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Valei Khurelem
Posted - 2011.08.10 16:48:00 - [91]
 

Originally by: JitaPriceChecker2
Edited by: JitaPriceChecker2 on 10/08/2011 12:03:32
Anyone having balls to fly hulk in no local environment not only deserves to have access to ABC ores but he should have hes reward actually doubled


+1

The only reason that CSM wants to nerf wormholes is because they can't gank these miners easily enough and are crying about it.

Bane Necran
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.08.10 16:51:00 - [92]
 

Has anyone ever seen a goon in a WH?

Cipher Jones
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.08.10 16:52:00 - [93]
 

Quote:
What would it take for you to mine in 0.0? Why would you like to do it and why wouldn't you? What would be your long term objectives?


CCP put in SOV mechanics in nullsec, making nullsec "worth it" to only 2 groups of players; those claiming SOV and those roaming the unpopulated area for a quick buck.

Roaming nullsec in hulks for a quick buck is not profitable, and helps industry in nullsec exactly zero as the ore will be sold in Jita.


Valei Khurelem
Posted - 2011.08.10 16:52:00 - [94]
 

Edited by: Valei Khurelem on 10/08/2011 16:53:08
Originally by: Bane Necran
Has anyone ever seen a goon in a WH?


Sadly the only experience I had with wormholes was scanning and finding one in high sec, then when I jumped through I found out that my entrance would go away in a few days so I couldn't tell you :(

I think it's worth it if you're in a small or medium sized corp, but otherwise I don't think it's as profitable as these guys are making it out to be if people really are soloing these wormholes then they're just being stupid and should get their acts together and find out where they are.

Asuri Kinnes
Caldari
Adhocracy Incorporated
Posted - 2011.08.10 17:00:00 - [95]
 

Edited by: Asuri Kinnes on 10/08/2011 17:05:57
Originally by: Cang Zar
Hurf Durf

I sincerly hope your talking about mittens. Meissa is in Rooks and Kings, a WH living corp, I believe . . .

I think he/she/it/whatever has a clue about WH mechanics. So, on the *off* chance your not talking about mittens I would say "do your ****ing homework". If you are talking about mittens I would say "carry on..." Laughing
Originally by: Ya Huei
Granted, yes a real player will have to provide the bookmarks, but aside from that I'm guessing that bots probably also know how to warp to a POS or something when local spikes? So "warp to bookmark" is probably already among the botters arsenal of tricks.

/facepalm...

There is *no* local in WH space... None...

For all those saying you can hit D-scan and know who's inbound, I'm pretty sure that's a freaking pipe dream. Covert-ops jumps in, cloaks up. D-Scans then looks at system map. Using *just the d-scan*, get a general idea of angle distance to ship sigs. Warp to out of d-scan range of wherever you find *generic hi-sec miners...*, drop probes. Set to 1/2 au range, scan, warp in, provide warpin to your cloaky m8's sitting on the other side of the entrance wh. Miners have about 10 seconds warning before they start popping.... It's happened to us, and we've done it to others. Usually what we find are groups running sleeper sites...

Hell, when I was in The Bastards (Oi m8's! YARRRR!! ), we had several people who could scan you down so fast it seemed like magic. And thats *with* local...

Supposedly there is some data that CCP mentioned about the amount of minerals coming out of WH's.

I would like to see this data.

After having lived in a WH off and on since they came out, I find my experience difficult to reconcile with the stated evidence... I would *especially* like to see the different zones compared. Hi-Sec minerals, low-sec, 0.0 (with the sub catagory - Drone Regions) and Wormholes.

Gonna edit in a couple more comments - I *do* have a couple bones to pick with Meissa!
EDIT:
Originally by: Amsterdam Conversations
Then why would you mine in a WH? If 0.0 mining is so much better, why would you live in a WH over the ore? Or is there something I'm missing? Or maybe something you forgot to tell?

