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Electra Magnetic
Posted - 2011.08.04 17:44:00 - [1]
 

I am seriously getting frustrated with the forced PvP style in this game, and I know there are thousands of other players that have given up because CCP refuses to give them a break. Here's what Im talking about:
Pirate Corp A wardecs Highsec mission running corp B and then procedes to destroy all of their PVE fit ships and pods them in Highsec with no fear of repisal.

Please please please, give those that do not have maxed out ships and skills a chance to gain some wealth and have some fun without fear of being podded everywhere they go. It is already bad enough that it takes many months to achieve a moderate skill base in this game, dont make it feel like a punishment by forcing PvP on those that dont want to venture out of highsec.

Magnus Orin
Minmatar
Wildly Inappropriate
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.08.04 17:51:00 - [2]
 

Edited by: Magnus Orin on 04/08/2011 17:50:58
Simple: don't play Eve.

Eve is all about non-consensual PVP.

You consent to pvp as soon as you login to your account. Expect your boat to be violenced anytime you undock.

Don't like it? Don't play it. There are many many pve focused MMOs (even some in the space genre) out there on the market.

We don't want you.

AFK Master
AFK Chartered System Management
Posted - 2011.08.04 18:11:00 - [3]
 

Almost every aspect of Eve is base on PvP. If you don't like that, then you are sh*t out of luck.

Velicitia
Gallente
Open Designs
Posted - 2011.08.04 18:14:00 - [4]
 

solutions to your wardec problem:

1. DON'T ****ING FLY A MISSION BOAT DURING A WAR
2. SEE 1.


You've got many of the same skills these guys do. OK, maybe you don't have everything to 5... but then, they might not either.

For the sake of argument, let's say we've got a 50m SP "PvP" pilot going up against a ~5m SP "missioner" pilot.

We'll put both of them in rifters.

of that 50m SP, the "PvP" pilot will be lucky to be using 10 million SP.

The "missioner" can use nearly all of his SP in the fight, and will be approximately 80% as effective (toon skill-wise) as the "PvP" pilot. So, what this means is it'll come down to stuff like this:

* whose armour repairer cycles at the "right time"
* who chose the better ammunition for the fight
* who was able to manoeuvre their ship better
* who had an RR alt Rolling Eyes
* who chose the better guns (tracking vs dps vs range... I'm not gonna consider T2)




Magnus Orin
Minmatar
Wildly Inappropriate
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.08.04 18:29:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Electra Magnetic

then procedes to destroy all of their PVE fit ships and pods them in Highsec with no fear of repisal.



You do know you can shoot back right?

Malephar
Posted - 2011.08.04 18:34:00 - [6]
 

Edited by: Malephar on 04/08/2011 18:43:21
The game has PvP at its core, and not just in terms of combat (although PvP combat is required for the economy to function).

Market trading is a PvP exercise, as you're competing against other traders. By extension all industry is PvP as you're competing directly with other people in those industries.

I'm not being funny, but this probably isn't the game for you if you don't like an extremely competitive environment.

Edit: Of course, I dont want to drive people away from the game, so I will add that there are ways around your problem:

Train up some alts in different corps, to do different things... maybe have an industry &/ trade alt. That way, you can just play with another character if there is a war on that you don't like.

As stated above, avoid sending mission-fit boats out during a war (an extension of the rule 'don't fly what you can't afford to lose'...

Maybe try being the agressor instead of the agressed... you might like it! I'm not saying you ought to fight them when they totally outnumber or outgun you, but its quite likely they'll have other wartargets which you can use to your advantage. Try teaming up with the other targets to overcome them. Or you dock up and wait until they're bored with you, and look like they're heading off to some other targets, then come out quickly to try and pick off some of their stragglers.

Christopher AET
Segmentum Solar
Posted - 2011.08.04 18:40:00 - [7]
 

Inb4 hello kitty online.

Aqriue
Center for Advanced Studies
Posted - 2011.08.04 18:54:00 - [8]
 

Calling troll, because this has been done to death.

