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KirosawaMadFilms
Posted - 2011.07.20 20:22:00 - [1]
 

I'm wondering what the consensus is about the 'Perfect' PVE ship.
Essentially what ship will earn the most in missions. Both by bounty earning and completing them quickly.

Assumptions:
  • Ignore salvaging, assume that's done by a Noctis alt

  • Assume ship is for ANY NPC Type / Mish (so no crap like Kronos is best for Guristas)

  • No Cap Boosters - Too annoying for long mishes, we don't have to be cap stable, but the tank should be

  • Skills are Maxed out

  • Faction & Deadspace fits are acceptable, within reason tho, an officer fit is just a high sec gank target that will lose money in the long run


Marauders / Pirate BS's / T3's seem to be the obvious category choices

Most Important Factors:
  • DPS - (not on Paper, effective)

  • Damage Type - (EM/Exp/Kin/Therm, the ability to adjust to any faction)

  • Speed - (Long Gate Hauls)

  • Tank

Currently I'm a Kronos Pilot, and i can get crazy Paper DPS with blasters and an MWD. (about 1400 dps)
But the drawbacks are that I'm only doing Kin/Therm damage and Blaster Range (thus traveling time).

Marauders have Particular Advantages when considering Isk / Hour
  • 1/2 the Guns means half the ammo, thus Expensive Faction / T2 is more profitable

  • Cap Recharge Bonus is like Adding a Mid slot

  • Resistance Bonuses is like Adding a low

  • Huge Cargo Bay Means you can store all your mish fits and travel around to agents quicker

  • 3 Extra highs are handy

  • Ship Bonuses to the Tank are huge

Obvious choices include:
Vargur - Autocannons have lower dps than Blasters but Can do any Damage Type
Machariel - "" , also has excellent ship bonuses for DPS
Navy Dominix - Drones are dynamic, but do less DPS, tough to do a sentry fit with Large Guns
Rattlesnake - Great tank, but not enough DPS
Golem - Missiles Can do any Damage Type
Paladin - Limited to EM / Therm Damage

Your Thoughts with Reasoning? Commence Trolling! Smile

Darth McDarth
Posted - 2011.07.20 20:32:00 - [2]
 

Edited by: Darth McDarth on 20/07/2011 20:36:12

[Machariel]

7x 800mm Heavy 'Scout' Repeating Artillery I

2x Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field
Caldari Navy Shield Boost Amplifier
Republic Fleet 100MN Afterburner
Pithum A-Type Medium Shield Booster

4x Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
3x Republic Fleet Tracking Enhancer

3x Large Capacitor Control Circuit I

Cap stable, projectiles let you choose damage type.
Pimp to taste.

Cipher Jones
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.07.20 20:42:00 - [3]
 

Different ships make different amounts of isk in different missions. Some missions provide more income by killing everything and looting, some provide more by rushing.

A CNR with equal skills will complete gone berserk quicker than a Machariel or Vargur.

A tengu with equal skills make more ISK over time rushing WC than a Machariel/Vargur/Nightmare killing everything.


Cassiopeia Andromedae
Posted - 2011.07.20 21:05:00 - [4]
 

Tengu. Period.

Try to prove me wrong.

stoicfaux
Gallente
Posted - 2011.07.20 21:31:00 - [5]
 

Edited by: stoicfaux on 20/07/2011 21:32:16
Originally by: KirosawaMadFilms

Essentially what ship will earn the most in missions. Both by bounty earning and completing them quickly.

  • No Cap Boosters - Too annoying for long mishes, we don't have to be cap stable, but the tank should be




  • Cap stable tank, blitzing, cherry picking missions, and have a decent isk/LP conversion rate? You're probably looking at a Tengu with a small pith booster, or a Mach/Vargur with a Pithum A-Type medium shield booster.

    grumpyguts1
    Posted - 2011.07.21 00:13:00 - [6]
     

    Tengu 6x T2 HML, so you can use Fury, 3 x CN BCS. Can hit 80km away tank everything. Load standard scourge for frigs cause you going to waste some DPS. Will out do any ship that needs to manage drones and range and tracking..
    Use sig rigs and implants to improve damage on smaller ships.