I dunno which way your coming from, but from my experience, *lots* of people live in WH's because of the independence to do exactly wtf you want, when you want. And for better or worse, Null-Sec has a reputation of being populated by elitist ass-hats, but is probably no more true than "hi-sec is nothing but care-bears..."



Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2011.08.10 17:07:00 - [96]
 

Originally by: Prince Kobol
Here is a quote from our beloved CSM Leader regarding the removal of ABC ores from WH

"I'll go ahead and like jump on this grenade cause theres a bunch of angry wormholers who are all ****ed off about it I don't give a ****. Basicly its stupid that you can mine Arkanor 2 jumps from Jita through a wormhole and low risk in my opinion. Uh, on the other hand, you should probably stop panicing because I think in the sucking chest wounds of EVE Online, uh, ABCs in wormholes are stupid for um class 1 through class 4. Class 5 and 6 is fine cause they're going to be more removed from empire. I think its dumb that you can have some guy in a hulk from Jita pop in with relatively low risk into a C1 whatever and get ABC, when ABC is typically something, uh, reserved for extremely dangerous space far from empire. Uh, and we think that its important to make mining a valuable uh profession again particularly with high end ores because their prices crash. I started out mining as a newbie in Syndicate uh getting Crokite and we would all have big mining ops together. Nobody bothers with it anymore except for bots because the prices crash so much. Um, but yeah, I think its dumb that theres ABCs in wormholes, but its not the first order of business on my political agenda. I'm a little bit more focused on things like supercap balance... So don't worry your pretty little heads."

This was taken from the Fire Side chat.

Isn't it great that the current CSM Chairman doesn't have a clue and that CCP are actually listening to this Personal attack removed - Fallout.

I'm not sure who is worse, the fool or the fool who follows him.


Thanks for being the first to bring this to our attention, immediately after it has happened.

Malkev
Posted - 2011.08.10 17:08:00 - [97]
 

Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel
Risk is comparatively lower simply by virtue of being harder to find. Also, your being at a site in space rather than at a belt means you have more time to notice people scanning you down. As opposed to 0.0 where one can simply warp to your belt and kill you.

You must suck at combat probing. I can get probes on top of a target just long enough to get my 100% hit and then have them gone just as fast.

Lazy on d-scan? Sucks to be you.

The instant intel provided by the local channel means absolute safety; I honestly don't see how you could get popped if you're paying attention.

You act like you don't have time to safe up when a neut shows up, as if all the belts are within d-scan range and there is a big sign that tells them where to warp to find your mining op.


Gibsie
Posted - 2011.08.10 17:09:00 - [98]
 

Quote:
When/if the C1->C4 ABC mining gets nerfed, if the situation overall is not better for miners, I'll accept being bashed and blamed for it but as it is I truly believe the plan we're working on with CCP is for the best for the industrialists.


Archived.
Twisted Evil

Trainwreck McGee
Posted - 2011.08.10 17:09:00 - [99]
 

I am just really glad that CCP doesn't give a **** what CSM says

They seem to be even dumber than CCP

And yes of coarse i mine in a C2 WH...i wouldn't have said the above otherwise.

Asuri Kinnes
Caldari
Adhocracy Incorporated
Posted - 2011.08.10 17:21:00 - [100]
 

Edited by: Asuri Kinnes on 10/08/2011 17:22:25
Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel
Also, most of 0.0 does *NOT* have ABC.
I was under the impression that with industry upgrades they *could* have it. Am I wrong? If so, and ABC's are removed from low-level WH's to "buff" 0.0, what is to stop 0.0 alliances from adding the industry upgrades, and crashing the market back down?

One way there is more interaction between groups (wh mining) and less interaction (mining in sovereign null-sec) {imho}.

Originally by: Prince Kobol
Here is a quote from our beloved CSM Leader regarding the removal of ABC ores from WH

Way to be late to the party, by the way, by about 3 weeks? Good Job!



