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Proclus Diadochu
Obstergo
Posted - 2011.08.06 20:59:00 - [1]
 

So, a couple of us were discussing the other day about local and the fact it makes botting simple and players lazy.

We came up with an idea that may help.

High Security Space -> High Security utilizes the most advanced tech and has those factions and Concord and such? So, Local count would be 100% accurate.

Low Security Space -> Low Security utilizes less advanced tech and would mean what ever "sensors" the systems use to populate local would be less effective. Possible method for determining what ships/pilots would populate local may be based on your ship's sig radius or something?

Null Security Space -> Based on the system's SOV upgrade would determine how effective local would populate. Raw systems in Null, no local. High SOV systems, full local.

Wormhole Space -> No local, ever!

Just an idea.

Trail Stevens
Posted - 2011.08.06 21:02:00 - [2]
 

+1

Razin
The xDEATHx Squadron
Legion of xXDEATHXx
Posted - 2011.08.06 21:13:00 - [3]
 

Originally by: Proclus Diadochu


Null Security Space -> Based on the system's SOV upgrade would determine how effective local would populate. Raw systems in Null, no local. High SOV systems, full local.


You recon bots should have it easy in sov space? Why?

Hroya
Posted - 2011.08.06 21:23:00 - [4]
 

Just get rid of local everywhere. No upgrades, no "Police intelligence", nothing.

You allready have your corporation channel, be it player corp or npc, to know you're not alone in eve and have people to talk to.

The rest of adjustments needed we can find out along the way :-)




Hemmo Paskiainen
Gallente
Posted - 2011.08.06 21:32:00 - [5]
 

omg look at all these high sec puppies commenting about 0.0... go back to your missions.... seems like noone wants people in 0.0 anymore after jb nerf

Proclus Diadochu
Obstergo
Posted - 2011.08.06 21:46:00 - [6]
 

I'm personally for dropping local all together. Make it like WH space across the board.

Spice up PvP everywhere. Except WH space, where local is already gone.

Valentina Valentia
Caldari
State War Academy
Posted - 2011.08.06 21:57:00 - [7]
 

CCP will never get rid of local - there rational is you shouldn't feel alone in EVE, so they give you local like a wubbie to comfort you if you are in a game and no one talks to you...

besides if it was based on real life... just imagine it... Facebook in space, with profiles and people with images of:

"Dude!... here is my throwing up on the Amarr monument!!... so rad..!!! *vomits again*... and here is my friend and I ****ing on it... it was like..."

I don't think we should complain about it... or CCP may try to fix it and OMG!!!... no, not good...Crying or Very sad

Kijo Rikki
Caldari
Point of No Return
Waterboard
Posted - 2011.08.06 22:06:00 - [8]
 

I think the idea on local has something to do with the jumpgates. Makes sense, it knows when its delivering and receiving a ship so its accuracy should be pretty solid.

Perhaps people coming through wormholes shouldnt be reported, and maybe have a trainable skill or a special ship that can hack, fool, or otherwise "lie" to the jumpbridges so they don't report you in local or lie about your status. (Oh hey, no worries, keep ratting guys, its just a blue...woah, wait...OMG WTFBBQRAPSESSION!!!)

Sterngauner
Posted - 2011.08.07 00:31:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Kijo Rikki
I think the idea on local has something to do with the jumpgates. Makes sense, it knows when its delivering and receiving a ship so its accuracy should be pretty solid.

Perhaps people coming through wormholes shouldnt be reported, and maybe have a trainable skill or a special ship that can hack, fool, or otherwise "lie" to the jumpbridges so they don't report you in local or lie about your status. (Oh hey, no worries, keep ratting guys, its just a blue...woah, wait...OMG WTFBBQRAPSESSION!!!)


Thats actually sensible reasoning, I would go a step further and suggest that if one uses the convinience of a stargate to cross vast distances in space then your going to show up in local. CCP could add the option of circumventing the stargate by slowboating it from one system to another and not being registered with stargate intel hense not showing up in local

Velendil Soritenshi
Posted - 2011.08.07 00:47:00 - [10]
 

Edited by: Velendil Soritenshi on 07/08/2011 00:50:52
Originally by: Sterngauner
Originally by: Kijo Rikki
I think the idea on local has something to do with the jumpgates. Makes sense, it knows when its delivering and receiving a ship so its accuracy should be pretty solid.

