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Novah Soul
Posted - 2011.07.31 19:41:00 - [1]
 

Hello all.

I have a Rattlesnake setup to use sentrys, but was wondering if a AC Maelstrom would be as good as or better then the Rattler.

My Gunnery skills are basically on par with my missle skills and im training large proj. turret 4 as I type this.

Any suggestions?

Vincent McFly
Posted - 2011.07.31 20:13:00 - [2]
 

AC mael would be good an excellent ship till you could get in a mach. I flew one until I saved up enough to buy my mach. But once in the mach, never look back.

Just my 2 cents


grumpyguts1
Posted - 2011.07.31 21:44:00 - [3]
 

Edited by: grumpyguts1 on 31/07/2011 21:45:09
I have been training for a Nighmare and have, until recently, been using an Abbadon with Tachyon's, I dual box, so the ship doesn't need to tank much. I thought I would try out a Maaelstrom and am enjoying running it with 1400mm arty's. Before this I was set on the Nighmare.. but now.. I have no idea what to do.. damn you Winmatar Laughing
Not sure how much better a Mach would be as I can't seem to get a huge amount more DPS out of it... but my advice would be to try it out.. you will not look back...

Martin Coffey
Posted - 2011.07.31 22:06:00 - [4]
 

I'm very interested in hearing more on the topic of Nightmare vs. Machariel

Flakey Foont
Posted - 2011.07.31 23:41:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Vincent McFly
AC mael would be good an excellent ship till you could get in a mach. I flew one until I saved up enough to buy my mach. But once in the mach, never look back.

Just my 2 cents




I agree with this.

Coeus Enderas
Caldari
Posted - 2011.07.31 23:52:00 - [6]
 

so a mach is the supreme lvl 4 mission runner?

Linda Shadowborn
Gallente
Dark Steel Industries
Posted - 2011.07.31 23:59:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Coeus Enderas
so a mach is the supreme lvl 4 mission runner?


I would say the nightmare gives it a run for its money vs sansha/blood raiders and drones. And the tengu if you just blitz for LP. but yupp the mach is pretty beastly

Headerman
Minmatar
Quovis
Shadow of xXDEATHXx
Posted - 2011.08.01 02:43:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Flakey Foont
Originally by: Vincent McFly
AC mael would be good an excellent ship till you could get in a mach. I flew one until I saved up enough to buy my mach. But once in the mach, never look back.

Just my 2 cents




I agree with this.


+1 more.

An AC Mael is a bit of a handful to use, since you have to work cap, speed, shield and targets, it is more work than the RS but that is what makes it fun i guess :)

With good skills you can squeeze 1k DPS out of an AC Mael, and it's natural shield resists make it good for Minmatar space.

Get in a Mael, run enough L4's to be able to buy a Mach, with faction fittings, and insure it, then start using it. Don't sell the Mael, they are good assetts.

Nimrod Nemesis
Amarr
Royal Amarr Institute
Posted - 2011.08.01 03:19:00 - [9]
 

TBQFH the AC mael is the best vanilla jewship in the game, bar none. People talk about the raven as though it were the best, it's just **** now. Winmatar has been superior for years and only recently have the truecarebears caught onto this fact. If not for the tengu being lolbest at hard-as-hell-to-scan-down and such there would be nothing but ac mealstroms and machs running missions from Motsu to Stain.

ALL HAIL THE SUPERCAP NERF: MINMATAR ONLINE!

Aitena
Posted - 2011.08.01 06:46:00 - [10]
 

Nothing beats the tengu at blitzing.

Nothing.

If you get high faction standings and decline every mission that you can't blitz, you are in business.

JonnyRandom
Posted - 2011.08.01 07:04:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Linda Shadowborn
And the tengu if you just blitz for LP.


Originally by: Aitena
Nothing beats the tengu at blitzing.

Nothing.


In what possible way can a tengu that doesn't have much more DPS than a BC be best at blitzing missions compared to gank-setup faction BSs like the Mach and Nightmare?

If you want to convince me otherwise I want to see a fit that you use for blitzing in a tengu.

Aitena
Posted - 2011.08.01 07:12:00 - [12]
 

Edited by: Aitena on 01/08/2011 07:30:22
Originally by: JonnyRandom
Originally by: Linda Shadowborn
And the tengu if you just blitz for LP.


Originally by: Aitena
Nothing beats the tengu at blitzing.

