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Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2011.08.10 13:15:00 - [31]
 

Edited by: Tippia on 10/08/2011 13:17:24
Originally by: Shadowfoot
Lets be realistic here for a moment, if this forum had a balance of 'good and bad', there would be nothing wrong. Except that it's 95% negative, and 5% constructive.
…and maybe that's a hint that you should look into a bit more closely.
Quote:
It is not your job to address the "cause" of the unhappiness
Actually, it is. If I'm unhappy, then explaning the source of said unhappiness, finding out of others feel the same way, and demonstrating that it is indeed a problem is the first step towards potentially solving that issue.
Quote:
in fact you're the one creating the unhappiness
That is not a fact, no.
Quote:
CCP has a vision for the game. They will take your advice into consideration; IN THE SUGGESTIONS FORUM.
…yeah, but you see, there are so many steps before that, and those are just as valid and necessary as the suggestion itself — in many cases more so, in fact.
Quote:
Stop trying to impose your views on how things should be run.
Yes, please do. Stop whining just because others do not adhere to your views about what should be in the forums.
Quote:
these forums would be a much more fun place to participate in if everyone was truly respectful and argued constructively as opposed to spewing negative criticisms all over the place
Oh, you mean like creating whine threads about how other people communicate the issues they see with the game and dismissing those concerns as “crying” just because you don't want to read it? That doesn't sound particularly respectful or constructive, and more like spewing negative criticism. So yes, I think I'll go with that parallel still: if you don't want to discuss EVE, both good and bad, then you can stay out of the forums.

Karl Planck
Labyrinth Obtaining Chaotic Kangaroos
Posted - 2011.08.10 13:17:00 - [32]
 

Edited by: Karl Planck on 10/08/2011 13:19:14
Originally by: Shadowfoot

I'm glad you're into creating arguments "parallel" to mine, maybe one day we can create an argumentative trigonometric masterpiece.
Lets be realistic here for a moment, if this forum had a balance of 'good and bad', there would be nothing wrong. Except that it's 95% negative, and 5% constructive.

You are not an Eve developer. You're also not a customer service vigilante, an anarchist warrior. It is not your job to address the "cause" of the unhappiness - in fact you're the one creating the unhappiness and then complaining that no one is there to fix it.
CCP has a vision for the game. They will take your advice into consideration; IN THE SUGGESTIONS FORUM. If their vision does not align with yours, then yes, really, you can leave the game. Stop trying to impose your views on how things should be run.


I agree with what your saying in principle for sure. Moreover, I also support flaming the trolls responding thus far just to keep the number of whining to anti-whining threads in a quasi-balance.

In general though, i just miss the old GD. I mean, these threads used to be entertaining. Outside new players, players looking to come into the game and pathetic protestors (it was pathetic and you guys know it) no one takes these threads seriously. If no one is taking it seriously then lets just go back to the good ol GD.

Edit* btw Tippia, when did your trolls become so lame? Maybe your not trolling and everyone has just been inappropriately giving your level of intelligence the benefit of the doubt.

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2011.08.10 13:22:00 - [33]
 

Originally by: Karl Planck
btw Tippia, when did your trolls become so lame? Maybe your not trolling and everyone has just been inappropriately giving your level of intelligence the benefit of the doubt.
What's trolling about it?

He's being a hypocrite and is inventing pure nonsense to support a view that is downright counter-productive and quite contrary to the whole point of having a forum.

I don't quite see how explaining these facts to him counts as a troll…

Karl Planck
Labyrinth Obtaining Chaotic Kangaroos
Posted - 2011.08.10 13:25:00 - [34]
 

Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Karl Planck
btw Tippia, when did your trolls become so lame? Maybe your not trolling and everyone has just been inappropriately giving your level of intelligence the benefit of the doubt.
What's trolling about it?

He's being a hypocrite and is inventing pure nonsense to support a view that is downright counter-productive and quite contrary to the whole point of having a forum.

I don't quite see how explaining these facts to him counts as a troll…


Sigh, i have been of the impression that your responses in the past were usually trolls (which made a good chunk of your posts quite funny). Sad face

Shadowfoot
Caldari
STRONG TRADING BRO
Posted - 2011.08.10 13:25:00 - [35]
 

Originally by: Karl Planck

Edit* btw Tippia, when did your trolls become so lame? Maybe your not trolling and everyone has just been inappropriately giving your level of intelligence the benefit of the doubt.


Haha, I actually lol'd in real life.

Good post.

