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Imagonem
Black Bag Ops
Posted - 2011.07.31 08:48:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Imagonem on 31/07/2011 08:48:50
Hello.

Two weeks ago moved into c2 with static c4. Now, people are being enthusiastic about what they supposedly make and want me to stay, but I'am not impressed.

4 characters, nightmare, tengu, tengu, basilisk with one tengu switching for noctis after about half an hour.
roughly in good days, 75-100m in loot for that first half hour, so say 150-200m hourly.
200/4=>50m/hour/character, tops( Remove logistic time, pos fuel costs, scanning time, collapse hole time. )

Which is quite worthless given risk/reward compared to say incursions: ~60-70m/hr of vanguard crunching(+lp) ofc, you got abit of hopping around empire hunting the golden eggs.
Lvl4 missions: On par with this not using a to shiny setup running for a standard corp. No wh overhead to.
lvl4 factional warfare mission: Using my own alt, also picking missions: 2xnavy bs for 3-4 hour trip. =>5-600m=>60-80m/hour.
Nullsec: Can't say how its there nowdays.

Try C5 over C4? Could probably get two logis and a scorp/falcon as well as more gank(Average onl ~10 previous highsec bears with 29m sp average, primarly in shield) this seems like more overhead, need caps to get the good spawns, even more risk of running into other wspace inhabitants to flip us belly up; reward: more people per site should probably mean it'll still be no more then 50/m hour/character.

Now. What am I doing wrong? Should I go for actually putting togheter sleeper goo? Should I go for the gasmine sites? yeah... lost; dosent happen often. But realy, help me see the light here: whats the point in a very risky enviroment with a bunch of overhead work for puny(to me) rewards ?



Halthoris
Caldari
Samurai Salvaging
Stellar Defense Alliance
Posted - 2011.07.31 09:39:00 - [2]
 

There are different ways of doing things, but the way your looking at it is in terms of isk/hour once you run the sites. while that isn't a bad way of looking at it, it just means that you have to focus more specifically on how to be more efficient. when I run c4 sites, I dual box it with 2 tengus. sure it is slightly slower, but then I don't have to share the profits. for you, I think what needs to happen is to get everyone into spider tanking tengus, that way all ships are dealing dps, as well as remote repping. As I said above, with the right setup for the tengu, you only need 1 remote rep to tank most of the Anoms in a c4. so a pair of spider tanking tengus at least, and any more just make things run effeciently.

with my small alliance, when we get going, we are running the sites so quickly with 4-6 pilots that one of us has to be a dedicated salvager and just follow behind the fleet.

in terms of loot however, at a c4 level it is less about the ribbons, and more about the battleships. for us, ribbons account for roughly 30-50% of a run, depending on our luck. the rest of the income for the run is from what we call the 'blue loot', the loot that all sleepers drop. because of this, battleships in a c4 level are worth about 7-10m in garanteed loot, with the chance of ribbons from the salvage on top of it.

TLDR; spider tank tengus, and go for the anoms with the most battleships to increase profits.

Stack'em High
Posted - 2011.07.31 10:38:00 - [3]
 

You're not doing anything wrong. The beauty of W space is you open your static C3/4/5/6 and peer in - sometime it's farming sleepers sometimes it's ganking farmers. Sometimes a bit of both. Every day is different. Unlike the monotony of Incursions.

YMMV

Tetragammatron Prime
Posted - 2011.07.31 13:30:00 - [4]
 

Edited by: Tetragammatron Prime on 31/07/2011 13:31:18
My experience was similar with wormholes, I went back to making ~300k lp per hour doing lvl5s.

edit: and for me the hassle of getting tags and selling all the stuff from lp store is worth not having my characters all stuck in a wormhole so I can go pvp with them wherever.

Imagonem
Black Bag Ops
Posted - 2011.07.31 16:19:00 - [5]
 

Thanks for the replies.

There is the kinderegg aspect I must admit, sadly sofar pvp only consists of people warping to their pos near instantly we open a connection.(Suppose they do the same as us, gangbooster/scanner in system using a deep probe to watch for new signatures giving near insta alert something might be coming) Our sole intrusion sofar consisted of a 5 man gang, we played; only got one because of our fail sabre pilot and fail proteus :D

I could probably get our basi & mare pilot into two tengus and spider it, tank feels low to: get about 700ish with one repper from each of the other. What about the neuts? Or should I work cap boosters in on this setup? ^^

So, I can expect 50m/hr on average. I might have come off as abit more bitter then intended in my opening post. I like wspace in its feel; its so much more like the old nullsec, before stations started spawning faster then your average rabbit population.
But when it comes to reality. I got to make real/easier isk because when it comes around to pay 360m*3 every month for plexes and have isk for toys...

Lvl5s are kinda good to, I had to use two chars for thoose(cyno) I could do about 4 in an hour, 400k lp nowdays so about 190m selling to buys, divided by 2 since one character is just sitting there being cyno for 95m, but dear god; the tension everytime you see combats on scanner :P ...wait, I'am in a tengu in wspace, in a ship worth more then a carrier after insurance and I dont worry as much hmm...

My best option might be doing a couple hours of lvl5ing each month, if I can live with the threatlevel, for plex and use whatever is made from wspace for toys.








Comy 1
Ore Mongers
Indecisive Certainty
Posted - 2011.07.31 16:42:00 - [6]
 

Edited by: Comy 1 on 31/07/2011 16:46:41

Personally I see C4s as way worse than C3, and if you have enough people to run escalations efficiently a C5/6 is gonna be superior aswell. In the C3 everything is doable with local tank on a tengu with a setup giving you 4 ballistics, 6 launchers and a target painter which will give you a really nice DPS output against pretty much everything.

