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Lyrrashae
Minmatar
Crushed Ambitions
Posted - 2011.07.17 22:25:00 - [1]
 

(/Me smiles sardonically) Well!

Aaaaaaaall-righty, then.

So, it would seem that A/B/C/O ores are, possibly, to be removed from wormholes because...certain parties...(Let's call them "Neckbeard Man-child and the Fluffer-Squad," shall we) want to monopolise said ores for their RMT/bot-armies.

(Ref.: This thread for an excellent--and amazingly, troll/flame-freeShocked--discussion about this.)

Look, we all know whom CCP (Credibility Completely P1ssed-away) is going to favour in this when it comes to it, so instead of uselessly railing against the inevitable, I propose a fair and simple exchange between the two components of the player-base.

Tit-for-tat, turn-and-turn-about, quid pro quo, call it what you will, this is, at the end of the day, business; However misguided, wrong-headed, pig-ignorant (read the CSM meeting minutes, it is quite perfectly...incredible, the utter clueless-ness of these people), and blatantly self-serving the intent.

To whit:

In exchange for removal of ABC-O from w-space, we--that'd be the other 90-odd percent of the playerbase who say "F**k you, your lies, your greed, and your juvenile egotistical grandstanding bulls**t" to the screw-job/circle-jerk of ZeroSec--request the removal of the local channel from all ZeroSec, the removal of all Ice-asteroids from ZeroSec belts, and the requirement that ZeroSec ice-belts--if any--must be probed down.

Seems a reasonable exchange, don't you think?

Discuss, please, and...FLAME ON!

Oh, and Mittens: You are not even a bad joke. Stop. Please, just stop, whilst you still have some dignity.

(Don't blame me, I voted for the Suddenly Ninjas guy!)

Lady Spank
Amarr
In Praise Of Shadows
Posted - 2011.07.17 22:33:00 - [2]
 

I like the use of the 'juvenile' accusation amongst all those baby-tears and petulant foot-stomping.

Lyrrashae
Minmatar
Crushed Ambitions
Posted - 2011.07.17 22:38:00 - [3]
 

Originally by: Lady Spank
I like the use of the 'juvenile' accusation amongst all those baby-tears and petulant foot-stomping.



I like the well-thought out, intelligent, constructive,and articulate refutations of my actual arguments you present, and your elegant defenses of same.

</sarcasm>
*snip* Please keep it civil. Spitfire

Koti Resci
Knighthawk Light Industries
Posted - 2011.07.17 23:46:00 - [4]
 

My computer has been out of the loop for a while.

I would be absolutely livid if ABCs were removed from W-Space. WTF is with that? What piece of epic proportion did I miss???

Uuali
Posted - 2011.07.17 23:48:00 - [5]
 

Hey, hey, hey! Let's not argue over who killed who.

Lady Spank
Amarr
In Praise Of Shadows
Posted - 2011.07.17 23:55:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Lyrrashae
Originally by: Lady Spank
I like the use of the 'juvenile' accusation amongst all those baby-tears and petulant foot-stomping.



I like the well-thought out, intelligent, constructive,and articulate refutations of my actual arguments you present, and your elegant defenses of same.


I just saw puerility that wasn't worthy of an intelligent response.

Lyrrashae
Minmatar
Crushed Ambitions
Posted - 2011.07.18 00:53:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Lady Spank
Originally by: Lyrrashae
Originally by: Lady Spank
I like the use of the 'juvenile' accusation amongst all those baby-tears and petulant foot-stomping.



I like the well-thought out, intelligent, constructive,and articulate refutations of my actual arguments you present, and your elegant defenses of same.


I just saw puerility that wasn't worthy of an intelligent response.


So contribute a better alternative, else go f**k yourself, troll.

Lyrrashae
Minmatar
Crushed Ambitions
Posted - 2011.07.18 00:56:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Koti Resci
My computer has been out of the loop for a while.

I would be absolutely livid if ABCs were removed from W-Space. WTF is with that? What piece of epic proportion did I miss???



Check the link in the OP for starters, then read the CSM May/June Summit meeting-thingy minutes (cba to find the link atm, but it's on EVEFiles.)...It's quite the eye-opener.

Pod Liberator
Posted - 2011.07.18 02:03:00 - [9]
 

I like, enjoy, appreciate, love and relish in the use of all those synonyms.

