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blankseplocked The trend for Full API - what are you using it for?
 
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Lady Go Diveher
The Independent Troll Society
Posted - 2011.07.29 15:33:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Lady Go Diveher on 29/07/2011 15:33:41
First off, I know what the differences are between limited and full API checks; I'm wondering what specific parts of the full api check corps are finding useful.

Aside from a lot of clueless recruiters, who seem to ask for full api "because.." there seems to be a growing amount of corps and alliances (Pandemic Legion even require it for waffles) who are asking for full api.

Given that the full api allows:

- Recent mails, received and sent - full body
- Account status / time logged on, etc
- All market orders / transaction history / wallet / industry & research jobs
- Complete access to all assets
- Contacts
- Calendars
- Notifications
- If applicable, Full corp access (accounts / assets / wallet/ contacts / ALL kills - losses / members / shareholders ... etc etc) not to mention member tracking, etc. Outpost and POS details.


What, pray tell, warrants this excessively invasive procedure?

I have the horrible feeling most people don't know what they're giving away with a full api ... and most recruiters only ask for it to sound harder to infiltrate, and more serious business. I find it hard to believe any recruiter is spending hours digging through wallet and market orders to try to root out bad spais who can't money launder to their alts properly.

ko4e
Posted - 2011.07.29 15:41:00 - [2]
 

Originally by: Lady Go Diveher
Edited by: Lady Go Diveher on 29/07/2011 15:33:41
First off, I know what the differences are between limited and full API checks; I'm wondering what specific parts of the full api check corps are finding useful.

Aside from a lot of clueless recruiters, who seem to ask for full api "because.." there seems to be a growing amount of corps and alliances (Pandemic Legion even require it for waffles) who are asking for full api.

Given that the full api allows:

- Recent mails, received and sent - full body
- Account status / time logged on, etc
- All market orders / transaction history / wallet / industry & research jobs
- Complete access to all assets
- Contacts
- Calendars
- Notifications
- If applicable, Full corp access (accounts / assets / wallet/ contacts / ALL kills - losses / members / shareholders ... etc etc) not to mention member tracking, etc. Outpost and POS details.


What, pray tell, warrants this excessively invasive procedure?

I have the horrible feeling most people don't know what they're giving away with a full api ... and most recruiters only ask for it to sound harder to infiltrate, and more serious business. I find it hard to believe any recruiter is spending hours digging through wallet and market orders to try to root out bad spais who can't money launder to their alts properly.



i think ccp are trying to address what you said. full api for your own use ( on a mobile for example) and a part api for corps. any corp asking for full api are clueless and just saw the word "full"

Kalen Vox
Veyr
The Veyr Collective
Posted - 2011.07.29 15:41:00 - [3]
 

Mails and contacts strike me as being the most useful to detect infiltrators.

A standard API check is usually only used to look up other characters on an account. That is a mistake which only a very amateur spy would make.

Assaj Ventress
Posted - 2011.07.29 15:42:00 - [4]
 

Edited by: Assaj Ventress on 29/07/2011 15:42:19
http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=848

Mendolus
Aurelius Federation
Posted - 2011.07.29 16:05:00 - [5]
 

Meh... I let the bad ones in just so I can toy with them anyways, Twisted Evil and spread misinformation back, and do my own spying.

Plus if I send ALL the bad ones packing, better ones, or newly educated ones, will just show up the next time.
Some of them I will just string along for a good week or two and attempt to bore them to death with my apparent obliviousness. It is fun to see them squirm. Yes, I may in fact be evil, I admit it.

This whole full API crap is nonsense like the @OP says, anyone who actually needs mails, market orders, et al just to sort out some spies, has already lost the battle against infiltration and meta gaming anyways.

I view it the same way I do computer virus software to protect me, sure I use it, script blockers, ad blocks, system scanners, etc.
But I have no illusions, and keep all my stuff in designated areas on my hard drive so when and if I do get a nasty virus, I simply reformat.

Anyone that needs or thinks they need full API to protect themselves from spies, is obviously not relying enough on their instincts and actual human interaction to determine what is really going on, as 90% of them are obvious within the first ten minutes of conversation, and the ones that aren't, are likely to be smarter than fancy full API information can do for you anyways.

Lady Go Diveher
The Independent Troll Society
Posted - 2011.07.29 16:12:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Kalen Vox
Mails and contacts strike me as being the most useful to detect infiltrators.

A standard API check is usually only used to look up other characters on an account. That is a mistake which only a very amateur spy would make.


This is my problem - even on a full API check a decent spy is going to hide any misgivings, so it only really leaves you with a significant invasion of privacy, IMO.

It seems less like a reasonable security procedure, and more like a control-freak mentality.

Tosser Galore
Posted - 2011.07.29 16:26:00 - [7]
 

Edited by: Tosser Galore on 29/07/2011 16:28:21
It's for pretend internet spaceships businessmen that like to rp "security", it's more of control than anything else, looking at your numbers , oh yeah it might catch the lazy amateur scammers ,corp thieves.

