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Shemei Nephthys
Posted - 2011.07.19 01:04:00 - [1]
 

Hey is there such a things as a trading bot, I have market orders up in jita, and every time I alter the price the same guy instantly adjusts his buy orders above mine. Now I know people are going to out bid my market orders, but it seems odd that the same guy has been logged in and looking at the same item and adjusting at the same time for the past 3 days. The only way Ive been about to get around him is to change the price, he'll alter his price, then I throw in a second market order above that. That way he cant adjust his for 5 min.

Anyway is this something, or am i just paranoid

Oh and I know its the same guy because yesterday I started selling 1 unit everyone and then when he outbids me and its the same guy.

Brock Nelson
Posted - 2011.07.19 01:34:00 - [2]
 

We can't talk about it

Shemei Nephthys
Posted - 2011.07.19 01:44:00 - [3]
 

should I petition this?

Brock Nelson
Posted - 2011.07.19 01:54:00 - [4]
 

We still can't talk about it

Coffe's Babe
Caldari
Posted - 2011.07.19 02:13:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Brock Nelson
We can't talk about it

Breaker77
Gallente
Reclamation Industries
Posted - 2011.07.19 02:24:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Brock Nelson
We still can't talk about it


What can't we talk about so I know what not to talk about? Very Happy


egola
Amarr
Posted - 2011.07.19 02:25:00 - [7]
 

Edited by: egola on 19/07/2011 02:25:04
Originally by: Breaker77
Originally by: Brock Nelson
We still can't talk about it


What can't we talk about so I know what not to talk about? Very Happy




fight club........ i just broke the cardinal rule.....FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU

Tutskii
Posted - 2011.07.19 02:31:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Shemei Nephthys
Hey is there such a things as a trading bot, I have market orders up in jita, and every time I alter the price the same guy instantly adjusts his buy orders above mine. Now I know people are going to out bid my market orders, but it seems odd that the same guy has been logged in and looking at the same item and adjusting at the same time for the past 3 days. The only way Ive been about to get around him is to change the price, he'll alter his price, then I throw in a second market order above that. That way he cant adjust his for 5 min.

Anyway is this something, or am i just paranoid

Oh and I know its the same guy because yesterday I started selling 1 unit everyone and then when he outbids me and its the same guy.


Yes, there are market bots.

Yes, CCP bans them, and yes there are ways to exploit their logic to your advantage.

The best thing to do is to report it to CCP, start a petition and make sure to mention what the item is, what the location is, the time, and the conditions upon which it acts. CCP will then investigate it at their own pace. IF you neglect to mention one, or all of these things, theyll ask you for them.

You don't usually have to provide the name of the botter, CCP will monitor the item themselves.

They will not advise you of the results of their investigation, but sometimes you notice that the behaviour stops soon after reporting. Quite a pleasant coincidence, I think!

-Tutskii


Brock Nelson
Posted - 2011.07.19 02:50:00 - [9]
 

Fun killer

Charles Javeroux
Gallente
INTERSTELLAR CREDIT
Posted - 2011.07.19 05:05:00 - [10]
 

Yeah, it could be a market bot, but more often it's the real person COMPETITION. Face the fact that you are not the only one, having a lot of time to do the market bidding. Also it's called market PVP. Very Happy

egola
Amarr
Posted - 2011.07.19 05:14:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Charles Javeroux
Yeah, it could be a market bot, but more often it's the real person COMPETITION. Face the fact that you are not the only one, having a lot of time to do the market bidding. Also it's called market PVP. Very Happy


GASP! A BOT! THEY'VE BECOME SENTIENT!

Kaelie Onren
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.07.19 08:26:00 - [12]
 

report any suspicious 0.01 iskers, and CCP will eventually investigate and ban.

Though, I must say that I feel that bots for markets may not be a bad thing if it was made part of the game itself, (and there is a discussion on it in the assembly hall) but for now, best not to try it, lest you be banned.

