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blankseplocked Time for another increase in NPC corp tax?
 
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Last Star Fighter
Posted - 2011.08.07 03:57:00 - [1]
 

I think so. Far too many players are just farming high sec missions non stop making a steady amount of very good ISK. CCP has even said the amount of ISK entering the game daily is out of control.

Would increasing it from10% to say 25-30% be enough? 50%?

This would also help balance out null sec reward and risk with the high sec reward and no risk.

Cornullus Rage
Posted - 2011.08.07 04:02:00 - [2]
 

It would also help if there wasn't a security hit to sec status for attacking them in lo sec.

Valentina Valentia
Caldari
State War Academy
Posted - 2011.08.07 04:05:00 - [3]
 

Originally by: Last Star Fighter
I think so. Far too many players are just farming high sec missions non stop making a steady amount of very good ISK. CCP has even said the amount of ISK entering the game daily is out of control.

Would increasing it from10% to say 25-30% be enough? 50%?

This would also help balance out null sec reward and risk with the high sec reward and no risk.


lets do this instead... how about we nerf mining yields accross the board - by 50% and then you will see alot LESS ISK entering the game you TROLL from Null... get over yourselves... you want a monopoly on everything - drop dead! Mad

Flamewave
Crimson Moon Society
Posted - 2011.08.07 04:08:00 - [4]
 

Veldspar doesn't create ISK, bounties do. But thanks for your elegantly-stated and cool-tempered opinion. Very Happy

Brooks Puuntai
Minmatar
Nomadic Asylum
Posted - 2011.08.07 04:21:00 - [5]
 

This really doesn't help much at all. It will only cause more people to make single man corporations and do corp jumps when decced. It does nothing to balance High vs Null and will have very little effect on the isk faucet.

If anything CCP needs to rework corp management and make it more rewarding for people to actually join player corps, instead of staying in NPC. Penalizing it even more will only cause people to get ****ed and quit.

Last Star Fighter
Posted - 2011.08.07 04:29:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Brooks Puuntai
This really doesn't help much at all. It will only cause more people to make single man corporations and do corp jumps when decced. It does nothing to balance High vs Null and will have very little effect on the isk faucet.

If anything CCP needs to rework corp management and make it more rewarding for people to actually join player corps, instead of staying in NPC. Penalizing it even more will only cause people to get ****ed and quit.


It slows them down for sure. Which means less ISK being injected into the game. Only those who bot heavily would be opposed to this anyways.

Brooks Puuntai
Minmatar
Nomadic Asylum
Posted - 2011.08.07 04:45:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Last Star Fighter


It slows them down for sure. Which means less ISK being injected into the game. Only those who bot heavily would be opposed to this anyways.


The idea is crap. Even the original idea of adding a NPC tax was bad. It has a larger negative impact on new players then it does bots. Most bots are in null btw, and the ones in highsec are mostly miners and market bots which aren't effected by corp tax.

As I stated before, instead of penalizing those who are in NPC they should improve the functionality and security of player corps. Make joining a player corp more beneficial to the individual member instead of penalizing those who don't.







Last Star Fighter
Posted - 2011.08.07 04:49:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Brooks Puuntai
Make joining a player corp more beneficial to the individual member instead of penalizing those who don't.


Going from a NPC corp with a 50% tax to a player run corp with 0% tax sounds pretty damn beneficial to me.

Valentina Valentia
Caldari
State War Academy
Posted - 2011.08.07 04:55:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Brooks Puuntai
Originally by: Last Star Fighter


It slows them down for sure. Which means less ISK being injected into the game. Only those who bot heavily would be opposed to this anyways.


The idea is crap. Even the original idea of adding a NPC tax was bad. It has a larger negative impact on new players then it does bots. Most bots are in null btw, and the ones in highsec are mostly miners and market bots which aren't effected by corp tax.

As I stated before, instead of penalizing those who are in NPC they should improve the functionality and security of player corps. Make joining a player corp more beneficial to the individual member instead of penalizing those who don't.



THIS!

