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Tsukimaru
Amarr
Stargate SG-1
Fatal Ascension
Posted - 2011.07.17 19:41:00 - [31]
 

If you want turmoil and strife, remove the ability for multiple alliances to form coalitions.

Olleybear
Minmatar
I R' Carebear
Posted - 2011.07.17 20:23:00 - [32]
 

Aye, it is a happy fairy land out in 0.0 with the super coalitions and having to go 50 jumps to find a fight. I suggest that everyone come to lowsec for some solo pew pew.

I'm being serious. If people are tired of playing Eve in easy mode, come out to lowsec for solo pvp. Its one hell of a rush knowing your going to get jumped by multiple people, getting a kill, and then gtfo.

Play Eve on hard mode. Solo pvp in lowsec. You might find the harsh eve-verse you've been looking for if you do.


Soi Mala
Whacky Waving Inflatable Flailing Arm Tubemen
Posted - 2011.07.17 20:33:00 - [33]
 

I hope we'l be getting rid of the red/green text in contracts, and warning windows, and the spelled out values... Seriously, CCP have done everything in their power to stop scamming.

Bottom line is, if you can't tell the difference between 7 digits and 8 digits, you shouldn't be dealing in said digits.

This is just one of many ways that the harsh world of eve has gone soft.


Lady Spank
Amarr
In Praise Of Shadows
Posted - 2011.07.17 20:42:00 - [34]
 

Originally by: Soi Mala
I hope we'l be getting rid of the red/green text in contracts, and warning windows, and the spelled out values... Seriously, CCP have done everything in their power to stop scamming.

Bottom line is, if you can't tell the difference between 7 digits and 8 digits, you shouldn't be dealing in said digits.

This is just one of many ways that the harsh world of eve has gone soft.




Confirming this was far too much.

Equinox II
APEX ARDENT COALITION
Posted - 2011.07.17 20:49:00 - [35]
 

Would love to see the dark side of eve make a return. Will it? No. They want subscribers. Please prove me wrong!



Lyrrashae
Minmatar
Crushed Ambitions
Posted - 2011.07.17 22:41:00 - [36]
 

Originally by: Seven Duce
Originally by: Lady Spank
I hope they actually do look at ship balancing more actively. It doesn't require new art which apparently is a bottleneck to everything CCP does and there are a ton of ships that could be made viable by a few tweaks here and there.


The problem is CCP have shown time and time again that they fail at rebalancing, the only thing they know how to do is nerf, and the result is always a new 'I-win' button taking the place of the old one.

They fail even more because the last few 'tweaks' have only resulted in bigger blobs, supposedly the opposite of what CCP was trying to achieve.

Eve didnt use to be everyone flying the same few ships. But its been bad for a while and only getting worse in recent times.

Whenever CCP have tried to fix things they just make it worse..


This. +1.

Miilla
Minmatar
Hulkageddon Orphanage
Posted - 2011.07.17 22:45:00 - [37]
 

Edited by: Miilla on 17/07/2011 22:45:31



Basically highsec PVP'ing is all about "asking permission" on a NON-CONSENTUAL server (Tranquility) to dance at the undock around their handbag's (Jetsoned cans') then argue over who takes the item first... no no you first, oh no no no you first... Then it goes on to tears about it not being "fair" then they dock in a sulking huissy fit crying RR isn't fair etc etc.

That is the "nullsec" population that comes to Rens to huff and puff in local then brag how hard they are yet they cry about our ECCM Tengus and Cov-ops cloaks when we do go to Nullsec.

Nullsec players are the WORST in highsec systems.

They cry the loudest like spoilled brats stomping their feet.

Seriously, do they act like this in nullsec or w-space?


