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blankseplocked Plz rebalance faction ships
 
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Moghydin
Silver Snake Enterprise
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2011.07.31 20:11:00 - [1]
 

And yet again CCP fails in balancing things. From being totally useless pieces of junk they made faction ships into unbeatable pwnmobiles that make T2 virtually obsolete. Is there a chance of them being balanced correctly at some point?

Ammzi
Posted - 2011.07.31 20:46:00 - [2]
 

No! Don't touch my nightmare, I love it <3

Ai Mei
Starfish Operating Syndicate
Posted - 2011.07.31 20:47:00 - [3]
 

Let me edumacate you on the proper countermeasures to new faction ships.

Step 1, recognize all of them are gun boats except for the guristas ones.

Step 2, train amarr cruiser 5

step 3, train recons ships

step 4, attack with a lot of curses

step 5 ???????????

step 6 win.

Suitonia
Gallente
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
Posted - 2011.07.31 20:54:00 - [4]
 

Too bad nothing ever engages a solo Curse unless they know they can kill it. I.e. ship with Nosferatu or Scram HAM drake.

Ai Mei
Starfish Operating Syndicate
Posted - 2011.07.31 21:40:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Suitonia
Too bad nothing ever engages a solo Curse unless they know they can kill it. I.e. ship with Nosferatu or Scram HAM drake.


I will admit that no one will engage a curse unless they are in a missile or drone boat. but remember curse neuts can go from 29-37 km depending if they faction fit it or not. But a corpum a-type nos is win.

Hwong Jian
Posted - 2011.07.31 21:43:00 - [6]
 

T2 neuts go 37.5km. They'll also suck your cap dry faster than the NeX with your wallet.

Oooo. Can that become a new saying? Where something happens faster than CCP can snatch away your cash?

Tsukimaru
Amarr
Stargate SG-1
Fatal Ascension
Posted - 2011.07.31 21:49:00 - [7]
 

Why would you want to make some of the most expensive ships in the game even easier to kill? Noone would every fly them.

Pim Tocker
Posted - 2011.07.31 21:52:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Moghydin
And yet again CCP fails in balancing things. From being totally useless pieces of junk they made faction ships into unbeatable pwnmobiles that make T2 virtually obsolete. Is there a chance of them being balanced correctly at some point?


I'm like Shocked what! I'm usually pretty clueless about what CCP is up to before it's too late (I blame only myself), but does this mean I got horribly b**f**ed (again) when I sold off my Nightmare? And my remaining faction ships are still really useless pieces of junk. (navy faction) Wrong faction?

Moghydin
Silver Snake Enterprise
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2011.07.31 21:55:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Tsukimaru
Why would you want to make some of the most expensive ships in the game even easier to kill? Noone would every fly them.


May be because the game should be a bit more about skill than blindly pumping ISK into something for auto-win.

Tsukimaru
Amarr
Stargate SG-1
Fatal Ascension
Posted - 2011.07.31 21:56:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Moghydin
Originally by: Tsukimaru
Why would you want to make some of the most expensive ships in the game even easier to kill? Noone would every fly them.


May be because the game should be a bit more about skill than blindly pumping ISK into something for auto-win.

Right, like it takes skill to blob something with cheap T1 junk.

Mina Sebiestar
Minmatar
Mactabilis Simplex Cursus
Posted - 2011.07.31 21:58:00 - [11]
 

i would choose vargur instead of faction tempest any day of the week for pve.

i would choose maelstrom instead of faction tempest any day of the week for pvp.

if that isn't definition of fail ship i don't know what is.

Bart Starr
Posted - 2011.07.31 22:24:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Moghydin
And yet again CCP fails in balancing things. From being totally useless pieces of junk they made faction ships into unbeatable pwnmobiles that make T2 virtually obsolete. Is there a chance of them being balanced correctly at some point?


WHY, Mogyhdin, WHY are you trying to nerf my Fleet Scythe? Its a mini-Typhoon you know. Its 'versatile'. Evil or Very Mad

Soi Mala
Whacky Waving Inflatable Flailing Arm Tubemen
Posted - 2011.07.31 23:06:00 - [13]
 

Only the angel ships need changing, and even then they only need a very slight tweak.

HTFU



MissingNo1
Posted - 2011.07.31 23:43:00 - [14]
 

Edited by: MissingNo1 on 31/07/2011 23:44:34
Originally by: Soi Mala
Only the angel ships need changing, and even then they only need a very slight tweak.

HTFU





Don't you dare touch my machariel---S---!! :P

ninja edit - Leave the bonuses as they are, Change it's agility though, way too fast for a ship that is nearly the same size as a chimera!!

Ehdward
Caldari
Nex Exercitus
Raiden.
Posted - 2011.07.31 23:58:00 - [15]
 

Nerf navy Ospreys.

Fademist
Posted - 2011.08.01 01:13:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Mina Sebiestar
i would choose vargur instead of faction tempest any day of the week for pve.

i would choose maelstrom instead of faction tempest any day of the week for pvp.

if that isn't definition of fail ship i don't know what is.

then u dont know how to fly a faction tempest...