    Nemo deBlanc
    Posted - 2011.07.21 00:45:00 - [7]
     

    Originally by: grumpyguts1
    3 x CN BCS. Can hit 80km away tank everything.


    Might want to fix your fit. Should be using 4x CN BCS, and a dissolution sequencer. There really is no reason to use a large SB on a lvl 4 tengu.

    grumpyguts1
    Posted - 2011.07.21 01:30:00 - [8]
     

    Originally by: Nemo deBlanc
    Originally by: grumpyguts1
    3 x CN BCS. Can hit 80km away tank everything.


    Might want to fix your fit. Should be using 4x CN BCS, and a dissolution sequencer. There really is no reason to use a large SB on a lvl 4 tengu.


    Well spotted. But sadly I do need a large SB as I am dual boxing with a glass cannon and generally warp in with the Tengu and aggro everything, then spend a lot more time on the second screen. Can see the tengu's target on the overlapping screen and when its popped, switch to tengu pick another target.... gets quite busy tbh.. So would rather be safe than sorry. Suppose if I bought faction/deadspace gear for tanking I could do it, but no real reason at the moment. Only money items are the CN BCS's so probably not worth ganking... I hope Very Happy

    DemetRYS
    Deep Core Mining Inc.
    Posted - 2011.07.21 01:39:00 - [9]
     

    I'd say tengu off-hand, but you will loose your edge if you spend significant amounts of time on rats that are resistant to kin (drones, sansha, blood). This makes the machariel look a bit better, despite being a tad bit slower as an overall blitz mission runner (in my experience). Having said that, I hate the ammo consumption of mach autos and I also hate not being able to wreck ball. Thusly, I use a vargur a lot when I am bothering to clean up afterward. With three tractor beams it's quite easy to make neat piles for the noctis to hoover up afterward. I also enjoy the varg because it's tank is more than substantial with even bargin basement tank mods. Unlike a mach or tengu it can allow for mistakes without making you sweat bullets. You're also essentially a non-target for ganks, unless you want to be (ie. fit pith med booster for a permarun setsup).

    Is the loot-balling varg setup superior isk/hr? Depends on the space, and probably not in most regions. If you have your heart set on being generally efficient though, i'd take a look at it. You aren't going to find anything that makes the most isk/hr on every rat type blitzing or wreck balling, so if you are after some kind of mission runner's philosopher stone, give up now. I can fly nearly every marauder, faction bs, and a tengu and I haven't noticed a huge diffirence in isk/hr using any of them.

    Sven Hammerstorm
    Posted - 2011.07.21 02:04:00 - [10]
     

    [Avatar, PvE]
    True Sansha Heat Sink
    True Sansha Heat Sink
    True Sansha Heat Sink
    True Sansha Heat Sink
    Domination Tracking Enhancer
    Domination Tracking Enhancer
    Damage Control II
    Ahremen's Modified Capacitor Power Relay

    Shadow Serpentis Sensor Booster, Scan Resolution
    Shadow Serpentis Sensor Booster, Scan Resolution
    Tairei's Modified Cap Recharger
    Tairei's Modified Cap Recharger
    Shadow Serpentis Tracking Computer, Tracking Speed

    Dual Modal Giga Pulse Laser I, Blood Standard XL
    Dual Modal Giga Pulse Laser I, Blood Standard XL
    Dual Modal Giga Pulse Laser I, Blood Standard XL
    Dual Modal Giga Pulse Laser I, Blood Standard XL
    Dual Modal Giga Pulse Laser I, Blood Standard XL
    Dual Modal Giga Pulse Laser I, Blood Standard XL
    Vizan's Modified Large EMP Smartbomb
    Judgement

    Large Targeting System Subcontroller II
    Large Energy Locus Coordinator II
    Large Targeting System Subcontroller I

    7k DPS

    Sanctum in 5 minutes, almost 600mil/hour

    Nomad Vherokic
    Minmatar
    Posted - 2011.07.21 02:15:00 - [11]
     