Lyrrashae
Minmatar
Crushed Ambitions
Posted - 2011.07.18 02:23:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Pod Liberator
I like, enjoy, appreciate, love and relish in the use of all those synonyms.


Because derp, we're bees! That's why.

Digital Messiah
Gallente
N7 Corporation
PandaMonium.
Posted - 2011.07.18 02:39:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Lady Spank
I like the use of the 'juvenile' accusation amongst all those baby-tears and petulant foot-stomping.

I am curious to know your stand point on this issue Lady Spank. And why it is unjustified or justified either way.

Learath
Posted - 2011.07.18 02:40:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Koti Resci
My computer has been out of the loop for a while.

I would be absolutely livid if ABCs were removed from W-Space. WTF is with that? What piece of epic proportion did I miss???


Well, 0.0 submitted a list of nerfs for everybody else in the CSM meeting, and CCP said "That sounds like a great idea! Has your check cleared yet?"

Jacob Holland
Gallente
Weyland-Vulcan Industries
Posted - 2011.07.18 02:56:00 - [13]
 

I'd suggest no on the nerf...

But as a next best thing...

ABCs only to be available through gravimetric sites in -1.0 trusec systems...


Though there is just the chance that the drone regions might become valuable if that happened.

Lady Spank
Amarr
In Praise Of Shadows
Posted - 2011.07.18 11:28:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Digital Messiah
Originally by: Lady Spank
I like the use of the 'juvenile' accusation amongst all those baby-tears and petulant foot-stomping.

I am curious to know your stand point on this issue Lady Spank. And why it is unjustified or justified either way.

I've already discussed my stance in threads started by adults but basically, why should low end wormholes receive high end ores? If they want to remove them that's fine. If you don't like this change, get out of the noob wormholes.

Cry Nova
Posted - 2011.07.18 11:37:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Lady Spank
Originally by: Digital Messiah
Originally by: Lady Spank
I like the use of the 'juvenile' accusation amongst all those baby-tears and petulant foot-stomping.

I am curious to know your stand point on this issue Lady Spank. And why it is unjustified or justified either way.

I've already discussed my stance in threads started by adults but basically, why should low end wormholes receive high end ores? If they want to remove them that's fine. If you don't like this change, get out of the noob wormholes.


I believe the argument against the removal of ABC in wormholes is the biggest alliances in the game hold a monopoly on the ores in nullsec, therefore the proposed changes would only benefit them and strip other players of a chance to access these ores without being either absorbed into the alliance or harshly blackmailed out of any semblance of a profit.

Hanaestil
Posted - 2011.07.18 11:47:00 - [16]
 

ABC-Minerals will remain available in Wormholes.

They will probably removed from general gameplay, but you can aquire a "Wormhole Upgrade Module" from the NEX store for a very very small amount of AURUM to upgrade your local WH. It works similiar to the upgrades available to 0.0 Space. YARRRR!!

Caldari Acolyte
Posted - 2011.07.18 11:53:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Hanaestil
ABC-Minerals will remain available in Wormholes.

They will probably removed from general gameplay, but you can aquire a "Wormhole Upgrade Module" from the NEX store for a very very small amount of AURUM to upgrade your local WH. It works similiar to the upgrades available to 0.0 Space. YARRRR!!


Everybody in your corp must have monocule for upgrade to work..Fixed.

Asuri Kinnes
Caldari
Adhocracy Incorporated
Posted - 2011.07.18 17:38:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Lady Spank
I've already discussed my stance in threads started by adults but basically, why should low end wormholes receive high end ores? If they want to remove them that's fine. If you don't like this change, get out of the noob wormholes.


There is no such thing as *noob* wormholes.

Any wormhole is -1 truesec. ANYONE can (and do) come **** on your parade. It is *NOT* like known space (K-Space from here on out)0.0 - where there are cyno jammers, Blues, intel channels and local. In WH's, there are no intell channels, there are no blues (just "FAPS" - Friendly Aggression Pacts!) and there is no local. There is no "controlling the entrance", because the entrance can change (or be changed) behind you!

Here is a partial listing of who you would have to look out for. Those are just the *bigger* guys (and maybe not all of them!).

