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blankseplocked Advantages of heavy assault missiles
 
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Ketra Six
Posted - 2011.08.05 06:52:00 - [1]
 

I noticed that heavy assault missiles have really short flight times. What are the advantages using them if their range is so short? Any info on their best application would be helpful. Thanks!

Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
Posted - 2011.08.05 07:09:00 - [2]
 

More damage against cruisers and up.

Doesn't get that much more than heavy missiles though which is why a ship like the Sacrilege needs double damage bonus to avoid being laughed at (still pretty 'meh' output though).

If you have bonus to heavies then use them instead.
Four times the range, T2 precision ammo, more reliable application against moving/small targets etc.

In short: HAM's need a makeover like the rockets got to be truly viable.

Andy Landen
Caldari
Posted - 2011.08.05 09:07:00 - [3]
 

Well, as you know, short flight times are the advantage. In pvp, the principle complaint against missiles is the time to impact, whereas turrets are instant. The FC wants to see instant damage because oftentimes it is the alpha which pops the ship before logistics can repair it and also, the time between calling the primary and it disappearing allows for that much dps from that ship to be applied against your fleet. The sooner a ship is removed from the field, the sooner that the fleet's dps can be moved to the next primary.

To be honest, short range is a problem against fast fleets because it takes a while for your fleet to get in range of each primary and actually apply the dps, but if nothing goes in close to hold and tackle, then unless you have Lachesis/Arazu (the key), the enemy fleet can leave at will. This combined with the high alpha of missiles proves potent. This may leave you wondering about a fleet of shield tanking, nano HAC Cerberus and scram/disrupting Lachesis plus some logistics.

Lady Go Diveher
The Independent Troll Society
Posted - 2011.08.05 10:21:00 - [4]
 

Edited by: Lady Go Diveher on 05/08/2011 10:22:31
Eh ...?

It's the same with every weapon system. There's a short range, high damage version and a long range, low damage version.

Rockets / light missile launcher
HAM / HML
AC / Arty
Pulse / Beam
Blasters / Rails
etc / etc

(Usually!!) the best application of the long range is PVP, the best application of the short range is PVP.

Ikeo58
Caldari
Reformed Fr33ks
Posted - 2011.08.05 12:34:00 - [5]
 

The rate of fire is lower, for my skills its 3.2 seconds heavies are more like 5-7 seconds giving me over 530 DPS on my drake unsing HAMS.

I went up against a t2 heavy missile drake and outdamaged him easily.


Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
Posted - 2011.08.05 12:41:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Lady Go Diveher
It's the same with every weapon system. There's a short range, high damage version and a long range, low damage version...

Theoretically anyway, may even be how it was originally envisioned .. but .. Pulse/Beam are almost even in dps, artillery has higher dps than autos and blasters make rails cry.

So you see, that old rule-of-thumb is long dead and tracking has become a much greater factor.
Which incidentally is where HAM's are lacking, the ~25% dps advantage they have over heavies is nowhere near enough to compensate for poor range and atrocious explosion characteristics.

Ketra Six
Posted - 2011.08.05 14:00:00 - [7]
 

Thanks for the info. Speaking of explosion, does it also make it dangerous to use missiles at close range due to the explosion radius?

Vice Admiral Spreadsheet
Caldari
Posted - 2011.08.05 14:37:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Ketra Six
Thanks for the info. Speaking of explosion, does it also make it dangerous to use missiles at close range due to the explosion radius?

There is no actual AOE explosion.
The explosion radius is used in damage calculations against a ship's sig radius.

BeachParty
Caldari
Semi Precious
Posted - 2011.08.05 14:47:00 - [9]
 

I really depends how you intend to fly....

I love using hams (RAGE AMMO) on a drake, with hardwiring/skills/overloading the Drake will put out just over 800DPS with a 3BCU set up and works best with a web and scram and MWD. The advantage is obvious, you are able to lay down heavy damage and kill you target quicker. For me this means the targets are less likely to make it back to a gate or dock up. If I need the extended range I just switch to JAVELIN AMMO which I always have in the hold but rarely use due to my play style (Tackle/Damage Dealer).