Issaries Valran
Caldari
Posted - 2011.07.17 23:10:00 - [38]
 

Originally by: ITTigerClawIK
i read this and its so true, cash is way to easy to make now, i remember "back in my day" we mined for hours for our first frigate, we never got any free ships from our tutorial misisons, took a good while before one could get into a cruiser properly and back then, Battleships were a RARE Apearance in high sec, oh yea and it cost a hell of alot more for ships way back when.

we didnt have any of this fancy crap you young whipper snappers take forgranted :-P


Some of you guys are nuts. Some how grinding for hours or days to get something ever so small has been equated to hard. Grinding is not hard it is monotonous and tedious and the only people that like grinding are people with no lives or jobs or girlfriends. Or anything of any meaning in their lives.

A lot of us may remember the supposedly “Good Old Days” when we spent weeks and months grinding for a single cruiser or battleship. And have rosy colored memories of such but it was not really fun it was just new and different. When eve was more of a job than a game we played for fun?

And if we went back to them “Good Old Days” the game would die. We are older now should have more responsibilities in life and want more meaningful game play for our time. We are not here because we need a second job. Grinding is not meaningful.

Making things harder is one thing. But asking for endlessly boring grinding is just bad game design. Making tons of Isk is not the problem having reasons to spend it on fun, engaging, meaningful game play is. There is not enough fun, engaging, meaningful game play to spend your loads of Isk on.

And vanity times do not equate fun engaging meaningful game play.

CCP needs to get away with introducing new technology in the game and look more at introducing “fun”.

The need to study “fun” more and look at how they can bring “fun” back to EVE.

Go ahead with making things harder, but do not introduce more grinding, grinding is not fun. Do introduce more fun. That is what we pay Eve for.

Tobias Sjodin
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2011.07.17 23:20:00 - [39]
 

Originally by: Royaldo
If you want eve to be harder, how about you leave pl and start your own corp?


Did that for five years, try another way to become relevant.

Ris Dnalor
Minmatar
Fleet of Doom
Posted - 2011.07.18 02:59:00 - [40]
 

Originally by: Tobias Sjodin
Quote:
MMORPG.ORG: What can players expect over the next few months with EVE?

Kristoffer Touborg (STOFFER NINJAPIRATE/CCP SOUNDWAVE):

Expect the flying in space side to be a little more old-school. We need to get back to our roots if that makes sense. I think EVE has become a little soft, as strange as it sounds. It’s really easy to make money, it’s pretty safe, it’s become too much of a happy fairy land where everyone holds hands and eats lollipops than the dystopian universe it’s supposed to be. There needs to be more opportunities for people to take massive risks and strike rich. I’ll tell you where it starts though; 0.0.
So this winter, we’re going to do two things. First of all, we’re going to crank up ship balancing efforts. Continual balancing should be part of the EVE universe, it shouldn’t be a special event that happens every year or two, it should be a constant process and that’s being kicked off. A ship, modules, everything under the sun needs a bit of a shakeup. CCP Tallest has taken the banner on this and is currently rebalancing super-caps. I think we need to give the power back to the masses, so expect to see an increased role for sub-caps. That EVE is real trailer? That’s where we need to be.

The second part is 0.0, where we’ll look at resources. Resource scarcity or exclusivity is something we’ve done really well when it comes to stuff like tech 3 and so on. In other areas, such as minerals, ice etc, we’ve not done so well. So I’d like to take some of the broadly distributed stuff and kind of slim down the availability. Hopefully that will create more professions for people, and make content that’s currently underutilized interesting again. I think people generally need some sort of identity and letting people do everything at once detracts from that.

I basically want to give some people a special set of shovels to build massive sandcastles, while at the same time giving another set of players reinforced steel boots that come with directions to stomp said sandcastles. Winter is going to be a ton of fun, whether you like creating, or just tearing everything down.


source:
MMORPG.ORG

---

I like this, EVE has become way too friendly. It used to weed out the dregs more properly in the past. Unfortunately I don't believe a word he's saying. I think CCP will continue to make EVE appeal more to a broader audience, and just like when Touborg expressed his opinion in that internal newsletter; no matter what he says or what job-title he has, he will not be able to circumvent this.

I would love it if I was proven wrong though.