Lady Spank
Amarr
In Praise Of Shadows
Posted - 2011.08.10 13:25:00 - [36]
 

Babby speak "You are trolling"

English translation "I don't like your opinion and find your tone patronising, even though I am a massive babby and don't deserve to be spoken to with anything but derision."

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2011.08.10 13:29:00 - [37]
 

Originally by: Karl Planck
Sigh, i have been of the impression that your responses in the past were usually trolls (which made a good chunk of your posts quite funny). Sad face
They're not.
Trust me, if I troll, you'll know it… Twisted Evil

In this case, though, I'm simply calling the OP out on his trolling.

Karl Planck
Labyrinth Obtaining Chaotic Kangaroos
Posted - 2011.08.10 13:49:00 - [38]
 

Originally by: Lady Spank
Babby speak "You are trolling"

English translation "I don't like your opinion and find your tone patronising, even though I am a massive babby and don't deserve to be spoken to with anything but derision."


Naw, you know what i am talking about spank. And i am a huge fan of the monocle trolls (especially the original) as well as Mr. Epeen , among others.

@Tippia, touche

Lady Spank
Amarr
In Praise Of Shadows
Posted - 2011.08.10 13:53:00 - [39]
 

I genuinely dislike all the dumb trolls on these forums. The problem is everyone is so quick to use that brush to tar everyone just because they are being slightly patronising when delivering an opposing view, or putting down someone who is being an imbecile like the OP.

LittleTerror
Day Unhappy Security Inc.
Posted - 2011.08.10 13:56:00 - [40]
 

Originally by: Laganda
I will start you off with trolls you are 100% correct but you now your gonna ge trolled by idiots that don't know any think but there own little world


dude, your boobs...

jackaloped
Posted - 2011.08.10 14:04:00 - [41]
 

Another "everyone who thinks incarna sucks is wrong" thread.

Here is the thing. EVE at least in low sec has about half the numbers in local that I am used to seeing. The UI is slow so you can't warp your pods out, skills weren't applying to ships. But even beyond that, many people think ccp is doing horrible for many many other reasons. And its not "just a few" players.

Posting in the forums that “CCP is doing fine” is just going to bring many posts explaining why you are wrong. Not necessarily trolls just people who think ccp is screwing the pooch.

All of these white knight threads end up the same. OP posts how great ccp is doing. Then it turns into 5 pages of people telling the op why CCP is doing horrible. Then another white knight thread pops up calling all the players cry babies and hooray for walking in stations and virtual clothes! And the same thing keeps happening.

OP if you want to continue to create threads bashing ccp keep doing what you are doing. But at this point most of the whine threads are people like you whining because so many people disagree with you.




Miss Rabblt
Posted - 2011.08.10 14:05:00 - [42]
 

Originally by: Tippia
Quote:
in fact you're the one creating the unhappiness
That is not a fact, no.

in fact it is. It is enough to new person to simply visit Eve forums and find that Eve is dieing, everything is broken and people unsub. After this "first experience" no one will even try to login because "game is ****ty".

And what will you do after your problem was solved to return those new people? Nothing.

This is result of you forum warriors work for Eve. Thanks to you!

Lady Spank
Amarr
In Praise Of Shadows
Posted - 2011.08.10 14:09:00 - [43]
 

Originally by: Miss Rabblt
Originally by: Tippia
Quote:
in fact you're the one creating the unhappiness
That is not a fact, no.

in fact it is. It is enough to new person to simply visit Eve forums and find that Eve is dieing, everything is broken and people unsub. After this "first experience" no one will even try to login because "game is ****ty".

And what will you do after your problem was solved to return those new people? Nothing.

This is result of you forum warriors work for Eve. Thanks to you!


Wrong once again. This is CCP's doing by making a **** up of their game by filling it with game breaking bugs and badly implemented features.

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2011.08.10 14:17:00 - [44]
 

Originally by: Miss Rabblt
Originally by: Tippia
Quote:
in fact you're the one creating the unhappiness
That is not a fact, no.
in fact it is.
Ah, so it's always your fault if I punch you in the face.
Quote:
And what will you do after your problem was solved to return those new people? Nothing.
And "nothing" is exactly what you're asking for (since it won't scare away those new players), so then it's all good, right?