Derrek Dracul
Posted - 2011.07.19 09:31:00 - [13]
 

Edited by: Derrek Dracul on 19/07/2011 09:32:51
so because someone is updating his orders every 5 minutes for 2-3 hours a day... he has to be a bot! burn him! Rolling Eyes
i also do this on a regular base. why? because i like it. and i make money this way. and its more interesting than mission-running.

but of course, everyone who outbids you "all the time" has to be a bot. on the other hand, your competitor might think the same of you. why? because *tadaa* you outbid him "all the time"

edit: but to comfort your suspicious nature: just write a petition to ccp. if they can detect mining-bots, they should be able to detect market bots as well.

Kaelie Onren
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.07.19 14:01:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Derrek Dracul
Edited by: Derrek Dracul on 19/07/2011 09:32:51
so because someone is updating his orders every 5 minutes for 2-3 hours a day... he has to be a bot! burn him! Rolling Eyes
i also do this on a regular base. why? because i like it. and i make money this way. and its more interesting than mission-running.

but of course, everyone who outbids you "all the time" has to be a bot. on the other hand, your competitor might think the same of you. why? because *tadaa* you outbid him "all the time"

edit: but to comfort your suspicious nature: just write a petition to ccp. if they can detect mining-bots, they should be able to detect market bots as well.


Woa there, no need to get all defensive... :) Maybe we hit a vein? Sorry.
If you should be updating every 5 min, but are not using a bot, then you have nothing to worry about. CCP has ways of detecting bots, but it involves a lot of statistical analysis, which takes time. Anyone that doubts this should read 'Freakonomics' and how sumo match fixing is detectable.


Florestan Bronstein
24th Imperial Crusade
Posted - 2011.07.19 14:11:00 - [15]
 

Edited by: Florestan Bronstein on 19/07/2011 14:13:28
Originally by: Kaelie Onren
Woa there, no need to get all defensive... :) Maybe we hit a vein? Sorry.
If you should be updating every 5 min, but are not using a bot, then you have nothing to worry about. CCP has ways of detecting bots, but it involves a lot of statistical analysis, which takes time. Anyone that doubts this should read 'Freakonomics' and how sumo match fixing is detectable.

because CCP is infallible... Rolling Eyes

e.g. they would never ever ban an afk cloaker just based on petitions saying he is a bot, now would they?

Just make sure to ask a couple of friends to report the trader that is annoying you, too. Even if he should be no bot (which you could never have anticipated as you wouldn't even think of abusing the petition system for personal gain) it might take him a few days to get his account unbanned.

Kaelie Onren
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.07.19 14:19:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Florestan Bronstein
Edited by: Florestan Bronstein on 19/07/2011 14:13:28
Originally by: Kaelie Onren
Woa there, no need to get all defensive... :) Maybe we hit a vein? Sorry.
If you should be updating every 5 min, but are not using a bot, then you have nothing to worry about. CCP has ways of detecting bots, but it involves a lot of statistical analysis, which takes time. Anyone that doubts this should read 'Freakonomics' and how sumo match fixing is detectable.

because CCP is infallible... Rolling Eyes

e.g. they would never ever ban an afk cloaker just based on petitions saying he is a bot, now would they?

Just make sure to ask a couple of friends to report the trader that is annoying you, too. Even if he should be no bot (which you could never have anticipated as you wouldn't even think of abusing the petition system for personal gain) it might take him a few days to get his account unbanned.



Never said that they were. How did you get this from Freakonomics? Besides, afk cloaking isn't using a bot, which is against EULA, so I don't know where you are going with this comparison. Anyhow, its not hard to spot a bot. They follow bumps on orders like clockwork, and keep on following even when you start unloading onto them at inflated prices. Any human would realize that they are being played, but bots work predictably, so are easy to spot.

OllieNorth
Gallente
R-K Industries
Posted - 2011.07.19 20:55:00 - [17]
 

Market PVP = getting CCP to ban your competition. I have no problems with that.

