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Melchiades Seti
Posted - 2011.07.24 20:30:00 - [1]
 

I chanced to "show info" on a star one day. The game, so rich in detail, had many facts about the sun, including its age. It said 67 billion years. Odd, since the guy who plays me (and holds a certain physical resemblance to me) lives in a universe estimated to be only about 15-16 billion years old. I looked at some more stars. Some were over 350 billion years old! This means I live in a time hundreds of billions of years later than the person who plays me. Why haven't I evolved past the need for toes? I should be many, many times farther evolved than he is beyond an amoeba.
Something on which to think in my travels amongst the stars.

Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
Posted - 2011.07.24 20:39:00 - [2]
 

You would know the answer to your question if you just paid a slight bit of attention to your robe-clad neighbours.

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2011.07.24 20:43:00 - [3]
 

Edited by: Akita T on 24/07/2011 20:44:19

Canonically, EVE is only around 10k years in the future Wink
Then again, the showinfo is bonkers.

P.S. The "EVE wormhole" could have been a transdimensional wormhole into a much, MUCH older universe Twisted Evil

dexington
Caldari
Baconoration
Posted - 2011.07.24 20:59:00 - [4]
 

you know we are created in the image of god, maybe feet with toes is the highest form of evolution :)

Meryl SinGarda
Caldari
Belligerent Underpayed Tactical Team
Posted - 2011.07.24 21:11:00 - [5]
 

Edited by: Meryl SinGarda on 24/07/2011 21:23:43

I see this a lot, people constantly confusing Universe and Galaxy.

What our characters live within is the New Eden or "EVE" galaxy.

That galaxy exists in THE Universe.

And if the Universe or "a" Universe is infinite, then I would begin to wonder just how old it really is, or if it can even be measured with time.

But, judging from your post, I would think that you meant galaxy, like a lot of the other people that I see confusing these two words.

Speaking of galaxies, I would crawl through a million wartargets, pirates, Sansha slaves and electromagnetic clouds to be able to fly into the Milky Way Galaxy.

Originally by: dexington
you know we are created in the image of god, maybe feet with toes is the highest form of evolution :)


Also, if this is true, who's image was used in the creation of the eventual extraterrestrials we'll most likely come in contact with?

That is, if, any extraterrestrials we find out there resemble something that the human mind can actually comprehend.

dexington
Caldari
Baconoration
Posted - 2011.07.24 21:24:00 - [6]
 

Edited by: dexington on 24/07/2011 21:27:27
Originally by: Meryl SinGarda
And if the Universe or "a" Universe is infinite, then I would begin to wonder just how old it really is, or if it can even be measured with time.


Age of the universe

Meryl SinGarda
Caldari
Belligerent Underpayed Tactical Team
Posted - 2011.07.24 21:25:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: dexington
Originally by: Meryl SinGarda
And if the Universe or "a" Universe is infinite, then I would begin to wonder just how old it really is, or if it can even be measured with time.


Age of the universe


Bad request.

And all of these things are theories. Scientists are saying now that they're not even sure if the "Big Bang" is the right answer.

Take your wikipedia and shove it.

Victoria Arnolles
Posted - 2011.07.24 21:26:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Meryl SinGarda
I see this a lot, people constantly confusing Universe and Galaxy.

What our characters live within is the New Eden or "EVE" galaxy.

That galaxy exists in THE Universe.

And if the Universe or "a" Universe is infinite, then I would begin to wonder just how old it really is, or if it can even be measured with time.


The universe we live in is slightly less than 14 billion years old. You can go on all day about other universes or what existed before this universe happened, fact is that the EVE galaxy must be in the same universe as us, since we went there, found exactly the same type of stuff there and could live there. That means stars in the EVE galaxy, just like all other stars in all other galaxies in our universe cannot be older than 14 billion years (even less than that, since first generation stars wouldn't last that long).

Meryl SinGarda
Caldari
Belligerent Underpayed Tactical Team
Posted - 2011.07.24 21:27:00 - [9]
 

Edited by: Meryl SinGarda on 24/07/2011 21:29:12
Originally by: Victoria Arnolles
Originally by: Meryl SinGarda
I see this a lot, people constantly confusing Universe and Galaxy.

What our characters live within is the New Eden or "EVE" galaxy.

That galaxy exists in THE Universe.