Thornat
Posted - 2011.08.10 14:22:00 - [45]
 

Edited by: Thornat on 10/08/2011 14:24:52
Edited by: Thornat on 10/08/2011 14:23:34
Edited by: Thornat on 10/08/2011 14:23:05
Not to offend the poster, your entitled to your opinion and welcome to share it, glad you did. But frankly as a new player (from what I can tell) your ability to asses the game is going to be severly hindered and you have to understand that players that have been here for many years have a lot more context and experiance for the issues at hand. Their are issues and you are right, many of these people do come off pretty cry babish... but if you play the game for long enough, often a simple "How about fixing the Amar" for example has a lot of meaning in it and most experianced players know exactly what your talking about. As a newbie it might seem like a random troll, but the reality is that their is a real issue behind that and as a veteran player myself a person doesn't need to say a whole lot more. I know what the issues are, he doesn't need to explain it to me and I'm glad that people continue to complain about it on the forum as a constant reminder that hey "This is still F'ed up!".

In more recent days however the issues in Eve have become rather outragous. I suggest listening to this podcast here at Eve radio which includes conversations with CSM members, former Eve Employees and knowledgable players if you want to come to grips with the situation (if your even interested in understanding why the community is upset and protesting).Eve Radio Podcast

My point here is that, while I understand a new player might be a bit confused about where all this complaining is coming from and exactly why people are in arms over it, as a new player I strongly suggest at least giving the community enough courtesy to find out why everyone is ****ed. Yes your right, it does come off a bit imature, but thats what happens when a diplomatic conversation turns into a fist fight and right now the community and CCP are definitly no longer diplomatic.. its a fist fight and things are ugly, but that doesn't mean their isn't a good reason for it, because frankly while I try to be constructive and participate in the discussion with some level of respect and calm deamenor, after learning all the facts I can completetly understand why people are ****ed and why they are spamming the forum with their outrage.

To put it bluntly, CCP brought it on themselves and they have some explaining to do.


LittleTerror
Day Unhappy Security Inc.
Posted - 2011.08.10 14:26:00 - [46]
 

Originally by: jackaloped
Another "everyone who thinks incarna sucks is wrong" thread.
+stuff





I actually like the whole walking in stations stuff, I think that is really cool and I hope one day I can actually board someones ships to either greet them or kill them in first person combat. However I really dislike CCP's introduction of more micro transactions, that's what ****es me off because the way I see it going is it will become a game for the rich ****s. Like just wait till they start offering skill remaps for a plex and I reckon that will happen soon. So just because someone has more money than me they can skill faster than me Rolling Eyes

Alissa Solette
Posted - 2011.08.10 14:31:00 - [47]
 

Originally by: Othran
Why would anyone care what a character bought one month ago and with no clue about the game thinks? Neutral


^this.

GB2ebay

Thornat
Posted - 2011.08.10 14:34:00 - [48]
 

Originally by: LittleTerror
Originally by: jackaloped
Another "everyone who thinks incarna sucks is wrong" thread.
+stuff





I actually like the whole walking in stations stuff, I think that is really cool and I hope one day I can actually board someones ships to either greet them or kill them in first person combat. However I really dislike CCP's introduction of more micro transactions, that's what ****es me off because the way I see it going is it will become a game for the rich ****s. Like just wait till they start offering skill remaps for a plex and I reckon that will happen soon. So just because someone has more money than me they can skill faster than me Rolling Eyes


+1 on that

I'm in the same boat. I personally love the in station stuff, at least conceptually and Im glad they are persuing it. Ya the current version and situation surrounding it is a bit confusing. I mean ok do it, but release the **** when its actually done and does something. Right now its just a massive resource hog and while I'm very pretty and the room is very cool, it serves no purpose. Conceptually though I love it and I'm looking forward to the day its all in working order with the station walking around stuff. It adds a lot of badly needed atmosphere and social potential and call me a nerd but I play as much for the killing as I do for the people I me and friends I make in Eve.

As for the whole Plex, transaction, store thing.. I just have to say that as a Vanity store I'm find with it, but you start selling skill points, revamps, items you can't get in game and anything else that gives players with money an advantage.. well.. it would be severly disapointing to see CCP sell out like that and it would have very unfortunate effects on Eve Online.

Lu'Marat
Posted - 2011.08.10 14:36:00 - [49]
 

Edited by: Lu''Marat on 10/08/2011 14:41:07
Originally by: Tippia

Trust me, if I troll, you'll know it… Twisted Evil

In this case, though, I'm simply calling the OP out on his trolling.


Actually, Tippia, let me disagree with you here for a moment.

What it comes down to with you is that you typically lace your actual arguments with just enough patronizing arrogance to ensure that whoever you are talking to is eventually goaded into shallow arguments and descends into arguing minor points and semantics rather than their core issue. And while I do applaud you for your high level of performance with this, it remains beyond doubt that trolling comes in a wide variety of shades and you, lady, are well included in that ballpark.

