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blankseplocked Incarna - No new players for CCP?
 
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Kin Netics
Posted - 2011.07.25 18:23:00 - [91]
 

@ the OP

ITS FREAKING SUMMER BRO!!!!!! I AM NOT GOING TO PLAY EVE AND GO JUMP IN A POOL CYA!!!!!!!!!


ps my sub isn't canceled I'm just enjoying the sun

pss you should too :)

Creegz Brae
Gallente
Megapol
OUTER SPACE ASSHOLES
Posted - 2011.07.25 19:33:00 - [92]
 

A lot of people vie for the simplicity of other MMO's hence why EVE isn't as popular. They jump in because it looks good, and has a lot of cool stuff, but when they have trouble with the learning curve, then most people drop it because there's a lot of information and reading involved in understanding the game. This game caters to a more specific group of players. The ones who don't mind running numbers and reading up on what works with what and why.

Cipher Jones
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.07.25 19:41:00 - [93]
 

Edited by: Cipher Jones on 25/07/2011 19:41:56
Originally by: G 0 D
Edited by: G 0 D on 25/07/2011 18:09:02
Originally by: Cipher Jones
Quote:
I understand this well. I also understand CCP's CEO stated they don't listen to what players say, but what they do.


Your reading comprehension is literally less than grade school level if that's what you inferred.

I honestly don't think you are trolling and really just think you are "right".

Which is exactly why my sons video game allowance is based on his GPA.


Funny, a response like that is what I would expect from someone in grade school.

You need to question your own reading comprehension.


I told you before and I'll say it again, if you show me where

Quote:
I also understand CCP's CEO stated they don't listen to what players say, but what they do.


is stated by CCP I would contract you a PLEX. You can't. Have a nice day.

G 0 D
Posted - 2011.07.25 20:15:00 - [94]
 

Originally by: Cipher Jones
Edited by: Cipher Jones on 25/07/2011 19:41:56
Originally by: G 0 D
Edited by: G 0 D on 25/07/2011 18:09:02
Originally by: Cipher Jones
Quote:
I understand this well. I also understand CCP's CEO stated they don't listen to what players say, but what they do.


Your reading comprehension is literally less than grade school level if that's what you inferred.

I honestly don't think you are trolling and really just think you are "right".

Which is exactly why my sons video game allowance is based on his GPA.


Funny, a response like that is what I would expect from someone in grade school.

You need to question your own reading comprehension.


I told you before and I'll say it again, if you show me where

Quote:
I also understand CCP's CEO stated they don't listen to what players say, but what they do.


is stated by CCP I would contract you a PLEX. You can't. Have a nice day.


http://www.evenews24.com/2011/06/25/ccp-hilmar-global-email-shows-the-reasoning-behind-ccp-zulu-devblog/

Look at the fifth paragraph of the email, the one starting with "Currently we are seeing _very predictable feedback..."

I will not post the email here because I do not want to get banned again.

dexington
Caldari
Baconoration
Posted - 2011.07.25 20:56:00 - [95]
 

Originally by: CCP Hilmar
Currently we are seeing _very predictable feedback_ on what we are doing. Having the perspective of having done this for a decade, I can tell you that this is one of the moments where we look at what our players do and less of what they say. Innovation takes time to set in and the predictable reaction is always to resist change.


Like it or not the man has a point...

First of all CCP has a lot more experience with marketing and developing their product then you will probably ever have, it would be reasonable to assume they have a better understand what is the best general strategy for eve, even if that mean making the not so popular choices.

You don't like CQ/WiS or the NeX store... CCP is not 5 programmers without real jobs developing eve in their free time, with nothing better to do then fulfilling your every wish. At the end of the day CCP is a company, and the need to make money and make sure they have a profitable product.

And stop the whining about CCP using "eve money" to fund WoD and dust, it would be stupid to not to invest what profit they make of eve in other projects. Throwing all your money in one project does not mean that you will see a proportional increase in value and quality, using the profit to invest in other project will in the long run help to make eve more financial secure, and opens the possibility of using profits from those projects to fund new development in eve.

Mallak Azaria
Three 6 MaFiA
KRYSIS.
Posted - 2011.07.25 21:12:00 - [96]
 

Server population may have gone down (it hasn't really though), but there's plenty of new players in the mix now.

OP is a terrible troll.