Make eve harsher eh? I'd say they removal of local is going to do that very nicely. They'd have to try really hard to come up with a viable intel alternative in order for eve not to become more harsh. And even if they go against the spirit of soundwave's words and try, I think we can count on it failing miserably upon inception to the point that it won't matter, and we all know if they can't fix it within 3 months, it'll stay broken forever. So, my personal reccomendation for folks to fully enjoy this winter expansion would be to set their skill queues as follows:

Astrometrics V
Astrometric Pinpointing V
Astrometric Acquisition V
Astrometric Rangefinding V
Covert Ops V

Tralala

Ris Dnalor


Fore Khaos
Posted - 2011.07.18 03:55:00 - [41]
 

Woo! Yeah! It'll be harder to make money....unless you're a PLEX buyer that is...






















Wait, weren't we all just up in arms about EVE becoming "pay to win?" Shocked

CptConorado
Amarr
Vengeance Imperium
The Remnant Legion
Posted - 2011.07.18 04:02:00 - [42]
 

Originally by: Fore Khaos
Woo! Yeah! It'll be harder to make money....unless you're a PLEX buyer that is...






















Wait, weren't we all just up in arms about EVE becoming "pay to win?" Shocked


Just stop, you fail.

Brujo Loco
Amarr
Brujeria Teologica
Posted - 2011.07.18 04:28:00 - [43]
 

I have come to realize, that In the Forest of Troos in the Kingdom of Org, lies a putrid secret.

See, Inside Org, lived the degenerate people, people that predated the ancient cycle of the universe, these people lived in isolation and happily devoured any lost soul wandering too close to their domain.


I was there, when I finally saw the face of the Orgians. They realized themselves that digging up old relics, worthless and bereft of any value, they could sell them to the gullible merchants that dared the terrible forest and some of them actually made it back to civilization.

They sold these naive young kingdoms merchants all manner of crap, without realizing the incredible and real treasure the forest itself granted. But they grew rich indeed, if only for a while, before Stormbringer itself would dare to visit their ruined isolated fortress.

Eventually their doom was cast, but that would be another story, to be told on another day.

You know what they sold most to these simple young kingdom people?

Monocles.

The Balance has funny ways sometimes to deal with the forces of Chaos and Law.

I miss the dream of EVE, now all I have is these dancers at the end of time that don't even know how their machines work, and will probably isolate themselves in the end. I found my trip to the future interesting, but this plan of encapsulating the whole tiny solar system in a permanent loop of nothingness is simply too much.

Ciar Meara
Amarr
Virtus Vindice
Posted - 2011.07.18 06:55:00 - [44]
 

Originally by: ITTigerClawIK
eve doesnt need to compete its a niche game that caters to a certain type of player, its doesnt need to try to be everything to everyone. which is whats putting me off alot of newer titles.


I think there are alot more then +-600K carebears/gankers in the world, you just have to know to reach em. In a world full of nerds who love spaceships this is not that difficult.

I don't think people have changed that much in the years, I do think that WoW and its clones have changed the perception and marketing of MMO's into something more mainstream, this doesn't mean that every day there are people who discover Eve-Online and start loving it for what it is. As long as EVE and CCP stay true to themselves in the end, but the signs are not encouraging.

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2011.07.18 06:57:00 - [45]
 

Originally by: Tobias Sjodin
Quote:
MMORPG.ORG: What can players expect over the next few months with EVE?

Kristoffer Touborg (STOFFER NINJAPIRATE/CCP SOUNDWAVE):

Expect the flying in space side to be a little more old-school. We need to get back to our roots if that makes sense. I think EVE has become a little soft, as strange as it sounds. It’s really easy to make money, it’s pretty safe, it’s become too much of a happy fairy land where everyone holds hands and eats lollipops than the dystopian universe it’s supposed to be. There needs to be more opportunities for people to take massive risks and strike rich. I’ll tell you where it starts though; 0.0.
So this winter, we’re going to do two things. First of all, we’re going to crank up ship balancing efforts. Continual balancing should be part of the EVE universe, it shouldn’t be a special event that happens every year or two, it should be a constant process and that’s being kicked off. A ship, modules, everything under the sun needs a bit of a shakeup. CCP Tallest has taken the banner on this and is currently rebalancing super-caps. I think we need to give the power back to the masses, so expect to see an increased role for sub-caps. That EVE is real trailer? That’s where we need to be.

