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Thornat
Posted - 2011.08.09 08:32:00 - [31]
 

Originally by: Naran Eto
I don't think we should get rid of local totally, it's pretty useful sometimes, what i think should happen is you only show up on local if you're within scan range of another ship and only to that ship, or if you speak on the channel.


Well a simple solution is that you only show up in local if you talk and only to the people who are currently in local, aka if you jump in you dont see previous messages. To me the whole "scanning range" kind of defeats the purpose of having scanners and such. Local kind of, to me, pulls me out of the game and reminds me that "ya its a game". I like the emersion of this game above all else, the sense that Im really their, really doing what Im doing. The more of that we get the better.

Franny
Mentis Seorsum
Posted - 2011.08.09 09:05:00 - [32]
 

but if we remove local
we won't see things like

H74, way back when
dev shows up in local
us > why is a dev here?
Tomb > anyone know where the POSs are at?
us all responding things like "can't remember where your BoB alt put them?", and "wtf, just log on your main and use BM's"
till he threatened to nerf bat us all Laughing

I miss the days when dev'd had a sense of humor, and cared/played Sad

BLACK-STAR
Posted - 2011.08.09 09:22:00 - [33]
 

only load local portraits when people appear to you on grid? my small idea..

Valei Khurelem
Posted - 2011.08.09 09:25:00 - [34]
 

Originally by: Kro0k
Edited by: Kro0k on 08/08/2011 21:51:30
Edited by: Kro0k on 08/08/2011 21:51:06
If you dont want local, wormholes are only a scan away >_>

All I hear is "WHINE WHINE WHINE"

Edit: I do somewhat agree on the sov/local idea. Although i think you if own sov in a system you can choose to turn local off. And in NPC 0.0, lowsec, and highsec, there is always local.


Speaking of whining, shut up, or offer solutions.

Here is a legitimate problem with the game and all you do is shove in pretending there's nothing wrong and people are trying to have a perfectly rational debate. Just because 5% of the population want an easy time as possible ganking others doesn't mean all of us do.

Bane Nucleus
Mom 'n' Pop Ammo Shoppe
Transmission Lost
Posted - 2011.08.09 10:11:00 - [35]
 

High sec, low sec, and null should all have local the way it is now. That way, I can continue to be an elitist prick, wormhole dweller, and think I play this game better. Twisted Evil

Thank you.

PaulTheConvoluted
Posted - 2011.08.09 10:16:00 - [36]
 

Originally by: Valei Khurelem
Here is a legitimate problem with the game
This would indicate you approve of removing local (or at least that you see a problem with it)
Originally by: Valei Khurelem
Just because 5% of the population want an easy time as possible ganking others doesn't mean all of us do.
and here you are opposed?

Either that or I'd like for you to explain why you think removing local makes ganking less likely, because I think it just makes it easier for the hunters while forcing the prey to keep spamming dscan in order to have any sense of (perceived or real) security.

Siena Petrucis
Caldari
Jelly Kings
BricK sQuAD.
Posted - 2011.08.09 11:19:00 - [37]
 

Edited by: Siena Petrucis on 09/08/2011 11:19:16
I'd love to have local removed completely everywhere. As a replacement, we would need improved dscan. It should
- auto-repeat
- support some kind of friend-or-foe identification. So if YOU have a good standing to the pilot on dscan, he would reveal his identity to your scanner. All other pilots on dscan would be neutral. Scan results would be filterable by overview settings as today.
- it should also highlight new signals on dscan for a few seconds.

Obviously, cloaked ships would not show up.

Concerning the argument that the information on today's local is filled by the gates ... why does local know if someone logs into a player-owned outpost, or jumps into a system through a wormhole or covert cyno? That is not logical. Any why does local then only show players, not NPC's?

Concerning the argument that you should not feel alone in space ... in high-sec, the improved dscan would always show enough signals. And in low-sec/0.0 ... I think the improved opportunity for cloaked warfare will make sure that you very often get company :)

I think it would create new opportunities for small scale PVP ... e.g. miners might ask their corp buddies to babysit them in cloaked recons to repel attackers.

Miss Rabblt
Posted - 2011.08.09 11:30:00 - [38]
 

remove local. well. make it more real! Remove whole space around the ship. After all capsuleer is only body inside electronic device. Why the hell all stars, guns, engine trails and other unnecessary stuff? All you need it control panel before you. Speedometer, coordinate grid, other indicators. No more mouse controlling of ship! You control it by your brain. Only commands. For easier control let it be text mode.

You want realism? Laughing

Mr Kidd
Posted - 2011.08.09 11:36:00 - [39]
 

Originally by: Proclus Diadochu

Null Security Space -> Based on the system's SOV upgrade would determine how effective local would populate. Raw systems in Null, no local. High SOV systems, full local.

Just an idea.


I agree. And that's why Sov upgrades should only be purchasable via the NeX using a CC :)

Fatmarrow
Minmatar
Vote Chino
Posted - 2011.08.09 12:14:00 - [40]
 

Edited by: Fatmarrow on 09/08/2011 12:15:23
Edited by: Fatmarrow on 09/08/2011 12:14:44
Might I suggest a new mechanic that preserves local in general terms but allows an element of surprise and also inadvertently improves lag?

