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Jeremiah Davion
Posted - 2011.07.23 19:10:00 - [31]
 

Edited by: Jeremiah Davion on 23/07/2011 19:10:47
While I havent experience much problems with the basic Incarna rollout (I like the look of the captain's quarters and actually seeing my in-game char is something I've wanted since I started playin Eve) I'll not be shamed in ssaying I'm less than thrilled about the NeX/Aurum thing.

The NeX thing, IMHO, is geared towards the player who can actually afford to throw out a boatload of rt cash on a plex so that he or she can sut uop their toon in the latest fashions. What about the run of the mill joe who just wants to get in his ship, zip across the galaxy and pop a few people? The folk who dont have the finances (or for that matter, sever constraints on time) to put into it. Give them a bit of love too, because it's those people who've been Eve's strongest base and support.

in a nutshell, show me the Aurum.

dexington
Caldari
Baconoration
Posted - 2011.07.23 19:14:00 - [32]
 

Originally by: Diesel47
So you managed to **** off 95% of the playerbase (CCP forum alts excluded.) Made a bunch of players quit the game, couple of my friends actually.. and created a boatload of bad press and threads like this.

How many monocles and miniskirts would you have to sell to deem this acceptable?

/discuss.


I can understand if someone left eve because they didn't like incarna, if someone really hates the idea of have an avatar in-game other then a ship, incarna must have been a slap in the face.

Quitting eve because of the Nex store is just stupid, it's an option you can choose to use or choose not to use. All the "what if" possibilities and worst case scenarios people whine about is just stupid, fact is that MT was an option right from day one, and if you feel that strongly about it you probably should stop playing mmo's, like it or not it's the new era of mmo's.

I remember when the first main stream mmo's came out with monthly subscription fees, lots of people was whining about it, "why most i pay every month for a game i already payed fore!?". The NeX store is much the same, with the difference that you can actually buy items in the NeX store by converting isk to plex, you don't have to spend you hard earned dollars to dress up your barbie if you want to do that.

Where many other companies have designed micro transactions to be something you can only use with real money, CCP made the right decision and made it possible to buy any MT item with in-game currency. Incarna is probably going to bring more players to the game, QC and walking in stations may mainly be cosmetic changes, but it's a much needed face lift and for many non eve players something that is expected to be part of a modern mmo.

Was it worth it?, i think so... I want to eve to grow and be in constant change, i personally don't like games that stay the same for years. Do CCP make mistakes, sure they do, but in the end i believe they have the best interest of eve at heart and even if i don't always agree 100% with the changes they make, i understand ever change to the game is not made for me personally.

Just like in real life changes in eve are not always going your way, and just like in real life it's a waste of time trying to change things you don't have the power to change, learn to accept and embrace change and get the most out of the things, it makes you life a lot easier.

Jonathan Ferguson
JC Ferguson and Son Ltd
Ferguson Alliance
Posted - 2011.07.23 19:32:00 - [33]
 

Originally by: dexington
Quitting eve because of the Nex store is just stupid, it's an option you can choose to use or choose not to use. All the "what if" possibilities and worst case scenarios people whine about is just stupid, fact is that MT was an option right from day one, and if you feel that strongly about it you probably should stop playing mmo's, like it or not it's the new era of mmo's.


If CCP devoted sufficient resources to Internet Spaceships and was honest to its customers about the Nex store and had no plans to introduce non-vanity items for MT into the game, you would be correct.

But they don't, they weren't/aren't, and they do. So you aren't.

Originally by: dexington
I remember when the first main stream mmo's came out with monthly subscription fees, lots of people was whining about it, "why most i pay every month for a game i already payed fore!?". The NeX store is much the same, with the difference that you can actually buy items in the NeX store by converting isk to plex, you don't have to spend you hard earned dollars to dress up your barbie if you want to do that.

Wow. There's stretching an analogy and then there's saying 'a pickle is much the same as a hammer.' You did the latter.

Here's what it's like:

MMO's came out with monthly subscriptions and people whined and the developers said 'We use the monthly subscription to make the game better.' and most people stopped whining.