The second part is 0.0, where we’ll look at resources. Resource scarcity or exclusivity is something we’ve done really well when it comes to stuff like tech 3 and so on. In other areas, such as minerals, ice etc, we’ve not done so well. So I’d like to take some of the broadly distributed stuff and kind of slim down the availability. Hopefully that will create more professions for people, and make content that’s currently underutilized interesting again. I think people generally need some sort of identity and letting people do everything at once detracts from that.

I basically want to give some people a special set of shovels to build massive sandcastles, while at the same time giving another set of players reinforced steel boots that come with directions to stomp said sandcastles. Winter is going to be a ton of fun, whether you like creating, or just tearing everything down.


source:
MMORPG.ORG

---

I like this, EVE has become way too friendly. It used to weed out the dregs more properly in the past. Unfortunately I don't believe a word he's saying. I think CCP will continue to make EVE appeal more to a broader audience, and just like when Touborg expressed his opinion in that internal newsletter; no matter what he says or what job-title he has, he will not be able to circumvent this.

I would love it if I was proven wrong though.


It will be interesting to see if what he says turns into something he does.

AnzacPaul
Perkone
Posted - 2011.07.18 07:02:00 - [46]
 

Quote:
MMORPG.ORG: What can players expect over the next few months with EVE?

Kristoffer Touborg (STOFFER NINJAPIRATE/CCP SOUNDWAVE):

I think EVE has become a little soft, as strange as it sounds. It’s really easy to make money, it’s pretty safe, it’s become too much of a happy fairy land



Like by making nex items indestructible? Rolling Eyes


Oh no not that kind of soft, of course. Rolling EyesRolling Eyes

Cyaxares II
Posted - 2011.07.18 08:16:00 - [47]
 

Blizzard got burned really badly trying to make some aspects of WoW gameplay marginally harder, lost 600,000 subscriptions and had to revert many of the changes.

With that experience still very fresh in the industry I cannot imagine CCP making any "serious" changes.

Dante Marcellus
Minmatar
Belligerent Underpayed Tactical Team
Posted - 2011.07.18 08:17:00 - [48]
 

Edited by: Dante Marcellus on 18/07/2011 08:17:53
Originally by: Olleybear
Aye, it is a happy fairy land out in 0.0 with the super coalitions and having to go 50 jumps to find a fight. I suggest that everyone come to lowsec for some solo pew pew.

I'm being serious. If people are tired of playing Eve in easy mode, come out to lowsec for solo pvp. Its one hell of a rush knowing your going to get jumped by multiple people, getting a kill, and then gtfo.

Play Eve on hard mode. Solo pvp in lowsec. You might find the harsh eve-verse you've been looking for if you do.




+1

I get more anxiety jumping into a low-sec system, looking for a fight than I do randomly wandering into 0.0.

In fact, I remember a while back I went through 30 0.0 gates before I found a single player.

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2011.07.18 09:00:00 - [49]
 

Originally by: Cyaxares II
Blizzard got burned really badly trying to make some aspects of WoW gameplay marginally harder, lost 600,000 subscriptions and had to revert many of the changes.

With that experience still very fresh in the industry I cannot imagine CCP making any "serious" changes.


At the risk of making generalisations, EVE offers a rather different experience and caters to a different demographic than WoW.

Important Person
Posted - 2011.07.18 09:08:00 - [50]
 

Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Cyaxares II
Blizzard got burned really badly trying to make some aspects of WoW gameplay marginally harder, lost 600,000 subscriptions and had to revert many of the changes.

With that experience still very fresh in the industry I cannot imagine CCP making any "serious" changes.


At the risk of making generalisations, EVE offers a rather different experience and caters to a different demographic than WoW.


Maybe they're tired of catering to the whiny, entitled, pvp leetoid demographic for little or no thanks.