    Originally by: Sven Hammerstorm
    [Avatar, PvE]
    True Sansha Heat Sink
    True Sansha Heat Sink
    True Sansha Heat Sink
    True Sansha Heat Sink
    Domination Tracking Enhancer
    Domination Tracking Enhancer
    Damage Control II
    Ahremen's Modified Capacitor Power Relay

    Shadow Serpentis Sensor Booster, Scan Resolution
    Shadow Serpentis Sensor Booster, Scan Resolution
    Tairei's Modified Cap Recharger
    Tairei's Modified Cap Recharger
    Shadow Serpentis Tracking Computer, Tracking Speed

    Dual Modal Giga Pulse Laser I, Blood Standard XL
    Dual Modal Giga Pulse Laser I, Blood Standard XL
    Dual Modal Giga Pulse Laser I, Blood Standard XL
    Dual Modal Giga Pulse Laser I, Blood Standard XL
    Dual Modal Giga Pulse Laser I, Blood Standard XL
    Dual Modal Giga Pulse Laser I, Blood Standard XL
    Vizan's Modified Large EMP Smartbomb
    Judgement

    Large Targeting System Subcontroller II
    Large Energy Locus Coordinator II
    Large Targeting System Subcontroller I

    7k DPS

    Sanctum in 5 minutes, almost 600mil/hour


    ^^ he speaks the truth!

    oh, and it's *Kurosawa.

    Headerman
    Minmatar
    Quovis
    Shadow of xXDEATHXx
    Posted - 2011.07.21 06:41:00 - [12]
     

    Fastest would be an AC Ragnarok.

    REiiGN15
    Caldari
    Posted - 2011.07.21 07:25:00 - [13]
     

    I got my Tengu kickin' butt with just T2 stuff on L4s. Honestly no need for Faction stuff unless you can't fit T2 or just want to save a minute on the mission. This however is rare that it's alone. 450+ mil ISK ship, yeah, it's travelling with some big brothers in BSs.

    Keirsa
    Posted - 2011.07.21 14:45:00 - [14]
     

    Edited by: Keirsa on 21/07/2011 14:45:10
    Tengu.

    This is the fit I use, based on Mike712's fit on BattleClinic.

    Acceleration Ejection Bay
    Amplification Node
    Augmented Capacitor Reservoir
    Dissolution Sequencer
    Fuel Catalyst

    Heavy Missile Launcher II
    Heavy Missile Launcher II
    Heavy Missile Launcher II
    Heavy Missile Launcher II
    Heavy Missile Launcher II
    Heavy Missile Launcher II

    Invulnerability Field II
    Photon Scattering Field II
    Domination Shield Boost Amplifier
    Gistii B-Type Small Shield Booster
    Gistii B-Type Small Shield Booster
    Republic Fleet 10MN Afterburner

    Ballistic Control System II
    Ballistic Control System II
    Ballistic Control System II
    Ballistic Control System II

    Medium Warhead Rigor Catalyst I
    Medium Warhead Rigor Catalyst II
    Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II

    631 DPS Scourge Fury/504 DPS non-Kinetic Fury @ 100km, doing full damage to battlecruisers and battleships. If you're doing it right, you'll alpha most frigates by slinging faction ammo at them.

    Around 800m total when I purchased it, though I think some of the modules have gone up a little in price. Tank will handle any L4 and is cap stable with all modules running. 600 m/s under afterburner means you don't have to worry about travel times between gates and provides a great speed tank in addition to strong shield and sig tank. Light on the deadspace/faction modules, making it less of a gank target. Pimp with Caldari Navy Ballistic Controls is optional, but with stacking penalties you don't get a lot of extra damage for your money. I prefer +3-5% implants because they don't suffer a stacking penalty and don't make you quite as big a gank target as faction bling.

    Cipher Jones
    Minmatar
    Posted - 2011.07.21 15:36:00 - [15]
     

    Originally by: Cassiopeia Andromedae
    Tengu. Period.

    Try to prove me wrong.