When me and 1 friend run PvE in a C3 we score about 220-250mil/h each depending on luck and if we get a few Mag sites in the mix of anomalies. But then we have an alt each, 1 sitting in a cov op cloaked of a WH to listen for jump ins and every now and then scan for a new sig, while the other guys alt is in a noctis salvaging as we go. So you might disqualify my claim of 2 chars. Fact is though that we kinda can't be arsed to run dual compat chars since it's way too much effort when we already bring in enough isk.

As I see it, a C4 isn't worth the hassle, sure Barracks and Command Posts can be nice to grind even with our dual C3 tengu setup without changing any modules, but the other 2 anomaly types are really....blergh....and the harder mag/radar sites in a C4 is nothing I would put my tengu through with the quad safeguards.

Halthoris
Caldari
Samurai Salvaging
Stellar Defense Alliance
Posted - 2011.07.31 19:03:00 - [7]
 

this is the fit that my alliance flies with;

[Tengu, Hal C5 RR]
Damage Control II
Capacitor Power Relay II
Capacitor Power Relay II
Domination Ballistic Control System
Domination Ballistic Control System

Large Shield Extender II
Caldari Navy Photon Scattering Field
Invulnerability Field II
Invulnerability Field II
Target Painter II

Large Shield Transporter II
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile

Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II

Tengu Electronics - Dissolution Sequencer
Tengu Propulsion - Gravitational Capacitor
Tengu Offensive - Accelerated Ejection Bay
Tengu Defensive - Adaptive Shielding
Tengu Engineering - Capacitor Regeneration Matrix

it is cap stable at 63% with the RR on, 94% with it off, and 67k EHP lowest resist is EM at 82%.

if your getting neuted you turn the RR off to keep your cap up to make sure your shield hardners stay on. meanwhile the other tengus are repping you back up. with this setup I get about 1068 tank while being repped with 1 RR. when there are 3 BS's in a C4 anom it gets close to breaking, but I bring down one of the battleships first, so then it is fine. if you are more worried about not enough tank, remove the target painter and add a CN explosive damp field, increases the tank to 1260 with 1 RR on you and gives you an additional 10k EHP.

When I get around to the more advanced fits and topics for my WH handbook, I will be going over this fit and others in more detail.

betty drunkenlord
Posted - 2011.07.31 19:30:00 - [8]
 

tripleboxing c4s easily brings 300m/h + if you do it right with 3 x t3s. tripleboxing c5s with similar setup brings about 400mil/h however you cannot run all anoms without superexpensive tank. i cannot find any other pve activity for 3 accounts which could bring that amount of cash on a consistent basis.

Dr Clean
Posted - 2011.08.03 20:35:00 - [9]
 

I currently dualbox c4 anoms with 2 tengus. If I really focus I can clear 4 sites in just over an hour. Or 6 in 2 hours including salvaging. I usually average about 110 mil a site tags and salvage.

If you are running that slow perhaps switching your ships out would be better. I would suggest 4 Tengus with either spider tank or a nice local tank. When my corp runs 4 Tengus we can clear a Barracks in about 10 minutes and possibly a little faster.

Bloody Wench
Posted - 2011.08.04 10:53:00 - [10]
 

You're doing PI right?
Making a billion ISK in robotics a month is nothing to sneeze at, and more than covers my 3 of 5 PLEX. (6 alts over 5 accounts doing PI)

Exploit the Ladar sites if you want to, there's ok money there..well kinda, but it's quick.

Have you considered investigating the C4 for what its connection is? Living in a C4 with a C2 or 3 Static would be a better option IMO.

I'm (not this toon) currently in a C4 with a C2 outgoing, I think I would prefer a C3 outgoing however, if they exist at all.

MysteryZ
Posted - 2011.08.04 11:05:00 - [11]
 

Just a comparison to C5/C6.

With 5 accounts I can make top end approximately 1.2bn isk an hour in a c5/c6. This is a very specialised (in terms of skill requirements), and expensive - fielding ~10bn ships in a non cyno-jammed, no local system is very risky!! - I've come close to being undone several times!

As a side note its not something you can do all day long mainly because sites in WH space are much more restricted than elsewhere (especially in your home system).

Loraine Gess2
Posted - 2011.08.04 13:40:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Halthoris
this is the fit that my alliance flies with;

[Tengu, Hal C5 RR]
Damage Control II
Capacitor Power Relay II
Capacitor Power Relay II
Domination Ballistic Control System
Domination Ballistic Control System


Large Shield Extender II
Caldari Navy Photon Scattering Field
Invulnerability Field II
Invulnerability Field II
Target Painter II

Large Shield Transporter II
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile

Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II

Tengu Electronics - Dissolution Sequencer
Tengu Propulsion - Gravitational Capacitor
Tengu Offensive - Accelerated Ejection Bay
Tengu Defensive - Adaptive Shielding
Tengu Engineering - Capacitor Regeneration Matrix

it is cap stable at 63% with the RR on, 94% with it off, and 67k EHP lowest resist is EM at 82%.

if your getting neuted you turn the RR off to keep your cap up to make sure your shield hardners stay on. meanwhile the other tengus are repping you back up. with this setup I get about 1068 tank while being repped with 1 RR. when there are 3 BS's in a C4 anom it gets close to breaking, but I bring down one of the battleships first, so then it is fine. if you are more worried about not enough tank, remove the target painter and add a CN explosive damp field, increases the tank to 1260 with 1 RR on you and gives you an additional 10k EHP.

When I get around to the more advanced fits and topics for my WH handbook, I will be going over this fit and others in more detail.


You guys suck

Shadowfoot
Caldari
STRONG TRADING BRO
Posted - 2011.08.05 04:33:00 - [13]
 

What fit will surely work for c3 solo tengu? Anyone have experience and could share fit/strategy please?


 

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