Sobaan Tuan
Posted - 2011.07.25 21:18:00 - [97]
 

Originally by: Booby Trap
Originally by: Important Person
blah blah, Mt is great, Incarna is great, blah blah, it will attract new players


1- You are trolling right? A NEW PLAYER would have to buy plex with cash and convert them to isk. Not free. But according to you NEX items are for older players so therefore have zero bearing on a new players decision to subscribe. Despite this you still believe that NEX will bring new players to Eve.

2- Sorry for the confusion. I should have said MT items are for NEW PLAYERS who want to spend rl cash on overpriced virtual goods or older players with billions of Isk. Your 'friend' won't use his Isk to buy a Monocle before he buys a Palladin will he? So, no those are not the older players I'm talking about.

3- No, I'm saying that it won't help with their retention. First impressions count.

4- Again there seems to be some confusion. I asked how overpriced items will bring new players to Eve and you said 'it won't because it's not for them'. Which is pretty much agreeing with me. Also, my comment about you always bringing up MT is because you created an alt to defend the NEX and its pricing and have been making lots of pro MT posts. You created an alt to defend MT.

It's cool if you think that the pricing in the NEX store is ok and think that Incarna and MT will bring NEW PLAYERS to Eve but It's been nearly a month since it was deployed and all the facts prove you wrong.

Show me on the graph where these new players are.


you're blatantly wrong and ignorant

Booby Trap
Posted - 2011.07.25 21:50:00 - [98]
 

Originally by: Sobaan Tuan
Originally by: Booby Trap
Originally by: Important Person
blah blah, Mt is great, Incarna is great, blah blah, it will attract new players


1- You are trolling right? A NEW PLAYER would have to buy plex with cash and convert them to isk. Not free. But according to you NEX items are for older players so therefore have zero bearing on a new players decision to subscribe. Despite this you still believe that NEX will bring new players to Eve.

2- Sorry for the confusion. I should have said MT items are for NEW PLAYERS who want to spend rl cash on overpriced virtual goods or older players with billions of Isk. Your 'friend' won't use his Isk to buy a Monocle before he buys a Palladin will he? So, no those are not the older players I'm talking about.

3- No, I'm saying that it won't help with their retention. First impressions count.

4- Again there seems to be some confusion. I asked how overpriced items will bring new players to Eve and you said 'it won't because it's not for them'. Which is pretty much agreeing with me. Also, my comment about you always bringing up MT is because you created an alt to defend the NEX and its pricing and have been making lots of pro MT posts. You created an alt to defend MT.

It's cool if you think that the pricing in the NEX store is ok and think that Incarna and MT will bring NEW PLAYERS to Eve but It's been nearly a month since it was deployed and all the facts prove you wrong.

Show me on the graph where these new players are.


you're blatantly wrong and ignorant


Thanks for the feedback. I'm interested in the minority view that 'Incarna was a sucessful expansion'. The opinions of experts with vast experience like yourself are valid to me. Could you please elaborate on what parts of my post which, in your well informed opinion, are wrong and ignorant?

Abriael VonRosen
Caldari
Posted - 2011.07.25 21:59:00 - [99]
 

Edited by: Abriael VonRosen on 25/07/2011 22:03:01
Originally by: Booby Trap

Show me on the graph where these new players are.


I'll show you. You see that part in which population is rather stable, on a 8 years old game?

That means that people leave (like in all older games), and new players come in to replace them. There aren't many other MMORPGs out there that manage that at the same age EVE has.

Bringing in new players doesn't necessarily equate to increasing overall population.

MaiLina KaTar
Posted - 2011.07.25 21:59:00 - [100]
 

Edited by: MaiLina KaTar on 25/07/2011 22:02:45
Originally by: dexington
First of all CCP has a lot more experience with marketing and developing their product then you will probably ever have, it would be reasonable to assume they have a better understand what is the best general strategy for eve, even if that mean making the not so popular choices.

You don't like CQ/WiS or the NeX store... CCP is not 5 programmers without real jobs developing eve in their free time, with nothing better to do then fulfilling your every wish. At the end of the day CCP is a company, and the need to make money and make sure they have a profitable product.