Perhaps people coming through wormholes shouldnt be reported, and maybe have a trainable skill or a special ship that can hack, fool, or otherwise "lie" to the jumpbridges so they don't report you in local or lie about your status. (Oh hey, no worries, keep ratting guys, its just a blue...woah, wait...OMG WTFBBQRAPSESSION!!!)


Thats actually sensible reasoning, I would go a step further and suggest that if one uses the convinience of a stargate to cross vast distances in space then your going to show up in local. CCP could add the option of circumventing the stargate by slowboating it from one system to another and not being registered with stargate intel hense not showing up in local



That is a good idea. I personally think that removing local would be fine so long as there was some kind of warning that an enemy has entered the system. The Sov system would work great for this.

Lets say with Sov 5 your system would then warn you via a flashing red icon if an enemy is in the system if they have entered via gate. No showing the name or anything in local. Just a warning saying there is someone there. When they leave via a gate the warning goes away. This could only be available with a certain level of Sov otherwise no warning is given at all. If someone enteres via cyno and then cloaks up they would not register the warning since they did not register through the gate but they guy that made the cyno would.

OMG A NEW USE FOR BLACKOPS!

Dorian Tormak
M0N0LITH
Posted - 2011.08.07 00:53:00 - [11]
 

I think its a great idea

Sobaan Tali
Posted - 2011.08.07 01:17:00 - [12]
 

They should remove the way local is set up. As it is, you see a list of everyone in system (their name, portrait, and a standings indicator). Instead, just show how many (via number, not list) war targets, -10 and -5, and a number for everyone else, rather than each individual contact.

Kro0k
Gallente
EVE Evacuation
Posted - 2011.08.08 21:49:00 - [13]
 

Edited by: Kro0k on 08/08/2011 21:51:30
Edited by: Kro0k on 08/08/2011 21:51:06
If you dont want local, wormholes are only a scan away >_>

All I hear is "WHINE WHINE WHINE"

Edit: I do somewhat agree on the sov/local idea. Although i think you if own sov in a system you can choose to turn local off. And in NPC 0.0, lowsec, and highsec, there is always local.

PaulTheConvoluted
Posted - 2011.08.08 22:41:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Kro0k

^^ This

If you don't like local -> Go to W-space.

There's a reason most ppl don't go to W-space. Not having local is quite likely one of the main contributors to that (next to the fact you can't get to a market easily).

Adonis Peverell
Posted - 2011.08.08 22:47:00 - [15]
 

I think it might be cool to just remove the full local list. Make it all like wormhole space where you only show up if you want to chat. That way people can still get their social fix in hubs. Maybe even have a setting where you can choose to show up on local chat? It just seems like a problem that no matter how cloak-and-dagger you go, people will still always know when you're there. Doesn't really fit with EVE's whole ethos to me.

Diesel47
Posted - 2011.08.08 23:10:00 - [16]
 

Hi-sec full local. When in war can pay concord to have you not appear to WTs until like 2 minutes into a system. Maybe.

Low-sec and Null... Limited Local like WHs. Shows big blob spikes coming in, doesn't show smaller gangs and solo pilots.. Though they show up after a while if they stay in system. Things like cloak can affect timer.

Cearain
Caldari
The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION
Posted - 2011.08.09 01:08:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Proclus Diadochu
So, a couple of us were discussing the other day about local and the fact it makes botting simple and players lazy.....


Botters will just reset their bots to do whatever needs to be done.

As far as players being lazy: I guess you think all players should be made to constantly push the dscan button to see if they are going to get blobbed. What could be more fun than repetitively pushing the same button as fast as the computer allows.

Local is important to anyone who does solo or small gang pvp. Removing local will just give a boost to blobbing. And blobbing does not need a boost in eve.

Bootleg Jack
Potters Field
Posted - 2011.08.09 01:28:00 - [18]
 

I would say local should not show anyone who doesn't talk, I don't really see what location has to do with it.

You send out radio waves, you get seen, why not just follow the real world, since it works and all ugh

Got radio silence?
  • Yes, you are not seen, at least not that way.