Look at Ultima Online, pure pvp world at launch, enter griefers / leetoids, after a year or so normal players leaving. They split the world into two facets, trammel and felucca so all can be happy. Another eight years of popularity.

Miilla
Minmatar
Hulkageddon Orphanage
Posted - 2011.07.18 09:10:00 - [51]
 

Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Cyaxares II
Blizzard got burned really badly trying to make some aspects of WoW gameplay marginally harder, lost 600,000 subscriptions and had to revert many of the changes.

With that experience still very fresh in the industry I cannot imagine CCP making any "serious" changes.


At the risk of making generalisations, EVE offers a rather different experience and caters to a different demographic than WoW.


You mean the demographic that quit over NEX and the new miniture fat japaneese ninja's with big wallets to spend on ingame stores?


Incarna Lottery
Posted - 2011.07.18 09:22:00 - [52]
 

Edited by: Incarna Lottery on 18/07/2011 09:22:43
Originally by: Morganta
lol, we had one of the most fail nights last night...
I lost 2 canes, nother guy lost that, a vaga and more (almost a bill of stuff)
we had **** dropping like jetcans on a dueling station.

seriously, we were the cursed fleet or something

there was NO handholding of any sort going on Rolling Eyes
I do recall getting my ass handed to me, but that's about it YARRRR!!



It was a hell of fight! and props for you guys engage Smile

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2011.07.18 09:49:00 - [53]
 

Originally by: Important Person
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Cyaxares II
Blizzard got burned really badly trying to make some aspects of WoW gameplay marginally harder, lost 600,000 subscriptions and had to revert many of the changes.

With that experience still very fresh in the industry I cannot imagine CCP making any "serious" changes.


At the risk of making generalisations, EVE offers a rather different experience and caters to a different demographic than WoW.


Maybe they're tired of catering to the whiny, entitled, pvp leetoid demographic for little or no thanks.

Look at Ultima Online, pure pvp world at launch, enter griefers / leetoids, after a year or so normal players leaving. They split the world into two facets, trammel and felucca so all can be happy. Another eight years of popularity.


maybe so. I am sure that any business would rather deal with people like you instead.

Cashcow Golden Goose
Posted - 2011.07.18 09:51:00 - [54]
 

CCP are back to the true business of Eve, making big promises that they will partially deliver.

Skippermonkey
Tactical Knightmare
Posted - 2011.07.18 10:05:00 - [55]
 

Touborg is taking away my lolipop :'(

xxxTRUSTxxx
Posted - 2011.07.18 10:13:00 - [56]
 

Originally by: Issaries Valran
Originally by: ITTigerClawIK
i read this and its so true, cash is way to easy to make now, i remember "back in my day" we mined for hours for our first frigate, we never got any free ships from our tutorial misisons, took a good while before one could get into a cruiser properly and back then, Battleships were a RARE Apearance in high sec, oh yea and it cost a hell of alot more for ships way back when.

we didnt have any of this fancy crap you young whipper snappers take forgranted :-P


Some of you guys are nuts. Some how grinding for hours or days to get something ever so small has been equated to hard. Grinding is not hard it is monotonous and tedious and the only people that like grinding are people with no lives or jobs or girlfriends. Or anything of any meaning in their lives.

A lot of us may remember the supposedly “Good Old Days” when we spent weeks and months grinding for a single cruiser or battleship. And have rosy colored memories of such but it was not really fun it was just new and different. When eve was more of a job than a game we played for fun?

And if we went back to them “Good Old Days” the game would die. We are older now should have more responsibilities in life and want more meaningful game play for our time. We are not here because we need a second job. Grinding is not meaningful.

Making things harder is one thing. But asking for endlessly boring grinding is just bad game design. Making tons of Isk is not the problem having reasons to spend it on fun, engaging, meaningful game play is. There is not enough fun, engaging, meaningful game play to spend your loads of Isk on.

And vanity times do not equate fun engaging meaningful game play.

CCP needs to get away with introducing new technology in the game and look more at introducing “fun”.