If you need more damage projection (Beyond 25K) use HML's.

Diesel47
Posted - 2011.08.05 15:49:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Hirana Yoshida
Originally by: Lady Go Diveher
It's the same with every weapon system. There's a short range, high damage version and a long range, low damage version...

Theoretically anyway, may even be how it was originally envisioned .. but .. Pulse/Beam are almost even in dps, artillery has higher dps than autos and blasters make rails cry.

So you see, that old rule-of-thumb is long dead and tracking has become a much greater factor.
Which incidentally is where HAM's are lacking, the ~25% dps advantage they have over heavies is nowhere near enough to compensate for poor range and atrocious explosion characteristics.


Art does not out DPS auto.

Veronica Kerrigan
Minmatar
Hand Of Midas
F0RCEFUL ENTRY
Posted - 2011.08.05 18:49:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Lady Go Diveher
Edited by: Lady Go Diveher on 05/08/2011 10:22:31
Eh ...?

It's the same with every weapon system. There's a short range, high damage version and a long range, low damage version.

Rockets / light missile launcher
HAM / HML
AC / Arty
Pulse / Beam
Blasters / Rails
etc / etc

(Usually!!) the best application of the long range is PVP, the best application of the short range is PVP.


However in missiles alone we see a disconnect from turrets in the differences between short and long range. Short range turrets get 1. more dps 2. better projection 3. decreased fitting reqs. HAM only have the more dps pro, meaning they lose out on the 2 bonuses that make AC's generally preferable to atry, pulses to beams (except tachs), and blasters to rails

Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
Posted - 2011.08.06 11:49:00 - [12]
 

HAMs do 25% more DPS than HMs, with somewhat worse missile "tracking". HAMLs take more PG to fit, HMLs take more CPU.

The worse "tracking" of HAMs, relative to HMs, is a bit of a red herring, because it rarely actually manifests itself. HAMs are used within web range; your target will be webbed and if it's a cruiser or bigger, will normally take full damage from them. The problems only really arise if you're shooting at frigates.

The real problem is one of range. HAM fit such as the classic HAM Drake were wonderful a few years ago, and even today there's nothing actually bad about the fit itself. The problem lies instead of the nature of the environment - the AC/TE changes have pushed people away from close-range fights with armour-Hurricanes/Harbingers etc, towards shield-TE fits. This change in the nature of opponents has favoured the ability of the HM Drake to apply damage in the critical 20-30 km range, over the superior raw DPS of the HAM Drake.

Ymir Askiras
Posted - 2011.08.06 12:51:00 - [13]
 

Slightly derailling the topic, but are HAMs worthwhile to use in PvE? I've been getting alot of mixed reports, so for once I'd love a definitive yes/no.

I fly a Tengu, currently using HAMs and having alot of fun with it, although frigates can be a pain. I've got a range of about 32 KM at the moment, with heavies it'd be 100 if not more I think. The main difference I've found is the dps:

634 with heavies, 792 with HAMs. This is with an EFT all level 5 skillset and a cheap T2 equipped Tengu. The HAMs do almost 25% more dps, although the damage per shot is higher with Heavies.

Simply put: HAMs in pve? Good idea, bad idea?

Mfume Apocal
Minmatar
Origin.
Black Legion.
Posted - 2011.08.08 01:08:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Ymir Askiras
Slightly derailling the topic, but are HAMs worthwhile to use in PvE? I've been getting alot of mixed reports, so for once I'd love a definitive yes/no.


No.

The DPS you gain against BC/BS rats is lost moving to apply that DPS and spending additional time on more numerous frigates. That being said, do whatever the **** you want in PvE, no one cares.

Soldarius
Caldari
Peek-A-Boo Bombers
Posted - 2011.08.08 06:41:00 - [15]
 

I have found HAM Tengu is useless vs frigates unless you specifically rig for it. Since in PvE you don't need to worry about scram so much, and you don't want to get your hardeners neuted out, and pirate ships tend to do better damage at close range, you are better off using the range of HMLs.


 

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