Because right now I have over 2 years in the original NPC corps on all my chars, I long ago started a single corp and I never have joind a player one... why?

because I don't like being ganked for all the ISK I can trying to make a PLEX a month or some such crap, that PCorps are mostly flakey here today gone tomorrow the first War Dec they get, and so on... there was zero benefit to being in a player corp for me during 1yr and the 2nd was the same - the tax only made me say - **** it, better then losing all my stuff...

What are you the government - figure just make a new tax will motivate people to do something against their own interstes... god are you that stupid?

People will only do what is of benefit to them not because someone takes from their hard work to punish them for it...

Take out bots in Null and you will see the ISK slow down radically... because that is where the ISK is coming from, Empire miners aren't the issue.

I suspect the OP is a tax and spend Null-sec bot commander! KILL HIM!

Coeus Enderas
Caldari
Posted - 2011.08.07 05:07:00 - [10]
 

on the topic of government, Tax is a source of revenue, and the only one the country actually gets unless it learns to pillage and plunder again. which i doubt.

on to EVE, Removing access to ISK in the high-sec areas will not help the game in the least. people need to remember that this is a MMO from a for profit company, which means it needs new players. if you start making high-sec level 4's reward 1 mil on a good mission with another 3-4 in bounties, and then cut that in half because of Tax, then you need to start making ships cheaper. i can tell you as a newb i would not be playing right now if money had been hard to get and i was still unable to afford my drake.

if you want people to leave NPC corps, stop war deccing newb corps for some kill-board padding.

Barbelo Valentinian
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2011.08.07 05:21:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Last Star Fighter
I think so. Far too many players are just farming high sec missions non stop making a steady amount of very good ISK. CCP has even said the amount of ISK entering the game daily is out of control.

Would increasing it from10% to say 25-30% be enough? 50%?

This would also help balance out null sec reward and risk with the high sec reward and no risk.


Why do you assume that someone who likes to stay in the NPC Corps lives in high sec?

And since when was null sec high risk/high reward?

JC Ferguson
Federal Navy Academy
Posted - 2011.08.07 05:36:00 - [12]
 

The NPC corp tax issue shows CCP making the same mistake yet again: Forcing people to do something they don't want (forums, evegate, incarna, player corps) instead of enticing people to do something.

If people don't want to play 'space empires' with a bunch of (primarily) nerdy, grotesque, sociopaths, CCP shouldn't force them to. If players can't make their corporations enticing enough to compete with the 'noob corp' default, then that's too damn bad for them.


Valentina Valentia
Caldari
State War Academy
Posted - 2011.08.07 05:53:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: JC Ferguson
The NPC corp tax issue shows CCP making the same mistake yet again: Forcing people to do something they don't want (forums, evegate, incarna, player corps) instead of enticing people to do something.

If people don't want to play 'space empires' with a bunch of (primarily) nerdy, grotesque, sociopaths, CCP shouldn't force them to. If players can't make their corporations enticing enough to compete with the 'noob corp' default, then that's too damn bad for them.




THIS!

Small corps are like small business in RL, today they cant survive, let alone compete with Alliances and the meta game - you either become a "pet" corp or you die, all it takes is some notice from some group that you are staring out, and you will be WD'ed, station locked, and your few starting ISK lines will shut-down, the players will abandon and then the corp is dead... all for the price of what 10M ISK?

How about this... 1B ISK to War dec for a corp in HS, and the in low and null you can have at it... and you have to be a solo corp, Alliance member corps can't dec at all...

That would give PCorps a time to build income stings, train pilots and get things going for that much being rammed down our guts move that CCP wants people to make...

I can say this - the first slaughter at a GC of your new corp at a gate on a move will either make new players quit or simply never leave HS...

INCENTIVE, NOT PUNITIVE MEASURES!

Estephania
Independent Political Analysts
Posted - 2011.08.07 05:56:00 - [14]
 

You are concerned about mission runners when more than half of 0.0 is constantly botted to death for RMTRolling Eyes And guess what, those bots are not in the NPC corps.

