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blankseplocked Why do CCP hate cruisers?
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November Corporation
Posted - 2005.02.28 22:29:00 - [31]

Originally by: LockMe
Originally by: DigitalCommunist
Everything smaller than a battleship sucks for the following reasons:

Cruise Missiles.

If you can't outrun them, you need to be able to tank them. Interceptors are useful, they outrun them (heh, on the most part). Battleships can take a few no problem. Cruisers are too slow to outrun, too weak to tank. I am of the opinion that anyone attempting to attack a competent Raven pilot in *anything* smaller than a battleship is a complete and utter moron.

Umm how are these unfair, I mean as hard as you think they hit, I can't tank a raven take a gankageddon, and I can't put out enough damage to kill one before it kills me. and why is it the last 2 fleet battles I have been in with a frig or a cruiser what has killed me a mega pulse not a missle. There is no reason I should fear BS weapons in an inty as realistically they shouldn't hit me at close range as they track too slow. Hence the reason MISSLE slots were added to all tier II BS to counter frigs. Cruise Missles were made to take out Frigs, adn interceptors. In my MOA I can take 3 or 4 volleys of cruise missles from a Raven, as I fit a rocket laucher with defenders on it and take out about half every thime, and same with torps (defender V, and a Ballistic) give it enough hps to kill almost all the torps that come in. And even without the defenders I can take 3 volleys of cruise, and 2 volleys of torps. so the HPs aren't the problem I feel. I am more afraid of frigs in battles than BS as I can run from BS with my MOA as I sit out of scram range (most times), but I can't hit a damn frig to save my life. The medium weapons tracking is worthless, and the rupture, you may as well throw stones at frigs cause you aren't gonna hit them.

As far as the HACs, each one has a specific job. The Munnin can take any (and I mean ANY) Amar Pilot in a BS 1 v 1. I have seen it first hand, and you cna take a ganka geddon wth 8 damage mods in low and all tracking in mid with multifreqs in, and that munnin will kill him, now that same munnin will get tore up by a Raven, Megathron, or Tempest, as they do the right kind of damage. An Eagle is a great at sitting on a warp buble or for fighting Gallente ships, he can stay at range of them, and pound, NO good for 1 on 1 but great support at range (same as Cerebrus), the sacralige is a tackler and no more, and the Zealot is a hell of a damage dealer. Each of these HACs have been designed that if you put a group of inter Racial HACs together they can do some damage.

As for the cruisers themselves. They were pretty good till CCP nerf their speed and agility. Hell my Raven turns and moves better than my MOA. They need to up the speed, agilitly, and maybe some resistences for the cruisers, and for the love of god increase TRACKING for medium weapons.

Finally if you increase the resistences for the cruisers a bit, you would have ot givet eh BSs the same increases to resist, as they are supposed to be more advanced than the cruisers. I am not saying a big incease maybe 10 to 15% would be nice. Just enough to make it last long enough to actually be able to take on 3 or 4 frigs at once, which it should be able to do. I doubt CCP will ever make everyone happy, but at least give each ship a purpose....

You are so wrong on so many things that I cba refuting it all. You're just plain clueless.

Destructive Influence
IT Alliance
Posted - 2005.02.28 22:31:00 - [32]

1) Missles need to be nerfed against smaller targets

2) Cruiser agility needs to be balanced so that it isn't as close to battleship agility as it is now.

Cruisers are 62% more agile then Battleships yet frigates are 314% more agile then Cruisers.

Why won't it be fixed? Probably because people are content owning everything in battleships and interceptors. I myself didn't give a rats ass about cruisers until HAC came out and i saw how unbalanced some aspsects were, mainly just the agility thing, which is huge because it directly affects survivability.

Destructive Influence
IT Alliance
Posted - 2005.02.28 22:42:00 - [33]

Originally by: Rod Blaine
Take away megapulses and their insane tracking/range/damage combo. Take out the uber torp of d00m and uber cruise of instakill. Bring on the EW-with-one-module. And finally, give heavy missiles some lubbin.

I see relatively stronger cruisers coming up here.
No clue wether it's gonna be enough, but you can be sure that you'll have to wait how these things pan out before cruisers get any love of their own I'd guess.

Actually as a HAC pilot i find megapulses at the bottom of my care list! Thanks for blaming megapulse again though, it's quite originalRazz

Agility, missles and NOS screw me over. The first 2 need to be fixed, nos i'm fine with.

Posted - 2005.02.28 23:49:00 - [34]

Edited by: ErrorS on 28/02/2005 23:55:48
What the hell am I talking about?

Cruisers need to hold their own against frigates and destroyers better. Battlecruisers vs. Cruisers are JUST FINE. Battleships vs. Cruisers are a bit insane.. but battlecruisers vs. battleships are perfect.

so how do they do this? Make cruisers harder to hit with BS guns. Simple really.. forget more HP because battlecruisers would become useless. Give more HP to battlecruisers and battleships wont be able to handle them like they're suppose to.

Capt Anderson
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2005.03.01 00:27:00 - [35]

This may have been said already but, here it goes let cruisers do 200m/s/////give more agility, less sig raidius not alot just a little and 1 mid slot more and 1 low more prob fixed. OOOHHHHHH!!!! Leave the rax alone its already uber cruiser.Twisted Evil

Iratus Caelestis
KIA Corp
KIA Alliance
Posted - 2005.03.01 01:11:00 - [36]

extra slots aren't needed.