Corps are often built upon bureaucratic bull**** just because people can. This is how you induce control by collecting information.


As anything security related it often instills as false sense of security that often works against the intended purpose in the first place.

Florestan Bronstein
24th Imperial Crusade
Posted - 2011.07.29 16:34:00 - [8]
 

Edited by: Florestan Bronstein on 29/07/2011 16:39:12
Originally by: Mendolus
Anyone that needs or thinks they need full API to protect themselves from spies, is obviously not relying enough on their instincts and actual human interaction to determine what is really going on, as 90% of them are obvious within the first ten minutes of conversation

<insert sth about unknown unknowns>

unless you run some massive (and representative!) spying operation your knowledge of that number is dubious at best (how do you know that you don't know about only 10% of the spies? you can say "90% of the spies I detect are detected during interviews" or "90% of the spies I try to plant in other alliances are detected during interviews" but anything else strikes me as strange...).

(imo it's futile to try keeping anything below FC/director level confidential; and on leadership level your biggest problem is disgruntled long-time members, not planted spies)

StillBorn CrackBaby
Posted - 2011.07.29 16:35:00 - [9]
 

Yeah they ask for it just "because". Well i don't want to be in any corp bad enough to give it away. Just "because"...

Kaahles
Deliverers of Pain
Posted - 2011.07.29 16:45:00 - [10]
 

Yeah full API and recruitment are a total bane these days. Especially with everyone and their grandma having their own little automatic "evaluation" / "spy detection" tools.

"oh look that guy has people in his contact list on high-standing which are on our alliances red-list. SPY SPY SPY"

Nobody cares if you play the friggn game for n-years and made a lot of friends in a lot of places. Sometimes you technically need contact to a spy already present in that corporation/alliance to get the current blue/red lists in order to "adjust" your contact list and possibly even get rid of some old mails. That's so stupid.

Oh and since you can pull the full contact list and ingame mails including the entire mailbody from the API giving it out to a recruiter is a complete deal breaker for me. Limited API? Sure why the hell not. Full API? Well actually a lot of people have my full API it's not that my contact list has any sort of secrets on it or that I use ingame mail for some super secret and/or personal stuff (there exist IM and "normal" e-mails for that sort of stuff. preferably encrypted all the way). But some personal principles apply here. I mean come on I don't give every monkey that asks for it access to every single bit of information about my character and my account short of login/password just because he asks nicely. Screw them.

So what if someday I can't find any corporation to join because of this? It's pretty simple I go play another game. If a community becomes that biased that I can't join their organization without letting my pants down and allow them to examine every single bit about my accounts/characters... well that's a community I don't want to be a part of anymore it's that simple.

Sad thing is... that day is approaching rapidly...

Corina's Bodyguard
Posted - 2011.07.29 16:52:00 - [11]
 

I would put it up to paranoia. They think everyone is out to get them, so they want all the info they can get, even if its unnecessary overkill.

Sader Rykane
Amarr
The Dark Space Initiative
Revival Of The Talocan Empire
Posted - 2011.07.29 17:41:00 - [12]
 

Invasion of privacy?

In a game?

Seriously?

Generals4
Caldari
Posted - 2011.07.29 17:50:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Sader Rykane
Invasion of privacy?

In a game?

Seriously?


EVE is real, never forget that.

Tammarr
Posted - 2011.07.29 17:56:00 - [14]
 

full api.

looking at contracts, wallet journal, contacts, receivers/subject of mails.

nowdays we just ask for it because if you part with it, we know you got nothing to hide or its hidden to good so we dont even make a check beyond 'is this a full api' :P
...that and we also realized: screw it, we already dont mention any backup, caps, or other sensitive information on public corp comms, just in private/group convos.


Mutnin
Amarr
Mutineers
Posted - 2011.07.29 17:56:00 - [15]
 

Edited by: Mutnin on 29/07/2011 17:59:41

I would never give anyone, I don't care who they are or what corp my full API. Hell I will only give out my limited API to basic needed apps like evemon or eft.

It's pretty sad that even once useful sites like (eveeye.com) have jumped into the API trend, requiring you to enter a limited API just to use their site. (first time I saw this was the last time I used their site)

When it comes to corps/alliances, anyone wants my full api to join one, then they can F right off far as I care. Especially after I think it was PL if I'm not mistaken whom was buying up API's for who knows what reason about a year or so ago.

Wyke Mossari
Gallente
Posted - 2011.07.29 17:59:00 - [16]
 


Have you considered it is not for use when you join but for use as a source of intelligence after you leave and move on.


Mendolus
Aurelius Federation
Posted - 2011.07.29 18:00:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Florestan Bronstein
Edited by: Florestan Bronstein on 29/07/2011 16:39:12
Originally by: Mendolus
Anyone that needs or thinks they need full API to protect themselves from spies, is obviously not relying enough on their instincts and actual human interaction to determine what is really going on, as 90% of them are obvious within the first ten minutes of conversation

<insert sth about unknown unknowns>

unless you run some massive (and representative!) spying operation your knowledge of that number is dubious at best (how do you know that you don't know about only 10% of the spies? you can say "90% of the spies I detect are detected during interviews" or "90% of the spies I try to plant in other alliances are detected during interviews" but anything else strikes me as strange...).

