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Acrior
Posted - 2011.08.09 23:17:00 - [61]
 

Originally by: Generals4


That doesn't make them third class citizens. It makes them good EVE players. Doing what they want and what they're supposed to.

Why should someone force himself, against his will, to do things not even demanded from him for the service provided to him?

I didn't know in EVE you had to do charity to be a 1st class citizen.



I didn't say it wasn't smart. Just that the ALLIANCE treats THEM as third-class citizens because they don't mean much to the ALLIANCE.

Ghoest
Posted - 2011.08.09 23:19:00 - [62]
 

Originally by: Acrior
Originally by: Ghoest
Originally by: Lady Spank


A lot of renters think they are buying the right to PVE in peace with a personal army on hand to squish any threats and will become petulant when asked to do anything else because ~ WE HAVE PAID OUR MONEY NOW LEAVE US ALONE ~


Renters should think that. they are paying RENT.

Ok get this. Scenario: I rent an apartment as a student in America (actually European but w/e). The Brits come to settle the whole civil war thing. They wreck my apartment.

Who do you think the landlord is gonna be ****ed at. Hint: not the redcoats.



Umm fail analogy.

If youre renting space and someone comes and kills you - well of course you should have defended yourself.

But if you are renting and the land lord comes up and says " all renters have to join my private army and go on patrols" - umm no, thats not what renting is about.

Ranka Mei
Caldari
Posted - 2011.08.09 23:26:00 - [63]
 

Edited by: Ranka Mei on 09/08/2011 23:28:52

It's amazing again how much fail this thread contains! Do any of you even have basic understanding of economics? To find out, answer yourself the following questions. Are you a useless scrub for renting a car? Are you employed in a loser company because they, god forbid, rent office space? Is your CEO a moron because he hires security personnel? Are you a mindless dufus who can't hold his own because you occassionally rent that big lawn mower?

... Or, could it be that renting stuff, whether it be space, or security services, or POS time, or whatever, is no more than an acknowledgement of a most basic economic principle that single individuals aren't a Jack of trades at everything?

You folks are most amusing, really. :) It's like watching a bunch of 12-year-olds tumbling over each other, each more eager than the other to show what a great, bad-ass PvP-er they are. Meanwhile flying around in ships someone else built, taking ammo from a rented corp hangar, etc.

I mean, seriously, is it so difficult to grasp for you that not every small corp can match a big 0.0 Alliance in strength, and that they therefore will need to rent space from someone bigger who can hold Sovereignty for them? Or do you honestly suggest they just fly their puny ships right into a super Alliance supercap fleet, just to show 'em?

So, it's very simple: as a small corp, if you want to have access to the yard where the big boys play, you either try and fight them in vain, or you simply rent whatever you need and have to offer (like juicy belt rats, mining spots). I see nothing wrong with that. It's like a foreign company who wants to do business at a prime spot in Manhattan: instead of fighting the USA over its location (which would be ludicrous, of course), they simply rent office space there -- at a premium price, no doubt. So what?

MatrixSkye Mk2
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.08.09 23:33:00 - [64]
 

Originally by: Quebber
Why are renters classed as 3rd class?
Because to some if you don't play the way they play then you're doing it wrong.

They'll call you a coward while they profess their bravery and toughness because they bring pixalated spaceships to pixelated battles. Meh, just ignore them.


Lady Spank
Amarr
In Praise Of Shadows
Posted - 2011.08.09 23:39:00 - [65]
 

Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2
Originally by: Quebber
Why are renters classed as 3rd class?
Because to some if you don't play the way they play then you're doing it wrong.

They'll call you a coward while they profess their bravery and toughness because they bring pixalated spaceships to pixelated battles. Meh, just ignore them.




Coward alt poster talking about bravery.

Razin
The xDEATHx Squadron
Legion of xXDEATHXx
Posted - 2011.08.09 23:43:00 - [66]
 

Originally by: Lady Spank
Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2
Originally by: Quebber
Why are renters classed as 3rd class?
Because to some if you don't play the way they play then you're doing it wrong.

They'll call you a coward while they profess their bravery and toughness because they bring pixalated spaceships to pixelated battles. Meh, just ignore them.




Coward alt poster talking about bravery.
He's also deathly afraid of afk cloakers.