1. Creation date 5-20-2010
2. Creates own corp 5-21-2010 leave 02-26-2011. 10 months in solo corp, active or not
3. Scope from 2-26-2011 to new corp 3-14-2011, possibly went NPC during war if active for 10 months solo or looking for new corp to join after comming back to game
4. Joins new corp 3-14-2011 to 3-27-2011 whopping 9 days
5. Joins eve uni 3-27-2011 to 3-30-2011. 3 whole days of the most known shootfest corp in game, with a side order of large fries good indication should have idea its get shot first, ***** on forums later
6. Scope 3-30-2011 to 3-31-2011, then back to corp they joined in number 4.
7. Corp in number 4 is 3-31-2011 to this day, either 4 months of peace only to whine on the forums

This is actually funnier then most of the EVE trolls I see

If serious post and you are actually whining about a game thats more then 8 years old with a pleathora of information available on the internet, then your learning ability from the past year of creation has the speed of a glacier. If you are serious Rolling Eyes

Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Posted - 2011.08.04 19:03:00 - [9]
 


There is a lot of forced PvP in this game, but that's just part of eve.

Eve offers many ways to limit your susceptibility to forced PvP.

1.) Stay in an NPC corp -- deal with the taxes, as that's the price you pay to be immune to wardecs.
2.) Don't make yourself a target (flying easily destroyed ships with expensive mods or cargo).
3.) Don't stick your head out. Don't ramble in local, don't whine on the forums, and don't broadcast your an easy victim.

If you don't want to live like that, then deal with the wardec. Starved War Dec'ers get board quickly when they aren't fed fights or tears.

Feligast
Minmatar
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.08.04 19:18:00 - [10]
 

Quote:
Forced PvP isn't fun!!!!!!!


You wouldn't dress like that if you didn't want it.

E man Industries
Posted - 2011.08.04 19:40:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Feligast
Quote:
Forced PvP isn't fun!!!!!!!


You wouldn't dress like that if you didn't want it.

Sort of this.

I ran lvl 4 missions for years..you know what you don't fly when wardec'd???
Your mission running ships!

If wardec's and you fight back in cheap t1 cruisers/battle cruisers or simply deney them expesive kills you think they won't move on to jucier dumber targets?

Boo hoo you had to peform a diffrent activity for an entire week. Or maybe you move and PvE with scouts on the out gates..it's not hard

if you keep getting wardec's and keep having them renew..your the jucier dumber target.

you have to be truely special to complain about PvP in empire considering just how risk free you are.

Lady Spank
Amarr
In Praise Of Shadows
Posted - 2011.08.04 19:50:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Electra Magnetic
I am seriously getting frustrated with the forced PvP style in this game, and I know there are thousands of other players that have given up because CCP refuses to give them a break. Here's what Im talking about:
Pirate Corp A wardecs Highsec mission running corp B and then procedes to destroy all of their PVE fit ships and pods them in Highsec with no fear of repisal.

Please please please, give those that do not have maxed out ships and skills a chance to gain some wealth and have some fun without fear of being podded everywhere they go. It is already bad enough that it takes many months to achieve a moderate skill base in this game, dont make it feel like a punishment by forcing PvP on those that dont want to venture out of highsec.


You can drop to an NPC corp to avoid wardecs. No one is forcing them on you.

I'd be hard pushed to cite 1000 players in this game, are you sure you can back up this claim.

Your Pirate Corp A's wardec gives Highsec mission running corp B 24 hours notification of the incoming war. At this point you can drop roles and 24 hours later you are free to drop to an NPC corp therefore the war hardly affects you at all. POS towers can be offlined ASAP to save them.

In your hypothetical example you highlight all their PVE fit ships and pods getting blown up. This is nobodies fault but the victims. If you know there is a war on your corporation and you do nothing to deal with it then you deserve no sympathy.

What makes you think all wardeccers have maxed out skills? This is a completely unreasonalbe assumption.

Finally, implying you can do nothing about these bad people, implying that ~SKILLPOINTS~ are the deciding factor in a fight and thinking that PVP is forced on you just shows that you do not really have the fighting spirit it takes to be part of a decent corporation, or succeed at this game. It is a victim mentality like yours that leads to the success of these high sec 'griefers'. It is laughable easy to remove their threat and yet you do nothing about it.

Finally. If you actually manned up and went out to fight them in a half decent gang setup (of cheap tech I ships with mediocre skillpoints) you would probably find them mad at the odd tech II loss only to gank a few cheap tech I ships and contrary to what you believe, most of them are utterly incompetent morons with big mouths.

2 blackbirds, 2 oneiros and 3 thorax are more than enough to deal with the majority of these idiots.

Again, if it isn't clear enough. You can avoid this by remaining in an NPC corporation.