Two things stood out to me from the CSM Minutes:

#1 - CSM does *not* understand WH's
#1a - Current 0.0 CSM is there because people who didn't understand 0.0 proposed "fixes".
#2 - Current CSM should try to avoid addressing things they don't understand.
#2a - "Daytrippers" are not a significant source of ABC minerals, vitamins or fiber.....Rolling Eyes

Dark Reignz
Posted - 2011.07.18 18:31:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Asuri Kinnes


There is no such thing as *noob* wormholes.

Any wormhole is -1 truesec. ANYONE can (and do) come **** on your parade. It is *NOT* like known space (K-Space from here on out)0.0 - where there are cyno jammers, Blues, intel channels and local. In WH's, there are no intell channels, there are no blues (just "FAPS" - Friendly Aggression Pacts!) and there is no local. There is no "controlling the entrance", because the entrance can change (or be changed) behind you!




Wormholes detract from 0.0 becuase many many players especially high sec'ers ignore wormholes in the most part, so those that choose to live in C2 - C3 with high sec access have a relatively safe and highly profitable life in wormholes. That comes from my experience of living in said wormholes as part of a small corp and on my own with an alt.
As for those that are interested, they will 9 times out of 10 scout a wormhole, see a pos and leave especially those with very small mass limits.

As an example of detracting from living or obtaining ores from null sec, I found a C2 wormhole with high sec entrance, checked it was a static and that the hole was clear of poses etc and proceeded to jump my main in with a badger II filled with a tower and 24 hours of fuel.
Onlined it and topped the full up for a month incase I decided to stay and threw up some guns on the slim chance some loner stumbled in to investigate. With my alt still on the gate (yes watching the high sec entrance patrolling it) I proceeded to scan down some of the sites including a nice belt which I cleared the intial sleeper spawn in minutes.

At this point my alt nipped out for hulk while the main guarded the entrance and then jumped back in and mined the belt for an hour or two. The main transporting the ore to tower and back in the badger. Importantly I kept overveiw scanner on the go at all times as I knew for sure the C3 next door had a pos but no real signs of life.

Anyway I logged off in the pos a couple hours later with a nice haul of Ark and bistot and the next day I ran a couple of Anoms before packing my **** up and leaving. That 24 hours or should I say 2 or 3 active hours in the wormhole netted me 500m pure profit and little or no risk.

As for you point about controlling the entrance... you're a ******.
Probe alt can scan down all WH's in sytem everday Bookmark them for the corp and also get them bubbled... soon as a player jumps in there gonna **** themselves and probably leave. If your in an active WH corp, a couple of players can quite easily control the wormholes entrances along side the bubbles so yeah, in C2 + c3's your relatively fkin safe from invaders if you have small active corp or are clever to keep the overview scanner ticking away.

And personally If I did end up back in a small corp facing the inevitabillity of wanting or needing reletively SAFE 0.0 space to mine or run anoms in and profit then nubby c2 + c3 Wormholes are the only option in my mind. Again this detracts from the value of null sec.

Lady Spank
Amarr
In Praise Of Shadows
Posted - 2011.07.18 18:59:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Asuri Kinnes
Originally by: Lady Spank
I've already discussed my stance in threads started by adults but basically, why should low end wormholes receive high end ores? If they want to remove them that's fine. If you don't like this change, get out of the noob wormholes.


There is no such thing as *noob* wormholes.

Any wormhole is -1 truesec. ANYONE can (and do) come **** on your parade. It is *NOT* like known space (K-Space from here on out)0.0 - where there are cyno jammers, Blues, intel channels and local. In WH's, there are no intell channels, there are no blues (just "FAPS" - Friendly Aggression Pacts!) and there is no local. There is no "controlling the entrance", because the entrance can change (or be changed) behind you!

Here is a partial listing of who you would have to look out for. Those are just the *bigger* guys (and maybe not all of them!).

Two things stood out to me from the CSM Minutes:

#1 - CSM does *not* understand WH's
#1a - Current 0.0 CSM is there because people who didn't understand 0.0 proposed "fixes".
#2 - Current CSM should try to avoid addressing things they don't understand.
#2a - "Daytrippers" are not a significant source of ABC minerals, vitamins or fiber.....Rolling Eyes



Thanks for all that fascinating information that I didn't know.

Noob wormholes are the ones you can solo easily, namely C1 to C3. It's not a fixed term, its what I call them. I don't care who can come in there and kill you, these systems are for noobs (new to wormholes), the sites are easily EASILY run, and high end ores have no business being accessible there.