And if the Universe or "a" Universe is infinite, then I would begin to wonder just how old it really is, or if it can even be measured with time.


The universe we live in is slightly less than 14 billion years old. You can go on all day about other universes or what existed before this universe happened, fact is that the EVE galaxy must be in the same universe as us, since we went there, found exactly the same type of stuff there and could live there. That means stars in the EVE galaxy, just like all other stars in all other galaxies in our universe cannot be older than 14 billion years (even less than that, since first generation stars wouldn't last that long).


You use "is" and "cannot" as if these are all solid facts.

Edit: While I am atheist, I have learned never to just accept something without asking more questions. I see people doing this a lot, whether they're religious or not. Stop accepting things as they're fed to you and continue to ask questions.

Victoria Arnolles
Posted - 2011.07.24 21:30:00 - [10]
 

Edited by: Victoria Arnolles on 24/07/2011 21:35:35
Originally by: Meryl SinGarda
And all of these things are theories. Scientists are saying now that they're not even sure if the "Big Bang" is the right answer.


Depends on what question your asking. If it is "where did the part of the universe we can see come from" all evidence points at a tiny point almost 14 billion years ago.

Where did that point come from? Dunno.
Was that point all that existed? Dunno.
Did we come from that point? Absolutely.


Originally by: Meryl SinGarda
You use "is" and "cannot" as if these are all solid facts.


They're as solid facts as you'll ever encounter in science.


Originally by: Meryl SinGarda
I have learned never to just accept something without asking more questions.

*******s. A vast majority of scientists (in fields relevant to this topic) supports the facts I just mentioned. These facts are based on observation and theories based on these facts work beautifully, so there's no reason to question the facts. There are no questions you (or I) could ask which they haven't thought of yet.

Meryl SinGarda
Caldari
Belligerent Underpayed Tactical Team
Posted - 2011.07.24 21:35:00 - [11]
 

Edited by: Meryl SinGarda on 24/07/2011 21:36:37
Originally by: Victoria Arnolles


They're as solid facts as you'll ever encounter in science.


At least right now they are, in the year 2011.

Originally by: Victoria Arnolles

Bullocks. A vast majority of scientists (in fields relevant to this topic) supports the facts I just mentioned. These facts are based on observation and theories based on these facts work beautifully, so there's no reason to question the facts. There are no questions you (or I) could ask which they haven't thought of yet.


Also, if you're not asking questions, then you obviously aren't thinking, are you? Sorry, but I guess I'm one of the few that don't just accept things because a bunch of guys in white coats told me to, or because a guy in a black coat stood atop an altar and read from a book.

dexington
Caldari
Baconoration
Posted - 2011.07.24 21:42:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Meryl SinGarda
Also, if you're not asking questions, then you obviously aren't thinking, are you? Sorry, but I guess I'm one of the few that don't just accept things because a bunch of guys in white coats told me to, or because a guy in a black coat stood atop an altar and read from a book.


You are also one of the people who believe the universe is infinite... you need to go to the library and read a book, you got a lot of catching up to do.

Meryl SinGarda
Caldari
Belligerent Underpayed Tactical Team
Posted - 2011.07.24 21:45:00 - [13]
 

Edited by: Meryl SinGarda on 24/07/2011 21:47:18
Originally by: dexington
Originally by: Meryl SinGarda
Also, if you're not asking questions, then you obviously aren't thinking, are you? Sorry, but I guess I'm one of the few that don't just accept things because a bunch of guys in white coats told me to, or because a guy in a black coat stood atop an altar and read from a book.


You are also one of the people who believe the universe is infinite... you need to go to the library and read a book, you got a lot of catching up to do.


I believe that you've got some reading comprehension to cover. Please, scroll up.

Also, sorry Melchiades Seti. I didn't mean for this to turn into what it is now. Lesson learned, you challenge the beliefs and theories of any person and they'll go all stubborn and blinders on you.

Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
Posted - 2011.07.24 21:46:00 - [14]
 

Edited by: Misanth on 24/07/2011 21:47:26
Originally by: Meryl SinGarda
Edited by: Meryl SinGarda on 24/07/2011 21:36:37
Originally by: Victoria Arnolles


They're as solid facts as you'll ever encounter in science.


At least right now they are, in the year 2011.

