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Balkor Wolf
Rekall Incorporated
Posted - 2011.07.17 11:10:00 - [1]
 

I've been wanting to train to fly Command Ships and noticed that along the way I will need to train for AFs and HACs so thought I might as well learn to fit them properly since ill be training the skills up.

My question is how useful is a Hawk/Harpy for PVP? I'm presuming that for gang roaming (What I mostly do when I PVP) it will be used primarily for tackle.

Is it worth spending an extra while to train up for turret support skills as well or will the DPS of rockets (And missiles for the HAC + Command Ship) Be sufficient enough that it's still considered useful?

Finally what are peoples experience of flying an AF in a gang? Do you find yourself being a primary target often or do the higher resists mean your not going to be bothered as much as T1 ships?

Thanks for any help ^_^

Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
Posted - 2011.07.17 11:50:00 - [2]
 

AF's are pretty fat, the Caldari ones even more so as they not only have low'ish speeds but high'ish sigs (before extenders).
Use a nos in any case as you will be neuted to hell and back so having prop-mod and tackle active can be difficult.

AF's have a very narrow niche available to them, cruisers are cheaper and generally better at just about everything but they in turn are trumped by tier2 BCs.

On the whole AF's are fairly gimped and in dire need of the 4th bonus that has been slated as Soon™ for over two years Sad

Othran
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2011.07.17 12:01:00 - [3]
 

A gang of AFs is pretty fun. It happens once in a blue moon - ie hardly ever.

Solo they're OK - well the Wolf and Jag are, as are the Ishkur and Enyo (yes really). I don't have any personal experience of Caldari or Amarr AFs other than shooting at them. I hear good things about rocket AFs now, never tried them myself.

FCs (ones with a clue anyway) will be sorting the target list on the basis of the threat to the gang and then probably on personal threat level. In short you are unlikely to get primaried beacuse you fly an AF, you'll get primaried because of where you are and what you're doing/capable of.

mxzf
Minmatar
Shovel Bros
Posted - 2011.07.17 13:17:00 - [4]
 

In my experience the Cal AFs are somewhat lack-luster, but AFs in general are actually pretty sweet ships. I absolutely love my Ishkur, I'm using it for exploration right now and the minimal ammo usage is awesome (it might take me more than a week to go through 2k CN Antimatter S ammo, the drones do all the damage).

From what I've seen/heard, the Ishkur, Jag, Wolf, and (now) Vengeance are somewhat better than the rest of the AFs, but they're all pretty good. And they have amazing tank for a frig too.

Jamradar
Minmatar
Autocannons Anonymous
Posted - 2011.07.18 02:23:00 - [5]
 

not sure about amarr/caldari AF's, but in general, they are pretty much frigs on roids.
A lone AF can punch way above it's belt if flown right. A pack of AF's can scare away frig fleets and depending on the pilots, can give cruiser/bc gang a good punch in the nose. Most of their magic comes from their damage bonuses, natural resist boosts, and of course their frig size.

With that said, they're still frig hulls, so many factors can prove disastrous.

Hypnagogia Ichinumi
Posted - 2011.07.18 03:30:00 - [6]
 

My only experience with Caldari AF's so far has been in PvE so I can't say much other than they're pretty fun to fly, and can do most L3 missions with little problem, other than being fairly inefficient.
As for PvP capabilities, This article may provide helpful. It explains the pros/cons of all the AFs and gives a little insight into their various roles and abilities in PvP.

Andrea Griffin
Posted - 2011.07.18 04:57:00 - [7]
 

Solo, both the Hawk and Harpy are decent ships. Not great, and not worth their cost (unless, like me, you have a love affair with frigate hulls). They're slow and clumsy, and so have trouble catching things, and have large sigs for a frig so attacking cruisers is dicey.

Blaster Harpy can do nice damage to anything it can catch. Fit with rails you can snipe out to 50k, but why not grab a Caracal with more EHP, greater range, and more damage at less than half the cost?

Hawk works alright with an MSE fit, okay-ish wish a booster fit. If your opponent has a neut, you're dead. You CAN pimp fit the Hawk to get some incredible tank, but... Why bother?

I feel that the Vengeance is the better of the two missile AFs. You're not coerced into Kinetic damage and it has better survivability overall.

Calling a Caldari AF primary is lulzy if there's anything else on the field. You'll be pretty safe compared to the rest of your gang.

Both Hawk and Harpy are trumped easily by the Winmatar Jag and Wolf, as usual.

If your primary goal is to tackle, spend a few days to get Interceptors up to 4. The Raptor isn't the best, but it can tackle and it's cheap.