The need to study “fun” more and look at how they can bring “fun” back to EVE.

Go ahead with making things harder, but do not introduce more grinding, grinding is not fun. Do introduce more fun. That is what we pay Eve for.


how to have Fun

1 - undock

2 - hang with people who enjoy the company of eachother

3 - don't hang with people who are boring ****s

4 - Fun has to be worked for, like any relationship, eve is a sand box fun doesn't come in a nice parcel.

5 - do various things in game which may lead to fun.

i'm sorry i had to point these things out, i thought most people understood the concept of fun and how to obtain it.
i remember mining forever to get my first cruiser built, it took a long time, but, here it comes, i was hanging out with good mates while doing it, great laughs, chat and lots of learning from guys who knew their stuff.
why do we call it a long time to mine way back then, because we where mining in frigates, it wasn't that long compared to now with a hulk.
which drove me to train for a hulk, nothing is broke in eve, game is working as intended.

hanging with good mates kills the monotonous and tedious side of it, like they say, time flies when your having fun.

people whine way too much on the forums, EVE is what you make of it, get off your arse and work for the fun you seek.
if you want a fast fix of fun, log off and go watch a comedy.

or find people in game that make you laugh, people who undock and go have some fun.

or finaly, if that fails, maybe eve isn't the game for you if you don't find it to be fun no matter what you do.

which should lead to this > unsub, the DOOR Rolling Eyes is that way >>>>>>>>



Neamus
Posted - 2011.07.18 11:25:00 - [57]
 

Originally by: Issaries Valran
Originally by: ITTigerClawIK
i read this and its so true, cash is way to easy to make now, i remember "back in my day" we mined for hours for our first frigate, we never got any free ships from our tutorial misisons, took a good while before one could get into a cruiser properly and back then, Battleships were a RARE Apearance in high sec, oh yea and it cost a hell of alot more for ships way back when.

we didnt have any of this fancy crap you young whipper snappers take forgranted :-P


Some of you guys are nuts. Some how grinding for hours or days to get something ever so small has been equated to hard. Grinding is not hard it is monotonous and tedious and the only people that like grinding are people with no lives or jobs or girlfriends. Or anything of any meaning in their lives.

A lot of us may remember the supposedly “Good Old Days” when we spent weeks and months grinding for a single cruiser or battleship. And have rosy colored memories of such but it was not really fun it was just new and different. When eve was more of a job than a game we played for fun?

And if we went back to them “Good Old Days” the game would die. We are older now should have more responsibilities in life and want more meaningful game play for our time. We are not here because we need a second job. Grinding is not meaningful.

Making things harder is one thing. But asking for endlessly boring grinding is just bad game design. Making tons of Isk is not the problem having reasons to spend it on fun, engaging, meaningful game play is. There is not enough fun, engaging, meaningful game play to spend your loads of Isk on.

And vanity times do not equate fun engaging meaningful game play.

CCP needs to get away with introducing new technology in the game and look more at introducing “fun”.

The need to study “fun” more and look at how they can bring “fun” back to EVE.

Go ahead with making things harder, but do not introduce more grinding, grinding is not fun. Do introduce more fun. That is what we pay Eve for.


The problem is that the pendulum has swung too far the other way. Loosing a ship, a fleet of ships, or heck even a fleet of supercaps, just doesn't mean anything. A part of the thrill of PvP for many people was / is that a loss means something, that its harsh. Currently it doesn't.. You might say that this is a good thing because it encourages people to PvP more, PvP arcade style... But if that's true than why isn't there more going on?

I don't want to see the horrific grind returning, I don't think anyone does tbh, but I do want to see incomes drop somewhat, and more risk involved to making isk. Lets face it, mission running, or even heading out to null and milking sanctums all day is hardly risky is it.

Walextheone
The Red Circle Inc.
Posted - 2011.07.18 11:50:00 - [58]
 

Really like the idea on what's coming up. Ship balancing, more pvp focus and makeing Eve more grim.