Lyrrashae
Minmatar
Crushed Ambitions
Posted - 2011.07.18 22:56:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Dark Reignz
Originally by: Asuri Kinnes


There is no such thing as *noob* wormholes.

Any wormhole is -1 truesec. ANYONE can (and do) come **** on your parade. It is *NOT* like known space (K-Space from here on out)0.0 - where there are cyno jammers, Blues, intel channels and local. In WH's, there are no intell channels, there are no blues (just "FAPS" - Friendly Aggression Pacts!) and there is no local. There is no "controlling the entrance", because the entrance can change (or be changed) behind you!




Wormholes detract from 0.0 becuase many many players especially high sec'ers ignore wormholes in the most part, so those that choose to live in C2 - C3 with high sec access have a relatively safe and highly profitable life in wormholes. That comes from my experience of living in said wormholes as part of a small corp and on my own with an alt.
As for those that are interested, they will 9 times out of 10 scout a wormhole, see a pos and leave especially those with very small mass limits.

As an example of detracting from living or obtaining ores from null sec, I found a C2 wormhole with high sec entrance, checked it was a static and that the hole was clear of poses etc and proceeded to jump my main in with a badger II filled with a tower and 24 hours of fuel.
Onlined it and topped the full up for a month incase I decided to stay and threw up some guns on the slim chance some loner stumbled in to investigate. With my alt still on the gate (yes watching the high sec entrance patrolling it) I proceeded to scan down some of the sites including a nice belt which I cleared the intial sleeper spawn in minutes.

At this point my alt nipped out for hulk while the main guarded the entrance and then jumped back in and mined the belt for an hour or two. The main transporting the ore to tower and back in the badger. Importantly I kept overveiw scanner on the go at all times as I knew for sure the C3 next door had a pos but no real signs of life.

Anyway I logged off in the pos a couple hours later with a nice haul of Ark and bistot and the next day I ran a couple of Anoms before packing my **** up and leaving. That 24 hours or should I say 2 or 3 active hours in the wormhole netted me 500m pure profit and little or no risk.

As for you point about controlling the entrance... you're a ******.
Probe alt can scan down all WH's in sytem everday Bookmark them for the corp and also get them bubbled... soon as a player jumps in there gonna **** themselves and probably leave. If your in an active WH corp, a couple of players can quite easily control the wormholes entrances along side the bubbles so yeah, in C2 + c3's your relatively fkin safe from invaders if you have small active corp or are clever to keep the overview scanner ticking away.

And personally If I did end up back in a small corp facing the inevitabillity of wanting or needing reletively SAFE 0.0 space to mine or run anoms in and profit then nubby c2 + c3 Wormholes are the only option in my mind. Again this detracts from the value of null sec.


There are so many things wrong and/or outright untrue with this it's not even funny. So who's alliance is your main, then?

Do their boots and the **** you happily lick off of them taste that good?

I really c/b/a to annihilate this the way it so richly deserves atm--too busy actually playing EVE--but you'll keep, for now Twisted Evil

Karak Terrel
As Far As The eYe can see
Chained Reactions
Posted - 2011.07.18 23:02:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Dark Reignz

Anyway I logged off in the pos a couple hours later with a nice haul of Ark and bistot and the next day I ran a couple of Anoms before packing my **** up and leaving. That 24 hours or should I say 2 or 3 active hours in the wormhole netted me 500m pure profit and little or no risk.



So you scanned and found a empty system. Set up a POS, with Guns. Checked out the connecting systems long enough to make sure they are all asleep. Then you mined for an hour or two. Next day run a couple of anoms, salvaged them prob with a single salvager on your combat ship. Hauled everything out including the ****load of ore you mined. Packed up the modules and the POS and shipped that to empire too. And all that in 2-3 hours of active time!

Dude, next time you make up a story make sure it is not THAT OBVIOUS!

Karak Terrel
As Far As The eYe can see
Chained Reactions
Posted - 2011.07.18 23:35:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Lady Spank

Noob wormholes are the ones you can solo easily, namely C1 to C3. It's not a fixed term, its what I call them. I don't care who can come in there and kill you, these systems are for noobs (new to wormholes), the sites are easily EASILY run, and high end ores have no business being accessible there.