    18.5 mil bounty ticks in a Machariel.

    hellcane
    Posted - 2011.07.21 20:31:00 - [16]
     

    There is no perfect

    Golem/Nightmare/CNR for most missions
    Tegnu for a few

    There are pro's and con's to each ship

    Mathias Orsen
    Posted - 2011.07.21 22:09:00 - [17]
     

    Edited by: Mathias Orsen on 21/07/2011 22:13:07
    Mach and vargur are my two choices. I can see how a tengu would be high on the list also though.

    The mach has more speed which is a big bonus but the vargur has better tracking. The big factor is the 70km+ range on the 800mm autocannon IIs. These will have whole rooms cleared of frigates and cruisers while the tengu's missiles are still traveling.

    I set both of these ships up to do the same thing, clear out lots of enemies before ever needing to think about tanking.

    The mach fires every 3.5 seconds and kills battlecruisers in 3 volleys at 50km+... A tengu's missiles wouldn't even get a chance to hit a BC in that time.

    Headerman
    Minmatar
    Quovis
    Shadow of xXDEATHXx
    Posted - 2011.07.22 00:45:00 - [18]
     

    If you had alot of sanctums to run through, then a rag would be the best. Split weapons into 3 groups of 2, load with titanium sabot, and alpha every BS there is. Deploy hammerhead 2's to remove frigs and cruisers, or have an acompyning thanny for that. Could clear it out in a few minutes, let a corpie or two warp in after you get all agro to clean up.

    Have a few corpies in noctis's to do that. Have a few other corpies in cloaked cov ops waiting in sanctums, then have the rag cancel warp so it can speed up in their direction, then warp as soon as all rats are dead.

    FYI, with 2 Gyro stabs, a rag has about a 5.7-5.8 second firing time

    Mavnas
    Posted - 2011.07.22 01:24:00 - [19]
     

    Originally by: grumpyguts1
    Tengu 6x T2 HML, so you can use Fury, 3 x CN BCS. Can hit 80km away tank everything. Load standard scourge for frigs cause you going to waste some DPS. Will out do any ship that needs to manage drones and range and tracking..
    Use sig rigs and implants to improve damage on smaller ships.


    Umm... Tengu really, really has to micro-manage range because of missile travel time. You have to turn your launchers off early, you have to pay attention to how far you are so you know how many vollies will be in space on their way to that target at any given time, and you have to know how many vollies your targets take to kill. That and your DPS is going to be lower than any decent battleship against big targets.

    Xercodo
    Amarr
    Xovoni Directorate
    Posted - 2011.07.22 02:59:00 - [20]
     

    Originally by: Mathias Orsen
    Edited by: Mathias Orsen on 21/07/2011 22:13:07
    Mach and vargur are my two choices. I can see how a tengu would be high on the list also though.

    The mach has more speed which is a big bonus but the vargur has better tracking. The big factor is the 70km+ range on the 800mm autocannon IIs. These will have whole rooms cleared of frigates and cruisers while the tengu's missiles are still traveling.

    I set both of these ships up to do the same thing, clear out lots of enemies before ever needing to think about tanking.

    The mach fires every 3.5 seconds and kills battlecruisers in 3 volleys at 50km+... A tengu's missiles wouldn't even get a chance to hit a BC in that time.


    this

    it's why i think a mach will always win

    physical speed as well as killing speed

    missiles cant say the same

    Crabs Collector
    Posted - 2011.07.22 09:25:00 - [21]
     

    Obviously, 'The Best Ship' all depends on wich mission you do. Machariel and tengu are both fast ships with good dps, but lack range, and the tengu lacks dps, but naturally do missions faster wich require alot of flying around. And tengu is good for low-sec missionrunning because of its GTFO.
    Nightmare does a ****load of effective dps at long range, but its em/thermal only. Paladin has a nice tractorbeam advantage wich makes life for your alt alot easier, and the Paladin is one of the best incursion running ships (provided it gets an interdiction bonus).

    Thus, my vote for the best pve ships are the Nightmare, Tengu, Machariel and Paladin :)
    Machariel probably peforms well in most situations.

    ein windirr
    Posted - 2011.07.22 09:29:00 - [22]
     

    If you played long enough(and not only you) you should know there is no best ship for everything. Period.