If there are new people in local, have a delay while each of them is added, in turn, to the list?

So someone who was already in local might see a single "(resolving)" or similar appear in local when anyone jumped in (or alternatively nothing would be added during the resolving process, for more sneakiness/surprise). At this point as far as they are concerned it might just be that single ratter who was knocking about (nothing to worry about) or a 30 man fleet. After a second or two the name would resolve and be added to local. If there was just that one person entering the system, the process would stop there. Otherwise there'd be another "(resolving)" (or nothing) appear in the local list, and then another and another, etc, after repeated delays.

This mechanic means that a large fleet could catch someone before it became immediately apparent that more than one or two people had entered the system, although no-one diligent need be caught because you can still scan for probes and/or ships to avoid getting caught out. Meanwhile you still have the positive benefits of local - the sense that you're part of a larger picture and the ability to chat when people are bored, etc. You might also get more inter-fleet fights (or, I admit, possibly less) if there was a bit more uncertainty about relative fleet sizes when one fleet jumped into another. That's from a low sec perspective at least, where roaming fleets find little to kill because everyone docks up as soon as local spikes. That sudden 'spike' has a real psychological impact that scares people out of space. This effect should be reduced with the 'gradual reveal' local proposed above.

Any good?

Khamned
Hikivirta
Posted - 2011.08.09 13:16:00 - [41]
 

I had a similar idea like this once.

high sec, same as now

low-sec - delayed: in the sense it only updates when you are spotted by the gate. - this is similar to highsec, but you have a full 60 seconds from when you jump through to make your presence aware to other people (if you hold cloak). good for scouts.

in addition, maybe add a mechanic where if you cloak up withing a certain time frame from decloaking, you can warp off, and not be recognized by the gate.

null-sec - local doesn't update the same way. its updates when you physically see somebody, on grid. like a gate, station, anomoly. updates would relay information through the fleet

Fatmarrow
Minmatar
Vote Chino
Posted - 2011.08.09 17:13:00 - [42]
 

Originally by: Khamned
I had a similar idea like this once.

high sec, same as now

low-sec - delayed: in the sense it only updates when you are spotted by the gate. - this is similar to highsec, but you have a full 60 seconds from when you jump through to make your presence aware to other people (if you hold cloak). good for scouts.

in addition, maybe add a mechanic where if you cloak up withing a certain time frame from decloaking, you can warp off, and not be recognized by the gate.

null-sec - local doesn't update the same way. its updates when you physically see somebody, on grid. like a gate, station, anomoly. updates would relay information through the fleet


That would also work.

Proclus Diadochu
Obstergo
Posted - 2011.08.09 18:15:00 - [43]
 

Originally by: Siena Petrucis
I'd love to have local removed completely everywhere. As a replacement, we would need improved dscan. It should
- auto-repeat
- support some kind of friend-or-foe identification. So if YOU have a good standing to the pilot on dscan, he would reveal his identity to your scanner. All other pilots on dscan would be neutral. Scan results would be filterable by overview settings as today.
- it should also highlight new signals on dscan for a few seconds.

Obviously, cloaked ships would not show up.

Concerning the argument that the information on today's local is filled by the gates ... why does local know if someone logs into a player-owned outpost, or jumps into a system through a wormhole or covert cyno? That is not logical. Any why does local then only show players, not NPC's?

Concerning the argument that you should not feel alone in space ... in high-sec, the improved dscan would always show enough signals. And in low-sec/0.0 ... I think the improved opportunity for cloaked warfare will make sure that you very often get company :)

I think it would create new opportunities for small scale PVP ... e.g. miners might ask their corp buddies to babysit them in cloaked recons to repel attackers.


I'm with you, Siena.

Originally by: Siena Petrucis
- support some kind of friend-or-foe identification. So if YOU have a good standing to the pilot on dscan, he would reveal his identity to your scanner. All other pilots on dscan would be neutral. Scan results would be filterable by overview settings as today.


We already have a something similar to this. We use Security Symbols in our ship names. However, it would be pretty cool to have a new addition to Dscan, that allows you and members of your fleet/alliance/corp to emit a 4-digit alphanumeric code that can be picked up on Dscan attached to your ship, that would allow members to ID you, but could be changed to prevent hostiles from getting familiar with your ID. This code could be put out by the FC/CEOs/Directors and plugged into your ship's emitter via a new tab in the scan window? I don't know, I like the concept.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

For those who don't know, Tragedy. is a wormhole alliance. However, we enjoy venturing out of our little hole to visit neighboring systems (ie. Nulls/Lows/Whoever links to us) and getting some "good fights".

