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Prince Kobol
Posted - 2011.08.10 11:10:00 - [1]
 

Here is a quote from our beloved CSM Leader regarding the removal of ABC ores from WH

"I'll go ahead and like jump on this grenade cause theres a bunch of angry wormholers who are all ****ed off about it I don't give a ****. Basicly its stupid that you can mine Arkanor 2 jumps from Jita through a wormhole and low risk in my opinion. Uh, on the other hand, you should probably stop panicing because I think in the sucking chest wounds of EVE Online, uh, ABCs in wormholes are stupid for um class 1 through class 4. Class 5 and 6 is fine cause they're going to be more removed from empire. I think its dumb that you can have some guy in a hulk from Jita pop in with relatively low risk into a C1 whatever and get ABC, when ABC is typically something, uh, reserved for extremely dangerous space far from empire. Uh, and we think that its important to make mining a valuable uh profession again particularly with high end ores because their prices crash. I started out mining as a newbie in Syndicate uh getting Crokite and we would all have big mining ops together. Nobody bothers with it anymore except for bots because the prices crash so much. Um, but yeah, I think its dumb that theres ABCs in wormholes, but its not the first order of business on my political agenda. I'm a little bit more focused on things like supercap balance... So don't worry your pretty little heads."

This was taken from the Fire Side chat.

Isn't it great that the current CSM Chairman doesn't have a clue and that CCP are actually listening to this Personal attack removed - Fallout.

I'm not sure who is worse, the fool or the fool who follows him.

Brooks Puuntai
Minmatar
Nomadic Asylum
Posted - 2011.08.10 11:29:00 - [2]
 

Edited by: Brooks Puuntai on 10/08/2011 11:29:52
He is right to a point. The reason mining sucks even with ABC ores its available in almost any null system(with upgrades) and all WH. Add to the fact that so long as you align and spam directional there really is no risk.

I do think however he did go alittle over board with no ABC in 1-4, when really it should be 1-2 and crokite should start appearing in 3+.


Doimake uhorni
Posted - 2011.08.10 11:30:00 - [3]
 

He is 100% correct

Generals4
Caldari
Posted - 2011.08.10 11:31:00 - [4]
 

How dare those WH dwellers compete with the 0.0 bots!

And having lived in WH's for a while in the past all i can say is that he's clueless.

Jienna Sarain
Posted - 2011.08.10 11:33:00 - [5]
 

What makes it most comical is his complete lack of knowledge of wh mechanics in his comments.

2 years in wh's from a c3 to c5 and not once have we had a wh exit any where near a market hub.

And who in there right mind would jump a hulk into a wh to just mine abc ores randomly??

The logistics and ore compression + hauling are a headache on thier own moving ores out of a wh and we only do it to refine into minerals and ship back in for in wh production of cap ships for wh use. (refinery array is way too much waste)

I really cant see how abc ores are having much of an impact on market prices at all considering the amount of effort and time it takes to get the ore to known space market hubs.

Should try looking at null sec sources of abc ores and see where its all coming from to effect market values.


Bustin Jieber
Posted - 2011.08.10 11:35:00 - [6]
 

He is absolutely correct. The sooner CCP acts on this the better.

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2011.08.10 11:36:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Brooks Puuntai
The reason mining sucks even with ABC ores
…can be condensed into two words: Drone Regions.
Quote:
Add to the fact that so long as you align and spam directional there really is no risk.
…same as in all nullsec.

So why WHs would be any particular problem is quite odd.

Garak Jakobs
Posted - 2011.08.10 11:36:00 - [8]
 

WH space is always -1.0

The lowest of null sec is -1.0

They are both very dangerous places, wormholes even more so because of no local.

0.0 people are beginning to ***** because empire bunnies have an easy way to make alot of isk if you put the time in.

0.0 is alot better for drops and loot from plexs and the like.

CCP have got to start to consider that the majority of its player base is in empire therefore you make those guys happy and keep them happy.


Ladie Scarlet
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.08.10 11:40:00 - [9]
 

Mittens should be Chairman For Life.

Sandra Smith
Posted - 2011.08.10 11:41:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Ladie Scarlet
Mittens should be Chairman For Life.

It already feels like he has been.Very Happy

Ghoest
Posted - 2011.08.10 11:43:00 - [11]
 

And thus our our "elected" 0.0 over lords write the rules of EVE.

Jovan Geldon
Gallente
Lead Farmers
Kill It With Fire
Posted - 2011.08.10 11:45:00 - [12]
 

If the CSM actually mattered I might be more than a little concerned that it consists of pompous blowhards with no knowledge of the game outside their little nullsec circle-jerk extravaganza, known exploiters, and botters.

But it doesn't. So chill the **** out guys.

Barakkus
Posted - 2011.08.10 11:47:00 - [13]
 

I'm failing to see how wormholes are low risk myself...

Brooks Puuntai
Minmatar
Nomadic Asylum
Posted - 2011.08.10 11:52:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Brooks Puuntai
The reason mining sucks even with ABC ores
…can be condensed into two words: Drone Regions.
Quote:
Add to the fact that so long as you align and spam directional there really is no risk.
…same as in all nullsec.