MAGNUS ANDRONICUS
Amarr
Divine Power.
Atlas.
Posted - 2011.08.04 20:15:00 - [13]
 

Electra, the solution unfortunately would kill EVE as it stands now. Back in 2006 there was a problem with what your talking about now, merc corps wardecing PVE players. At the height of the PRVTR war decs were at 150 at a time against other corps. CCP effectively nerfed everyone's ability to wardec corps for the very reason your talking about. Here are a few solutions to your issue since CCP, and the pod pilots would not let CCP do what your suggesting.
Oh yeah, if you leave high sec.... and you die..... it's your own damn fault!

The ultimate rule in eve is, learn to play!
Take an Alt, create a corp, and have all your players run to that corp, when they get wardeced!
Make sure you recruit badass pilots, who can actually play.
Set PVE/PVP traps for the corps wardecing you.
Operate out a different station.
Only transport goods, and contract them via alts.
Create SS's in systems you go to regularly!
Learn to escape!!!!


P.S.
PVE corps ..... are not hugely successful,


ViperLok
Posted - 2011.08.04 22:41:00 - [14]
 

I was like you. Give me my mission ship and a hand full of lv-4's.
I was happy.
In the early days I learned how to get ****ed off, How to lose ships, How to blame anyone other than my self.

I created a trial account and was toying around as my corp was in war-deck mode.

I trained up a rifter and just played around with some of my other friends and one thing lead to another and we started shooting at each other. that lead me into a better fit rifter and a understanding i took back to my main account.
As a person who hated PvP I now love it. Its all about experance and that can only come from getting out there and getting your hands dirty.
It opens the door to a bigger network and you earn respect from others when you show up and fight.

Ruze Ahkor'Murkon
Amarr
No Applicable Corporation
Posted - 2011.08.04 23:50:00 - [15]
 

Forced PvP is fun.

Seriously.




Why? Freedom. That's all that EvE is, really. It's freedom. To be bad, good, ignore others, affect others.

But most people who think about 'freedom', really want the 'freedom' to choose what others can and cannot do.

You can avoid pvp. It just takes teamwork, skill, and a little luck. With your proposal and complaint, you'd actually remove other player's freedom.

Reaver Glitterstim
Legio Geminatus
Posted - 2011.08.05 02:24:00 - [16]
 

I suck at pvp but I haven't had any problems with wardecs. Most of the time I never see them anyway, but I just make sure I don't fly anything expensive.

When I was newer and in a mining corp, we got wardec'ed. I stopped mining in my retriever and started mining in a bantam. Unfortunately none of them ever found me before the rest of my corp had managed to lose expensive stuff, freak out, and disband the corp. So the worst part of being wardec'ed was how my corpmates reacted.

Just don't let it psyche you out. Stay sharp, let your danger sense guide you, and don't let anyone else tell you that you can't have fun. If all else fails, quit EVE.

Kaizoe Ocshtau
Gallente
Aliastra
Posted - 2011.08.05 10:41:00 - [17]
 

Edited by: Kaizoe Ocshtau on 05/08/2011 10:41:25
A PVE corp? Why would you make a PVE corp? You begin in a NPC corp, which is a PVE corp...!
Like everyone has said: HTFU and shoot back! Otherwise you should quite, or not leave the safety of a NPC corp.

Valei Khurelem
Posted - 2011.08.05 10:54:00 - [18]
 

Edited by: Valei Khurelem on 05/08/2011 10:56:54
Edited by: Valei Khurelem on 05/08/2011 10:55:49
Sorry, but the OP is right, the fact that you can randomly war dec peaceful corps and gank them is part of what is destroying EVE and is only done by ***** gankers who want easy kills.

If you keep telling people to leave when they have a legitimate complaint, all that will happen is they'll oblige and then you'll have absolutely no one left to play with. This kind of pathetic, elitist and moronic attitude is one of the reasons EVE is failing and failing hard.

A simple way to fix this would be to put corps in categories of 'Pacifist' and 'Warlike' pacifist corps can still get ganked in low sec and 0.0 space but they can't be wardecced and made fair game. Warlike corps can follow the normal rules of engagement and declare wars on each other however much they like.

Kaizoe Ocshtau
Gallente
Aliastra
Posted - 2011.08.05 11:06:00 - [19]
 

And then a corp can be peaceful, gank others and not get wardeced? Gre... Um... No.
The only thing that prevents random wardecs is good fighting skills, and that has nothing to do with skillpoints.