Last Star Fighter
Posted - 2011.08.07 06:05:00 - [15]
 

While the rest of you do wild speculation on where most of the ISK injection comes from blaming anyone but yourself; perhaps you should refer to the hard facts of the QEN published by CCP themselves. A vast majority of players live in empire and that is where a vast majority of the ISK is coming from.

Deal with it.

It is either a much higher tax or the payout (including LP and items dropped) has to be decreased 50%. This game needs the ISK injection to be put in check ASAP.

Garresh
Minmatar
Opposite of Low
Posted - 2011.08.07 06:10:00 - [16]
 

Jesus christ this thread is a ****ing comedy gold mine. Not a single good ****ing suggestion here. Not one.

The problem is the ISK faucet, not corp taxes and ****. The easy way to move around this is to lower bounties across the board, and instead provide other incentives. W-space is full of people, and they don't contribute anything to isk inflation. Nullsec can just lower bounties and raise drop rates on higher meta mods or deadspace loot. Missions could shift the focus of their rewards to high meta mods and loyalty points.

Yes, this will hurt the income of people who run missions, complexes, and anomalies, but unfortunately they're basically printing money atm. There needs to be a rebalancing of this, and the only way to preserve the benefits of those tasks without printing money or making mining even more ****ty(see drone drops and mass reprocessing of mission loot) is high meta drops, which have high value but reprocess at the rate of Meta 1 drops. I mean christ, arbalest heavy missile launchers go for like 12 million. They don't contribute to the decline in ore values because they're a specialty good, they don't inflate the market, and they still give the people who grab them decent income.

Tax rates effect everyone, not just mission runners. Need to hit the isk faucet, not the isk sinks.

Nyio
Gallente
Federal Navy Academy
Posted - 2011.08.07 06:12:00 - [17]
 

I do think and hope the OP is joking.. ugh

Garresh
Minmatar
Opposite of Low
Posted - 2011.08.07 06:13:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Last Star Fighter
While the rest of you do wild speculation on where most of the ISK injection comes from blaming anyone but yourself; perhaps you should refer to the hard facts of the QEN published by CCP themselves. A vast majority of players live in empire and that is where a vast majority of the ISK is coming from.

Deal with it.

It is either a much higher tax or the payout (including LP and items dropped) has to be decreased 50%. This game needs the ISK injection to be put in check ASAP.


And for the record, LOYALTY POINTS AND ITEM DROPS DON'T CONTRIBUTE TO THE ISK FAUCET. Those items are traded with other players(indirectly, in the form of LP), while isk rewards are printed money.

Brooks Puuntai
Minmatar
Nomadic Asylum
Posted - 2011.08.07 06:19:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Last Star Fighter
While the rest of you do wild speculation on where most of the ISK injection comes from blaming anyone but yourself; perhaps you should refer to the hard facts of the QEN published by CCP themselves. A vast majority of players live in empire and that is where a vast majority of the ISK is coming from.

Deal with it.

It is either a much higher tax or the payout (including LP and items dropped) has to be decreased 50%. This game needs the ISK injection to be put in check ASAP.


Again your understanding and reasoning is flawed. The isk injection has very little to do with people inside a NPC. Meaning increasing the tax won't cause a noticeable decrease in injection. As stated before doing this will only cause people to either quit or make solo corps to avoid it. It forces a certain playing style on people who don't want it, while correcting very little.

As for the QEN your still wrong. The LP Store is actually one of the larger isk sinks in the game. So reducing the benefit for people to do them, and move to other things will lessen the effect of the LP sink. While I do agree that missions should be changed, maybe to something with less of a isk faucet to more LP/Goods income, but doing a reduction across the board would be detrimental.

You still have this ideology that every person in a NPC corp lives in highsec and runs l4s non stop. Or that everyone that runs l4s are in a NPC corp.

Omara Otawan
Posted - 2011.08.07 06:35:00 - [20]
 

Edited by: Omara Otawan on 07/08/2011 06:38:49

Originally by: Last Star Fighter

It slows them down for sure. Which means less ISK being injected into the game. Only those who bot heavily would be opposed to this anyways.


Botting for bounties is primarily a nullsec issue.