And stop the whining about CCP using "eve money" to fund WoD and dust, it would be stupid to not to invest what profit they make of eve in other projects. Throwing all your money in one project does not mean that you will see a proportional increase in value and quality, using the profit to invest in other project will in the long run help to make eve more financial secure, and opens the possibility of using profits from those projects to fund new development in eve.

You make money by improving your game. Incarna didn't improve the game at all.

In fact what it did was introduce a whole bunch of issues that have yet to be solved, while offering no enhancement to gameplay whatsoever. Everything we can do in CQ worked faster and with less hardware strain through the old hangar view. They took away features and replaced it with non-content.

You can't spin this. There are less players online because people and their alt accounts don't appreciate the non-expansion that is Incarna.

Terminator 2
Posted - 2011.07.25 22:02:00 - [101]
 

It is really sad how things are going down with EVE...

Since the introduction of NEX and Aurum many people i know quit the game.
Many are heading over to Perpetuum Online.

It is mainly the bad communication and ignorance that we are facing. People feel CCP should have given a proper apology. Since that time passed the population of EVE seems to be on its way out...

Abriael VonRosen
Caldari
Posted - 2011.07.25 22:07:00 - [102]
 

Originally by: MaiLina KaTar

You make money by improving your game. Incarna didn't improve the game at all.
In fact what it did was introduce a whole bunch of issues that have yet to be solved, while offering no enhancement to gameplay whatsoever. Everything we can do in CQ worked faster and with less hardware strain through the old hangar view. They took away features and replaced it with non-content.

You can't spin this. There are less players online because people and their alt accounts don't appreciate the non-expansion that is Incarna.


Improvement is subjective. incarna for sure improved the game for those that felt that a little portrait ignored in the corner of a screen was too impersonal for an hedonistic experience like all MMORPG are. I'm one of those, in fact.

To many people, in MMORPG, connection with their character and immersion are important factors. Incarna improves both.

MaiLina KaTar
Posted - 2011.07.25 22:10:00 - [103]
 

Originally by: Terminator 2
It is really sad how things are going down with EVE...

Since the introduction of NEX and Aurum many people i know quit the game.
Many are heading over to Perpetuum Online.

It is mainly the bad communication and ignorance that we are facing. People feel CCP should have given a proper apology. Since that time passed the population of EVE seems to be on its way out...

No no no.

You people need to get the underlying truth here.

People might say they're leaving for lack of comms or whatever. However, all these things wouldn't matter jack**** if the gameplay would make up for it. The problem is: it doesn't. And that is because CCP are pumping too much money into whatever shenanigans their management thinks is the next big thing and not enough money into making the core product as good as it can be.

This is why WoW, SC2, etc are making so much money. Blizzard understood what gamers want: Great games.

Players are leaving because Eve's gameplay isn't being improved at the pace and with the professionalism it needs to be.

Mallak Azaria
Three 6 MaFiA
KRYSIS.
Posted - 2011.07.25 22:13:00 - [104]
 

Originally by: Terminator 2

Many are heading over to Perpetuum Online.


It's ironic how people leave a supposedly terrible game for a terrible game.

Abriael VonRosen
Caldari
Posted - 2011.07.25 22:16:00 - [105]
 

Originally by: Mallak Azaria

It's ironic how people leave a supposedly terrible game for a terrible game.


Oh, people do it all the time in this market. It's called boredom and after 8 years there tends to be a lot of it. The fact that this game has a pretty stable population despite that is in fact the pretty clear evidence that the expansion did indeed bring in new players.

baltec1
Posted - 2011.07.25 22:21:00 - [106]
 

Welcome to the yearly summer slowdown.

MaiLina KaTar
Posted - 2011.07.25 22:26:00 - [107]
 

Edited by: MaiLina KaTar on 25/07/2011 22:27:04
Originally by: Abriael VonRosen
Originally by: Mallak Azaria

It's ironic how people leave a supposedly terrible game for a terrible game.


Oh, people do it all the time in this market. It's called boredom and after 8 years there tends to be a lot of it. The fact that this game has a pretty stable population despite that is in fact the pretty clear evidence that the expansion did indeed bring in new players.

Not true. StarCraft was huge until SC2 came out. People still play it. It's 12 years old and wasn't even subscription based.

Great games attract people. People leave games when they suck or when they start to suck. Eve is starting to suck, because it's core gameplay is stagnant and not enough is being done to bring it up to spec.