(imo it's futile to try keeping anything below FC/director level confidential; and on leadership level your biggest problem is disgruntled long-time members, not planted spies)


It wasn't meant to be exact figure, was just making a point. Human interaction is better than all the piles of statistics in the world. Unless of course, you view humans as statistics to begin with, then we're getting somewhere.

Tron Flux
Caldari
Midnite Madness
Posted - 2011.07.29 21:05:00 - [18]
 

My secret to being a super awesme spy is to tell everyone I meet that I'm a spy, but not to tell anyone else a spy, and then offer them 1million isk for the location of their poses.

You do this enough, and people think you're just a clown, and then let you into the Corp just for the lol's. And then you turn out to be a spy for real. It's pretty epic. Or it would be except that it doesn't work.

Nimrod Nemesis
Amarr
Royal Amarr Institute
Posted - 2011.07.29 21:19:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Mendolus
Meh... I let the bad ones in just so I can toy with them anyways, Twisted Evil and spread misinformation back, and do my own spying.

Plus if I send ALL the bad ones packing, better ones, or newly educated ones, will just show up the next time.
Some of them I will just string along for a good week or two and attempt to bore them to death with my apparent obliviousness. It is fun to see them squirm. Yes, I may in fact be evil, I admit it.

This whole full API crap is nonsense like the @OP says, anyone who actually needs mails, market orders, et al just to sort out some spies, has already lost the battle against infiltration and meta gaming anyways.

I view it the same way I do computer virus software to protect me, sure I use it, script blockers, ad blocks, system scanners, etc.
But I have no illusions, and keep all my stuff in designated areas on my hard drive so when and if I do get a nasty virus, I simply reformat.

Anyone that needs or thinks they need full API to protect themselves from spies, is obviously not relying enough on their instincts and actual human interaction to determine what is really going on, as 90% of them are obvious within the first ten minutes of conversation, and the ones that aren't, are likely to be smarter than fancy full API information can do for you anyways.


Implying anyone bothers to spy on Eternal Evocations. Laughing

Lady Go Diveher
The Independent Troll Society
Posted - 2011.07.29 21:28:00 - [20]
 

Well, then it kinda goes how I think it does, unless someone comes up with some magical way it helps that just isn't documented anywhere.

Personally, I don't even ask for a limited API from people I recruit. I strongly believe that over-reliance on "quantitative" checks is going to mask the "qualitative".

In short, I guess I'd just make a determination of the person based on a conversation over voice ... and would prefer that to be the way people see me.

Given the amount of social problems Eve players have in general, I'd never give out my full API.

Jack Freely
Merchants Exports
Rising Phoenix Syndicate
Posted - 2011.07.29 21:40:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Kaahles
"oh look that guy has people in his contact list on high-standing which are on our alliances red-list. SPY SPY SPY"

Nobody cares if you play the friggn game for n-years and made a lot of friends in a lot of places. Sometimes you technically need contact to a spy already present in that corporation/alliance to get the current blue/red lists in order to "adjust" your contact list and possibly even get rid of some old mails. That's so stupid.


If you have old friends then why not play with them???????

If you have X amount of friends in other groups that are red to the group you are applying to then why the hell are you applying to them in the first place???

Dude, just admit that you are upset that you are trying to spy on a group and they don't like you.

Gwenywell Shumuku
Posted - 2011.07.29 22:14:00 - [22]
 

Edited by: Gwenywell Shumuku on 29/07/2011 22:15:27
Originally by: Jack Freely
Originally by: Kaahles
"oh look that guy has people in his contact list on high-standing which are on our alliances red-list. SPY SPY SPY"

Nobody cares if you play the friggn game for n-years and made a lot of friends in a lot of places. Sometimes you technically need contact to a spy already present in that corporation/alliance to get the current blue/red lists in order to "adjust" your contact list and possibly even get rid of some old mails. That's so stupid.


If you have old friends then why not play with them???????

If you have X amount of friends in other groups that are red to the group you are applying to then why the hell are you applying to them in the first place???

Dude, just admit that you are upset that you are trying to spy on a group and they don't like you.


You must be one of the recruiting monkeys who think fullapi=safety. lol at you, you are so easy to play.

Ever thought that maybe after playing for 7 years one knows basically ppl all over eve? In all kind of corps/alliances? They moved on, you can't join them all as they are in different ones...

And, btw, if you are in contact with them after 7 years, well, then you like them for what they are in Rl, not what they do in EVE...Rolling Eyes

Mendolus
Aurelius Federation
Posted - 2011.07.29 22:56:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Nimrod Nemesis
Implying anyone bothers to spy on Eternal Evocations. Laughing


You do realize most of them are not there for political gains, but to surf for theft targets, right?
I mean, you are playing the same game as me, no?

Maybe you're just really that out of touch cuz I've been filtering out corporate thieves for years in more than one alliance, Laughing


 

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