EVE has the highest average monthly cost/player in the industry. A healthy chunk of those subscriptions should go towards making the game better. CCP essentially stopped making the game better (there's a skeleton crew working on making nullsec better for the PR meatshield known as CSM, that's about it, just talk to the FW folks or the hybrid folks or have a gander at the 'issues in process', most of which have been there for years.) On top of that they want to charge a surtax (microtransactions.) They are dishonest and greedy. They want your money but they don't want to earn it. They want a tip, while degrading their product and providing horrible service. That's not acceptable.

There will always be patsies, sheep and fanbois. Your arguments don't hold water, though.

Siigari Kitawa
Gallente
Perditus Peregrinus
Posted - 2011.07.23 19:39:00 - [34]
 

Originally by: LordOfDespair
Now I'm no marketing guru... But I think CCP would of made more money if they simply sent out a mail saying "Look, things are bad and for EvE to survive we need a little bit more money. We are raising the sub price by ONE DOLLAR!"

That is $400,000 dollars more profit per year.

Learn math please. Also I suggested this a long time ago and the forums came down on me like a ton of bricks.

If they raised the sub prices one dollar and we have 400k users, that would be 4.8 million, not 400,000.

Mekkimaru
Gallente
Posted - 2011.07.23 19:43:00 - [35]
 

Read OP then just stopped

Do some people still think all players use forums?


Cipher Jones
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.07.23 19:46:00 - [36]
 

EvE is dying. And its not just like all the fake apocalypses that were supposed to happen already, this time its REAL.

Kin Netics
Posted - 2011.07.23 19:52:00 - [37]
 

95% of the people reading this thread are a laughing at you, and yes some are CCP alts.

Jonathan Ferguson
JC Ferguson and Son Ltd
Ferguson Alliance
Posted - 2011.07.23 19:55:00 - [38]
 

Originally by: Siigari Kitawa
Originally by: LordOfDespair
Now I'm no marketing guru... But I think CCP would of made more money if they simply sent out a mail saying "Look, things are bad and for EvE to survive we need a little bit more money. We are raising the sub price by ONE DOLLAR!"

That is $400,000 dollars more profit per year.

Learn math please. Also I suggested this a long time ago and the forums came down on me like a ton of bricks.

If they raised the sub prices one dollar and we have 400k users, that would be 4.8 million, not 400,000.


People came down on you 'like a ton of bricks' because there's utterly no justification for CCP to raise prices AT ALL. EVE is immensely profitable, that's why they call us their 'golden goose'. They don't spend sufficient resources on EVE as it stands, why should they be allowed to squeeze even MORE money out of us for not doing their jobs?

Now if they said 'Look, guys, we messed up. We bit off more than we could chew and in order to maintain an appropriate level of resources for Internet Spaceships we're going to have to raise subscription costs by $1/month.' then yeah, maybe. Let them show some humility, some honesty, and some sign that they have a grasp on reality. But no, it's just more arrogance, more dishonesty, more neglect of the source of their company's success, and harassing customers who complain.

Barbelo Valentinian
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2011.07.23 21:21:00 - [39]
 

Edited by: Barbelo Valentinian on 23/07/2011 21:24:13
Originally by: LordOfDespair
EvE is not targeted at a big audience of people, it is not WOW where 9 out of 10 people will find it fun. The people who enjoy EvE, enjoy it because of its complexity and depth.Trying to make it into some MT, P2W, cash grubbing MMO will drive away the people that like that gameplay. And the type of players that ENJOY P2W and MT (little kids from personal experiance) will NOT enjoy the type of gameplay EvE offers. For me this makes NO sense whatsoever. I have no idea where CCP is going with this.



All very true, but the point is that recent events have shown they are quite willing to CHANGE THE COMPLEXION OF THE PLAYERBASE. In other words, they think they will make more money by turning EVE into the type of game that P2W kids would enjoy. They plan to make the game simpler precisely so it can appeal to larger numbers of people who can use their dad's credit card to buy little bits of P2W, all of which will amount to a healthy profit for them.