Pinky Denmark
The Cursed Navy
Important Internet Spaceship League
Posted - 2011.08.05 11:15:00 - [20]
 

If you do not want to be wardecced leave your corporation and stay in the automatically assigned npc corp.
If you do now want to be suicide ganked fly something cheap with enough EHP to make you an unwanted target.
If you do not want to take any riscs stay docked - This is a game about risc and Eve Online would lose out if people could skip out of interaction when they want. Wardecs might not be completely fair but maybe if you aspired to play the game as intended you could actually stand up for yourself and get respect to be left alone.

Pinky

Duchess Starbuckington
Posted - 2011.08.05 11:49:00 - [21]
 

Edited by: Duchess Starbuckington on 05/08/2011 12:15:49
There are many things you can do to increase your survival chances as a player and as a corp, all of which work better than whining. If you're too stupid to use them it's not our problem.

By the way, a corp that has no idea how to handle a wardec doesn't deserve to exist.

GB2WoW

Quote:
EVE is failing and failing hard.


The login figures disagree.

PaulTheConvoluted
Posted - 2011.08.05 13:23:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Ruze Ahkor'Murkon
Why? Freedom. That's all that EvE is, really. It's freedom. To be bad, good, ignore others, affect others.

But most people who think about 'freedom', really want the 'freedom' to choose what others can and cannot do.
It works the other way around as well. You want the freedom to do what you want. However, if you want to shoot a missionrunner or miner, you take away their freedom to run missions or to mine.

EvE is not all about freedom, far from it. You want the freedom to shoot me? I can deny it to you by not undocking. You want the freedom to mine? I can deny it to you by suicide ganking you. You want the freedom to sell stuff on the market? I can 'deny' it to you by undercutting you.

Eve is about trying to stay alive. Some just have more luck at it than others.

Velicitia
Gallente
Open Designs
Posted - 2011.08.05 13:34:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Valei Khurelem
Edited by: Valei Khurelem on 05/08/2011 10:56:54
Edited by: Valei Khurelem on 05/08/2011 10:55:49
Sorry, but the OP is right, the fact that you can randomly war dec peaceful corps and gank them is part of what is destroying EVE and is only done by ***** gankers who want easy kills.


There is no "Peaceful" corp in EVE. There are only corps who 'get' EVE, and corps who think that EVE is like every other MMO out there (i.e. the 'corp' is just a 'guild' and really means nothing). The latter happen to be incorrect.

Originally by: Valei Khurelem

If you keep telling people to leave when they have a legitimate complaint, all that will happen is they'll oblige and then you'll have absolutely no one left to play with. This kind of pathetic, elitist and moronic attitude is one of the reasons EVE is failing and failing hard.

Fact of the matter is, OP doesn't have a legitimate complaint. EVE is not like every other MMO out there. It's a cold, dark, ruthless world... and it was designed that way. The wardec mechanic (while sometimes one-sided) balances out the benefits of being in a corporation.

Eve is "failing hard" because CCP messed up pretty bad with Incarna (also, summer slump), which led to higher than normal amounts of people 'quitting' (read:taking a break) EVE.


Originally by: Valei Khurelem

A simple way to fix this would be to put corps in categories of 'Pacifist' and 'Warlike' pacifist corps can still get ganked in low sec and 0.0 space but they can't be wardecced and made fair game. Warlike corps can follow the normal rules of engagement and declare wars on each other however much they like.


We already have that.

'Dove' = NPC Corporation (rookie corp or auto-assigned when you leave a player corp).
'Hawk' = any player-run corporation

(yeah, yeah, i'm using the RL political viewpoints... but it sounds better than 'pacifist' and 'warlike'ugh)

grazer gin
Posted - 2011.08.05 14:47:00 - [24]
 

Electra after reading your corp/alliance description i believe your entire alliance has no rightful place in eve and that its your mis guided goals that are clouding your mind to the true nature of eve.

Its my opinion that total extermination would be the only way to cleanse eve of your filth.

Velicitia
Gallente
Open Designs
Posted - 2011.08.05 15:28:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: grazer gin
Electra after reading your corp/alliance description i believe your entire alliance has no rightful place in eve and that its your mis guided goals that are clouding your mind to the true nature of eve.

Its my opinion that total extermination would be the only way to cleanse eve of your filth.


sort of this...

Just read the corp/alliance desc... and Shocked.

Pretty funny that you operate "NBSI" yet aren't allowed to engage in low/null/w-space... sounds more like NRDS to me. NRDS is a *bad* way to play this game, unless you're Chribba or an empire pilot not wanting to deal with CONCORD (hence, wardecs?)