There are games out there that have noob regions, eve isn't one of them. If you don't know that you prob troll to much on the forums and should fly more spaceships before you dare to speak about stuff you just heard of.

Syna Atruin
Posted - 2011.07.18 23:41:00 - [24]
 

It is my opinion that the OP hit it on the nose.

Lady Spank
Amarr
In Praise Of Shadows
Posted - 2011.07.19 00:32:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Karak Terrel
Originally by: Lady Spank

Noob wormholes are the ones you can solo easily, namely C1 to C3. It's not a fixed term, its what I call them. I don't care who can come in there and kill you, these systems are for noobs (new to wormholes), the sites are easily EASILY run, and high end ores have no business being accessible there.


There are games out there that have noob regions, eve isn't one of them. If you don't know that you prob troll to much on the forums and should fly more spaceships before you dare to speak about stuff you just heard of.


Are you suggesting C1's are equally as difficult to operate in as a C6? Are you suggesting high-level wormhole corporations are happy to spend their time running C1's? NO. The reason being that the difficulties are tiered so that you can work your way up as your experience grows. Me calling the lower tiers noob wormholes is just that.

If you are under the impression I believe this means they are safe-havens where people cannot be harmed then you really aren't reading what I said and are just being patronising.

That or you are just offended by the word noob; or the fact that my view differs from yours.

Mr Kidd
Posted - 2011.07.19 02:27:00 - [26]
 

Edited by: Mr Kidd on 19/07/2011 02:38:56
Originally by: Dark Reignz

Wormholes detract from 0.0...As for those that are interested, they will 9 times out of 10 scout a wormhole, see a pos and leave especially those with very small mass limits.

...I found a C2 wormhole with high sec entrance, checked it was a static and that the hole was clear of poses etc and proceeded to jump my main in with a badger II filled with a tower and 24 hours of fuel.
At this point my alt nipped out for hulk while the main guarded the entrance and then jumped back in...500m pure profit and little or no risk.

As for you point about controlling the entrance... you're a ******.
Probe alt can scan down all WH's in sytem everday Bookmark them for the corp and also get them bubbled... soon as a player jumps in there gonna **** themselves and probably leave.
null



I edited out the fluff.

I get the feeling that you haven't been around w-space for very long. W-space can't possibly detract from 0.0 from the perspective of resources. The logistical support just isn't available in w-space. There aren't any reliable routes out. WH mass is a limit factor. Anything static'd to hi/losec is limited to an Orca or industrial. And there's no practical refining in w-space like there is in 0.0. Sure you can use a Rorqual. But, it's compression is limited to ore in w-space. Refining in w-space is limited, at best, a 25% loss due to inefficiencies.

Lets compare what null can transport and what w-space can transport. At best you'll use an Orca which is only slightly better than an Iteron V. Compared to a single freighter it will require 22 Iteron V's to carry out the same amounts of ore. But, I seriously doubt a lot of ABC is coming out of null unrefined. So, there's that additional inefficiency w-space has to contend with, and that's a pretty big one.

So, for 1 trip in 1 freighter, a w-space pilot flying an Iteron V has to make 22 round trips. Lets assume a 45 jump trip for the freighter pilot and a 28 jump trip for the Iteron pilot with his access to hisec. The Iteron pilot has to make a total of 1,204 (yes, one thousand two hundred four) jumps to deliver the same quantities. And lets not forget that the freighter is going to be carrying minerals and the Iteron carrying ore. That's a huge difference in profitability.

So, don't tell me that w-space detracts from 0.0. I don't believe you can adequately compare your 500m profit to the amounts of isk made in 0.0 by the alliances. You should be thankful that w-space affords you that kind of profit because if you're butt was in 0.0, I seriously doubt the alliances would allow you to make it even though it's very possible to do so. So, if w-space is detracting from 0.0, it's only because the working conditions are a lot better and so is the pay. If CCP wants to change the game to favor null, that will be the nail in the coffin for me. I just won't do it. I like being able to carve out my own space with a small group of friends, not having to contend with my own alliance trying to screw me almost as much as the enemy.

Dark Reignz
Posted - 2011.07.19 05:56:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: Mr Kidd
Edited by: Mr Kidd on 19/07/2011 02:38:56
Originally by: Dark Reignz

Wormholes detract from 0.0...As for those that are interested, they will 9 times out of 10 scout a wormhole, see a pos and leave especially those with very small mass limits.