Ivelios d'Sanquine
Posted - 2011.07.18 08:03:00 - [8]
 

the harpy is not half bad, go 4 blasters and a nos.

as for the hawk then its crap due to its dps so in pvp i would not sugest flying it thou i laugh my ass off when i saw one taking ceptors and dramiels out with duble web's but i will not sugest doing that. go with the harpy, blasters, afterburner and all that crap and u shall be fine.

Lady Spank
Amarr
In Praise Of Shadows
Posted - 2011.07.18 10:58:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Ivelios d'Sanquine
i laugh my ass off when i saw one [hawk] taking ceptors and dramiels out with duble web's but i will not sugest doing that.


It's worth doing for this exact reason; people underestimate these [Hawk, Enyo, to some extent Vengeance] underdogs and you get fights where you simply wouldn't in a Harpy, Wolf, Ishkur etc.

TaluxA
Posted - 2011.07.18 12:05:00 - [10]
 

Quote:
i saw one taking ceptors and dramiels out with duble web's but i will not sugest doing that.


Why not? Dramiels make nice expensive killmails and have a high chance of dropping good loot.

whaynethepain
Dissident Aggressors
Mordus Angels
Posted - 2011.07.19 12:03:00 - [11]
 

I use assault frigates as secondary tackle, with web n scram they can take primary fire for some time. They are too slow to be fast tackle, but can uncloak with a micro warp drive fitted.

They are a good start. Learn them well, it only takes a few weeks to fit them out.

Cattegirn
Intellectual Wookies
Posted - 2011.07.19 14:28:00 - [12]
 

Kill interceptors which are already tackling, kill support frigates, kill normal frigates. Cruisers do these things but worse. Cruisers are cheaper.

Cordo Draken
ABOS Industrial Enterprises
Posted - 2011.07.19 19:51:00 - [13]
 

Wow, tough crowd on the Caldari AFs. I've flown both Harpy and Hawk. Harpy is my favorite as with just 4 Ion Blasters, I can dish out 290 DPS, while maintaining a 110 defense rated active tank and goes about 950 m/s. Granted not the fastest, but it also has a web to help keep targets and a Nos to help vs neuting. Being Cald AF, I really wish i had a 5th mid, but it's a tough ship and skirmishes have proven it over the beloved wolf and Jag. Of course it all comes down to piloting skill, but don't let the nay sayers tell you they are crap... They are far from it. As far as choosing AF over cruiser... Yeah cruiser is cheaper, but AFs in general are damn fun to fly! So, it comes down to your preference. Cool

Bluejacket CT
Percussive Diplomacy
Posted - 2011.07.20 23:34:00 - [14]
 

AFs are by far my favorite ship in the game. They're built for the solo roamer, somebody who's got the guts to fly a ship so small in a world of frig-ganking douchebag Machariels. They've got tank and gank, without any cheap tricks up their sleeves. They function purely on pilot competency, both in how they are fit and how they are flown. They move around the universe quickly, at 6 AU a second, looking for targets wherever it can find them. Some of the best kills can be accomplished with an AF, they have the tank to withstand drones and neutralize them, and the sig radius to get under the tracking of medium guns. Just by being in a frigate makes every kill so much more impressive. Sure, you can neut and kill a faction fit Dramiel in a Hurricane - but it's always a better killmail when you pull it off in a T2 fit AF.

And of course the best part; there is a culture to them. If you're ever interested in getting away from the local-flaming man-child culture of blob warfare, go out and solo in an AF. You'll respect your opponents a lot more and they'll respect you back.

Hidden Snake
Caldari
Inglorious-Basterds
Posted - 2011.07.21 10:41:00 - [15]
 

AFs in packs are awsome ... wolfpacks FTW

Cattegirn
Intellectual Wookies
Posted - 2011.07.21 18:12:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Hidden Snake
AFs in packs are awsome ... wolfpacks FTW


Pretty much every combat ship is awesome in packs.

Chatgrus
Posted - 2011.07.21 23:19:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Cattegirn
Originally by: Hidden Snake
AFs in packs are awsome ... wolfpacks FTW


Pretty much every combat ship is awesome in packs.


Ravens are awesome in packs?

Lady Spank
Amarr
In Praise Of Shadows
Posted - 2011.07.22 00:54:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Chatgrus
Originally by: Cattegirn
Originally by: Hidden Snake
AFs in packs are awsome ... wolfpacks FTW


Pretty much every combat ship is awesome in packs.


Ravens are awesome in packs?