Nothing morally wrong with that, it's up to them how they go about things. But it feels like a betrayal - here was me (and no doubt many other players) thinking "Hey, CCP is a great company, they really care about their game, they care that they've got one of the best functioning sandbox virtual worlds in existence, and they want to improve it, etc., etc." Up until recently I really thought that.

Now, regretfully, it seems it's no longer the case. Obviously they'll carry on doing their best for EVE, making it shinier; but they will also gradually make it easier. The older type of players, who loved the virtual world, people who were prepared to put time into building community, etc., etc. are no longer required.

Mark my words, in two years time, EVE will be more or less a PvP arena, where you can have fast, convenient PvP fun, sort of like GW. Just another game - still a damn good game in its own way, no doubt, but just another game, in which there will be very little sense of virtual world, of sandbox, and in which the lore will be vestigial.

In a way, this was always inevitable, and, in a sense, it's amazing that CCP have held out so long. They did care about the integrity of their virtual world, for a long, long time. But now they're moving on to other things.

Pytria Le'Danness
Posted - 2011.07.23 21:22:00 - [40]
 

Originally by: Jeremiah Davion

The NeX thing, IMHO, is geared towards the player who can actually afford to throw out a boatload of rt cash on a plex so that he or she can sut uop their toon in the latest fashions. ...


Remember that the stuff from the store can also be bought with ISK by buying PLEX with ISK. And since CCP has 100% accurate data on how much ISK is in circulation, how many PLEX are around and who has what. Thus I presume they looked at the ISK floating around and decided that the extortionist prices they demand are OK for the ISK that is in game. I am not sure if they went by average and thus intentionally cut out everyone who doesn't have a few billion ISK lying around, or if they didn't even consider them.

In principle I am not against microtransactions. They can bring fresh currency into a game without taxing the ones who do not want to deal with that - contrary to raising subscription fees. However by setting the prices as high as they did I feel ripped off, and even though I could afford to buy stuff refuse to do so. Of course that I consider everything incredibly ugly does help with that resolve so far :)

However I hate that they put so much dev time into building all of it, and it's only attainable for a select elite. That's as if they focussed an entire expansion on boosting one tiny part of 0.0 That's not how I want to see the subscription money being spent.

dexington
Caldari
Baconoration
Posted - 2011.07.23 21:34:00 - [41]
 

Originally by: Barbelo Valentinian
All very true, but the point is that recent events have shown they are quite willing to CHANGE THE COMPLEXION OF THE PLAYERBASE. In other words, they think they will make more money by turning EVE into the type of game that P2W kids would enjoy. They plan to make the game simpler precisely so it can appeal to larger numbers of people who can use their dad's credit card to buy little bits of P2W, all of which will amount to a healthy profit for them.


Would you be as kind as to point out the items in the NeX store that gives you an advantage over others, i don't see them.

Barbelo Valentinian
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2011.07.23 21:50:00 - [42]
 

Edited by: Barbelo Valentinian on 23/07/2011 21:56:52
Originally by: dexington
Originally by: Barbelo Valentinian
All very true, but the point is that recent events have shown they are quite willing to CHANGE THE COMPLEXION OF THE PLAYERBASE. In other words, they think they will make more money by turning EVE into the type of game that P2W kids would enjoy. They plan to make the game simpler precisely so it can appeal to larger numbers of people who can use their dad's credit card to buy little bits of P2W, all of which will amount to a healthy profit for them.


Would you be as kind as to point out the items in the NeX store that gives you an advantage over others, i don't see them.


Their intentions are pretty clear, despite the smoke and mirrors of the CSM trip, etc. See my post here. See also other comments in that thread about some of the recent changes (like limiting fittings so they can be bought later, but more egregiously, like getting rid of learning so that SP boosts can be bought later).

I mean, what part of "WE ARE PLANNING ON DOING SO" is unclear or ambiguous, or open to interpretation, or a mere expression of a "point of view" in a corporate rag? Especially in view of Hilmar's email where he says that the corporate view has been put forth in, amongst other places, the Fearless Newsletter.