As a long wormhole dweller I see how easy it's to make ISK, not just by killing sleepers but also by gas harvesting.
L4/L5 missions and faction warfare pve is also super easy money.



Miilla
Minmatar
Hulkageddon Orphanage
Posted - 2011.07.18 11:54:00 - [59]
 

Originally by: Walextheone
Really like the idea on what's coming up. Ship balancing, more pvp focus and makeing Eve more grim.

As a long wormhole dweller I see how easy it's to make ISK, not just by killing sleepers but also by gas harvesting.
L4/L5 missions and faction warfare pve is also super easy money.







CCP are only doing the balancing act because it is cheap, all they do is change a few attributes. No new content.

The only real new content that is also cheap (costs them 1 day outsourced to China - CCP's own words) is NEX clothing.


Kerrisone
Posted - 2011.07.18 12:04:00 - [60]
 

Originally by: Neamus
Originally by: Issaries Valran
Originally by: ITTigerClawIK
i read this and its so true, cash is way to easy to make now, i remember "back in my day" we mined for hours for our first frigate, we never got any free ships from our tutorial misisons, took a good while before one could get into a cruiser properly and back then, Battleships were a RARE Apearance in high sec, oh yea and it cost a hell of alot more for ships way back when.

we didnt have any of this fancy crap you young whipper snappers take forgranted :-P


Some of you guys are nuts. Some how grinding for hours or days to get something ever so small has been equated to hard. Grinding is not hard it is monotonous and tedious and the only people that like grinding are people with no lives or jobs or girlfriends. Or anything of any meaning in their lives.

A lot of us may remember the supposedly “Good Old Days” when we spent weeks and months grinding for a single cruiser or battleship. And have rosy colored memories of such but it was not really fun it was just new and different. When eve was more of a job than a game we played for fun?

And if we went back to them “Good Old Days” the game would die. We are older now should have more responsibilities in life and want more meaningful game play for our time. We are not here because we need a second job. Grinding is not meaningful.

Making things harder is one thing. But asking for endlessly boring grinding is just bad game design. Making tons of Isk is not the problem having reasons to spend it on fun, engaging, meaningful game play is. There is not enough fun, engaging, meaningful game play to spend your loads of Isk on.

And vanity times do not equate fun engaging meaningful game play.

CCP needs to get away with introducing new technology in the game and look more at introducing “fun”.

The need to study “fun” more and look at how they can bring “fun” back to EVE.

Go ahead with making things harder, but do not introduce more grinding, grinding is not fun. Do introduce more fun. That is what we pay Eve for.


The problem is that the pendulum has swung too far the other way. Loosing a ship, a fleet of ships, or heck even a fleet of supercaps, just doesn't mean anything. A part of the thrill of PvP for many people was / is that a loss means something, that its harsh. Currently it doesn't.. You might say that this is a good thing because it encourages people to PvP more, PvP arcade style... But if that's true than why isn't there more going on?

I don't want to see the horrific grind returning, I don't think anyone does tbh, but I do want to see incomes drop somewhat, and more risk involved to making isk. Lets face it, mission running, or even heading out to null and milking sanctums all day is hardly risky is it.


It is different for all players, some people will feel a loss of a ship and some won't some alliances/corps won't feel the loss of supercaps or fleets of ships others might. It isn't a simple solution to make thinks 'harder' for everyone when it isn't the same across the board.

Mission running in general isn't that risky but if you are in hisec in a standard BS how risky should it be? Should CCP make it easier and more lucrative to suicide every other BS that undocks? Heading out to null on your own and milking sanctums is still risky where you do it, etc unless of course they are 'your' sanctums in 'your' space surrounded by blues then it is SAFER.

What Issaries Valran said is valid CCP needs desperately to invest in 'fun' because they have put almost none of it in the game, ever, the fun in EVE comes from players. To fight grinding they need to make things actually fun to develop content but they aren't interested in that they want to make players create it all while they cash in.

Perfect example 'fun' could have been making incarna clothes/items, but CCP didn't go that route, fun might be the smuggling they allude to we'll have to wait and see.


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