The agility is the killer as Meridius has covered, purely because you are so slow to warp out that once you engage you are pretty much commited to the death as any BS will kill you before you warp out. The amount of times I've sat watching my thorax/deimos do it's slow ass bank and it's slow ass accelerate before blowing up is ridiculous.

I also personally feel like the defenses need a little boost on them as well. I feel they need another 50% to shield and armour to make the progression more logical, the BC needs more too, just not as big a jump.

Stronghold corp
Posted - 2005.03.01 03:00:00 - [37]

Originally by: Rod Blaine
Take away megapulses and their insane tracking/range/damage combo. Take out the uber torp of d00m and uber cruise of instakill. Bring on the EW-with-one-module. And finally, give heavy missiles some lubbin.

I see relatively stronger cruisers coming up here.
No clue wether it's gonna be enough, but you can be sure that you'll have to wait how these things pan out before cruisers get any love of their own I'd guess.

Cruisers did you say Cruiser MMMMMMMMMMMmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Remember the Ghost Fleet ruptures Rod LaughingLaughing

Would love to have cruisers be that effective once again

Akh'Vehlr Industries
Posted - 2005.03.01 07:03:00 - [38]

Missiles need nerfing against them, megapulse need an overall nerfing.

Agility needs to be boosted too. And all the cruisers apart from the Thorax which is pretty good already, need some sort of additional boost.

And the cruisers warping at 4.5 au would be nice, not neccesary though

Posted - 2005.03.01 08:58:00 - [39]

Why does everyone think missles should be nerfed on this page?? I really don't get it. Please enlighten me.

We are comparing apples and oranges when you compare missles and turrets of any kind. I f want to talk about missles glancing off and not hitting at all then you need to think about the other end of the spectrum, I.E. No Defenders anymore, cause if they can miss no sence in making them get shot down as well, unless you are going to make it so turrets can be stopped after they are fired. Secondly, you need to increase the potential damage that can be done by the missles as well, so instead of getting hit with 3 cruise missles for 330 a piece you may get two glancing off at 50 and one wrecking for 900+.

The cruisers themselves need the fixing and that is the point of this thread. Not to argue over weapons. I think they need to be the middle ground between the frig and the BS like there were ment to be, and the post early shows that cruiser is only 65% more agil than a BS yet, the frigate is 300+% more agil than the cruiser. If you fix those two thing (speed and agility) and make it so cruiser weapons can hit frigs again they will be more survivable, and may actually get used in this game.

Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2005.03.01 09:48:00 - [40]

To be honest I generally use cruisers when I decide to do lvl 3 missions. I always prefer the speed of the frigate/ceptor or the firepower of the battleship. Generally I will ony ever use cruisers in a support role. But thats personal choice, I know some people are very competent with cruisers and prefer to pilot them, but their mid-range capabillities leave much to be desired.

The same goes for destroyers, not something I like to pilot at all. Battlecruisers on the other hand can be quite effective, but manufacturers need to bring the proce of those down.

The Littlest Hobos
Posted - 2005.03.01 09:51:00 - [41]

so Simply put CCP:

Up cruiser agility (across the board) byu say 25%?? as a strater point.

Increase Warp speed to 4.5 au.

This would be (if im not wrong?) a very easy to do fix, and would at least start to address some of these problems....

Mnemonic Enterprises
Dark Matter Coalition
Posted - 2005.03.01 09:54:00 - [42]

I have somekind of a solution.

Frigates can hit everything, are fast as hell, but very very low damage.

Destroyers can hit everything, not as fast as frigates, slightly better damage than frigates.

Cruisers can hit everything but have dificulties hitting frigates (missing half), not as fast as destroyers, Medium damage.

Battle cruisers can hit everything except frigates and destroyers (first ones are impossible to hit, second ones miss more than half), slower than cruisers, Medium High damage.

BS can only hit Battlecruisers and have hard times to hit cruisers, frigates and destroyers are impossible to hit. High Damage slow velocity.

Dreadnoughts hits BS, miss most of the times BC and impossible to hit the rest. Very high damage very very slow velocity.

If we are going to have 6 types of ship classes it should exist also 6 sizes of guns, missiles and modules.

Xsmall - Frigates
Small - Destroyers
Medium - Cruisers
Medium Large - BC
Large - BS
XL - Dreadnought

Huzzah Federation
Posted - 2005.03.01 20:56:00 - [43]

It also irks me that the standard ship type in this game is the battleship, with frigates playing the support role.

It should be the cruiser being the standard ship, with frigates and battleships playing the support roles.

So I guess what needs to be done is to make battleships less workable without support. Make their role to do the big damage in the big battles, but not to take things out on their own. Give them more lock time, less sensor strength, etc. Make them very vulnerable to EW, so the cruisers have to choose targets to allow the battleships to do their thing. Giving cruisers more agility sounds a nice idea as well.

One thing that's awlays confused me is why the ships get more slots as they get bigger. A battleship is more versatile than a frigate? Why should this be? It seems a little late to change something like that, though.

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