Raigir
Frontier Explorer's League
Posted - 2011.08.01 03:24:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Tsukimaru
Originally by: Moghydin
Originally by: Tsukimaru
Why would you want to make some of the most expensive ships in the game even easier to kill? Noone would every fly them.


May be because the game should be a bit more about skill than blindly pumping ISK into something for auto-win.

Right, like it takes skill to blob something with cheap T1 junk.


Indeed.

http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=13914935

Unfortunatly my little thrasher poofed before I got on the killmail Sad.
Faction ships don't need much balancing from their current stand point. The angels ships have a deserving nerf headed their way and thats to be expected, but in general even post nerf all faction ships have their neat little niche that they can fill i.e. bhaalgorn = anti capital, vigilants = cool tackles, macherial = pope mobile of nano ships.

space rush
Posted - 2011.08.01 03:35:00 - [18]
 

hate to bust your bubble but it seems you dont understand a thing about faction ships. 1 they should be stronger as they are the best of two races.
2 you get what you pay for. 3 its not about balance its about skill.
i would suggest buying one because from your rant it seems you dont own one.
once you buy one im sure you will retract this thread. and yes they are well worth the money...cough cough nightmare FTW

Borun Tal
Minmatar
Space Pods Inc
Posted - 2011.08.01 03:49:00 - [19]
 

Nothing wrong with faction ships. Thanks for playing.

Mina Sebiestar
Minmatar
Mactabilis Simplex Cursus
Posted - 2011.08.01 04:02:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Fademist
Originally by: Mina Sebiestar
i would choose vargur instead of faction tempest any day of the week for pve.

i would choose maelstrom instead of faction tempest any day of the week for pvp.

if that isn't definition of fail ship i don't know what is.

then u dont know how to fly a faction tempest...


Right well i am happy you are enlightened.

go pro go.

Large Collidable Object
morons.
Posted - 2011.08.01 04:28:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Mina Sebiestar
i would choose vargur instead of faction tempest any day of the week for pve.

i would choose maelstrom instead of faction tempest any day of the week for pvp.

if that isn't definition of fail ship i don't know what is.


So what? I probably would as well...

- Vargur is more skill intense and costs twice as much - and it's more effective in pve than a fleet pest on top of that? How dare they?

- Mael is fully insurable, which is quite an advantage in pvp if isk is an issue, so...

Lakuma
Posted - 2011.08.01 04:30:00 - [22]
 

Considering faction ships are designed to dish out alot of damage...and as faction items aren't easily accessible to most players (directly)...and thus are expensive...I'd say they are by and large working as intended.

Dramiels are getting nerfed some - CCP has already confirmed that for the winter expansion, along with supercaps getting balanced.

T2's are hardly obsolete to faction ships - the assault variants perhaps, since they too are dmg-oriented only. But considering the tier 2 hulls are primarily niche-oriented, I'd say they aren't obsolete at all.

Now if you're talking Faction Warfare - yeah, pirate ships are a pretty big problem since most players can't afford to lose those on a daily basis and they for the most part severely overpower tech 1 and navy ships (by virtue of being cheaper/easier to get). The proposal there has been that since pirate factions aren't in FW, pirate ships shouldn't be either (in the complexes), this removal would help PvP flourish a little more in FW.

Mina Sebiestar
Minmatar
Mactabilis Simplex Cursus
Posted - 2011.08.01 04:46:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Large Collidable Object
Originally by: Mina Sebiestar
i would choose vargur instead of faction tempest any day of the week for pve.

i would choose maelstrom instead of faction tempest any day of the week for pvp.

if that isn't definition of fail ship i don't know what is.


So what? I probably would as well...

- Vargur is more skill intense and costs twice as much - and it's more effective in pve than a fleet pest on top of that? How dare they?

- Mael is fully insurable, which is quite an advantage in pvp if isk is an issue, so...


So op is full of it...yes no maybe.

it is not just that mael is insurable fleet pest cant offer anything for its price.

to put it simple anything that pest can do mael/phoon(regular or faction) can do better.

Makar Kravchenko
Posted - 2011.08.01 04:47:00 - [24]
 

Angel ships. LOL. The glass cannons of eve. Scram, Webs, and Neuts kill dramiel, cynabal, and machariel. Each pirate faction ship is fine. But they are not meant to be win button. They each fit certain tactics. Fly them to the tactic and they are nice. Fly them the wrong way and they suck. Me thinks bro died too many times and is mad.

Large Collidable Object
morons.
Posted - 2011.08.01 04:55:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Mina Sebiestar

So op is full of it...yes no maybe.

it is not just that mael is insurable fleet pest cant offer anything for its price.

to put it simple anything that pest can do mael/phoon(regular or faction) can do better.


I think he's referring to pirate faction - navy faction is so irrelevant these days, many people forget they even exist when they talk about faction...

