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blankseplocked So why aren't there any Eve clones out there?
 
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Kevric
Talocan Scrap Metal and Recycling
Talocan United
Posted - 2011.08.03 16:03:00 - [1]
 

it is odd to me that after ~9 years of success there are no Eve clones out there. Well, there's the Mecha one but really given CCP's success with Eve you'd think there'd at least be a couple of them out there.

Are they really that hard to program? You'd think it'd be easier to develop because there'd be less developer content to be made since most of what goes on is player generated. I've been wondering this for awhile now.

Brooks Puuntai
Minmatar
Nomadic Asylum
Posted - 2011.08.03 16:08:00 - [2]
 

Edited by: Brooks Puuntai on 03/08/2011 16:08:10
Eves success isn't anything special when it comes to the gaming community. Eves been around for what 8 years now and hasn't even cracked 500k subs. When compared to other games that sell that amount at launch. The thing that does set Eve apart is the fact that its been consistently growing over the years and has a somewhat loyal community. Which it seems CCP is doing everything in their power to **** off recently.

Wilhelm Riley
Posted - 2011.08.03 16:08:00 - [3]
 

Blane etc.

Kevric
Talocan Scrap Metal and Recycling
Talocan United
Posted - 2011.08.03 16:11:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: Brooks Puuntai
Edited by: Brooks Puuntai on 03/08/2011 16:08:10
Eves success isn't anything special when it comes to the gaming community. Eves been around for what 8 years now and hasn't even cracked 500k subs. When compared to other games that sell that amount at launch. The thing that does set Eve apart is the fact that its been consistently growing over the years and has a somewhat loyal community. Which it seems CCP is doing everything in their power to **** off recently.


I can kind of see your point. But with 500,000 subscriptions at $14.95/month that's almost $90 million a year. Not too shabby. Not WoW money but enough to make a decent living.

Mendolus
Aurelius Federation
Posted - 2011.08.03 16:14:00 - [5]
 

It's a niche demographic, so you will find less developers competing over it given that it has already been fairly well cornered up to this point and will likely remain so in the foreseeable future, i.e. at least a few more years.

Anything that comes out now, will not likely topple the hold CCP has on online space games for a long while yet, even if it were to come out today.

Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
Posted - 2011.08.03 16:14:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Brooks Puuntai
Edited by: Brooks Puuntai on 03/08/2011 16:08:10
Eves success isn't anything special when it comes to the gaming community. Eves been around for what 8 years now and hasn't even cracked 500k subs. When compared to other games that sell that amount at launch. The thing that does set Eve apart is the fact that its been consistently growing over the years and has a somewhat loyal community. Which it seems CCP is doing everything in their power to **** off recently.


You're right, and you're wrong. 500k subs meant you were a major player on the MMO market, before WoW hit. Since then everything is measured with WoW-numbers, and judging by that, no MMO is a "success" to be honest.

In my relative terms, as one of those older MMO-players who been through most (if not all) of the major titles, I'd say a MMO is successful when it keeps 'stable' (subs matters less) over a big chunk of years. Games that spring to mind is EVE, WoW, and in particular, Everquest. Everquest set the standard for the industry, and in fact it deserved alot more subs considering how WoW just made a highly populistic version of it.

There's a few other games that did more or less bad, Lineage had potential but broke down to bots, bunch of games were solid in the tens of thousands of subs over years, or had "alot" (hundreds of thousands) of subs but didn't last long. If you consider Diablo 2 a MMO, and I would, then that should be listed among the successful ones for sure.

But hey, it's all subjective.

Grey Stormshadow
Starwreck Industries
Posted - 2011.08.03 16:21:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Kevric
Well, there's the Mecha one but really given CCP's success with Eve you'd think there'd at least be a couple of them out there.



Well in all fairness if the Mecha one you're referring to is Perpetuum, it is pretty much 90% copy of EvE online. Just the graphics, user interface and certaint aspects of gameplay are different. Most stuff is same or slightly modified versions. Of course it is also more limited and lacks features what EvE already has, because it is rather new game.

Having said that - there is stuff what EvE could learn and "rip" from Perpetuum also.

Othran
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2011.08.03 16:47:00 - [8]
 

Personally I remember the days when 5000 players was normal. Eve was very empty.

OK so you could live out of a can in provi/catch/tenerifis/etc with no risk but it was pretty boring a lot of the time as you might not see another player there for a month.