They have covered their asses before, they are covering them now. But this time, it's not just some tweak in the game, or some blundering idiocy of an employee who's also a player; it's a change in the whole direction of the game, from virtual world, to just another MMO with a cash shop.

Phil MacMannon
Fantastic Gymnastics
Posted - 2011.07.23 21:57:00 - [43]
 

Originally by: Barbelo Valentinian
Edited by: Barbelo Valentinian on 23/07/2011 21:24:13
Originally by: LordOfDespair
EvE is not targeted at a big audience of people, it is not WOW where 9 out of 10 people will find it fun. The people who enjoy EvE, enjoy it because of its complexity and depth.Trying to make it into some MT, P2W, cash grubbing MMO will drive away the people that like that gameplay. And the type of players that ENJOY P2W and MT (little kids from personal experiance) will NOT enjoy the type of gameplay EvE offers. For me this makes NO sense whatsoever. I have no idea where CCP is going with this.



All very true, but the point is that recent events have shown they are quite willing to CHANGE THE COMPLEXION OF THE PLAYERBASE. In other words, they think they will make more money by turning EVE into the type of game that P2W kids would enjoy. They plan to make the game simpler precisely so it can appeal to larger numbers of people who can use their dad's credit card to buy little bits of P2W, all of which will amount to a healthy profit for them.

Nothing morally wrong with that, it's up to them how they go about things. But it feels like a betrayal - here was me (and no doubt many other players) thinking "Hey, CCP is a great company, they really care about their game, they care that they've got one of the best functioning sandbox virtual worlds in existence, and they want to improve it, etc., etc." Up until recently I really thought that.

Now, regretfully, it seems it's no longer the case. Obviously they'll carry on doing their best for EVE, making it shinier; but they will also gradually make it easier. The older type of players, who loved the virtual world, people who were prepared to put time into building community, etc., etc. are no longer required.

Mark my words, in two years time, EVE will be more or less a PvP arena, where you can have fast, convenient PvP fun, sort of like GW. Just another game - still a damn good game in its own way, no doubt, but just another game, in which there will be very little sense of virtual world, of sandbox, and in which the lore will be vestigial.

In a way, this was always inevitable, and, in a sense, it's amazing that CCP have held out so long. They did care about the integrity of their virtual world, for a long, long time. But now they're moving on to other things.


Probably the best post i have read over the last few weeks, pretty much sums up how i feel about things, fantastic job.

Enquirer
Posted - 2011.07.23 22:03:00 - [44]
 

95% .... lol
yea... as 1 pretends he speaks for all.

I like the aspect of walking in station. I cant wait till i can gamble my isk away... the clothing.... so what. If its to expensive for you or you dont like it.... dont buy it... Its already been said there will be no "golden ammo". PC issues.... it logical to think as the game gets upgraded such as better graphics and station walking, your pc will need to be upgraded... This isnt an xbox or playstaion game... When you started playing computer games you also started playing the upgrade war... Without computer upgrades, you would still be playing 8bit games. I love eve... there is no other mmo out there thats even close to its depth and freedom and none in site coming. Nope not a ccp alt, just a player tired of whiners... if you dont like it so much, go back to wow.

This game rewards those that work for it... and whining doesnt count.

dexington
Caldari
Baconoration
Posted - 2011.07.23 22:10:00 - [45]
 

Originally by: Barbelo Valentinian
Edited by: Barbelo Valentinian on 23/07/2011 21:56:52
Originally by: dexington
Originally by: Barbelo Valentinian
All very true, but the point is that recent events have shown they are quite willing to CHANGE THE COMPLEXION OF THE PLAYERBASE. In other words, they think they will make more money by turning EVE into the type of game that P2W kids would enjoy. They plan to make the game simpler precisely so it can appeal to larger numbers of people who can use their dad's credit card to buy little bits of P2W, all of which will amount to a healthy profit for them.


Would you be as kind as to point out the items in the NeX store that gives you an advantage over others, i don't see them.