The problem really is that there is pretty much no risk involved short of getting awoxed, and even awoxing the bots is difficult with those that dont look for deep blue standings but only for empty local.

Tax increase is a dumb idea that has already been proven to be ineffective, the bounties simply need to go away completely in favour of tags you have to turn in.


And as for balance, to be honest nullsec and hisec are not that different in terms of risk. I'd even say hisec missioning has more risk involved if you are in a pimped out mission boat.

The only thing that needs looking at here is lowsec, the rewards are ridiculously low for the risk involved.

Chopper Rollins
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.08.07 07:39:00 - [21]
 

OP has not thought this through and does not understand the issue.
It's understandable though, as those things get in the way of posting something every damn day.


Vice Admiral Spreadsheet
Caldari
Posted - 2011.08.07 07:42:00 - [22]
 

I don't know how much of an issue this really is, but if NPC corp tax must be raised here's a suggestion:
Raise NPC corp tax to 15%. Corps with 1-4 subscribed/PLEX'd accounts (Not characters, accounts!) should have 15% tax by default. This tax is a sink, similar to NPC tax. Once a corp has 5 or more different accounts, the tax can be set normally, with no ISK-sinking.

Karia Sur
Posted - 2011.08.07 08:38:00 - [23]
 

NPC corp tax should be raised at the same time CCP declare war on nullsec botters. More ISK is generated by those cheats than by people staying within NPC corps and within the rules.

Dr Nefarius
Posted - 2011.08.07 08:46:00 - [24]
 

Wouldn't increasing the war dec cost solve a lot of the problems mentioned?
Say increase it by a factor of 20 or so, making it an actual cost compared to now. It would still me small isk for most, but people would spend it on deccing 'real' corps, that doesn't autodisband at the first sign of trouble.

And has been mentioned earlier in the thread, some more benefits to beeing in a player corp would be nice, (corp bookmarks, better security managment of corp assets etc.)

Ovella
Posted - 2011.08.07 08:55:00 - [25]
 

Sure, raising NPC tax might actually help in creation of more player-run (1man) corps. Not that anyone would care to wardec all of them, but at least possibility of it would be closer to reality of "cold harsh universe" carebears don't seem to grasp. Plus reducing L4 income or making L4s tougher (at least getting them to AE/blocade level) might help too.

And to balance risk/reward thing out: 0.0 carebears should get removal of local and chockepoints - that would make 0.0 harder to defend and much more dangerous.

Titus Phook
Posted - 2011.08.07 09:03:00 - [26]
 

Edited by: Titus Phook on 07/08/2011 09:04:05
And another butt hurt OP who thinks that because others don't play the way he does they should be nerfed.

For the OP's information NPC corp tax is already higher than 10%, in fact the actual figure is 11%. The NPC corp tax is already an ISK sink, the ISK taken in tax disappears into the ether, NPC corps don't spend it on ship reimbursment, POS fuel or whatever else Player corps spend the tax income on.

Some of us don't play to shoot at other players, we play to relax & have fun for a couple of hours by trading, mining, having a laugh in corp, helping out nubs with knowledge, isk, sometimes ships & modules etc. We do this in NPC corps because we don't want or need to put up with people whose idea of fun is ruining someone elses day.

If you want to wardec other corps, live in losec/nullsec thats fine by me, play the game & crap in the sandbox in the way you see fit.

Meanwhile I'll sit in my NPC corp, sign in for a few hours a day and crap in the sandbox in the way I see fit.

It's a sandbox, people will play in different ways, deal with it! your way isn't the only way to play.

Anya Ohaya
Posted - 2011.08.07 09:38:00 - [27]
 

Orphanage alt detected.

Marchocias
Posted - 2011.08.07 09:47:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Valentina Valentia
lets do this instead... how about we nerf mining yields accross the board - by 50% and then you will see alot LESS ISK entering the game you TROLL from Null...


What the hell are are you on about? Mining doesn't create isk... it creates minerals.

If you're going to oppose this idea, at least use one of the many available arguments that are actually logical, rather than one that is obviously false.