So why WHs would be any particular problem is quite odd.


<3 Tippia

Drone Regions is the same but also was nerfed heavily awhile ago. Though I do think that drones should be overhauled loot wise to reduce/remove alloy drops. Replaced with something else.

WHs(we are talking c1-c2)are different to 0.0 due to the ease of entrance/exit points in WHs. Where you can mine then immediately jump back to high sec with very little risk(dependant on the WH ofc). Where as with 0.0 its a little more complex due to choke points as well as cost of upgrades, defense, and logistics.

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2011.08.10 11:59:00 - [15]
 

Edited by: Tippia on 10/08/2011 12:00:50
Originally by: Brooks Puuntai
WHs(we are talking c1-c2)are different to 0.0 due to the ease of entrance/exit points in WHs. Where you can mine then immediately jump back to high sec with very little risk(dependant on the WH ofc). Where as with 0.0 its a little more complex due to choke points as well as cost of upgrades, defense, and logistics.
…on the other hand, 0.0 still has a crapton of logistical niceties that can't be used in WHs, such as jump bridges, cynos, hell even titan bridging if you really really want that stuff moved. Nullsec can provide a constant and huge flow.

WHs (especially lower-class ones) have massive restrictions on what can be moved in and out of them — limitations that also ensure that you can't create a fixed transport route — and you'll quickly run into limits on how much you can store in that w-space system for future transport out of it. The flow can either be constant or huge (somewhat… until the grav sites decide not to spawn in your system any more), but you really have to struggle to have both happen at once.

Sure, you can find a wormhole, jump your Hulk in and go nuts and then warp out… but at that point, with the time it takes to do all that, you have about as much impact on the high-end mineral economy as an L3 mission-runner (and yes, the risks in doing it with that level of support are quite high as well, but again: the risk arguments falls on its face since it's the same as pretty much all other nullsec). At this point, the flow is neither constant nor huge.

JitaPriceChecker2
Posted - 2011.08.10 12:03:00 - [16]
 

Edited by: JitaPriceChecker2 on 10/08/2011 12:03:32
Anyone having balls to fly hulk in no local environment not only deserves to have access to ABC ores but he should have hes reward actually doubled

Hawkcrest
Posted - 2011.08.10 12:04:00 - [17]
 

Keep in Mind fellas, your 0,0 Overlords once did what you are doing today. We didnt instantly join the game and go to 0,0 and say this space is ours, we started in crap space in high sec mining kernite like the rest of you. We just dicided not to stay carebears, and to play eve to its fullest.

Skunk Gracklaw
Caldari
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.08.10 12:05:00 - [18]
 

Oh wow...I thought fixing ABC ores in wormholes was coming *after* we moved all L4 missions to lowsec. Guess I missed the memo on the schedule change.

Caldari Citizen20090217
Posted - 2011.08.10 12:11:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Brooks Puuntai
The reason mining sucks even with ABC ores
…can be condensed into two words: Drone Regions.
Quote:
Add to the fact that so long as you align and spam directional there really is no risk.
…same as in all nullsec.

So why WHs would be any particular problem is quite odd.


This.

wh space:
*no local
*shifting exits
*lower refine amounts
*high risk, inefficient logistics
*dscan every 2 secs
*no intel channels (deep blue 0.0 is the safest space there is)

0.0:
*local
*intel channels
*nearly 100% refine
*jump freighters/bridges etc - easymode low risk logistics
*so easy a machine can do it

tbh nerf ABC in 0.0.

Medidranda Livoga
Posted - 2011.08.10 12:14:00 - [20]
 

No risk? Mittani is normally quite reasonable but in this case he is totally wrong. Low-end wormholes are the riskiest (lots of traffic) and you can get caught by a recon any second.

Bustin Jieber
Posted - 2011.08.10 12:23:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Medidranda Livoga
Mittani is normally quite reasonable but in this case he is totally wrong.


Nope he is 100% correct.

Efraya
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.08.10 12:29:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Caldari Citizen20090217
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Brooks Puuntai
The reason mining sucks even with ABC ores
…can be condensed into two words: Drone Regions.
Quote:
Add to the fact that so long as you align and spam directional there really is no risk.
…same as in all nullsec.

So why WHs would be any particular problem is quite odd.


This.

wh space:
*no local
*shifting exits
*lower refine amounts
*high risk, inefficient logistics
*dscan every 2 secs
*no intel channels (deep blue 0.0 is the safest space there is)

0.0:
*local
*intel channels
*nearly 100% refine
*jump freighters/bridges etc - easymode low risk logistics
*so easy a machine can do it

tbh nerf ABC in 0.0.


+1

Amsterdam Conversations
Posted - 2011.08.10 12:34:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Caldari Citizen20090217
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Brooks Puuntai
The reason mining sucks even with ABC ores
…can be condensed into two words: Drone Regions.
Quote:
Add to the fact that so long as you align and spam directional there really is no risk.
…same as in all nullsec.

So why WHs would be any particular problem is quite odd.