Their intentions are pretty clear, despite the smoke and mirrors of the CSM trip, etc. See my post here. See also other comments in that thread about some of the recent changes (like limiting fittings so they can be bought later, but more egregiously, like getting rid of learning so that SP boosts can be bought later).

I mean, what part of "WE ARE PLANNING ON DOING SO" is unclear or ambiguous, or open to interpretation, or a mere expression of a "point of view" in a corporate rag? Especially in view of Hilmar's email where he says that the corporate view has been put forth in, amongst other places, the Fearless Newsletter.

They have covered their asses before, they are covering them now. But this time, it's not just some tweak in the game, or some blundering idiocy of an employee who's also a player; it's a change in the whole direction of the game, from virtual world, to just another MMO with a cash shop.


So in other words you have nothing except personal opinion and your personal prediction on the future to back up your claim.

Diesel47
Posted - 2011.07.23 22:19:00 - [46]
 

Edited by: Diesel47 on 23/07/2011 22:27:02
Originally by: Bootleg Jack

1. Yes sir, quitting playing, but continuing to pay and post on the forums, yes sir, you protesters really stuck it too them Laughing
2. Everyone who doesn't agree with me is a CCP alt Rolling EyesLaughing


1. I don't understand what you are really trying to say. But I don't judge, maybe English isn't your first language.

You don't have to quit playing a game because you don't like how things are going. If that was the case... EvE would of been bankrupt by now.

2. Didn't say everyone. The 5% that actually want MT "Pixel buyers" Explained here (http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1555388) Don't agree with me, the rest are CCP alts.

Zag'mar Jurkar
Minmatar
Advent of the Blood Sun
Posted - 2011.07.23 22:22:00 - [47]
 

89.6% of all statistics are pulled out of thin air !

MORE NEWS AT 11, ONLY ON FOX!

LordOfDespair
Posted - 2011.07.23 22:25:00 - [48]
 

Edited by: LordOfDespair on 23/07/2011 22:33:51
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa

Learn math please. Also I suggested this a long time ago and the forums came down on me like a ton of bricks.

If they raised the sub prices one dollar and we have 400k users, that would be 4.8 million, not 400,000.


I meant month~ not year. Big deal.


Plus the problem isn't being able to buy clothes from the NEX store. (Which is still very lame, nevertheless)

The problem is the leaked mails and newsletters that suggest that things like "SP remaping packs", "uber strong pwnmobile ships", and garbage like "extra fitting slots" being added on in the future... turning EvE from the unforgiving game it is to cheap Chinese MMO ripoff.

If you want MT like that go play any of the thousand lame MT-MMOs out there.

Barbelo Valentinian
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2011.07.23 22:30:00 - [49]
 

Edited by: Barbelo Valentinian on 23/07/2011 22:30:40
Originally by: dexington
Originally by: Barbelo Valentinian
Edited by: Barbelo Valentinian on 23/07/2011 21:56:52
Originally by: dexington
Originally by: Barbelo Valentinian
All very true, but the point is that recent events have shown they are quite willing to CHANGE THE COMPLEXION OF THE PLAYERBASE. In other words, they think they will make more money by turning EVE into the type of game that P2W kids would enjoy. They plan to make the game simpler precisely so it can appeal to larger numbers of people who can use their dad's credit card to buy little bits of P2W, all of which will amount to a healthy profit for them.


Would you be as kind as to point out the items in the NeX store that gives you an advantage over others, i don't see them.


Their intentions are pretty clear, despite the smoke and mirrors of the CSM trip, etc. See my post here. See also other comments in that thread about some of the recent changes (like limiting fittings so they can be bought later, but more egregiously, like getting rid of learning so that SP boosts can be bought later).

I mean, what part of "WE ARE PLANNING ON DOING SO" is unclear or ambiguous, or open to interpretation, or a mere expression of a "point of view" in a corporate rag? Especially in view of Hilmar's email where he says that the corporate view has been put forth in, amongst other places, the Fearless Newsletter.

