 2011.08.15 10:00:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Nyarlothotep

The ability to fit the Covert Ops cloak is a must. I would like to see the cloaked velocity bonus changed to +1 ly to Maximum Jump Range per level. The base Jump Range should be 1 ly.




agree with that

Plz give Black Ops a chance to warp with activatet Covert ops Cloak. Thanks Very Happy

Fon Revedhort
Monks of War
DarkSide.
Posted - 2011.08.15 10:43:00 - [26]
 

Edited by: Fon Revedhort on 15/08/2011 10:43:57
Originally by: SMT008
Hey there.

The "Support Black Op" :

T2 Resistances

Why the **** not ? It's already a cruiser-like ship in terms of HPs. Also, it cost quite a lot.

Current shield/armor/structure HP



In the end, NO COVOPS CLOACKING DEVICE ON THIS SHIP. It's already uncatchable, if used right. There is, literally, no room for another way to be even more uncatchable.


lol

My abso and NH don't get proper tech2 resistances and you want those on a battleship? Come on, get real.

I bolded the words expressing why exactly B/O are (mostly) fine as they are. You pay 600 mil exactly for your cloak-jump-***gotry. Whoever told you this price tag includes combat capabilities beyond normal was either a troll or a fool. Make your pick.

SMT008
Posted - 2011.08.15 14:15:00 - [27]
 

Edited by: SMT008 on 15/08/2011 14:21:56
I would like someone to tell me why exactly do you need a covert ops cloacking device.

Not for evading gatecamps, the jumpdrive exists for a reason. (Also, lol at evading any competent gatecamp with a cloacking battleship. Even if it can warp cloack, you can't warp fast enough to get out before a frigate decloacks you. And I'm not even talking about gatecamps with a dictor.)

Not for getting in the fight, the covertcynos exists for a reason. If the plan is to wait next door and to jump when the target is tackled, you might want a nanoHAC gang. It does basicly the same thing in the end. And you can still evade gatecamps easily, if you know what you are doing.

Then what ? It's not about wandering around a gatecamp with a SB Artypanther so you can oneshot frigs/dictors, it's about hotdropping stuff.

The bombers/recons have the covops cloacking to actually travel behind the ennemy lines. The BOs don't need it, you can just jump behind the gatecamps/ennemy lines !

And let's talk about the fighting part then. You jump on the target. You start killing it. I don't think being able to warp cloacked will actually help you killing a target. Jump in, Lock, shoot, warp in a safe, cloack up, jump out when you have enough capacitor. Done. Simple as that.

It's already uncatchable if used right. The only moment you can catch it is when it actually gets on the battlefield. That's the only moment where the ennemy is able to get a point on the black ops. When you're waiting for your baits/hunters to catch something, you're cloacked in a safe

Also, the guy talking about "My abso and NH don't get proper tech2 resistances".

Maybe not T2 resistances like on a Vagabond (Like, only on 2 resistances). But if I'm not mistaken, those are command ships. If you're lacking an improvement on resistances from the T1 hull, there is something wrong.

Prophecy => 50/35/25/20
Absolution => 62.5/51.3/64.8/77.5

Want the Nighthawk ?

Ferox (lol) => 0/20/40/50
Nighthawk => 25/77.5/71.9/62.5

If that's not improved resistances, tell me what it is.

Also, you might want to read the whole posts (all 3 of them).

What I'm trying to explain with the concept of having 2 types of blackops, is that the support BO is paperthin, not designed for battle, but it can bridge his gang far away, with a huge fuel bay.

The combat blackops is for when you don't have plenty of bombermates/reconguys to go with you, and you actually want to fly something that isn't paperthin like a bomber is.

My problem with those ships is that every T2 ships (except some like bombers) in the game (Vagabond vs Stabber, Sleipnir vs Cyclone, Ishkur vs Imicus, Absolution vs Damnation) can beat the crap out of the T1 hull with equivalent fittings and skills. The jumpdrive is an improvement from the T1 hull, but with those penalties (the EHP being so low), it's the least you could expect from a T2 battleship, imo.

Also, there is already threads about fixing blackops. You might want to read the title that says something along the lines of "(NO COVOPSCLOACKING THREAD)" or something like that. I did read a few threads about blackop fixes, where it's all about yelling at CCP "we want covop cloacking devices on blackops". I wanted something else, that's all ;) I tried my best to think about something that would work "as intended".

If I'm mistaken somewhere, please tell me what's wrong by explaining why is it wrong. Not by telling me things like "you'll see" or "fly them you'll understand". Thank you for your time.

BlackPlague
Dark Light Inc
Caretakers
Posted - 2011.08.15 16:54:00 - [28]
 

At the very least give them a fuel bay.

Fon Revedhort
Monks of War
DarkSide.
Posted - 2011.08.15 20:33:00 - [29]
 

Edited by: Fon Revedhort on 15/08/2011 20:39:57
Originally by: SMT008

Also, the guy talking about "My abso and NH don't get proper tech2 resistances".

Maybe not T2 resistances like on a Vagabond (Like, only on 2 resistances). But if I'm not mistaken, those are command ships. If you're lacking an improvement on resistances from the T1 hull, there is something wrong.

Prophecy => 50/35/25/20
Absolution => 62.5/51.3/64.8/77.5

Want the Nighthawk ?

Ferox (lol) => 0/20/40/50
Nighthawk => 25/77.5/71.9/62.5

If that's not improved resistances, tell me what it is.

Also, you might want to read the whole posts (all 3 of them).


Are you high or something?

Where do those figures come from? You counted in resist bonus for tech2 and miss it for tech1 ships while in fact - just for your information - tech2 ships recieve better resistances only for 2 fking damage types, not 4.

Also, you might want to read my post thoroughly and check out the work 'proper'. Do you know what it means? Go compare base resistances of NH with 1) Cerberus 2) Vulture and 3) Tengu. Make the same comparison for Abso and 1) Zealot 2) Damnation 3) Legion

You demagogy is just patheric - you know, it works in both directions.

50 % 20 % 25 % 35 % - Armageddon
50 % 28 % 28.75 % 35 % - Redeemer

Now go tell me those are not improved resistances Laughing

Quote:
My problem with those ships is that every T2 ships (except some like bombers) in the game (Vagabond vs Stabber, Sleipnir vs Cyclone, Ishkur vs Imicus, Absolution vs Damnation) can beat the crap out of the T1 hull with equivalent fittings and skills. The jumpdrive is an improvement from the T1 hull, but with those penalties (the EHP being so low), it's the least you could expect from a T2 battleship, imo.

You comparison will be only valid if and when Vagabonds, Sleipnir and so on will recieve features simular to Black Ops - that is, jumping/portal capabilities.

You may think whatever you want, I'm just telling you how it is.

Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
Posted - 2011.08.16 09:57:00 - [30]
 

Was trying to cook up a decent fit for a Redeemer and had an epiphany.

What if: AB's could be used while cloaked, perhaps with a doubling of cap use (to mitigate over-sizing issues?

- BO's would become quite zippy while cloaked (~2/3rds MWD speeds).
- Covert users would have some on-grid manoeuvring capability without needing a bazillion tactical BM's.
- Regular ships with cloaks would still be more or less stationary.

Note: BO's Still needs to have tier1 tank values and various other tweaks, but in addition ..


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