Abriael VonRosen
Caldari
Posted - 2011.07.25 22:32:00 - [108]
 

Originally by: MaiLina KaTar
Edited by: MaiLina KaTar on 25/07/2011 22:27:04
Originally by: Abriael VonRosen
Originally by: Mallak Azaria

It's ironic how people leave a supposedly terrible game for a terrible game.


Oh, people do it all the time in this market. It's called boredom and after 8 years there tends to be a lot of it. The fact that this game has a pretty stable population despite that is in fact the pretty clear evidence that the expansion did indeed bring in new players.

Not true. StarCraft was huge until SC2 came out. People still play it. It's 12 years old and wasn't even subscription based.

Great games attract people. People leave games when they suck or when they start to suck. Eve is starting to suck, because it's core gameplay is stagnant and not enough is being done to bring it up to spec.


1: Starcraft = Not a MMORPG. Comparing apples to oranges = bad.
2: Starcraft is indeed not subscription based. That means that people will be LESS likely to leave because they're also playing newer games. Costs them nothing to come back and play after a while. This argument of yours actually works against you.
3: Starcraft is ultimately an exception in the gaming market. The fact that EVE doesn't beat Starcraft doesn't make it an unsuccessful game.

People leave MMORPGs all the time. It's not a matter of sucking. It's simply a matter that new MMORPGs are released all the time.

The fact that despite this EVE population remains rather stable is an undeniable proof that new players are coming in. Not many ways to spin this.

dexington
Caldari
Baconoration
Posted - 2011.07.25 22:33:00 - [109]
 

Originally by: MaiLina KaTar

You make money by improving your game. Incarna didn't improve the game at all.

In fact what it did was introduce a whole bunch of issues that have yet to be solved, while offering no enhancement to gameplay whatsoever. Everything we can do in CQ worked faster and with less hardware strain through the old hangar view. They took away features and replaced it with non-content.

You can't spin this. There are less players online because people and their alt accounts don't appreciate the non-expansion that is Incarna.


I think CQ and WiS when it's ready are big improvements, but that is very much personal taste. The winter expansion that should be focused on 0.0, is not going to have any major impact on my eve experience, but it's still improving the game.

It's easy to say that there are less people online because of incarna, but any number of expansions could/would have resulted in a drop in players. Incarna and the NeX store fail probably was the worst case scenario, but that don't mean that anything else would have been a massive success.

MaiLina KaTar
Posted - 2011.07.25 22:43:00 - [110]
 

Edited by: MaiLina KaTar on 25/07/2011 22:55:45
Edited by: MaiLina KaTar on 25/07/2011 22:45:22
Originally by: Abriael VonRosen
Originally by: MaiLina KaTar
Edited by: MaiLina KaTar on 25/07/2011 22:27:04
Originally by: Abriael VonRosen
Originally by: Mallak Azaria

It's ironic how people leave a supposedly terrible game for a terrible game.


Oh, people do it all the time in this market. It's called boredom and after 8 years there tends to be a lot of it. The fact that this game has a pretty stable population despite that is in fact the pretty clear evidence that the expansion did indeed bring in new players.

Not true. StarCraft was huge until SC2 came out. People still play it. It's 12 years old and wasn't even subscription based.

Great games attract people. People leave games when they suck or when they start to suck. Eve is starting to suck, because it's core gameplay is stagnant and not enough is being done to bring it up to spec.


1: Starcraft = Not a MMORPG. Comparing apples to oranges = bad.
2: Starcraft is indeed not subscription based. That means that people will be LESS likely to leave because they're also playing newer games. Costs them nothing to come back and play after a while. This argument of yours actually works against you.
3: Starcraft is ultimately an exception in the gaming market. The fact that EVE doesn't beat Starcraft doesn't make it an unsuccessful game.

People leave MMORPGs all the time. It's not a matter of sucking. It's simply a matter that new MMORPGs are released all the time.

The fact that despite this EVE population remains rather stable is an undeniable proof that new players are coming in. Not many ways to spin this.

Replace SC with WoW. Same thing. Also, pop is not stable. Look at the graphs. Major expansions to Eve usually trigger a spike in activity. Incarna did not. go figure. If you'd subtract alt-account inflation due to measures like "PLEX for friend" it would look even more grim. You can't explain this away with player fluctuation.