Nothing.


In what possible way can a tengu that doesn't have much more DPS than a BC be best at blitzing missions compared to gank-setup faction BSs like the Mach and Nightmare?

If you want to convince me otherwise I want to see a fit that you use for blitzing in a tengu.


http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1478115

Essentially, cherry-pick missions that you can kill triggers and advance on. These missions are slow for larger ships - long align times, slowboating, etcetera. You accept multiple lowsec missions at a time and go around in your -nearly- unprobeable tengu, blitzing them and laughing as the combat probes fail to scan you down before you finish each mission. Once you're sitting on 20 million LP, liquidate them all into BPCs and other high value items.

It ends up being way in excess of 100m/hour.

And the reason why the Tengu is leaps and bounds above the pack in this regard is:
Speed - in excess of 600 m/s cruising speed with the afterburner on. Makes for quick burns to gates.
Agility - fast align times.
Damage Projection - While the Tengu might not be as high dps as the faction BSes, you can put out ~700 dps at basically any range, close, far, without tracking difficulties, jamming problems (high Caldari sensor strength), etc.
Resilience - Sig+Speed+resists makes the tengu an absolute champion at tanking large amounts of incoming dps. Again, not necessarily as much as the BSes, but way more than you need to blitz missions effectively.
Nearly unprobeable - A tengu that doesn't want to be probed down is very hard to find. So much so that you can complete lowsec L4 missions before the prospective PVPer can lock you and warp to you. And there aren't any bubbles to ruin your fun in lowsec :)

Kush Monster
Big Tobacco
Posted - 2011.08.01 20:03:00 - [13]
 

Edited by: Kush Monster on 01/08/2011 20:04:19
maelstrom is a **** storm... they are slow, cumbersome, poor defense capabilities, ****ty cap.

I've lost two of them with bil + ship fittings.

Then I went to the mach. HOLY S H I T B A L L S! That thing is crazy awesome.

TEARS through the opposition because of its falloff bonus I'm in love <3


Plus for Minmatar space, you should focus on angels and serpentis. Two best ammos work great for them, fusion and phased plamsa, nuff said!

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2011.08.01 20:47:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Coeus Enderas
so a mach is the supreme lvl 4 mission runner?


Mach for active piloting mode, tengu for easy/unprobeable* mode, rattler for AFK mode

The guy above who said he couldn't see how to get much DPS out of a mach, I don't know what to say.


*practically unprobeable

grumpyguts1
Posted - 2011.08.01 21:29:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Malcanis


The guy above who said he couldn't see how to get much DPS out of a mach, I don't know what to say.



I said "much MORE DPS" out of the Mach as apposed to the Maelstrom

Based on below comparison.
Maelstrom - 8 x 1400mm arty's, 4 x gyro's = 10,6k volley, 583 DPS, ROF = 18,2 sec's
Mach - 7 x 1400mm arty's, 4 x gyro's = 10,7 k volley, 665 DPS, ROF = 16 sec's

Maybe I missed something ???? But is the difference worth the isk??

Maken Cheese
Posted - 2011.08.01 22:27:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: grumpyguts1

I said "much MORE DPS" out of the Mach as apposed to the Maelstrom

Based on below comparison.
Maelstrom - 8 x 1400mm arty's, 4 x gyro's = 10,6k volley, 583 DPS, ROF = 18,2 sec's
Mach - 7 x 1400mm arty's, 4 x gyro's = 10,7 k volley, 665 DPS, ROF = 16 sec's

Maybe I missed something ???? But is the difference worth the isk??


The Mach is built for autocannons. Why would you use 1400mm arty on it? That's like using cruise missiles on a Golem... Sure, you can do it, but you're seriously wasting the ship's potential. Fit an afterburner and you can get an easy 600 m/s out of a Mach to close range on targets.

grumpyguts1
Posted - 2011.08.02 03:38:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Maken Cheese
Originally by: grumpyguts1

I said "much MORE DPS" out of the Mach as apposed to the Maelstrom

Based on below comparison.
Maelstrom - 8 x 1400mm arty's, 4 x gyro's = 10,6k volley, 583 DPS, ROF = 18,2 sec's
Mach - 7 x 1400mm arty's, 4 x gyro's = 10,7 k volley, 665 DPS, ROF = 16 sec's

Maybe I missed something ???? But is the difference worth the isk??