Windjammer
Gallente
Posted - 2011.08.10 17:38:00 - [101]
 

I wouldn’t worry too much about what Mitts says. He’s just unhappy with how little say he has in things and is just trying to get under your skin. He’s more accustomed to having cheerleaders and sheep than folk who openly disagree with him.

Why do you even care about these “fire side chats”? It isn’t as if CCP actually believes the CSM is representing anything but the interests in K-space null sec or in the case of Mitts and company, the interests of goonies. To Mitts credit, he’s real open and honest about that.

CCP knows the majority of EVE players are not represented and although they may not vote in the CSM elections, they will vote with subscriptions. After all, CCP is currently feeling the weight of that vote. Make EVE all about null sec and the rest of EVE says, “no problem, I can do something else”. It’s not a life, it’s a game………….and all too easy to leave.

-Windjammer

Aus Man Industries
Posted - 2011.08.10 17:42:00 - [102]
 

You know I kind of agree with him...
But then why would someone mine in a wh at all.

Also why not grab a lvl 2 wh with a static empire entrance and a 5-6wh attached...one more jump, bit more risk...sounds right to me.

I dislike goons but mittens is doing just fine.

Asuri Kinnes
Caldari
Adhocracy Incorporated
Posted - 2011.08.10 17:44:00 - [103]
 

Originally by: Windjammer
Why do you even care about these “fire side chats”?


Because as Meissa said, apparently the whole ABC's in WH's conversation came about because of some (supposed) data that CCP have about ABC's coming out of WH's and the CSM can't comment on.

It just bugs the **** out of me that we don't get a new QEN, and apparently can't be trusted with the data. Evil or Very Mad



J Kunjeh
Gallente
Posted - 2011.08.10 17:50:00 - [104]
 

Originally by: Ladie Scarlet
Mittens should be Chairman For Life.


That would be the 10th circle of hell. Evil or Very Mad

Soi Mala
Whacky Waving Inflatable Flailing Arm Tubemen
Posted - 2011.08.10 17:50:00 - [105]
 

Originally by: Asuri Kinnes
Wormholes: The *NEW* end game of Eve - Online:
No Local. No Lag. No Blues (No Intell Channesl). No Blobs.

NEW FEATURE: NO INCARNA!



Best sig ever.


Jita mcheck
Posted - 2011.08.10 18:02:00 - [106]
 

I agree with mittens.

But it is a minior issue.

From personal experiance I was based out of a class 2 worm hole with a static level 5 entrance. Had a Pos all set up(brought in through the class 5) so was safe(very few dreads or bs fleets roam level 2's.) Could mine all day and move stuff in and out. big stuff out through the c5, small daily stuff directly to empire. every day i could move ore in and out. some times right into trade hubs(got amar a bunch of times).

If i had to mine in the c6 it would be a bit harder. As it should be, in 0.0 solo minning is a pain due to rats as well as pvp. Right now in blood raider space those rats just suck!

Sorry but mittens is correct in his summary of this issue.

Windjammer
Gallente
Posted - 2011.08.10 18:08:00 - [107]
 

Originally by: Asuri Kinnes
Originally by: Windjammer
Why do you even care about these “fire side chats”?


Because as Meissa said, apparently the whole ABC's in WH's conversation came about because of some (supposed) data that CCP have about ABC's coming out of WH's and the CSM can't comment on.

It just bugs the **** out of me that we don't get a new QEN, and apparently can't be trusted with the data. Evil or Very Mad



If that were the case, then why is CCP Zulu quoted as saying he’s going to “look into it”? Like it’s something that’s just come to his attention and he needs more data on. Why are the people on the CSM who have knowledge of WH space disagreeing with the notion of removing ABC ores from WH space until such a time as data is gathered on the situation? Whatever data there was, if there was, was sketchy at best and this whole “we can’t talk about it, but we know better than you do” is a load.

People who know WH’s are convinced removing ABC ores from lower class WH’s is a silly idea. People who don’t know WH’s are supporting removal because they don’t know any better and worry that it might be affecting their own corner of the game.