MatrixSkye Mk2
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.08.09 23:45:00 - [67]
 

Originally by: Lady Spank
Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2
Originally by: Quebber
Why are renters classed as 3rd class?
Because to some if you don't play the way they play then you're doing it wrong.

They'll call you a coward while they profess their bravery and toughness because they bring pixalated spaceships to pixelated battles. Meh, just ignore them.




Coward alt poster talking about bravery.
My post flew right past you.


moskowitz
Minmatar
Pator Tech School
Posted - 2011.08.10 01:34:00 - [68]
 

interesting post!

I am a carebear mostly...I have been in 0.0 with limited pvp experience..I have never rented...I like to make and sell things. I always find it interesting how hardcore pvpers hate carebears.

Why?

if they are both doing what makes them enjoy the game experience...wth

do pvpers feel superior to carebears? maybe so...they have better pvp skills....they do more of it.

i am gathering renter to most 0.0=a carebear that lives in 0.0

i think it boils down to a superiority complex pvpers have over industrialists, traders, renters ...anyone that is not a hardcore pvper.

i think if carebears wanted to take over a part of 0.0 they could do it.

it would be funny to see large numbers of isk rich alts take over some of 0.0.

sure they would probably struggle with poor pvp skills...but they are industrialists and traders...they can likely afford losses and have stacks of equipment and ships to keep it going.

I would volunteer 2 alts (with unlimited supply of ships/ammo)to anyone that wants to engage in such an affair.

and if anyone wants to collaborate in a long term commitment with the production of capital ships for support..I'd be down for that too.

"UNite the carebears" prove we are average at PVP!!


Lady Spank
Amarr
In Praise Of Shadows
Posted - 2011.08.10 01:44:00 - [69]
 

Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2
Originally by: Lady Spank
Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2
Originally by: Quebber
Why are renters classed as 3rd class?
Because to some if you don't play the way they play then you're doing it wrong.

They'll call you a coward while they profess their bravery and toughness because they bring pixalated spaceships to pixelated battles. Meh, just ignore them.




Coward alt poster talking about bravery.
My post flew right past you.




Not really no. You continually try to antagonise people and act like a smartarse but are too scared to stand by your claims with any degree of accountability. An irrelevant coward alt is all you are. Why don't you biomass a second time just to prove how everyone else is oh so serious about internet space pixels and you aren't. GTFO

moskowitz
Minmatar
Pator Tech School
Posted - 2011.08.10 01:55:00 - [70]
 

superiority complex comfirmed.

Thur Barbek
Posted - 2011.08.10 01:56:00 - [71]
 

Originally by: moskowitz


i think if carebears wanted to take over a part of 0.0 they could do it.

it would be funny to see large numbers of isk rich alts take over some of 0.0.




Hardcore pvpers always forget who enables them. If the local care bears who supply the market decided to quit, the pvpers would be pvping in noob ships. Easiest way to take control of a region is simply control the local market.

Valari Nala Zena
Caldari
Perkone
Posted - 2011.08.10 02:10:00 - [72]
 

Originally by: Thur Barbek
Originally by: moskowitz


i think if carebears wanted to take over a part of 0.0 they could do it.

it would be funny to see large numbers of isk rich alts take over some of 0.0.




Hardcore pvpers always forget who enables them. If the local care bears who supply the market decided to quit, the pvpers would be pvping in noob ships. Easiest way to take control of a region is simply control the local market.


In nullsec as a PvP'er you can live without industrials/carebears just fine.

I've been living in a lot of places in nullsec, i never had to rely on the market at all, had my own capitals bring stuff back from empire when i needed something.

PvP is all what matters if you want to own space/stations in nullsec, on a larger scale it's all about who has the biggest super capital blob.

moskowitz
Minmatar
Pator Tech School
Posted - 2011.08.10 02:30:00 - [73]
 

Edited by: moskowitz on 10/08/2011 02:38:00
yea agree...i've lived there...we can't shutdown there play from hi sec.

we need to be like "carebear locusts" with lots of supplies to make bigger supercap fleets.

i have a dream.

Who's with me?...we can call it carebearaggedon

Syberbolt8
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2011.08.10 02:40:00 - [74]
 

I am in a renter alliance, we are weak, and fail at pvp so we had to rent our way into 0.0.