They have covered their asses before, they are covering them now. But this time, it's not just some tweak in the game, or some blundering idiocy of an employee who's also a player; it's a change in the whole direction of the game, from virtual world, to just another MMO with a cash shop.


So in other words you have nothing except personal opinion and your personal prediction on the future to back up your claim.


No, I have direct quotes from the corporate newsletter and a leaked email from the CEO that says the newsletter did in fact represent the company direction.

What part of "WE ARE PLANNING ON DOING SO" don't you understand?

Diesel47
Posted - 2011.07.23 22:37:00 - [50]
 

Originally by: Barbelo Valentinian
Edited by: Barbelo Valentinian on 23/07/2011 21:24:13
Originally by: LordOfDespair
EvE is not targeted at a big audience of people, it is not WOW where 9 out of 10 people will find it fun. The people who enjoy EvE, enjoy it because of its complexity and depth.Trying to make it into some MT, P2W, cash grubbing MMO will drive away the people that like that gameplay. And the type of players that ENJOY P2W and MT (little kids from personal experiance) will NOT enjoy the type of gameplay EvE offers. For me this makes NO sense whatsoever. I have no idea where CCP is going with this.



All very true, but the point is that recent events have shown they are quite willing to CHANGE THE COMPLEXION OF THE PLAYERBASE. In other words, they think they will make more money by turning EVE into the type of game that P2W kids would enjoy. They plan to make the game simpler precisely so it can appeal to larger numbers of people who can use their dad's credit card to buy little bits of P2W, all of which will amount to a healthy profit for them.

Nothing morally wrong with that, it's up to them how they go about things. But it feels like a betrayal - here was me (and no doubt many other players) thinking "Hey, CCP is a great company, they really care about their game, they care that they've got one of the best functioning sandbox virtual worlds in existence, and they want to improve it, etc., etc." Up until recently I really thought that.

Now, regretfully, it seems it's no longer the case. Obviously they'll carry on doing their best for EVE, making it shinier; but they will also gradually make it easier. The older type of players, who loved the virtual world, people who were prepared to put time into building community, etc., etc. are no longer required.

Mark my words, in two years time, EVE will be more or less a PvP arena, where you can have fast, convenient PvP fun, sort of like GW. Just another game - still a damn good game in its own way, no doubt, but just another game, in which there will be very little sense of virtual world, of sandbox, and in which the lore will be vestigial.

In a way, this was always inevitable, and, in a sense, it's amazing that CCP have held out so long. They did care about the integrity of their virtual world, for a long, long time. But now they're moving on to other things.


+1, this guy gets it 100%.

dexington
Caldari
Baconoration
Posted - 2011.07.23 22:47:00 - [51]
 

Originally by: Barbelo Valentinian
No, I have direct quotes from the corporate newsletter and a leaked email from the CEO that says the newsletter did in fact represent the company direction.

What part of "WE ARE PLANNING ON DOING SO" don't you understand?


You know that the fearless newsletter is a company newsletter, and the purpose of the MT article was have a discussion about MT, it does not state company policy or personal views of the employees writing the article. It even say so it you had cared to read the first page, but it guess it suited you better to leave that part out, so it would fit nicely into your predictions of doom.

As for the Hilmar email, it didn't say anything about what would be sold in the NeX store, only that they wouldn't change direction because some players was upset about MT. You seem to think that CCP had and still have plans to sell "gold items", which you can't prove.

Jonathan Ferguson
JC Ferguson and Son Ltd
Ferguson Alliance
Posted - 2011.07.23 22:55:00 - [52]
 

Originally by: dexington
Originally by: Barbelo Valentinian
No, I have direct quotes from the corporate newsletter and a leaked email from the CEO that says the newsletter did in fact represent the company direction.

What part of "WE ARE PLANNING ON DOING SO" don't you understand?


You know that the fearless newsletter is a company newsletter, and the purpose of the MT article was have a discussion about MT, it does not state company policy or personal views of the employees writing the article. It even say so it you had cared to read the first page, but it guess it suited you better to leave that part out, so it would fit nicely into your predictions of doom.