Dr Nefarius
Posted - 2011.08.07 10:00:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: Marchocias
Originally by: Valentina Valentia
lets do this instead... how about we nerf mining yields accross the board - by 50% and then you will see alot LESS ISK entering the game you TROLL from Null...


What the hell are are you on about? Mining doesn't create isk... it creates minerals.

If you're going to oppose this idea, at least use one of the many available arguments that are actually logical, rather than one that is obviously false.


Actually, through the insurance system minerals become isk. Not that it is a viable source of income since the insurance nerf, but it's still a considerable source of isk (not saying I agree at all with valentinas suggestion).

Marchocias
Posted - 2011.08.07 10:32:00 - [30]
 

Edited by: Marchocias on 07/08/2011 11:34:05
Originally by: Dr Nefarius
Originally by: Marchocias
Originally by: Valentina Valentia
...

...


Actually, through the insurance system minerals become isk. Not that it is a viable source of income since the insurance nerf, but it's still a considerable source of isk (not saying I agree at all with valentinas suggestion).


I would say that the insurance system is really creating isk via PvP, not mining.

You have to look at the specific action that affects the database, and its net effect on total isk and total stuff.
Eg:
Mining creates stuff.
PvP destroys stuff (and creates one specific type of stuff) and through insurance creates isk.
Missions create isk.
Popping rats creates isk and stuff.
Industry transforms stuff (with a marginal net loss of stuff) and destroys isk.
POSes destroy stuff.
PI creates stuff and destroys isk.
Trading destroys isk.

The problem is, in my opinion, that the only way to create isk is to do missions and shoot rats (which are basically the same thing). We need more isk faucets, and less money and stuff to come from missions.

Some thoughts:

1) I would quite like to see some kind of PvP missions added, where NPCs who dislike a particular player send other players in the viscinity to kill him. The hunter and hunted should be treated as though they have a free personal wardec between them for the duration of the mission, and the hunted should be told that the hunter has been sent after them.

2) POS based services. It'd be nice if it was possible to provide quasi-governmental services from POSes.
Eg, lets say a faction / alliance has a need of certain commodity services in a system under their control, and has a weekly budget to spend on each...
Healthcare, Education, Power Production, Policing, etc.
These could be supplied by player corps, by adding POS modules (eg. Hospitals, Schools, etc). The modules should use up some kind of stuff (eg. Pharmaceuticals and Datacores) and in return get a slice of the budget. This would create new opportunities for PvP. In nullsec, the budget comes from the Alliance who controls it, if they wish to spend that money, and ought to provide some positive that alliance can exploit.

3) Vice. Basically the same idea as above, but creating Brothels, Drug Dens, Illegal Arms Shops, in losec and nullsec. These use up Exotic Dancers, Narcotics and Small Arms. The budget comes from thin air (the local population), and this creates the opposite effect in a system than the government services.

4) Viceroys in losec. Player corps fight for some kind viceroy position in losec systems, which allows them control of the budget for that area, and gives them the same benefits that alliances would get in 0.0. It is therefore in their interests to crack down on the negative effects of vice in their area. They can, of course, just nick all the money instead. Could be tied into a dynamic security status system - crime and vice lowers it, services raise it. The budget available would then be based on how well the viceroy is doing.

One additional idea:

The mission and rat rewards could have a multiplier tied into the security status of the system. Some proportion of the reward goes to the ratter, and the rest goes into the budget pool for that system.
Eg:

Sec | Multi | Budget Pool
1.0 | 0.5 --| 0.5
0.9 | 0.55 -| 0.45
0.8 | 0.6 --| 0.4
0.7 | 0.65 -| 0.35
0.6 | 0.7 --| 0.3
0.5 | 0.75 -| 0.25
0.4 | 0.8 --| 0.2
0.3 | 0.85 -| 0.15
0.2 | 0.9 --| 0.1
0.1 | 0.95 -| 0.05
>0.1| 1.0 --| 0 (Nullsec alliances can get make their own budget)

This way, the isk faucet gets spread around, and it becomes advantageous to compete to provide services to highly populated areas.


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