Originally by: Victoria Arnolles

Bullocks. A vast majority of scientists (in fields relevant to this topic) supports the facts I just mentioned. These facts are based on observation and theories based on these facts work beautifully, so there's no reason to question the facts. There are no questions you (or I) could ask which they haven't thought of yet.


Also, if you're not asking questions, then you obviously aren't thinking, are you? Sorry, but I guess I'm one of the few that don't just accept things because a bunch of guys in white coats told me to, or because a guy in a black coat stood atop an altar and read from a book.


You should've hooked on my RP response instead of keeping this serious argument..

..but since it's an entertaining topic; let's bring maths and probability in this too, shall we? The odd chance of life springing up out of nowhere, in the Earth-scenario taught by evolutionists, is less likely (pure maths) than aliens or a God or hell even an EVE-gate is.

Big Bang just makes it a whole lot more advanced. And while most alot of theories can't be proven, technicly, like the structure of atom cores etc, we can still see parts of it in microscope - and predict it's structure based on behaviour, by proven facts in other cases. That is quite different from the Big Bang, or hell even life spawning out of volcanoes and frogfishes. There's no facts, and logic speaks for it, it's just a theory as much as anything else. And more appealing to believe in, than aliens or a deity.

So, let's get back to the EVE RP. Being Amarrian the answer to your question is quite simple. Deity ftw, alot more appealing than believing in a low-chance random event, or some random galaxy-travellers. Cool

/me stuffs the hood with tinfoil

Omara Otawan
Posted - 2011.07.24 21:47:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Meryl SinGarda
Sorry, but I guess I'm one of the few that don't just accept things because a bunch of guys in white coats told me to, or because a guy in a black coat stood atop an altar and read from a book.


****ing magnets, how do they work?

Ghoest
Posted - 2011.07.24 21:48:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Melchiades Seti
I chanced to "show info" on a star one day. The game, so rich in detail, had many facts about the sun, including its age. It said 67 billion years. Odd, since the guy who plays me (and holds a certain physical resemblance to me) lives in a universe estimated to be only about 15-16 billion years old. I looked at some more stars. Some were over 350 billion years old! This means I live in a time hundreds of billions of years later than the person who plays me. Why haven't I evolved past the need for toes? I should be many, many times farther evolved than he is beyond an amoeba.
Something on which to think in my travels amongst the stars.


Why wouldnt you have toes?

Youre of the same genetic stock that populates the planets(Dust). And Toes are really handy for moving around over diverse terrain.

Victoria Arnolles
Posted - 2011.07.24 21:49:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: dexington
You are also one of the people who believe the universe is infinite... you need to go to the library and read a book, you got a lot of catching up to do.


She's probably too busy asking questions instead of reading the answers to those questions in books.

A recent one which I quite liked was Stephen Hawking's The Grand Design, it's mainstream and accesible. For a more technical perspective, I can recommend Abraham Loeb's How Did the First Stars and Galaxies Form and for a quite speculative approach Marcus Chown's The Never-Ending Days of Being Dead.

If anyone else has any suggested reading on the subject, I'd love to hear about it :)

Meryl SinGarda
Caldari
Belligerent Underpayed Tactical Team
Posted - 2011.07.24 21:49:00 - [18]
 

Edited by: Meryl SinGarda on 24/07/2011 21:50:28
Originally by: Omara Otawan
Originally by: Meryl SinGarda
Sorry, but I guess I'm one of the few that don't just accept things because a bunch of guys in white coats told me to, or because a guy in a black coat stood atop an altar and read from a book.


****ing magnets, how do they work?


Magnets and something we can only see through a telescope are two entirely different things. Take your old meme and please go back to World of Warcraft or 4chan, whichever came first.

And with that, I leave this argument. The stubbornness of the people arguing here, in this thread, is exactly why it's taking so long to evolve.

dexington
Caldari
Baconoration
Posted - 2011.07.24 21:53:00 - [19]
 

Edited by: dexington on 24/07/2011 21:53:36
Originally by: Meryl SinGarda
Originally by: dexington
You are also one of the people who believe the universe is infinite... you need to go to the library and read a book, you got a lot of catching up to do.


I believe that you've got some reading comprehension to cover. Please, scroll up.


Originally by: Meryl SinGarda
And if the Universe or "a" Universe is infinite, then I would begin to wonder just how old it really is, or if it can even be measured with time.