As for the Hilmar email, it didn't say anything about what would be sold in the NeX store, only that they wouldn't change direction because some players was upset about MT. You seem to think that CCP had and still have plans to sell "gold items", which you can't prove.


You know that you're regurgitating CCP lies, right?

stofferninjapirate/Soundwave has said that he stands by the opinion he expresses in Fearless.

Hilmar said that Fearless is (one of many media) used to communicate the intent of CCP internally.

dexington
Caldari
Baconoration
Posted - 2011.07.23 23:00:00 - [53]
 

Originally by: Jonathan Ferguson
stofferninjapirate/Soundwave has said that he stands by the opinion he expresses in Fearless.


Can you link the source?

Originally by: Jonathan Ferguson
Hilmar said that Fearless is (one of many media) used to communicate the intent of CCP internally.


The NeX store was no secret, the intent to add MT to eve is not the same as selling "gold items".

Cipher Jones
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.07.23 23:03:00 - [54]
 

Quote:
Remember that the stuff from the store can also be bought with ISK by buying PLEX with ISK.


Yeah remember that.

Jonathan Ferguson
JC Ferguson and Son Ltd
Ferguson Alliance
Posted - 2011.07.23 23:15:00 - [55]
 

Edited by: Jonathan Ferguson on 23/07/2011 23:17:11
Originally by: dexington
Originally by: Jonathan Ferguson
stofferninjapirate/Soundwave has said that he stands by the opinion he expresses in Fearless.


Can you link the source?


The source.

"That’s not to say that I was in any way forced to take a position I disagree with, that certainly wasn’t the case."

Please stop lying through your teeth or talking out of your ass. (And if you could let me know which of the two it was, it would be a big help.)

(BTW, if you don't think non-vanity MT are coming, why have the CSM thrown in the towel at even trying to prevent them on failheap?)

Trebor (who is the least sellout of a bad lot on this CSM):

"If you take CCP at their stated intentions, they are placing an extremely high value on the experience they hope to gain from experimenting with MT in EVE.

I bluntly asked at the summit if they understood the risk they were taking by refusing to rule out non-vanity MT, and were willing to take that risk. They said yes. My judgment is that the risk/reward was not there, and I told them so in no uncertain terms. Bluntly, if they want to learn more about gold ammo, they should just play a bit more WoT."

Klandi
Consortium of stella Technologies
Posted - 2011.07.23 23:43:00 - [56]
 

I wish to comment on two issues, found in this thread.

1) The customer is always right
2) CCP cared about the game, now they don't

In retail, you, the consumer, have rights and those rights will be held up in a court of law. This also assumes that because of those rights, the customer IS right and just like in law, innocent until PROVEN guilty. From a service perspective, even though we service people do not like it, the customer must be always thought-of as right because of the previous statement. Strangely enough, when you (as a service oriented person) go into a situation where you are not getting the respect you think you deserve, I guarantee you are the first to use this expression. The customer is always and will always have rights.


Around the second point, business is a tricky thing. Anticipating with limited knowledge (especially if you are a trailblazer) hoping to protect a number of cost factors that are important (like your employees) and rising to meet the challenges that situations thrust upon you. Having the confidence of the board and satisfying your customer base are one huge juggling act.

Throughout everything there is one constant - change.


Sometimes you get it perfectly and you are applauded - other times you pick yourself up, dust yourself off and move on. If you are really smart, you will understand perspective and attempt to mitigate risk, other times, the time just doesn't allow it.
This game is CCPs product, we are the customers that have been granted a unique right - the ability to help mould the game. It is in CCPs interest to care about the game, but it is also in their interest to change.

I think what we are experiencing is the result of CCP re-directing their focus, making sure that the effect is minimalised, but needless to say, we have noticed the lack of focus we previously enjoyed and are feeling piqued. Letting emotion get the better of us, we clumsily let our feelings known.

They still love the game, of that I am sure.