  • No, well, everyone knows you are there.




Kunming
Amarr
T.H.U.G L.I.F.E
Xenon-Empire
Posted - 2011.08.09 01:31:00 - [19]
 

Cant say anything about Low-sec, but I for one support the idea of removing local all together from 0.0 space.

The reasoning is simple, in 0.0 ur either with a large group or solo/small-gang, if you are in a large group you should have intel channels where you can quickly inform about intruders, if you are alone everyone besides you/your small gang is enemy anyway.

Local takes alot of fun gameplay out of EVE IMO, when I used to live in 0.0 my favourite pvp activity was to hunt down, trap, trick, wthever hostile targets, and I come from a time where no scan probes existed. Nowadays u enter a system drop probes and within 10 secs you have a warp in point to your target.

Dusty Warrior
Posted - 2011.08.09 01:40:00 - [20]
 

I like local and feel it should be left alone for hi-sec dwellers. We don't want to scare ALL the nubs away. I do feel it could change some in lo-sec and null.

I like the idea +1.

Also like the idea of giving the sov holders in 0.0 a way to limit local visibility. How? No idea but still like the idea! Maybe give sov holders the option: Full local, Blue local, Red local, etc.... meh.

Either way... interesting idea!

Ammzi
Posted - 2011.08.09 03:52:00 - [21]
 

Edited by: Ammzi on 09/08/2011 03:52:33
Nah, just imagine it.
You're out there in Nullsec with your Hulk mining and local is just like wormhole space.
Suddenly 50 people say "Hello Hulky!!" in local and the counter goes from 0 to 50 and before you know, 50 lovely t3's cloakies uncloak and beat you to ****ing pasta.

God yes,.... the tales would be epic.

Kogh Ayon
Posted - 2011.08.09 03:55:00 - [22]
 

Edited by: Kogh Ayon on 09/08/2011 04:11:42
Originally by: Proclus Diadochu

Null Security Space -> Based on the system's SOV upgrade would determine how effective local would populate. Raw systems in Null, no local. High SOV systems, full local.


This is not bad I think, but as someone mentioned, "The reason we make this change should not be 'it's cool/awesome', there should be a goal or objective".

So what is your goal to make this change? Boost the blobs? Hiding the real amount of ships in the fleet is always the goal of blobs.

Originally by: Ammzi
Edited by: Ammzi on 09/08/2011 03:52:33
Nah, just imagine it.
You're out there in Nullsec with your Hulk mining and local is just like wormhole space.
Suddenly 50 people say "Hello Hulky!!" in local and the counter goes from 0 to 50 and before you know, 50 lovely t3's cloakies uncloak and beat you to ****ing pasta.

God yes,.... the tales would be epic.


People would told you "Do not mining in a system with no sov"

Originally by: Kijo Rikki
I think the idea on local has something to do with the jumpgates. Makes sense, it knows when its delivering and receiving a ship so its accuracy should be pretty solid.

Perhaps people coming through wormholes shouldnt be reported, and maybe have a trainable skill or a special ship that can hack, fool, or otherwise "lie" to the jumpbridges so they don't report you in local or lie about your status. (Oh hey, no worries, keep ratting guys, its just a blue...woah, wait...OMG WTFBBQRAPSESSION!!!)

Null-sec is not the most effective place to make money now, so you will find where ever you go through are empty.
If people lost ships due to their mistake, they would think they can do it better next time.
If people lost ships due to unavoidable tactics, they would quit.

Valor D'eglise
Gallente
Red Cross Of Gallente Federation
Posted - 2011.08.09 04:14:00 - [23]
 

I don't care about local. And anyone who lives in or visits WH space regularly is familiar with the situation and knows how to deal with it.
I want to say: have combat scanner probe in system to determine initial ship count, scan often to verify number (not everyone is cloaked) and spam the dscan to find the probes they need to find you, even if they are cloaked.

When I think about it, I probably wouldn't enter WH space so often if I knew I am not alone in the system. However not having local and thus feeling alone makes me feel safe (using the described counter measures).