Meryl SinGarda
Caldari
Belligerent Underpayed Tactical Team
Posted - 2011.07.24 21:54:00 - [20]
 

Edited by: Meryl SinGarda on 24/07/2011 22:24:40

Originally by: dexington
Originally by: Meryl SinGarda
Originally by: dexington
You are also one of the people who believe the universe is infinite... you need to go to the library and read a book, you got a lot of catching up to do.


I believe that you've got some reading comprehension to cover. Please, scroll up.


Originally by: Meryl SinGarda
And if the Universe or "a" Universe is infinite, then I would begin to wonder just how old it really is, or if it can even be measured with time.










Did you miss the part where I said "if."

For crying out loud EVE players.

And because you're next rebuttal will be just as shallow-minded, I believe that everything (involving our/the Universe) exists in theories. You can sit there with your tea and monocle and thump books all day long - and I'm not saying I disagree with everything - but, again, if you simply accept everything, you're as bad as the rest of them. (p.s. I read, among other things involving words)

edit: I also wanted to add this, I apologize if some of what I say comes off as offensive here. All I want to do is challenge people to think without the written word of someone else. Sure, take those words into consideration and also consider that they are exactly what you say - Theories based around facts that fit together beautifully - The Universe is that, but when we stop thinking, stop asking questions and accept everything, we stop living.

I have read that the Universe is no longer infinite, that we are stretched like a rubberband along a timeline of events and I'm not sure I totally agree with a filmstrip idea of the Universe and life as we know it. But I know for sure that I don't agree with mystical deities.

If you believe that you can present me with something really thought provoking, really mind-opening, please, by all means, EVEmail me.

/end

dexington
Caldari
Baconoration
Posted - 2011.07.24 21:56:00 - [21]
 

And what point would there be in assuming the universe is infinite, when we know it's not...

Vain Eldritch
Caldari
State War Academy
Posted - 2011.07.24 21:57:00 - [22]
 

Because my dear, without your toes you'd fall over.

Evolution has the habbit to only remove useless genetic traits (like the desire to join a conservative political party) or self-destructive genetic traits (like the desire join a conser... you get the idea).

Augustus Giovanni
Posted - 2011.07.24 21:58:00 - [23]
 

What environmental pressure would select against toes in EVE?

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2011.07.24 22:05:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Akita T
Edited by: Akita T on 24/07/2011 20:44:19

Canonically, EVE is only around 10k years in the future Wink
Then again, the showinfo is bonkers.

P.S. The "EVE wormhole" could have been a transdimensional wormhole into a much, MUCH older universe Twisted Evil


Given that a number of physical laws* have radically changed in the EVE universe, this is as good an explanation as any.

*All of Newtons Laws of Motion spring to mind immediately

Ingkala
Posted - 2011.07.24 22:14:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Melchiades Seti
Odd, since the guy who plays me (and holds a certain physical resemblance to me) lives in a universe estimated to be only about 15-16 billion years old.


The universe is estimated to be about 13.7 billion years old.

Melchiades Seti
Posted - 2011.07.24 22:31:00 - [26]
 

Actually I've enjoyed reading the entire thread. :)

Maybe toes will be more finger-like. Imagine the possibilities.

Whichever, I hope whatever replaces them can't get gout! That doesn't belong in any galaxy or universe.

Meryl SinGarda
Caldari
Belligerent Underpayed Tactical Team
Posted - 2011.07.24 22:33:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: Melchiades Seti
Actually I've enjoyed reading the entire thread. :)

Maybe toes will be more finger-like. Imagine the possibilities.

Whichever, I hope whatever replaces them can't get gout! That doesn't belong in any galaxy or universe.


Floating brains, that's it :P

dexington
Caldari
Baconoration
Posted - 2011.07.24 22:39:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Melchiades Seti
Maybe toes will be more finger-like. Imagine the possibilities.


would be fun if we evolved back into monkeys, that would just prove it was bad idea to leave the trees in the first place :)

Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
Posted - 2011.07.24 22:42:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: dexington
Originally by: Melchiades Seti
Maybe toes will be more finger-like. Imagine the possibilities.


would be fun if we evolved back into monkeys, that would just prove it was bad idea to leave the trees in the first place :)


Fish, we were fish-frogs man!

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2011.07.24 22:45:00 - [30]
 

Because otherwise you'd fall over.


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