    Ansirem Plato
    Posted - 2011.07.22 10:53:00 - [23]
     

    I get why people are saying "there is no best" - really I do.

    But consider what you're really thinking when saying that: there are different types of missions in different types of space that benefit most sometimes from wholly different choices in ship type/ammo/etc. That is, config A will do better than config B in situation X, but the opposite may be true in situation Y. A reasonable approach to determine "best" then becomes looking at the distribution (that is, a mapping of the frequency with which each kind of situation occurs) of these different situations and determining best in that sense.

    One example a person might be satisfied with would be the configuration which achieves the highest cumulative score when testing across the distribution. Others may prefer something else, like highest weighted average, where the weights are determined by some preferential factor.

    I'm not saying this is the place to come up with such a formula, or that we even need such a precise approach to merit this discussion (quite the opposite), but I think it'd do us well to remember that we can look at it like this and definitely know that there IS a best.

    KirosawaMadFilms
    Posted - 2011.07.25 23:40:00 - [24]
     

    Edited by: KirosawaMadFilms on 25/07/2011 23:41:34
    There seems to be some consensus, the Ships with the most support are:

    Machariel
    Vargur
    Tengu


    (well done to the posted titan fit, but we are looking for high sec mish fits) Smile
    Also, i will re-emphasize that we want a ship that will do the best over a distribution of ALL missions

    I browsed Battleclinic for the most popular PVE fits that met our above criteria and did DPS fits for all three in EVE hq, here are the Results:

    (Maxed Skills, faction fits)
    Machariel: 1,392 DPS with 406 DPS omnitank, Opt + 1x Fall Range = 74km
    Vargur: 1,245 DPS with 1,282 DPS omnitank (not cap Stable), Opt + 1x Fall Range = 71km
    Tengu: 715 DPS with 431 DPS omnitank, Range 113 km
    (also sig Radius and speed will help the tengu tank)

    !! These are the top BattleClinic Fits !!, (not mine). I made minor tweaks to the drones and ammo to make them all faction and to maximize DPS. If you want to know the fits, browse BC

    !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Conclusions:
    !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


    On paper it seems like the Mach Wins, it packs a huge punch at a good range, and does so instantly. The Vargur comes in 2nd, and is better for those who want more tank / less ammo costs. The range and versatility on the tengu are very impressive, and what may make it one of the most popular ships, but its DPS just isn't high enough, along with the missile lag from long distances.

    One thing is clear, for maximum pve dps, shield tanks hold a definite advantage over armor. The valuable lows can be completely dedicated to damage and tracking mods, whereas an armor tank has to share its lows. Also, the ability to switch ammo / damage types gives artillery and missiles the upper hand.

    Considering this, it's no surprise that the favorite fits were Minmatar and Caldari based.

    Kush Monster
    Big Tobacco
    Posted - 2011.07.25 23:54:00 - [25]
     

    Edited by: Kush Monster on 25/07/2011 23:57:30
    Edited by: Kush Monster on 25/07/2011 23:56:02
    This is a more expensive fit but if you drop the AB for a hardner, I get more mileage. Also drop the medium for a Gist A-Type XL booster... 5 min cap with ******ed boost. Hardly have to worry about it.

    Also I fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuxin love the mach's falloff bonus

    [Machariel]

    7x 800mm Heavy 'Scout' Repeating Artillery I
    1x drone link augmenter

    2x Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field

    Caldari Navy Shield Boost Amplifier
    Caldari Navy Explosion Dampening Field
    Gist A-Type X-Large Shield Booster

    4x Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
    3x Republic Fleet Tracking Enhancer

    3x Large Capacitor Control Circuit I


    ------

    I know u said no mission specifics but if I run angels and seprentis (the majority of what I get) then this fit rocks the fucxin house... just drop the explosion hardner for a thermal hardner and swap your RF-Fusion for RF-Phased Plasma and watch them crumble.

    Headerman
    Minmatar
    Quovis
    Shadow of xXDEATHXx
    Posted - 2011.07.26 01:25:00 - [26]
     

    ^^^ Why no AB?