Har Harrison
Amarrian Retribution
Posted - 2011.08.09 04:31:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Sterngauner
Originally by: Kijo Rikki
I think the idea on local has something to do with the jumpgates. Makes sense, it knows when its delivering and receiving a ship so its accuracy should be pretty solid.

Perhaps people coming through wormholes shouldnt be reported, and maybe have a trainable skill or a special ship that can hack, fool, or otherwise "lie" to the jumpbridges so they don't report you in local or lie about your status. (Oh hey, no worries, keep ratting guys, its just a blue...woah, wait...OMG WTFBBQRAPSESSION!!!)


Thats actually sensible reasoning, I would go a step further and suggest that if one uses the convinience of a stargate to cross vast distances in space then your going to show up in local. CCP could add the option of circumventing the stargate by slowboating it from one system to another and not being registered with stargate intel hense not showing up in local
That is actually NOT sensible reasoning - the gates instantly transport you immense distances for ships without a jump drive (without a cyno since the network is already established). If you wanted to slow boat it, you would be so long waiting for it to happen that you would never use the option. Remember to even warp, you need to be able to lock onto something within a system!!!

Bad idea is bad - go understand the game mechanics then come back.

Also - removing local would NOT fix botters since the client needs to know info about people regardless of if they are shown in local or not - how else does it know to show someone on grid etc...???

Alternate Poster
Posted - 2011.08.09 05:13:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Har Harrison

since the client needs to know info about people regardless of if they are shown in local or not - how else does it know to show someone on grid etc...???


Wrong.
The client only needs to know about others if and when they interact, they land on grid, they're in the same station etc.

Windjammer
Gallente
Posted - 2011.08.09 06:49:00 - [26]
 

Having to spam the D scanner constantly just to find out if there’s anyone there is a real pain in WH’s especially if you’re doing something other than hunting other players.

Radar systems work constantly without having to hit the damn button every time you want it to do a sweep. Spaceships are less sophisticated than old earth radar systems? The concept is absurd.

Current local serves a function and until CCP comes up with something that does the same job, it should stay the way it is. The WH experiment is a failure in incomplete implementation. As one poster already said, it’s why there aren’t more people in WH’s. Punching that D scan button time after time gets old in a huge hurry.

-Windjammer

Valei Khurelem
Posted - 2011.08.09 06:53:00 - [27]
 

We need a to do a trial period of these types of sovereignty ideas and no local just to see what happens, good luck getting CCP to agree to that though.

Adonis Peverell
Posted - 2011.08.09 06:58:00 - [28]
 

It just doesn't make sense to have instant intel on exactly who is in the system. Instant local just doesn't fit into the sandbox mechanics, and makes it too hard to pull off a proper ambush. People should at least have to think about what they're doing in nullsec and operate some counterintelligence of their own. A surprise attack on a POS in null should really be a surprise attack. I understand that punching the D-scanner over and over isn't fun, and doesn't fit very well either, though. Perhaps CCP needs something to remediate this; maybe more modules dedicated to intelligence gathering? A limited range sensor sweep? I'm not sure, but it's something that needs to be addressed.

Thornat
Posted - 2011.08.09 08:08:00 - [29]
 

Edited by: Thornat on 09/08/2011 08:08:50
Originally by: Proclus Diadochu
I'm personally for dropping local all together. Make it like WH space across the board.

Spice up PvP everywhere. Except WH space, where local is already gone.


Ya I'm with you on that. No Local in Wormhole space has a just an absolutly awsome and raw feel to it, it makes the game so much more interesting. I doubt they will ever do it and I can kind of understand the socialization aspect to it but I would love to see it.

One thing they could do is simply make a local chat for each individual station, so when you get into a station you have local for everyone in that station, making local.. actually local. And with Incarna, assuming they get the station walking around stuff up I think that wouldnt even need to be nescessary. How awsome would it be to dock in to look for a guy in a station. slow sure, but from a gameplay thematic perspective I think its kind of a cool concept.

Never cared for the Local channel and its really mostly used for trash talking and free intel, so its not really all that nescessary.

Naran Eto
Posted - 2011.08.09 08:26:00 - [30]
 

I don't think we should get rid of local totally, it's pretty useful sometimes, what i think should happen is you only show up on local if you're within scan range of another ship and only to that ship, or if you speak on the channel.


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