So, you are not a troll because you disagree with the OP, you are a troll because you are being an a** about it.

@OP: In my opinion, the general forum does not so much exist as a catch-all for topics that didn't quite fit the other forums, but more as a place where everybody stops by regardless of interests and which thus serves as a catch-all for those people who are just here for the bull****, rather than actual debate. Because obviously, that's not so funny in a forum where only those people are around who care about the topic at hand.

And just to back up your argument a little:
There is a huge distinction between 1) people who want to address an issue, back up their argument with facts, throw in some suggestions for improvement, and are willing to consider differing opinions, and between 2) people who keep filling thread after thread with snide remarks, bitter sarcasm and just general disrespect. Now I don't think anyone has a problem with 1), but sadly ever since Incarna we have been having a nauseating abundance of 2) and a near-absence of 1). I do think it is getting a lot better lately, though. Maybe it really does get old after a while. Hang in there, buddy.

Oh and,
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Miss Rabblt
Originally by: Tippia
Quote:
in fact you're the one creating the unhappiness
That is not a fact, no.
in fact it is.
Ah, so it's always your fault if I punch you in the face.


Haha. We both know that's not the same thing, thank you.

Nova Kira
Ashes Against The Grain
Posted - 2011.08.10 14:52:00 - [50]
 

So the best way to counter these so-called "crythreads" is to make your own crythread. Charming.

Please explain why customers expressing concern about errors, glitches, bugs and broken mechanics in a game that WE pay for is classified as crying.

As it is, hybrids are far and away the worst weapons in the game - they do not compare to the other types at all. This needs to be addressed and fixed, yet CCP didn't even touch on that topic in their latest expansion.

I still encounter Z axis errors and CQ glitches. The Character Recustomization glitching is so bad that I can't recustomize half the time.

We aren't complaining just to complain, we're complaining about legitimate problems in the game that renders such features near-worthless.

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2011.08.10 14:56:00 - [51]
 

Originally by: Lu'Marat
So, you are not a troll because you disagree with the OP, you are a troll because you are being an a** about it.
…but being an ass about it is not what makes a troll — trolling is posting contrarian and infuriating stuff just to get people's hackles up. I take a contrarian position when I feel someone hasn't provided any kind of substance or foundation for their claims (which, granted, infuriates trolls).

What confuses people, I think, is that I occasionally do this when people bring up points where I agree with the fundamental issue, but not with the way it is being presented. Think of it as a kind of "I don't want my point of view to be associated with these silly arguments — please come up with better ones". People tend to assume that just because I question their arguments, I disagree with their point, and then go off and worsen their arguments even further by providing all manners of straw men and ad hominems based on the assumption that I don't agree with the underlying issue…
Quote:
Now I don't think anyone has a problem with 1), but sadly ever since Incarna we have been having a nauseating abundance of 2) and a near-absence of 1).
…and I'd say that a lot of that is caused by CCP not responding to the type-1 posts (whereas type-2 posts occasionally get at least some kind of reaction), and by various white-knighting trolls treating those posts as if they were type 2 to the point where the type-1 posters give up and just go for type-2 because… why bother when the result is the same?
Quote:
Oh and, […] Haha. We both know that's not the same thing, thank you.
The generalisation is much the same: "it's your own fault if you're crying." It's not that they aren't the same thing — they are — it's just that both generalisations are utterly stupid.

Miss Rabblt
Posted - 2011.08.10 14:58:00 - [52]
 

Originally by: Lady Spank
Originally by: Miss Rabblt
Originally by: Tippia
Quote:
in fact you're the one creating the unhappiness
That is not a fact, no.

in fact it is. It is enough to new person to simply visit Eve forums and find that Eve is dieing, everything is broken and people unsub. After this "first experience" no one will even try to login because "game is ****ty".

And what will you do after your problem was solved to return those new people? Nothing.

This is result of you forum warriors work for Eve. Thanks to you!


Wrong once again. This is CCP's doing by making a **** up of their game by filling it with game breaking bugs and badly implemented features.

problem is:
You see most of these problems after spending some time in the game. And 99% of gamers even don't notice about most of a problems forum whiners speak of

So when CCP makes game worse "inside it" you prevent other people to even take a look to the game because of your selfishness. And who does worst job here?

Brenya Perircle
Posted - 2011.08.10 14:59:00 - [53]
 

Edited by: Brenya Perircle on 10/08/2011 14:59:46
Only two pages? Shadowfoot you really need to cry harder.

As they say, mo' tears mo' trolls.