Diomedes Calypso
Aetolian Armada
Posted - 2011.07.23 23:47:00 - [57]
 

Originally by: AkJon Ferguson
To be fair, I think 95% is high. Almost all of the not particularly bright or intellectually curious crowd have been largely appeased. I'd guess it was more like 30% were not appeased and 1/3 of those left.




I think you pretty much got that part right... I'd say more like "dissapoionted or worse" 1/3 rd, and really peaved temporarily 20% (and I'll give you the best and the brightest preponderance for that number) and appeased all but about 15%.

The 18% appeased just see the thing as another slip of competence and little more.

Of the remaning 15%, I'd guess that half are still playing albeit with a different view in terms of how the company views players.....and they might be playing less frequently. Of the remaining 7%..did they quit? some quit but probably only 3% really did and the others just aren't playing and have plex to pay accounts indefinitely.

So tldr : I'd guess 3% quit, 10% of those remaining have a pretty bitter taste in their mouths, 20% (up to a third now) just see it as another in a long line of misteps sense appocrapha and 66% didn't care and never read the fearless and actually liked the expansion. (i'd guess maybe 10% to 15% of players liked the expansion vs 3% quitters, and 30% various levels of disgust)

The real rub is EVE is still by far the best alternative for those that want a large sandbox with an abiltiy to shape the game environment and a mostly player economy. Even if that took a hit, the resulting situation is still far above the next alternative (yes I'm playing perpetuum but its economy is so undeveloped and limmited at this point and you can't even build or name structures and one alliance pretty much can have global reach and squash interesting developments atm)

(I'll leave out the best and the brigthest speculation... hard to say on that one...and the pivot might be how ripe people were to move on...

I'll also leave out that icelandic speculation but it was an interesting read that i'll need to vet for signal to noise quality...sounded a bit like it was written by a site pitching high commision (for them) gold futures etc.)



Important Person
Posted - 2011.07.23 23:49:00 - [58]
 

Originally by: Klandi

This game is CCPs product, we are the customers that have been granted a unique right - the ability to help mould the game. It is in CCPs interest to care about the game, but it is also in their interest to change.



See, heres the thing. We never had the RIGHT to mould the game, we had the ability to. CCP has the RIGHT to do whatever they want with the game. We have the RIGHT as consumers to play it or not.

dexington
Caldari
Baconoration
Posted - 2011.07.23 23:50:00 - [59]
 

Originally by: Jonathan Ferguson
Edited by: Jonathan Ferguson on 23/07/2011 23:17:11
Originally by: dexington
Originally by: Jonathan Ferguson
stofferninjapirate/Soundwave has said that he stands by the opinion he expresses in Fearless.


Can you link the source?


The source.

"That’s not to say that I was in any way forced to take a position I disagree with, that certainly wasn’t the case."

Please stop lying through your teeth or talking out of your ass. (And if you could let me know which of the two it was, it would be a big help.)


"When I was asked to write the piece, I wasn’t given a word limit, so I wrote a piece about three times as long. One of the parts which was cut contained reflection on how to give away AUR for free. Basically seeding the virtual currency, either as a kind of frequent flyer mile you get every month or based off achievements etc. There was a lot of stuff in there which I felt would bring a lot of value to EVE, but in the end I had to make cuts that condensed it into an obvious “pro” piece. I guess I ended up with a slim piece that painted a different picture than my intention." -- CCP Soundwave.

Diomedes Calypso
Aetolian Armada
Posted - 2011.07.23 23:51:00 - [60]
 

Edited by: Diomedes Calypso on 23/07/2011 23:52:08
Originally by: dexington

I can understand if someone left eve because they didn't like incarna, if someone really hates the idea of have an avatar in-game other then a ship, incarna must have been a slap in the face.

Quitting eve because of the Nex store is just stupid, it's an option you can choose to use or choose not to use. All the "what if" possibilities and worst case scenarios people whine about is just stupid, fact is that MT was an option right from day one, and if you feel that strongly ......


I think the disgust most feel is from the ATTITUDE and priorities said and said by ommision in the internal documents that surfaced.

Picking the "why" of that appart its more of a sociology paper than I care to write though.


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