Yes

William Walker
Amarr
House Aratus
Fatal Ascension
Posted - 2011.07.22 06:54:00 - [19]
 

Felt good man. I didn't realize there were some canes with us though, the one cane obviously did the most work, but we tackled that that Tempest (he had a typhoon bro nearby) nicely and ate his shields away and he couldn't hit us for ****. In total our AFs did 48% of the damage. Not bad, if I do say so myself, but could be better. As usual, the more the merrier.

Lady Go Diveher
The Independent Troll Society
Posted - 2011.07.22 12:00:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: William Walker
Felt good man. I didn't realize there were some canes with us though, the one cane obviously did the most work, but we tackled that that Tempest (he had a typhoon bro nearby) nicely and ate his shields away and he couldn't hit us for ****. In total our AFs did 48% of the damage. Not bad, if I do say so myself, but could be better. As usual, the more the merrier.


So what you're saying is, one ~20mil hull outdamaged FOUR ~20mil (un-insurable) hulls combined, and there's no issues to gleam from that?

OK.

William Walker
Amarr
House Aratus
Fatal Ascension
Posted - 2011.07.22 12:13:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Lady Go Diveher
So what you're saying is, one ~20mil hull outdamaged FOUR ~20mil (un-insurable) hulls combined, and there's no issues to gleam from that?

OK.


What did you expect? They are assault frigates, not battlecruisers. It isn't an issue. Also, you weren't there. I was there.

Oh and a hurricane in fountain is a little more expensive than 20mil. Surprisingly the assault frigates, depending on the race, are cheaper than highsec. Maybe because no one flies them.

Bluejacket CT
Percussive Diplomacy
Posted - 2011.07.24 00:27:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Lady Go Diveher

So what you're saying is, one ~20mil hull outdamaged FOUR ~20mil (un-insurable) hulls combined, and there's no issues to gleam from that?

OK.


ISK and DPS aren't the only two things that determine the value of a ship, as I said before there is a lot more to an AF than just stats and fleet theorycraft. The ships are best suited for the lone wolf (pun intended), solo roaming and PvPing in a world of bad blobbers.

Tzrailasa
Tzrailasa Corp
Posted - 2011.07.24 01:29:00 - [23]
 

Been a while since I've actually flown one, but AF's can be fun when used in numbers Cool

This is a thread from a few years back when BoB went on an AF roam. We hadn't had that much fun in weeks (and we all died horribly as Molle had promised)...

I summed it up at that time in post #20 in the thread.

I likegirls
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.07.24 03:41:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Lady Spank
Originally by: Chatgrus
Originally by: Cattegirn
Originally by: Hidden Snake
AFs in packs are awsome ... wolfpacks FTW


Pretty much every combat ship is awesome in packs.


Ravens are awesome in packs?


Yes


Even a pack of Lady Spanks alt would be good.

Dirk Magnum
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
Posted - 2011.07.26 00:46:00 - [25]
 

Blaster Harpy goes well with other close-range AFs. Hawk should forego tackle and fit light missiles for use at long range. Fit an alternative EWar mod like an SD instead. Hawk can't withstand a close-range brawl in a gang situation anyway so it's got to stay on the fringe of the battle. At the speed its missiles move you'll lose out on maybe one volley that won't make it to the target before someone else kills it.

Aerion Va'rr
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2011.07.26 07:04:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Lady Spank
Originally by: Chatgrus
Originally by: Cattegirn
Originally by: Hidden Snake
AFs in packs are awsome ... wolfpacks FTW


Pretty much every combat ship is awesome in packs.


Ravens are awesome in packs?


Yes


If you can warp it in at 0 on something.

Torp Raven gangs will do tremendous damage, until someone capitalizes on the fact that they have a **** tank.

Ikeo58
Caldari
Reformed Fr33ks
Posted - 2011.07.26 11:11:00 - [27]
 

I fly a Harpy in our WH for tackling and killing Probe ships. Works really well TBH.

Highs
125mm Railgun II
125mm Railgun II
125mm Railgun II
125mm Railgun II

Mids
Stasus Web II
Stasus Web II
1MN Microwarp II
Warp Scram II

Lows
Damage Control II
200mm Rolled Tungsten plate

I accidently tackled a Drake and Brutix who came through our WH and thought Oh **** im going to Die but the drake hit for 20 a volley and the brutix hit for 70 but missed alot.

Needless to say i stayed and tackled easily enough until help arrived :)

AF are underatted next to intercepters and they are fun to whizz arount in - Also dirt Cheap

Issac Haydron
Posted - 2011.07.29 02:02:00 - [28]
 

get a jaguar Very Happy


 

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