The Mach is built for autocannons. Why would you use 1400mm arty on it? That's like using cruise missiles on a Golem... Sure, you can do it, but you're seriously wasting the ship's potential. Fit an afterburner and you can get an easy 600 m/s out of a Mach to close range on targets.


It's bonused for Projectiles, not built for AC's. As to why, I dual box with a Tengu, so the Tengu knocks off cruisers almost as fast as I can switch screens, I use the drones from the maelstrom to shoot frigs and am 2 volleying bs's with the Arty's.. if I use AC, I will then have to worry about flying around the place to shoot everything. So in EVE it depends what you doing, I need to to destroy BS's as efficiently as I can without playing superman and flying all over the place... and NO putting cruise missiles on a Golem will not achieve the same effect....

Caleidascope
Minmatar
Republic Military School
Posted - 2011.08.02 04:28:00 - [18]
 

Angels tp, so any ship will work.

Guristas jam, any ship will work.

Serpentice damp, any ship will work.

Sansha targeting disruptors, missile ship works better than turret ship.

I don't remember what bloods do.

Anyway. Navy Scorpion is a clear winner. Very Happy

Nimrod Nemesis
Amarr
Royal Amarr Institute
Posted - 2011.08.02 05:38:00 - [19]
 

Edited by: Nimrod Nemesis on 02/08/2011 05:39:11
Originally by: Caleidascope
Angels tp, so any ship will work.

Guristas jam, any ship will work.

Serpentice damp, any ship will work.

Sansha targeting disruptors, missile ship works better than turret ship.

I don't remember what bloods do.

Anyway. Navy Scorpion is a clear winner. Very Happy


Blood neuts.

Navy scorp has enemic dps and a tank that's over-kill for just about any L4. I wouldn't consider it a winner.

Maken Cheese
Posted - 2011.08.02 10:45:00 - [20]
 

Edited by: Maken Cheese on 02/08/2011 10:49:20
Originally by: grumpyguts1
It's bonused for Projectiles, not built for AC's. As to why, I dual box with a Tengu, so the Tengu knocks off cruisers almost as fast as I can switch screens, I use the drones from the maelstrom to shoot frigs and am 2 volleying bs's with the Arty's.. if I use AC, I will then have to worry about flying around the place to shoot everything. So in EVE it depends what you doing, I need to to destroy BS's as efficiently as I can without playing superman and flying all over the place... and NO putting cruise missiles on a Golem will not achieve the same effect....


I didn't say it was bonused for autocannons, I said it was built for them, and it IS built for autocannons in the same way the Golem is built for torps. That's why I used that comparison, I'm talking about wasted potential. You can get 60+ km falloff with a Mach, so no, you don't need to do that much traveling in missions. I'm talking from first hand experience here - an autocannon Mach is my ship of choice. I've tried arty with it, and I can tell you without a doubt that autocannons destroy arty all day long in mission completion times.

With arty, it will take you at least 50 seconds to destroy a battleship and then fire at your next target (assuming you kill the ship in 2 hits - even with perfect skills that won't always happen). With autocannons, I can kill a BS at 20-40 km in 3-5 hits (9-15 seconds) and then I'm shooting at another target. And again, going 600 m/s closes range very quickly if the ship is more than 40 km away (I can hit out to 70 km with my setup, but the damage is reduced with falloff).

Taron Hakard
Posted - 2011.08.05 11:25:00 - [21]
 

AC Maelstrom works if you have T2 guns and can use Barrage L, if you can't then you should be using artilery.

Mavnas
Posted - 2011.08.05 16:05:00 - [22]
 

Shield Mach + Barrage = 8.5 + 104 range. You could travel towards your targets, but they'll probably be dead long before you get far lol.

Panhead4411
Posted - 2011.08.05 17:39:00 - [23]
 

So, w/ my average non-T2 gun skills, here are the dmg's i get between Mach and Mare

With turrets only (since thats the only factor that would be different between both ships)

Mare: 652 DPS, (80k range) Meta 4 Beams, Faction Ammo, 4 T2 heatsinks

Mach: 693 DPS, (33k range) Meta 4 ACs, Faction Ammo, 4 T2 Gyro's

Mare has the slightly better pulse tank (rat specific), neither is cap stable. And faction crystals are a whole lot easier to justify than faction projectile ammo, imho

But to each his own.


 

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