Recently, we opened up into Russian space. Were we surprised by the botting, nope. Did we kill one, yes. Would we have liked to kill more, definately. We should start a Bottergeddon, hopefully it could trump Hulkageddon. :fingers crossed: Wink

My problem with local is it takes away from some of the inherent danger you should face as you venture further into the "unknown". Highsec, sure you should feel a sense of high security. Lowsec, you already get a warning before you go down there, it should be a bit more challenging. Nullsec WAS called the Wild West when I started this game, and it is FAR from the Wild West now. In some cases, Null is safer than highsec. Must fix this error. WH space is the frontier, and is fine.

Originally by: Windjammer
The WH experiment is a failure in incomplete implementation.


Have you ever been in a wormhole?


Har Harrison
Amarrian Retribution
Posted - 2011.08.10 01:13:00 - [44]
 

Originally by: Alternate Poster
Originally by: Har Harrison

since the client needs to know info about people regardless of if they are shown in local or not - how else does it know to show someone on grid etc...???


Wrong.
The client only needs to know about others if and when they interact, they land on grid, they're in the same station etc.

Hey genius - I said that... Client needs to know so show someone on grid...

Alternate Poster
Posted - 2011.08.10 10:29:00 - [45]
 

Originally by: Har Harrison
Originally by: Alternate Poster
Originally by: Har Harrison

since the client needs to know info about people regardless of if they are shown in local or not - how else does it know to show someone on grid etc...???


Wrong.
The client only needs to know about others if and when they interact, they land on grid, they're in the same station etc.

Hey genius - I said that... Client needs to know so show someone on grid...


Learn 2 da englush

Caldari Citizen20090217
Posted - 2011.08.10 12:19:00 - [46]
 

Edited by: Caldari Citizen20090217 on 10/08/2011 12:19:48
Originally by: Cearain
Botters will just reset their bots to do whatever needs to be done.


But CCP Sreegs job will be much easier. Just log the names of any character that dscans consistently 24/7 and ban.

Misunderstood Genius
Posted - 2011.08.10 13:08:00 - [47]
 

Edited by: Misunderstood Genius on 10/08/2011 13:13:48
The main problem with removing local is that it will cause more waste of time to hide, more scouting than PvPing to try to get intel first what is nearly impossible because you have no idea what you will really face for PvP, you did not see the 30 men fleet hiding next door off scan/cloaked or how many new pilots jumped in the last minute. Tbh: it will just boost the hidden blob FTW. And the final result is: after no solo PvP we will have no small scale PvP anymore because noone wants to waste ships by flying blindly around LIKE A NOOB into the bigger nerd-fish. No local will slow down the game especially for those ones who are not able to live in EVE full-time. Actually the game is time consuming enough EVEN with local. When I enter a system I like to know who is there, check chars, convo someone if necessary, check killboards to gather some intel for further PvP decisions and even with this PvP at top belt is still a challange when local fills up or you just realized that this pilot has 3 more corp mates in system but nothing on scan... YET. Just warping blindly around because there's just one ship on scan and get blobbed the next minute by 20 warping from off scan - you were too tired and lazy to check a system again and again with probes, d-scan or whatever - is more waste of game and RL time and no thrill at the end. Exactly this will happen. If you are not in a group, you will die the same way like noobs warping to top belt in Amamake for ratting. In w-space no local is a nice must have feature and due to the fact that w-space is mostly isolated where you usually face the local residents and some random visitors it's fun to warp around and check the POS stuff for intel first and probably if you have luck and patience you'll catch someone for a fight.

Jayce Alsomel
Posted - 2011.08.10 13:08:00 - [48]
 

Remove local everywhere.

Add local to Wormholes. Sleeper tech, amirite? ;)

Proclus Diadochu
Obstergo
Posted - 2011.08.11 22:03:00 - [49]
 

Hey Zymurgist,

Could you move this to the Assembly Hall possibly?

Now there are some positive and negative feedback, I'd like the CSM to give a glance. I know Mittens has a new interest in WH Space lately. Thanks.

Jaangel
Posted - 2011.08.11 22:15:00 - [50]
 

You cant remove local untill there is a new way to identify war targets.

I have no issue with any changes to local but they must be able to deal with the above game mechanic without breaking any other area of eve, Ie Alterations to directional scan to make war targets visible but breaks other fuctions of the scanner making it hard to identify none war dec targets

Jon Obstergo
Obstergo
Posted - 2011.08.14 23:35:00 - [51]
 

Originally by: Jaangel
You cant remove local untill there is a new way to identify war targets.

I have no issue with any changes to local but they must be able to deal with the above game mechanic without breaking any other area of eve, Ie Alterations to directional scan to make war targets visible but breaks other fuctions of the scanner making it hard to identify none war dec targets


Yea you can. Know where your targets live. Try not to be lazy.

Astrid Raholan
Posted - 2011.08.15 04:15:00 - [52]
 

Edited by: Astrid Raholan on 15/08/2011 04:15:42
Originally by: Razin
Originally by: Proclus Diadochu


You recon bots should have it easy in sov space? Why?


The only people still botting in 0.0 are the ones who haven't realised that botting L4 missions in empire give out money far more efficiently. I'd throw in a link, but I am sure CCP know how to google.


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