People did form much closer relationships then as well - I'm still in contact with people from 2003 who no longer play. In contrast I have maybe one person that I actually talk to OOG from the lifespan of Othran (Dec 2008).

The problem is critical mass - the point at which your game REALLY begins to work in the way you envisage. Losing npc orders for most stuff was Eve's "critical mass" point. PvP games with penalties - which Eve is (or certainly was, I'm not sure about things even now) don't attract the same audience as PvE so getting "critical mass" is hard.

Much easier to make a fluffy bunny MMO as your target market will be much larger.

Cipher Jones
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.08.03 17:10:00 - [9]
 

Because EvE is dying™.

Obvious answer is obvious.

Ai Mei
Starfish Operating Syndicate
Posted - 2011.08.03 17:42:00 - [10]
 

Too many carebears out there.

No one likes the all or nothing pvp style developed by UO. If you die in any other game, you respawn with all your stuff and all is well.

You die in eve, you drop a ton of f-bombs as you see the price of your clone and how much isk you lost in your little venture.

Sure there will be a ton of knock off games out there that are in space in what not, but none of them will be cut throat of as unforgiving as eve online. NO developer would dare make a game like that other than CCP.

Michael Omega
Caldari
Airkio Mining Corp
Intergalactic Exports Group
Posted - 2011.08.03 17:53:00 - [11]
 

Star Sonata is the only one close to eve that I have actually played before coming to eve online.

Klandi
Consortium of stella Technologies
Posted - 2011.08.03 18:21:00 - [12]
 

The X series by Egosoft was the first space game I played prior to Eve and it was one of the reasons that I went down that path. You could say it is a clone of Eve except it is single player only.

Karash Amerius
Sutoka
Posted - 2011.08.03 18:31:00 - [13]
 

Because people want swords and magic instead of autocannons and drones.

Also, people want themepark games instead of sandboxes.

It is just the way it is.

Takamori Maruyama
Amarr
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
Posted - 2011.08.03 18:34:00 - [14]
 

Edited by: Takamori Maruyama on 03/08/2011 18:34:29
Not popular, if you ask why?
require some logic to play the game
Hardcore
Death Penalty
Large universe to explore
Depends a lot on team work

Gaming industry now in these days just look for the most profitable business.
Aka WoW clones.

Conclusion?
Popular games are for kids with aspergers, since they can play it solo with no penalty on gameplay.

Mithfindel
Zenko Incorporated
Posted - 2011.08.03 18:35:00 - [15]
 

Most space games I am aware of seem to rather take the Elite route, i.e. small craft you pilot with a joystick. Which has its own problems to be made as a MMO. There are at least three MMOs in that genre: Jumpgate Classic (possibly followed by the new Jumpgate game), Vendetta Online and Black Prophecy. Also, it's easier to work out a single-player game than to run a MMO - the only easy part with MMOs is that many MMOs really don't have AI programmed to the mobs, specially if there's PVP. As for LAN games, check out Artemis - it's a space ship bridge simulation (maximum of one player ship with six officers, though, but multiple player-controlled ships are planned).

Kevric
Talocan Scrap Metal and Recycling
Talocan United
Posted - 2011.08.03 18:47:00 - [16]
 

I meant to focus on sandbox MMOs. I really don't care if it's a spaceship game or not. It's the sandbox portion that appeals to me. I think there would be a market for more sandbox games of whatever genre.

Ok, I can provide a little bit of room at my house. Who wants to move to Florida and start programming another sandbox game? I will provide the Mountain Dew and Cheetos/Doritos.

BehindDOORNEXWhore
Posted - 2011.08.03 18:59:00 - [17]
 

Seeing as a load of folk discovered the joys of Tanks,

I thought this has some potential...

World Of Planes


Mordenn G'Kar
Posted - 2011.08.03 19:22:00 - [18]
 

Because EVE is a clone.

Kraven Stark
Caldari
Atavism Industries
Posted - 2011.08.03 19:28:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Brooks Puuntai
Edited by: Brooks Puuntai on 03/08/2011 16:08:10
Eves success isn't anything special when it comes to the gaming community. Eves been around for what 8 years now and hasn't even cracked 500k subs. When compared to other games that sell that amount at launch. The thing that does set Eve apart is the fact that its been consistently growing over the years and has a somewhat loyal community. Which it seems CCP is doing everything in their power to **** off recently.