Starcraft isn't an exception. It's an example. The game shows what happens when you make great games and improve them in a way that your playerbase appreciates. It didn't have the bonus of increased commitment due to paid subscriptions and was technically far behind the competition, yet it still enjoyed more success online than most MMOGs and raked in million after million for Blizzard.

Originally by: dexington
I think CQ and WiS when it's ready are big improvements, but that is very much personal taste. The winter expansion that should be focused on 0.0, is not going to have any major impact on my eve experience, but it's still improving the game.

It's easy to say that there are less people online because of incarna, but any number of expansions could/would have resulted in a drop in players. Incarna and the NeX store fail probably was the worst case scenario, but that don't mean that anything else would have been a massive success.

That winter expansion, all of the stuff that they say they're going to do, should actually have been implemented a long time ago. The fact that they're only now getting around to maybe actually do it is nothing but a big joke and part of the reason why we don't see subs going up as much as we'd like.

Nex didn't have all that much to do with it. Seriously. Truth is, actual gamers would give a flying **** about Nex and whatever Hilmar blabbers on about if the game of Eve (you know... the blowing **** up part) was as great as it should be. If it was, people wouldn't even take the time to read all that ****. The fact that they do just shows that the game isn't keeping them hooked. And that's because you have stuff like ridiculously imbalanced ships floating around for months on end and not even a proper concept in sight on how to fix them (just one example).

Abriael VonRosen
Caldari
Posted - 2011.07.25 22:54:00 - [111]
 

Edited by: Abriael VonRosen on 25/07/2011 22:55:29
Originally by: MaiLina KaTar

Replace SC with WoW. Same thing. Also, pop is not stable. Look at the graphs. Major expansions to Eve usually trigger a spike in activity. Incarna did not. go figure. If you'd subtract alt-account inflation due to measures like "PLEX for friend" it would look even more grim. You can't explain this away with player fluctuation.

Starcraft isn't an exception. It's an example. The game shows what happens when you make great games and improve them in a way that your playerbase appreciates. It didn't have the bonus of increased commitment due to paid subscriptions, yet it still enjoyed more success online than most MMOGs.


Your "examples" are indeed exceptions. You cherry pick two of the most successful games of the last twenty years. Not being AS successful as them doesn't make a game (and a niche, unforgiving one at that) unsuccessful. Besides, WoW isn't even near to the 8 years mark yet. We'll see how it'll have aged by then.

You don't seem to know much about marketing or this market in general, by the way, having an "increased commitment" due to paid subscription is a commercial disadvantage for a MMORPG, not an advantage.

Also, most of the other eve expansions didn't come out in the summer, in which, guess what? The server population normally goes down in ALL MMORPGs.
Despite that, population is rather stable, that shows quite clearly that the expansion did bring in new players.

dexington
Caldari
Baconoration
Posted - 2011.07.25 22:58:00 - [112]
 

Originally by: MaiLina KaTar
Major expansions to Eve usually trigger a spike in activity. Incarna did not. go figure.


Incarna does have the second worst 30D release statistics, but the numbers for the two previous expansions are not great, and the summer expansion always have lower numbers. It would be more correct to say that incarna followed the already existing trend.

MaiLina KaTar
Posted - 2011.07.25 23:01:00 - [113]
 

Edited by: MaiLina KaTar on 25/07/2011 23:04:58
Originally by: Abriael VonRosen
Your "examples" are indeed exceptions. You cherry pick two of the most successful games of the last twenty years. Not being AS successful as them doesn't make a game (and a niche, unforgiving one at that) unsuccessful. Besides, WoW isn't even near to the 8 years mark yet. We'll see how it'll have aged by then.

No they're not. Cut the bull****, dude. They're both games like all others.

SC is a 2D game, 12 years old, *still running*. Why? Because it has great gameplay.
WoW is the most successful MMOG ever made. Why? Because it has great gameplay.

Incarna is one of many major expansion to Eve Online. Usually these expansions, no mnatter when they were released, spike user activity. Incarna did not. Why? Because it has no great gameplay.

If you see people leave, it's because Incarna did nothing to keep them here. If you can't see this, then by all means stay in your happy little world and don't read the cold hard numbers that are right in front of your face.