This.

wh space:
*no local
*shifting exits
*lower refine amounts
*high risk, inefficient logistics
*dscan every 2 secs
*no intel channels (deep blue 0.0 is the safest space there is)

0.0:
*local
*intel channels
*nearly 100% refine
*jump freighters/bridges etc - easymode low risk logistics
*so easy a machine can do it

tbh nerf ABC in 0.0.


Then why would you mine in a WH?

If 0.0 mining is so much better, why would you live in a WH over the ore?

Or is there something I'm missing? Or maybe something you forgot to tell?

Medidranda Livoga
Posted - 2011.08.10 12:44:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Bustin Jieber
Originally by: Medidranda Livoga
Mittani is normally quite reasonable but in this case he is totally wrong.


Nope he is 100% correct.


No.

Yin Utada
Posted - 2011.08.10 12:45:00 - [25]
 

Does anyone have that Mittani Bee image?

Cang Zar
Posted - 2011.08.10 12:46:00 - [26]
 

Edited by: Cang Zar on 10/08/2011 12:57:27
Edited by: Cang Zar on 10/08/2011 12:47:31
I wouldnt have thought it, but Mittani actually makes a really good CSM chairman. It seems like he knows how to get CCP to take **** seriously and get them to commit and do stuff the right way.

However, it's quite tragic to see someone actually thinking he knows what he is talking about, when he obviously (to anyone who has actually lived in a wormhole) does not have a clue. I've lived in BOTH 0.0 and Wormhole space and I'm currently living in 0.0, and wormhole space is way more dangerous for your personal safety than 0.0 (unless you're actively going into a hostile alliance territory to mine, which is a ridiculous premise).

The main reason for this, being no local channel and having no way to strategically defend your "space" because the entrances change all the time, but in regards to where they are but also to where they lead. In WH space, you literally could (at any time) be attacked by any group of people, who you couldnt possibly have know would be there, no matter what you did to prevent it. Navigation is also vastly more complex and generally living in a wormhole requires alot more dedication on an individual level, than being a random member of an 0.0 alliance does.

I'm having a hard time understanding why this isnt obvious to (otherwise) clearly knowledgeable people like Mittani.

IF minerals were to be distributed by "dangerousness of mining them", ABCs should definitely be in WH-space, before 0.0. I really hope CCP actually talks to someone who knows the ins and outs on wormholing, before going through with something like this. They really shouldnt make changes based on what the big 0.0 alliances think they know about it.

Originally by: Amsterdam Conversations

Then why would you mine in a WH?

If 0.0 mining is so much better, why would you live in a WH over the ore?

Or is there something I'm missing? Or maybe something you forgot to tell?


Because the ISK is good, despite the risks? Why else? Not everyone wants to join a 0.0 alliance and do boring blob warfare but that has nothing to do with how dangerous/not-dangerous it is. Being in a wormhole as opposed to 0.0 is about different playstyles not about dangerousness (but if you have to judge between the two, WH space is clearly more dangerous on a personal level, where alliances who commited billions and billions of isk to space-structures are clearly more at risk in 0.0).

It's almost hilariously stupid though, to think that mining in WH space is more safe than 0.0, it quite simply isnt.

Nieero
Posted - 2011.08.10 12:53:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Brooks Puuntai
The reason mining sucks even with ABC ores
…can be condensed into two words: Drone Regions.

very true! just check the turnover of Plush and Glossy Compound in Jita. Not even considering the share of compounds that are not being exported to highsec...

Even if a noticable amount of high ends would come from wormhole day trippers, it's still the most risky profession you can choose for a reward of maybe ~40m/h. Infact every other nullsec activity I can think of earns more with less risk!

Khaed Duhn
Minmatar
The Kairos Syndicate
Posted - 2011.08.10 12:53:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Amsterdam Conversations

Then why would you mine in a WH?

If 0.0 mining is so much better, why would you live in a WH over the ore?

Or is there something I'm missing? Or maybe something you forgot to tell?


To support local manufacturing needs, ammo and the such.

Rhinanna
Minmatar
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2011.08.10 12:56:00 - [29]
 

Having done a bit of both WHs and quite a lot of Null-sec, the only part of null-sec that is as dangerous as WH space is almost certainly NPC owned null-sec....

I mean, if you are in the middle of alliance owned space, there is practically nothing to worry about mining. A red comes in system, warp to POS, safe. If you are awake and been careful you are practically 100% safe in Null. In WHs, you don't even know they are in system until you see them on scan.

Seriously mittani needs to either provide some evidence to back up his claim that null-sec is more dangerous or he needs to try mining in WHs himself because he clearly has no idea at the moment.

Medidranda Livoga
Posted - 2011.08.10 13:02:00 - [30]
 

Edited by: Medidranda Livoga on 10/08/2011 13:02:29
You will actually be out of the field BEFORE the enemy is in system if you have decent intel channels. This is a vast improvement of security. Addionally you have the safety of local channel which will show up instantly that hostile is in system if someone did slip through intel channel security. This also allows you to... automate your operations. Laughing


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