But then - flying pirate faction is more skill intense than navy faction and pirate LP are more tedious and risky to obtain than getting bazillions of empire faction LP running FW missions in a stealthbomber, AFKing L4s in highsec or just doing invention (Marauders), so the better performance (and higher price) is justified in my eyes.

Mina Sebiestar
Minmatar
Mactabilis Simplex Cursus
Posted - 2011.08.01 05:01:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Large Collidable Object
Originally by: Mina Sebiestar

So op is full of it...yes no maybe.

it is not just that mael is insurable fleet pest cant offer anything for its price.

to put it simple anything that pest can do mael/phoon(regular or faction) can do better.


I think he's referring to pirate faction - navy faction is so irrelevant these days, many people forget they even exist when they talk about faction...

But then - flying pirate faction is more skill intense than navy faction and pirate LP are more tedious and risky to obtain than getting bazillions of empire faction LP running FW missions in a stealthbomber, AFKing L4s in highsec or just doing invention (Marauders), so the better performance (and higher price) is justified in my eyes.


^agreed piwates ships are bad ass working as intended. YARRRR!!

Moghydin
Silver Snake Enterprise
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2011.08.01 05:14:00 - [27]
 

Yes, was referring to pirate ships, especially to Angel ships. Faction ships as a whole are pretty fine. The fact that you see as many Angel ships as other pirate ships combined means that something is not balanced as it should be.

Large Collidable Object
morons.
Posted - 2011.08.01 05:29:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Moghydin
Yes, was referring to pirate ships, especially to Angel ships. Faction ships as a whole are pretty fine. The fact that you see as many Angel ships as other pirate ships combined means that something is not balanced as it should be.


Well - the Dramiel is getting nerfed as it was really out of line with any other frig-sized ship in the game and is killing frig pvp.

The Cynabal kind of obsoletes the Vagabond for a couple of isk more, but I don't really see an urgent need for nerfing it. Granted, the other pirate faction cruisers blow hard in comparison.

The Mach is undoubtedly the strongest turret ship outthere, but then, this is also related to projectiles being overpowered in general - also, losing one costs you more than losing a carrier...

The Bhaalgorn isn't much worse as a PvP ship, the Nightmare isn't much worse as a PvE ship as long as you're in the right corner of space and the vindicator is probably the only blaster-BS that would still be viable today and will probably be 'the next mach' after Blasters got fixed next year.

Suitonia
Gallente
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
Posted - 2011.08.01 09:35:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: Makar Kravchenko
Angel ships. LOL. The glass cannons of eve. Scram, Webs, and Neuts kill dramiel, cynabal, and machariel. Each pirate faction ship is fine. But they are not meant to be win button. They each fit certain tactics. Fly them to the tactic and they are nice. Fly them the wrong way and they suck. Me thinks bro died too many times and is mad.


What is funny about this post is that you somehow don't understand that the Dramiel has almost assault frigate EHP while going 5.4km/s with dual prop, fantastic edge of scram range dps, fantastic kiting ability, both tracking bonus, falloff bonus and drones, while doing Taranis DPS to 8km and being able to GTFO out from anything that isn't an AB/Scram/Web fit AF, or Cruor/Daredevil (Dramiel can actually beat both 1v1 unless they have specific fits too). Thats the problem with the Dramiel. Its no where near a glass cannon sporting a Medium shield extender and damage control with faction frigate HP bonuses. The Dramiel really needs a nerf to either it's ability to fit dual prop with MSE (either by a PG nerf or slot layout change, mid to low) or its dps needs to be reduced somewhat (removing the drone bay or something). It is not ok for the Dramiel to be faster than every ship in the game, while doing Taranis DPS and having near to AF level EHP.

The Cynabal is probably the most balanced of the Angel ships. It offers a very tiny % more damage than the Vagabond, is twice as agile, can field medium drones for extra damage or can roll 2x groups of lights. Other than the stupidly high agility making it warp faster than a frigate, nothing really stands out. I actually prefer using a Vagabond over the Cynabal in small gangs where we have logistic support because the Vagabond gets HAC resists making the reps much better than the Cynabal. nerf the agility a bit on this dude but don't touch anything else it's fine.

On the Machariel, I don't really know what to think. Its an unique ship and it's really difficult to compare many things too it. I honestly think that Artillery on the Machariel is probably overpowered. It just has so much damage projection while being faster than LR HACS. It's literally like 3 LR Muninns rolled into one ship with better range, agility and speed, maybe a powergrid nerf could limit artillery fits a little bit. I think that AC Machariels are pretty fine though, maybe a slight agility nerf is in order, but otherwise i don't think the Mach is that bad.

But basically, even if you ignore the Mach/Cynabal, nerfing the Dramiel would literally make like 12-14 ships viable again.

Twisted Girl
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2011.08.01 09:45:00 - [30]
 

Edited by: Twisted Girl on 01/08/2011 09:46:07
Machariels is def. pretty hard to hold down. even with my 22km scram+30km web+neuts, they tend to drift out of range as long as they got 1 cycle off with their mwd because of their quick acceration/agility and mass. please nerf so I can kill them easyer.


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