...I found a C2 wormhole with high sec entrance, checked it was a static and that the hole was clear of poses etc and proceeded to jump my main in with a badger II filled with a tower and 24 hours of fuel.
At this point my alt nipped out for hulk while the main guarded the entrance and then jumped back in...500m pure profit and little or no risk.

As for you point about controlling the entrance... you're a ******.
Probe alt can scan down all WH's in sytem everday Bookmark them for the corp and also get them bubbled... soon as a player jumps in there gonna **** themselves and probably leave.
null



I edited out the fluff.

I get the feeling that you haven't been around w-space for very long. W-space can't possibly detract from 0.0 from the perspective of resources. The logistical support just isn't available in w-space. There aren't any reliable routes out. WH mass is a limit factor. Anything static'd to hi/losec is limited to an Orca or industrial. And there's no practical refining in w-space like there is in 0.0. Sure you can use a Rorqual. But, it's compression is limited to ore in w-space. Refining in w-space is limited, at best, a 25% loss due to inefficiencies.

Lets compare what null can transport and what w-space can transport. At best you'll use an Orca which is only slightly better than an Iteron V. Compared to a single freighter it will require 22 Iteron V's to carry out the same amounts of ore. But, I seriously doubt a lot of ABC is coming out of null unrefined. So, there's that additional inefficiency w-space has to contend with, and that's a pretty big one.

So, for 1 trip in 1 freighter, a w-space pilot flying an Iteron V has to make 22 round trips. Lets assume a 45 jump trip for the freighter pilot and a 28 jump trip for the Iteron pilot with his access to hisec. The Iteron pilot has to make a total of 1,204 (yes, one thousand two hundred four) jumps to deliver the same quantities. And lets not forget that the freighter is going to be carrying minerals and the Iteron carrying ore. That's a huge difference in profitability.

So, don't tell me that w-space detracts from 0.0. I don't believe you can adequately compare your 500m profit to the amounts of isk made in 0.0 by the alliances. You should be thankful that w-space affords you that kind of profit because if you're butt was in 0.0, I seriously doubt the alliances would allow you to make it even though it's very possible to do so. So, if w-space is detracting from 0.0, it's only because the working conditions are a lot better and so is the pay. If CCP wants to change the game to favor null, that will be the nail in the coffin for me. I just won't do it. I like being able to carve out my own space with a small group of friends, not having to contend with my own alliance trying to screw me almost as much as the enemy.



Did you miss my point bro ? That is what 1 player and an alt is capable of in C1 / C2 with high end ore connected via 1 jump to High sec systems which is far safer than living in null sec surrounded by eve nasties.
The small corp I was in at the time, lived in a C2 with static High sec for a few month and mined it to shreds for billions of profit, only to be interupted by the random explores checking whether it was inhabbited. Again, not like null sec with constant villians flying through on the hunt.

**EMPHESIS ON "RELATIVELY" SAFE** with all the goodness of 0.0 and more.

Tell me this... How much can a fully modded Badger II or racial variant fit in its cargo ? and how many times can it jump in and out of a fresh or stable Static high sec entrance ? which keeps you 1 jump from safety at all times ?

Dark Reignz
Posted - 2011.07.19 06:01:00 - [28]
 

Now factor in a small to medium corps capabillities and what they are able to achieve currently in SAID wormholes with high end ores etc.

Its far more dangerous for and intruder in a combat ship to enter a WH with limited mass and time span than it is for and intruder to gank you in null sec.
They risk getting trapped and mass is limited so cannot bring to much into the worm without getting locked in. So again my opinion is C1 - c3 wormholes are far safer than null sec but can be more profitable with high end ores and this detracts from the value of null sec so I'm aggreeing that removing the high end ore from C1 - C3 isnt such a bad idea. Cool

Farmeer Morte
Posted - 2011.07.19 06:03:00 - [29]
 

Poasting right after ANOTHER Big Alliance Schill.

There are lots of you guys with no IRL life aren't there?

Dark Reignz
Posted - 2011.07.19 06:06:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Farmeer Morte
Poasting right after ANOTHER Big Alliance Schill.

There are lots of you guys with no IRL life aren't there?


Wut? another nub who doesn't get it... EVE IS REAL you know Shocked


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