Barbara Nichole
Cryogenic Consultancy
Black Sun Alliance
Posted - 2011.08.05 18:46:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Electra Magnetic
I am seriously getting frustrated with the forced PvP style in this game, and I know there are thousands of other players that have given up because CCP refuses to give them a break. Here's what Im talking about:
Pirate Corp A wardecs Highsec mission running corp B and then procedes to destroy all of their PVE fit ships and pods them in Highsec with no fear of repisal.

Please please please, give those that do not have maxed out ships and skills a chance to gain some wealth and have some fun without fear of being podded everywhere they go. It is already bad enough that it takes many months to achieve a moderate skill base in this game, dont make it feel like a punishment by forcing PvP on those that dont want to venture out of highsec.


don't make yourself a target.. understand the mechanics of the game. Learn that every aspect of the game pits one player or group of players against another.

Don't be a victim..last resort: there are other games.

Yulinki Atavuli
Minmatar
Caldari Investment and Security Industries
Innovia Alliance
Posted - 2011.08.05 18:53:00 - [27]
 

Edited by: Yulinki Atavuli on 05/08/2011 18:53:30
Originally by: E man Industries
Originally by: Feligast
Quote:
Forced PvP isn't fun!!!!!!!


You wouldn't dress like that if you didn't want it.

Sort of this.

I ran lvl 4 missions for years..you know what you don't fly when wardec'd???
Your mission running ships!

If wardec's and you fight back in cheap t1 cruisers/battle cruisers or simply deney them expesive kills you think they won't move on to jucier dumber targets?

Boo hoo you had to peform a diffrent activity for an entire week. Or maybe you move and PvE with scouts on the out gates..it's not hard

if you keep getting wardec's and keep having them renew..your the jucier dumber target.

you have to be truely special to complain about PvP in empire considering just how risk free you are.


i don't think you got his troll. he's talking about the OPs avatar. *hint* R4PE *hint*

Yolo
SmellsOFelderbarry
Posted - 2011.08.05 21:45:00 - [28]
 

So remove wars, move all lvl 4 agents to lowsec and nullsec.
Voila, we dont need wars anymore.

Spr09
Posted - 2011.08.05 23:21:00 - [29]
 

sounds like a whiny carebear to me, come and talk to me in nullsec so we can talk this out! YARRRR!!

Herzog Wolfhammer
Gallente
Sigma Special Tactics Group
Posted - 2011.08.06 00:32:00 - [30]
 

Edited by: Herzog Wolfhammer on 06/08/2011 00:33:42
Originally by: Electra Magnetic
I am seriously getting frustrated with the forced PvP style in this game, and I know there are thousands of other players that have given up because CCP refuses to give them a break. Here's what Im talking about:
Pirate Corp A wardecs Highsec mission running corp B and then procedes to destroy all of their PVE fit ships and pods them in Highsec with no fear of repisal.

Please please please, give those that do not have maxed out ships and skills a chance to gain some wealth and have some fun without fear of being podded everywhere they go. It is already bad enough that it takes many months to achieve a moderate skill base in this game, dont make it feel like a punishment by forcing PvP on those that dont want to venture out of highsec.




You appear to be running on the premise that you have to engage them. If you are attempting to shoot back, then good for you. At least you are fighting. But if you are trying still to run missions while being hunted down, you might consider another game. This game is not played in one way and one way only and running missions is not the only way to play.

I get the sense that you operate under the premise that you have to stay in one place, or have a "home base" to operate out of and cannot move on.


The concept of the sandbox is that you can find your own way to handle things. You can use relocation and movement to give the deccing corp a major headache without even having to shoot them or be shot. You can also go an fly cheap, and deploy the most deadly weapon of all: economics. If you fly cheap and their ammo costs more than your ship, your skills will grow and if your crew learns how to fight cheap, they might actually start winning. If your enemy sends 5 ships against you, each costing say 50 million ISK, and your crew manages to take out one ship costing that much, while losing say 5 ships that only cost say a million each, you actually win.
Not all winning is the same and if you can work out a way to cost them more, they will get tired of it.


Spanks words of wisom are true:
Quote:
Finally. If you actually manned up and went out to fight them in a half decent gang setup (of cheap tech I ships with mediocre skillpoints) you would probably find them mad at the odd tech II loss only to gank a few cheap tech I ships and contrary to what you believe, most of them are utterly incompetent morons with big mouths.


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