It could be that CCP is more interested in attracting new players leading to a larger player base rather than focusing on the needs of those that currently play.

If they alienate 50% of their current user base, but triple in size over a couple years, the bottom line looks better.

Emperor Cheney
Celebrity Sex Tape
Posted - 2011.08.03 19:35:00 - [20]
 

I don't get it either. Nerds love sci fi, nerds love MMOs. EVE should be a blockbuster, frankly. It isn't because EVE is a cluster**** of bad programming and gameplay decisions. Out of 10 friends I hang with frequently from many different walks of life (but all with some bit of nerdiness), 4 have expressed interest in EVE, and 2 tried it. But those 2 went away because of the poor gameplay decisions of this game, the horrible UI, and the fact that they would have to either take tutoring sessions in game with me, or skim whole wikis just to learn the basic rules. The game designers of EVE actually take some idiot pride in keeping the rules hidden.

*Bad UI. A friend hears about this spaceship MMO, and hey, they loved battlestar and Star Trek, hell yeah. They watch you play, and what do they see? A spreadsheet down the entire right side of the screen, chat windows on the entire left of the screen, a scanner tucked somewhere in the corner, a ship that is stuck in the middle of the camera and UI controls that take up most of the remaining free screen space. That's about as much of a sci-fi experience as a pen and paper role playing game can provide, since either way, it's all just imagination.

*This person wants to play anyway. But then, they are informed it will be at least a month before they can even be line fodder effectively in a decently fit tackle frigate. And it will be years (!) before they can seriously compete with that guy taunting them in local. And god help them if they want to do industry instead of PVP. Too imbalanced on old player v new player with the gameplay decisions on skillpoints. Also, aggression mechanics so complicated and unintuitive that a new player has no chance. But a new player should HTFU and learn, right? Well. . .

*Horrible documentation. The documentation in-game is often outright WRONG, or incomplete to the point of being wrong, forcing new players to consult wikis or ask in corp for every little thing.

*Bugs. Bugs everywhere.


All of this combines into a game that is just hideously unfriendly. Even veterans of this game get frustrated and walk away. If there was a fantasy game with all these problems, it wouldn't have survived a year. But for reasons that confound me, EVE is one of the only space games in town. Until Star Trek Online, it was the only game in town at all.

I think it's a matter of time until someone, somewhere, makes EVE 2, and makes a fortune with it. And I'm guessing it won't be CCP that makes it.

StarGlider7
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2011.08.03 19:52:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Emperor Cheney
Lots of stuff that was a quality read +1


Coupled with the fact that it's community driven and playing on your own has limitations, I wouldn't be at all surprised if some enterprise wasn't already working on an "EVE 2"


Tun Wehsac
Posted - 2011.08.03 19:59:00 - [22]
 

You can get clone from medical station.

No for real, scifi isnt hot. Dwarfs and daggers on the other hand... Just look at media and especially movies.

Hicksimus
Gallente
Mom's Friendly Spaceship Company
Posted - 2011.08.03 20:20:00 - [23]
 

Cheney hit the nail on the head there. I'm a computer tech, a University student and host of LAN parties but haven't been able to convert 1 of many nerds into playing this game. I've been going since 2003 and I can't put it down I enjoy carebear tears too much, but at no point do I feel like EvE is a game or that EvE is real, it's a real example of a wasted opportunity though.

Imagine EvE with very few Supercarriers, very few titans(with no bridging ability or very expensive bridging), logi that isn't overpowered, and no jump bridges or jump freighters and with belts that must be scanned down(all belts, no static). Blueprints that may be of high quality and for nice items but blueprints that degrade and expire with use A game that you actually play and plan in. A game with alliances using industrial convoys and wanting to control routes to markets. The belts need to be probed in all systems so war targets and pirates can't rip your miner up within 15 seconds of entering the system.(also with a good not half ass probing interface) A game that never shows you who is in local just an interface item that lets you know fleet and corp mates are there unless the person is on grid(makes it interesting and saves a load of screen space).

EvE could be a very real very fun adventure but at the moment it feels like so many different people have worked on it that it's less a game and more of something that lawyers have created. I also hope that some day there is an alternative made by somebody who sees what EvE does wrong or somebody who buys EvE and has the nuts to remove some of the junk and poor decisions. Actually Perpetuum does a very good job of this....



 

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