By the way, I thought the mark of a successful MMO was how fast crappy threads like this disappeared from the front page. Not very fast for Eve it seems :)

Cipher Jones
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.08.10 15:07:00 - [54]
 

Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Shadowfoot
As it currently IS. Eve has alot of new players coming every day, they have massive ad campaign on google, and their server logs has shown consistent addition of players- successful game.
Wow. Who's your insider who gave you these logs?

CCP sure is leaking like a sieve these days… Shocked


Its crazy, but if you actually go into the game you can see them. I know, it will take a while for you to digest, that you can log into the game....

Really? Did you seriously ask that question? By insider did you mean "inside" the game? I live in a wormhole and saw several new players when I went to the local hub to sell. Just wow.

jackaloped
Posted - 2011.08.10 15:08:00 - [55]
 

Originally by: Thornat
Originally by: LittleTerror
Originally by: jackaloped
Another "everyone who thinks incarna sucks is wrong" thread.
+stuff





I actually like the whole walking in stations stuff, I think that is really cool and I hope one day I can actually board someones ships to either greet them or kill them in first person combat. However I really dislike CCP's introduction of more micro transactions, that's what ****es me off because the way I see it going is it will become a game for the rich ****s. Like just wait till they start offering skill remaps for a plex and I reckon that will happen soon. So just because someone has more money than me they can skill faster than me Rolling Eyes


+1 on that

I'm in the same boat. I personally love the in station stuff, at least conceptually and Im glad they are persuing it. Ya the current version and situation surrounding it is a bit confusing. I mean ok do it, but release the **** when its actually done and does something. Right now its just a massive resource hog and while I'm very pretty and the room is very cool, it serves no purpose. Conceptually though I love it and I'm looking forward to the day its all in working order with the station walking around stuff. It adds a lot of badly needed atmosphere and social potential and call me a nerd but I play as much for the killing as I do for the people I me and friends I make in Eve......


This I do not understand. You can talk to your friends over comms now. Do you think it will be more "social" when you can talk over comms while looking at a computer avatar instead of a computer spaceship?

The functionality of incarna is to *walk* in stations. We have that. They can put different back drops in for where we walk. They can make it so we see others walking around too. But the gameplay is still double click walking.

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2011.08.10 15:10:00 - [56]
 

Edited by: Tippia on 10/08/2011 15:11:05
Originally by: Cipher Jones
Its crazy, but if you actually go into the game you can see them.
What? The server logs? I think you need to have your client checked because it's doing things it's not supposed to do…
Quote:
Really? Did you seriously ask that question?
Since he used some mythical server logs (that he doesn't have access to unless someone inside CCP was giving them to him) as proof for an increase in new players at a time when the server population has been trending downwards for half a year, yes. I seriously question his sources…

Cipher Jones
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.08.10 15:14:00 - [57]
 

Originally by: Tippia
Edited by: Tippia on 10/08/2011 15:11:05
Originally by: Cipher Jones
Its crazy, but if you actually go into the game you can see them.
What? The server logs? I think you need to have your client checked because it's doing things it's not supposed to do…
Quote:
Really? Did you seriously ask that question?
Since he used some mythical server logs (that he doesn't have access to unless someone inside CCP was giving them to him) as proof for an increase in new players at a time when the server population has been trending downwards for half a year, yes. I seriously question his sources…


You can see the new players. If you don't understand that you are truly quite daft.

Miss Rabblt
Posted - 2011.08.10 15:15:00 - [58]
 

Originally by: Cipher Jones

Its crazy, but if you actually go into the game you can see them. I know, it will take a while for you to digest, that you can log into the game....

Really? Did you seriously ask that question? By insider did you mean "inside" the game? I live in a wormhole and saw several new players when I went to the local hub to sell. Just wow.

well. i don't like it but my corp gets new members almost every day... and most of them are n00bs few days old.....

So i agree with you here. However forum warriors don't login so they don't see new people at all. And when they see new face in forum they name it "dev's alt" Laughing

CARB0N FIBER
Posted - 2011.08.10 15:17:00 - [59]
 

suck my hairy.....................

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2011.08.10 15:23:00 - [60]
 

Edited by: Tippia on 10/08/2011 15:24:49
Originally by: Cipher Jones
You can see the new players.
…but not the server logs, which is what the OP refers to as evidence.
Quote:
If you don't understand that you are truly quite daft.
…but not quite as daft as you are if you don't understand that the claim the OP made was pulled straight out of his ass.
Originally by: Miss Rabblt
And when they see new face in forum they name it "dev's alt" Laughing
…which in this case makes sense, since he claims to be privy to information that is not available to normal players.


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