Check my killboard, I don't have any kills worth wild and am in fact a 0.0 carebear.

On to the point of the renter alliance being useful in fleet battles, we are good meat shields as long as you treat us as such. Its all about expectations, if you expect a lot out of a bunch of renters your fail.

If you realize renters don't really want to fight, or they only want to get their feet wet, then a renter alliance is a good place to start were as other alliances wont give them a chance in hell to join a major sov alliance. It can play a starting point. Not that it normally does, but hey, we pay them for our space and make in the range of 50 to 100 times what we are paying as a corp, so its win/win they get use of the space as its easy isk for them, and we get good space to abuse.

Now are we joining up and fighting? some of our members are, but we wont be making a major difference.

Are we 2nd class, sure, we don't have to support huge areas of space at all. We don't have to be 0.0 space diplomats, Just pay the bills and we are good to go. And if someone invades then we run away or stick around to see if we lose our space. That's part of renting.

Babyfarts Mcdougan
Posted - 2011.08.10 02:40:00 - [75]
 

PvPer rage about carebears but most have at least one industry/mission alt to subsidize their fighting. Don't take it too seriously. That being said, if you're renting in null and don't join in on the occasional roam with neighboring corps, you're doing yourself a disservice, and not taking advantage of everything you're paying for with that rent. And if you are renting from a russian based alliance, you renters should be working towards your own protection, cuz they sure as hell ain't back ya up.

MatrixSkye Mk2
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.08.10 02:49:00 - [76]
 

Originally by: Lady Spank
Not really no. You continually try to antagonise people and act like a smartarse but are too scared to stand by your claims with any degree of accountability. An irrelevant coward alt is all you are. Why don't you biomass a second time just to prove how everyone else is oh so serious about internet space pixels and you aren't. GTFO

You're right. I hear the marine corps won't recruit you if you post with an alt on the eve-o. ima... e-coward Crying or Very sad.


Quebber
Posted - 2011.08.10 16:21:00 - [77]
 

I also agree that industrial's are badly done to and under appreciated in an alliance, when I left my old alliance there was one industrial who had already left, offered her a place in my corp.

That one industrial/ratter has in the drone regions provided us with more t1 pvp ship/ammo/modules/rigs than I will hopefully ever loose :)

I just provided a pos with assembly arrays, explained the simple idea that if we as a corp give all the ore/salvage to our indie person then she gives us free ships/modules/rigs/ammo for pew pew!! and even better if we insure these free ships we get free money!!


Nick Bete
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2011.08.10 16:29:00 - [78]
 

Originally by: Lady Spank
Well, without going into too much detail... Renters are generally incompetent scrubs that think they have done all they need to do by paying their rent each week/month. They are generally a liability in fleet ops. If you can even get them organised enough to fleet up they likely will bring absolutely godawful ships and fits and slow the gang down. Further they often make easy victims to roaming PVP gangs so the more renters you have, the more your region gets visited by skirmish gangs.

A lot of renters think they are buying the right to PVE in peace with a personal army on hand to squish any threats and will become petulant when asked to do anything else because ~ WE HAVE PAID OUR MONEY NOW LEAVE US ALONE ~


Nice attitude. This is the reason 70% of Eve lives in high sec and has no interest in ever leaving. Why deal with this kind of elitist BS mindset?

Miss Rabblt
Posted - 2011.08.10 17:22:00 - [79]
 

Originally by: Aus Man Industries

This about says it.
You don't help when the allaince needs it!
you increase the reward for hostiles in system
you want us to protect you.


1. try to build supercapital fleet without renters (who will grind iskies? pro-pvpers???)
2. who will support pvp-wind with stuff and ships? And who will support your POSes and bridges with fuel? Want to buy it all in Jita?
3. who will track enemies around space of your alliance?