Peace.

dexington
Caldari
Baconoration
Posted - 2011.07.25 23:13:00 - [114]
 

Originally by: MaiLina KaTar
Nex didn't have all that much to do with it. Seriously. Truth is, actual gamers would give a flying **** about Nex and whatever Hilmar blabbers on about if the game of Eve (you know... the blowing **** up part) was as great as it should be. If it was, people wouldn't even take the time to read all that ****. The fact that they do just shows that the game isn't keeping them hooked. And that's because you have stuff like ridiculously imbalanced ships floating around for months on end and not even a proper concept in sight on how to fix them (just one example).


I'm not denying that there is lots of stuff CCP can improve on, it's a known "fact" that it's the last 10% that takes 90% of the time when developing software, and it does feel like a lot of the stuff CCP implement is only 90% done. It seems like they are going to be using the next expansions on fixing stuff, which i believe is a good thing. At the moment eve has a lot of almost done features, and it would be better to improve and complete already implemented features then adding more to eve, that was the impression i got from the CCP soundwave interview on eve radio.

dexington
Caldari
Baconoration
Posted - 2011.07.25 23:22:00 - [115]
 

Originally by: MaiLina KaTar
Incarna is one of many major expansion to Eve Online. Usually these expansions, no mnatter when they were released, spike user activity. Incarna did not. Why? Because it has no great gameplay.

If you see people leave, it's because Incarna did nothing to keep them here. If you can't see this, then by all means stay in your happy little world and don't read the cold hard numbers that are right in front of your face.




Expansion Feature +30D +60D +Next Result
RMR/Bloodlines T2s, Carriers -4.6% +7.0% +11.9% Success
Revelations I Invention, rigs +4.3% -0.1% +17.6% Major success
Revelations II Sov changes +0.8% +6.4% -2.6% Failure
Trinity New graphics +2.4% +29.0% +19.5% Major success
Empyrean Age Faction war +0.5% +7.1% -8.5% Major failure
Quantum Rise Nano nerf +18.5% +30.5% +24.7% Major success
Apocrypha Wormholes +11.4% +10.7% +5.7% Success
Dominion Sov changes +13.6% +13.5% +6.4% Success
Tyrannis PI +6.1% +2.6% -0.6% Failure
Incursion Incursions +8.9% +16.8% -5.0% Failure
Incarna CQ -1.8% ??? ??? ???

Both the summer and winter expansions are dropping with around 5% each expansion after quantum rise, there was no reason to believe incarna or any other expansion would have changed that trend.



MaiLina KaTar
Posted - 2011.07.25 23:23:00 - [116]
 

Originally by: dexington
Originally by: MaiLina KaTar
Nex didn't have all that much to do with it. Seriously. Truth is, actual gamers would give a flying **** about Nex and whatever Hilmar blabbers on about if the game of Eve (you know... the blowing **** up part) was as great as it should be. If it was, people wouldn't even take the time to read all that ****. The fact that they do just shows that the game isn't keeping them hooked. And that's because you have stuff like ridiculously imbalanced ships floating around for months on end and not even a proper concept in sight on how to fix them (just one example).


I'm not denying that there is lots of stuff CCP can improve on

You almost hit the mark there. The point is: They should have improved on these things a long time ago. They didn't, because their management isn't focused and doesn't learn from the great examples that companies like Blizzard provide them with.
Quote:
...it's a known "fact" that it's the last 10% that takes 90% of the time when developing software, and it does feel like a lot of the stuff CCP implement is only 90% done. It seems like they are going to be using the next expansions on fixing stuff, which i believe is a good thing. At the moment eve has a lot of almost done features, and it would be better to improve and complete already implemented features then adding more to eve, that was the impression i got from the CCP soundwave interview on eve radio.

You could argue that 90% is nowhere near CCP's usual benchmark, unfotunately. For example: They made all these full-bodied presentations and announcements around captain's quarters, yet they didn't even manage to hit the deadline for all but the minmatar one. And it's running on an engine that is nowhere near as optimized as you would expect from something that they've been working on for 3+ years.

Abriael VonRosen
Caldari
Posted - 2011.07.25 23:28:00 - [117]
 

Edited by: Abriael VonRosen on 25/07/2011 23:29:05
Originally by: MaiLina KaTar

No they're not. Cut the bull****, dude. They're both games like all others.