The only data we “can’t be trusted with” is the data showing subscription numbers. Class? Can anyone tell me why CCP might not be eager to share that information?

-Windjammer

Grey Stormshadow
Starwreck Industries
Posted - 2011.08.10 18:09:00 - [108]
 

Originally by: Jita mcheck
I agree with mittens.

But it is a minior issue.

From personal experiance I was based out of a class 2 worm hole with a static level 5 entrance. Had a Pos all set up(brought in through the class 5) so was safe(very few dreads or bs fleets roam level 2's.) Could mine all day and move stuff in and out. big stuff out through the c5, small daily stuff directly to empire. every day i could move ore in and out. some times right into trade hubs(got amar a bunch of times).

If i had to mine in the c6 it would be a bit harder. As it should be, in 0.0 solo minning is a pain due to rats as well as pvp. Right now in blood raider space those rats just suck!

Sorry but mittens is correct in his summary of this issue.


Great reply from jita alt. Post is so detailed that it has to be true.

Sigeric
Posted - 2011.08.10 18:18:00 - [109]
 

Edited by: Sigeric on 17/08/2011 00:55:59
You can't fit a hulk into a C1 wormhole it seems

Valari Nala Zena
Caldari
Perkone
Posted - 2011.08.10 18:26:00 - [110]
 

Next on the agenda, moving all belts to lowsec and nullsec.

Asuri Kinnes
Caldari
Adhocracy Incorporated
Posted - 2011.08.10 18:33:00 - [111]
 

Originally by: Windjammer
Originally by: Asuri Kinnes

Because as Meissa said, apparently the whole ABC's in WH's conversation came about because of some (supposed) data that CCP have about ABC's coming out of WH's and the CSM can't comment on.

It just bugs the **** out of me that we don't get a new QEN, and apparently can't be trusted with the data. Evil or Very Mad



If that were the case, then why is CCP Zulu quoted as saying he’s going to “look into it”? Like it’s something that’s just come to his attention and he needs more data on. Why are the people on the CSM who have knowledge of WH space disagreeing with the notion of removing ABC ores from WH space until such a time as data is gathered on the situation? Whatever data there was, if there was, was sketchy at best and this whole “we can’t talk about it, but we know better than you do” is a load.

People who know WH’s are convinced removing ABC ores from lower class WH’s is a silly idea. People who don’t know WH’s are supporting removal because they don’t know any better and worry that it might be affecting their own corner of the game.

The only data we “can’t be trusted with” is the data showing subscription numbers. Class? Can anyone tell me why CCP might not be eager to share that information?
-Windjammer

#1 - (just fyi) - I've lived in a WH since they came out (off and on) and my current corp has lived there since they came out - we have a clue about WH's. (because you made it sound as if *I* didn't have a clue - if that wasn't your intent, apologies...)

#2 - Either Meissa or Trebor (maybe even mittens - I don't recall) said that (i guess during the whole 0.0 industry discussion) - they were presented with some data on ABC's coming out of WH's... Which is back where this all started.

If Meissa or Trebor could corroborate for me?



Manssell
Posted - 2011.08.10 18:37:00 - [112]
 

It seems the CSM is starting to act just like CCP and now wants to dictate to players their playing style. Like living in a WH? Tough, CSM wants you in 0.0 where they think you belong. Liked spinning your ship? Tough, CCP wants you in your quarters where they think you belong. Will ABC WH minerals be the new ship spinning? Stay tuned, only time will tell.

Ingvar Angst
Amarr
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
Talocan United
Posted - 2011.08.10 18:38:00 - [113]
 

Edited by: Ingvar Angst on 10/08/2011 19:00:46
Originally by: Jita mcheck
I agree with mittens.

But it is a minior issue.