Try to look around and not only to HUD of your ship

Quebber
Posted - 2011.08.10 22:16:00 - [80]
 

When it comes down to it, this is all about having fun, there is only two things I love in 0.0 that we are missing out on atm, one is large fleet roams combat (even with the lag I loved it) and the other is CTA's with a semi competent FC you can have fun in cta's :)

Sharon Anne
Caldari
Posted - 2011.08.11 00:08:00 - [81]
 

Why are people who pay pad rent but own their own trailers always the butt of econ-jokes. Hmmm better folks need to know. Wink

Laser Purification
Posted - 2011.08.11 00:29:00 - [82]
 


People look down on renters because they are:

- militarily unimportant. There's no motivation for them to develop serious PvP muscle because the landlord is supposed to do that.

- adds little to null-sec. They don't take, hold or lose space themselves. They're just the farm animals used to fill up empty space and sponsor their landlords. And the landlords don't even need to do much but sit back and enjoy the isk rolling in. They rarely have much of an alliance culture either.

- Sign on to do a *lot* of Eve Pve which is probably the worst part of the game. Leading to a situation in which extreme boredom and high rents pretty much encourage bot empires.

Valentina Valentia
Caldari
State War Academy
Posted - 2011.08.11 00:33:00 - [83]
 

Originally by: Quebber
Hi all,
I am fortunate to have found a pretty good alliance to rent from (Legion of xXDeathXx) the people are interesting and pretty much treat you with respect, all in all our renting experience as a small corp has been great.

But in the past, being a pvp grunt in some larger alliances especially western alliances the attitude towards renters stunk, I have no affiliation to the russian political in game wars but after alot of investigation and experience they were the only people I could even consider taking my friends to.

My past experience I saw alot of unused systems where a small corp of 10-20 people could flourish but the alliance in the area had no real interest in filling that void.

So why such a bad rap for renters ? We provide money for your war machine (I was renting two systems in Kavella = 805m per week yes that was alot and mainly due to wanting to try sov ect we pay alot less now), intel on the system maybe even if you are lucky people wanting to come join your pvp wars.

I understand we did not "fight and die" to gain that system but after the fighting is over what then ?


BEHAVE!!... un-monocled PEASANT!!!... down in your dung-hole and work!!!

*Slaps OP with a large fish to the head and calls his mother a hampster* Renters are 4th CLASS! do not dare to elevate yourselves to the role of the PLEBS!... know your place.

Wink


Name Is Unavailable
Posted - 2011.08.11 02:11:00 - [84]
 

this is eve...who DOESN'T get treated like they're third class?

Kogh Ayon
Posted - 2011.08.11 04:35:00 - [85]
 

Edited by: Kogh Ayon on 11/08/2011 04:35:41
If the western alliances you mentioned think they don't need the money, why bother to go the east?

You made the right choice, renters are great to fill the useless void while support our money to build super carriers.

Just ignore those damb people, they will see the heaps of nyxes crash their skirmish fleets down, then whining that we are "botters".

Bustin Jieber
Posted - 2011.08.11 06:02:00 - [86]
 

Originally by: Name Is Unavailable
this is eve...who DOESN'T get treated like they're third class?

Goons.

Haephestion
Posted - 2011.08.11 06:23:00 - [87]
 

I think the disrespect comes from this simple issue; Many people can get what you get for free. If you have enough savvy and enough decent pvpers, you can join an actual alliance, carebear all you want, and pvp at the same time. the difference is that youve managed to strike a bargain that does not involve you getting on your knees and blowing a guy; rather, you shake hands, understanding that you are useful, that while small, you add to a whole.

Renters do not add to a whole. The are that under-qualified *** who attains a position higher than they deserve because they are currently ****ing the boss.

CanIPost Please
Posted - 2011.08.11 10:24:00 - [88]
 

"I'd rather die on my feet than live on my knees."

Renters would rather live on their knees . . . in a video game . . . and that is just disgusting.

Simplus Massive
Posted - 2011.08.11 10:44:00 - [89]
 

Ask yourself why you care to worry about what class of EVE-citizen other gaming nerds want to box you into while also managing to make you believe it might all be true enough to be an actual fact.

Zey Nadar
Gallente
Unknown Soldiers
Posted - 2011.08.11 10:53:00 - [90]
 

Originally by: Simetraz
Now that you have seen the extended reasons let me give you the short version.

PvP'rs hate industrial's and ratters.
If you are not PvPing you are a waste of space.

That is not my personal opinion but it is the opinion of a good 80% of 0.0

Now you know.


Yet those two things do not cancel each other out. Rolling Eyes


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