    Lyrrashae
    Minmatar
    Crushed Ambitions
    Posted - 2011.07.26 01:33:00 - [27]
     

    Edited by: Lyrrashae on 26/07/2011 01:58:40
    Edited by: Lyrrashae on 26/07/2011 01:34:23
    Vargur all the way (Bearing in mind that I've only used this on the test-server, as TQ-Lyrra needs Recons 5 before she trains Minni BS to 5):

    Even if you don't use it to loot-and-salvage, the speed with which this thing just f***ing TEARS through NPCs is seriously mind-boggling, and that's still with a basic all-Tech II fit, and the Marauders skill at level 4, Large Auto-cannon Specialisation also at level 4:

    LO:

    Damage Control II
    2x Gyrostabiliser II
    2x Tracking Enhancer II

    MID:

    LiF Booster Rockets AB
    Large Shield Booster II
    Shield Boost Amplifier II
    (3x specific hardeners, T II)

    HI:

    4x 800mm Repeating Artillery II
    2x Small Tractor Beam I
    1x Salvager I or II if you've Salvaging to level 5

    Rig:

    Large Projectile Collision Accelerator II
    Large Projectile Ambit Extender I

    Drones:

    (I just use Tech II Gallente--THM damage--for the high damage modifier, in my extensive missioning-experience you don't need anything else, really, if you've half-decent drone skills.)

    On paper this will DPS about the same or slightly better than an equally-fitted AC/AB Maelstrom, and tank somewhat better with slightly better cap-life (Don't try to make it cap-stable, no Minmatar Active Shield-Tanker can be without being massively gimped in other ways), whilst being markedly faster and more manoeuverable than a Mael.

    So you're saying, why not just stick with the Mael for 1/8th the cost? And, indeed, the AC Mael is a kick-ass, wickedly-versatile missioner with decent skills, and has served me well for what seems like forever (and I'd still keep mine for when I want/need to snipe with arty--because there is arguably no better large long-range sniper thanks to that insane Alpha-strike).

    But:

    Applied DPS. With my (SiSi-Lyrra's) skills the Varg's first-falloff range is ca. 65km with highest-damage ammo, and almost 100km with Barrage L--yes, Auto-cannons!

    The Mael would be deep in its' second-falloff at the former range even with Barrage, and thus, doing almost no damage when it hits--which it wouldn't that often. Whereas the Varg is still hitting consistently at that range for most, if not all it's damage (I'm 2-3 volleying cruiser and battlecruiser-size rats at 45-55km!). Switch to Barrage, reach out and touch people at 90+km, and even the Angel Extravaganza Bonus Room is a piece of ****, as long as you maintain range (use your speed, make sure your Overview's "Velocity" and "Tansversal" columns are on, and actually drive that boat, it helps hugely, and is fun!).

    Yes, I <3 the Vargur, and will get one on TQ...It's Minmatar versatility taken to a logical end-point, just don't use it against Gurista or Caldari NPCs due to jamming, but this is true for any Marauder (I'd use a Tengu for those).

    Aitena
    Posted - 2011.07.26 04:15:00 - [28]
     

    It has been pretty well established that for blitzing missions with top-notch skills, Tengu reins supreme, supposing that you don't mind converting LPs to isk. Get good faction standings, decline the missions you can't blitz, and blitz the easy ones. Instant isk. Works best in lowsec, where people have managed to get 200 mil/hour+ in shiny faction-fit (unprobeable) tengus. If you blitz fast enough you don't even need to be unprobeable, as once you warp to your insta-undock the pirates will have to probe you down and catch you within 3-4 minutes (hard, but doable) which is very tough.

    Headerman
    Minmatar
    Quovis
    Shadow of xXDEATHXx
    Posted - 2011.07.26 05:50:00 - [29]
     

    What would be two good Tengu setups for a dual boxer then, that are hard to probe down, and may have to RR each other?

    EvEa Deva
    Posted - 2011.07.26 09:28:00 - [30]
     

    The answer to every ship question is tengu


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