From personal experiance I was based out of a class 2 worm hole with a static level 5 entrance. Had a Pos all set up(brought in through the class 5) so was safe(very few dreads or bs fleets roam level 2's.) Could mine all day and move stuff in and out. big stuff out through the c5, small daily stuff directly to empire. every day i could move ore in and out. some times right into trade hubs(got amar a bunch of times).

If i had to mine in the c6 it would be a bit harder. As it should be, in 0.0 solo minning is a pain due to rats as well as pvp. Right now in blood raider space those rats just suck!

Sorry but mittens is correct in his summary of this issue.


You moved big stuff "out through the C5"? You "mined all day"?

You, sir, are a liar.

BTW, has anyone seen a C2 with a static C5 that didn't have a static Null as the second?

Takamori Maruyama
Amarr
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
Posted - 2011.08.10 18:41:00 - [114]
 

Can someone experienced in WH record a playthrough in the damn WH.
And show if the thing is serious **** or its just a pony playground?
Done you solve all the damn theory and put in practice and teach the new guys what the hell is a WH.

Also wanna solve the problem with Jita?Turn it low sec YARRRR!!

Ingvar Angst
Amarr
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
Talocan United
Posted - 2011.08.10 18:47:00 - [115]
 

Originally by: Takamori Maruyama
Can someone experienced in WH record a playthrough in the damn WH.
And show if the thing is serious **** or its just a pony playground?
Done you solve all the damn theory and put in practice and teach the new guys what the hell is a WH.


Record a playthrough of what? If you live in a hole and want to mine you need to:
1. Scan out your sites and hope you have a grav spawned. You can go weeks without one.
2. Warp to the site to activate it.
3. Wait for the rats to spawn and kill the rats.
4. Start mining, but keep clicking DScan while you do so. If you see someone, RUN! Hopefully it's not too late...

Now, this doesn't take into account trying to minimize your risk by crushing existing holes and having additional people with combats out keeping an eye for unfriendlies, for example, just the most basic aspect of mining that leaves you with a good chance of being popped. Someone else on combats, for example, can provide a little bit of an early warning comparable to local, unless of course there's someone cloaked in your hole alread, in which case you're screwed.

De'Veldrin
Minmatar
Norse'Storm Battle Group
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2011.08.10 18:51:00 - [116]
 

Originally by: Takamori Maruyama


Also wanna solve the problem with Jita?Turn it low sec YARRRR!!


Everytime I see this idea, I burst out laughing. Thank you for my daily dose of LOL.

Takamori Maruyama
Amarr
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
Posted - 2011.08.10 18:53:00 - [117]
 

Just for the sake of ending this ******ed vicious cycle of:
HURR ITS EASY.
HURR ITS HARD.

Show the damn thing and everyone will have something more consistent to discuss about.

Bane Necran
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.08.10 18:56:00 - [118]
 

Originally by: Takamori Maruyama
Show the damn thing and everyone will have something more consistent to discuss about.



Well according to mittani and others they're very easy to find and pose no real risk, so go hop into one yourself and tell us.

You can even take your biggest and most impressive ship, because everyone in WHs are noobs and combat rarely happens. Wink

Takamori Maruyama
Amarr
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
Posted - 2011.08.10 19:00:00 - [119]
 

Well probably if I record something ,manage to get into a wormhole and get ****d in the first 5 min venturing there.
I will receive the answer oh you are a ******ed noob that is no proof.


So showing a veteran venturing the WH, gives more credibility.

Asuri Kinnes
Caldari
Adhocracy Incorporated
Posted - 2011.08.10 19:00:00 - [120]
 

Edited by: Asuri Kinnes on 10/08/2011 19:00:38
One of the things the CSM/CCP is going to have to look at in all this (if they want to "encourage" more industry/farms/fields in Null sec) is that people who build/mine/industry (as a total group - individuals may be different) will want to build/mine/invent/sell in safety. Therefore, unless something RADICAL is done, major market hubs are *always* going to be in hi-sec... vOv Just the way people are. Most don't want the hassles of trying to do all that stuff in 0,0 - at least that's the impression I get...


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