I know it's irritating to see your doom and gloom arguments dismantled, but you may want to chill :D

Quote:
SC is a 2D game, 12 years old, *still running*. Why? Because it has great gameplay.


EVE Online is *still running* as well. Your point?

Quote:
WoW is the most successful MMOG ever made. Why? Because it has great gameplay.


The reason of WoW's success are much more complex than that. They involve the game being extremely casual friendly and forgiving, not to mention catering to the minimum common denominator of the gaming target.

EVE online, on the other hand, is a very unforgiving, PVP focused game, which makes it much less accessible to casual gamers.

WoW and Starcraft and two of the most successful games in the market. Not being as successful as them doesn't mean being unsuccessful, otherwise the whole gaming market would be a flop.

Quote:
Incarna is one of many major expansion to Eve Online. Usually these expansions, no mnatter when they were released, spike user activity. Incarna did not. Why? Because it has no great gameplay.


Actually all summer expansins didn't perform as well as the rest, which is only natural. As the poster above me said Incarna pretty much follows the common trend.

Quote:
If you see people leave, it's because Incarna did nothing to keep them here. If you can't see this, then by all means stay in your happy little world and don't read the cold hard numbers that are right in front of your face.



If you see people leave, it's mainly because the game is aging and they're growing naturally bored with it, while other new games (many of which are free to play) are released and people want to try them. The sole fact that a number of people are leaving but population is pretty much stable easily proves my point that the expansion did indeed bring in new players.

Gotta love, though, how you contradict yourself
You say that WoW has "great gameplay". But it's population is starting to decrease due to the fact that the game is aging (much earlier than EVE mind you) and people go try other things.
Evidence A: http://www.pcgamer.com/?p=55651

Booby Trap
Posted - 2011.07.25 23:43:00 - [118]
 


Originally by: Abriael VonRosen
Bringing in new players doesn't necessarily equate to increasing overall population.


So by your logic:

5,000* existing customers leaving and 1,000* new players arriving is a success?

You do realise that eve has a problem keeping new players right? It is a known fact.

You are able to read the graph right? The graph which shows no rise in users online after the Incarna expansions? You can see the peaks in people on line after all the other expansions right? And the dip in numbers after Incarna? Maybe you should take off your sunglasses and take another look. Razz

* figures pulled straight out of my rectum.

Abriael VonRosen
Caldari
Posted - 2011.07.26 00:01:00 - [119]
 

Edited by: Abriael VonRosen on 26/07/2011 00:10:11
Edited by: Abriael VonRosen on 26/07/2011 00:02:08
Originally by: Booby Trap

5,000* existing customers leaving and 1,000* new players arriving is a success?


Thanks for specifying that you pulled the numbers out of your rectum. Which you indeed did.

By my logic (or any sensitive logic based on sound marketing facts), if a 8 years old product doesn't bleed users at a very high rate, it's a success.

The fact that no real big dip is visible means that new players are indeed coming. Unless, of course, you think that all the ones writing on the forums that they are quitting are just bull****ting us.

Quote:
You do realise that eve has a problem keeping new players right? It is a known fact.


And that's why Incarna exists. Funny how some people are so resistant to it's implementation.

Quote:

You are able to read the graph right? The graph which shows no rise in users online after the Incarna expansions? You can see the peaks in people on line after all the other expansions right? And the dip in numbers after Incarna? Maybe you should take off your sunglasses and take another look.


The dip in numbers after incarna is very small and can easily be chalked to the usual summer dip, and no way comparable to the nose dives games this old normally take.

oh, by the way, the trend follows almost perfectly that of the latest summer expansion the game had (Tyrannis) as you can see here: http://eve-offline.net/?server=tranquility Big spike and then a dip, exactly like it always happens with expansions of games this old released in the summertime.

Find me a P2P game this old that's able to retain numbers as high as EVE, with this degree of stability, then we'll talk.

Thomas Phillippe
Posted - 2011.07.26 00:11:00 - [120]
 

Edited by: Thomas Phillippe on 26/07/2011 00:15:46
G 0 D,

Didn't you quit the game 5 months ago?

Originally by: G 0 D
Joined eve for a pvp mmo, not barbie doll online. Unsubbing 5 accts.


How long are your subscriptions?

Correction: Apparently you've 'quit' multiple times before. Guess you're one of those that claims he's quitting but never works up the nerves to do it Laughing.


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