Vincent Athena
Posted - 2011.07.19 22:36:00 - [18]
 

No need for a petition, there is now a "report bot" feature. Go to the character info window of the suspect, click on the menu at the top left, and its at the bottom.

If you got the resources, you can also bid these guys up, then fill their order taking the profit for yourself.

Cassiopeia Andromedae
Posted - 2011.07.19 22:38:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Brock Nelson
We can't talk about it
Look a botter did arrive to troll a bot thread!

Cassiopeia Andromedae
Posted - 2011.07.19 22:40:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Derrek Dracul
if they can detect mining-bots, they should be able to detect market bots as well.
Now, what would happen to eve onlines economics if market bots would be banned? Think very carefully, and maybe you will figure out, why CCP will never ban those bots.

Tip: It's the same reason why market bots aren't banned IRL.

FC Tyler Durden
Posted - 2011.07.19 23:17:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: egola
fight club........ i just broke the cardinal rule.....FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU


You are no longer welcome at my club, egola.

Kaelie Onren
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.07.19 23:21:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Cassiopeia Andromedae
Originally by: Derrek Dracul
if they can detect mining-bots, they should be able to detect market bots as well.
Now, what would happen to eve onlines economics if market bots would be banned? Think very carefully, and maybe you will figure out, why CCP will never ban those bots.

Tip: It's the same reason why market bots aren't banned IRL.


They do ban market botting.
But if you want to join the debate search for market bots evil or good in assembly hall

Alisha Firesale
Posted - 2011.07.20 00:25:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Shemei Nephthys
Hey is there such a things as a trading bot, I have market orders up in jita, and every time I alter the price the same guy instantly adjusts his buy orders above mine. Now I know people are going to out bid my market orders, but it seems odd that the same guy has been logged in and looking at the same item and adjusting at the same time for the past 3 days. The only way Ive been about to get around him is to change the price, he'll alter his price, then I throw in a second market order above that. That way he cant adjust his for 5 min.

Anyway is this something, or am i just paranoid

Oh and I know its the same guy because yesterday I started selling 1 unit everyone and then when he outbids me and its the same guy.


l2pe or gb2wow.

Real market traders in eve are full time. This isnt a job its a lifestyle choice. Stop *****ing there are superior traders out there

Tutskii
Posted - 2011.07.20 01:43:00 - [24]
 

There are people that update often, and there are bots. It is not the job of the individual trader to try to identify then, and unlikely that such an endeavour would be successful without a massive expenditure of time.

This means its inefficient at best to try to make sure each suspected bot is a bot.

However, CCP has vastly more refined, efficient, and successful bot detection methods at their disposal and it is their job, and interest to do the best they can to detect and dispose of them.

I t is then best in every circumstance to report suspected botters, and CCP will then sort it out. Sreegs has shown significant competence in his efforts, and a significant decrease in market bots has been seen since fanfest by me and other people I discuss trading with, so they must go onto something.

If you report, and its truly a bot, everyone wins, CCP removes a botter, you remove unfair, automated competition from the market and enhance your experience by being able to sell, and the game becomes a bit better place.

It is for those reasons you should report whenever you have a reasonable suspicion, and mention your reasons for suspicion in the petition.

That report a bot button is there to encourage you to report more, not less!

And I believe market bots are the most damaging of all bots in this game.

Bklyn 1
Posted - 2011.07.20 19:57:00 - [25]
 

They are certainly present. Recently I put in a buy order for a Fleet Typhoon at around 250mil isk. I made it higher than the highest current buy order. I immediately checked the market and there were 6 higher buy orders within, literally, 5 seconds. Each minimally above the other. Now this is not tritanium we're talking about, so even if people could react fast enough I find it hard to believe that six people were sitting, monitoring this, feeling the need to instantly get their order in, each just happening to be a .01 isk higher than the other.

Maya Ranger
Posted - 2011.07.21 05:31:00 - [26]
 

And another bot thread....


 

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