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Pok Nibin
Amarr
Posted - 2011.07.16 08:11:00 - [1]
 

The last time I cooked a meal for my family I made them stand before it, arrayed on the kitchen counter and LOOK at it for exactly one (timed) minute, because I knew they were going to wolf it down, and go their merry ways leaving me (after the four hours I spent preparing it) with a table of dishes to clear and wash. (I love this kind of lead.) I did this so they might APPRECIATE the meal (if that were at all possible.)

And, isn't this like (the hook) a cadre of game players who “played closed beta” and “have been here the entire time,” that are of the mind they deserve more attention than “the rest of us?” I've seen this in every game I've played. This group BLOWS through the content like crap through a goose (thanks General Patton), then clamors on the forums for MORE CONTENT!

I know we're all essentially playing in a building as it's being built. The final vision of the game designers is a work in progress and eventually, when it's achieved, new players will come along to play within this huge architecture which was envisioned then executed by some pretty inventive, creative and skilled people, all for the purpose of fun. It's really kind of cool we can play in it before it's finished. What's cool also is, they can continue to add floors making the potential pretty much open-ended over time.

What BUGS me is, it's difficult to endure the tantrums, condemnations, castigating, and just all around rudeness of this chosen few who obviously don't have the skills or talents to build a game, such is EVE Online, but failing that think their every opinion, observation and suggestion merits the undivided attention of all concerned, cause frankly, they're really the only truly cool people in the game since (right) they've been here the whole time, and the developers of the game are there just to cater to them.

Believe it or not I started playing computer games thirty years ago since it was a way to get away from people like this, but since it no longer takes intelligence to play a computer game, everyone and their cousin is now registered with a groovy nick and throwing their weight around like they own the place – which they don't. But, don't try telling THEM that, since they've made it their life's goal to not listen to anybody anyway. When you're the coolest of cool, you don't have to, right? Everybody, instead, has to listen to YOU.

I look at this game as CCP's canvas. They can paint on it what they want. When I paint, and some “person” suggests I “this” or “that” to my painting, I think to myself, “What an idiot.” I'm painting this. If you want that, go paint that. Odd how they usually can't paint anyway, but really know how YOU should.

So, more power to you CCP. Put up here what fits your vision. If I don't like it, I'll just move along. If that's a problem for you, it's your problem and you probably (contrary to prevailing opinion) know what you want to do about it better than me, or these yucks who are such experts on everything but anything of significance.

Jonathan Ferguson
JC Ferguson and Son Ltd
Ferguson Alliance
Posted - 2011.07.16 08:16:00 - [2]
 

You know what really sucks? If that feast ever arrives, it will be in spite of fanbois like you and because of people like me. But you'll get to enjoy it too.

Buy a clue and get some self-respect, FFS. If you like paying a premium so that you can get lied to and sold a broken product that you then get double-billed for, that's great. Rational people don't.


Pok Nibin
Amarr
Posted - 2011.07.16 08:20:00 - [3]
 

Originally by: Jonathan Ferguson
You know what really sucks? If that feast ever arrives, it will be in spite of fanbois like you and because of people like me. But you'll get to enjoy it too.

Buy a clue and get some self-respect, FFS. If you like paying a premium so that you can get lied to and sold a broken product that you then get double-billed for, that's great. Rational people don't.


Boy? Feel again. What I said wasn't a blanket approval of anything CCP has done. It's a statement of their right to do it. Thanks for tipping your hand. Now we know what group you're in.

There's nothing wrong with helpful suggestions, as long as they were solicited. Just because you suggest something doesn't mean it's up for canonization, boy.




Jonathan Ferguson
JC Ferguson and Son Ltd
Ferguson Alliance
Posted - 2011.07.16 08:22:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: AkJon Ferguson
Son, we live in a world that has walls. And those walls have to be guarded by men with brains. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Fanboi? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom.

You weep for Soundwave and you curse the Bitter Vets. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know: that Soundwave's firing, while tragic, probably saved hangars. And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves hangars...

You don't want the truth. Because deep down, in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that wall. You need me on that wall. We use words like ehonor, code, sandbox...we use these words as the backbone to a life spent defending something. You use 'em as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very hangar I provide, then questions the manner in which I provide it! I'd rather you just said thank you and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a keyboard and make a post. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you're entitled to!

Pok Nibin
Amarr
Posted - 2011.07.16 08:24:00 - [5]
 

Thanks for sharing.


Abrazzar
Posted - 2011.07.16 08:26:00 - [6]
 

I might post more, but the forum takes a minute or two to even load a page right now, so I really can't be bothered.

Besides, constructive feedback has been proven futile in the past, just look at all the good ideas (among a usual throng of bad ones) in the Features and Ideas forum and how they never even partially get used for development. Just look at the flogging the dead horse about a POS overhaul, it's been years.

Jonathan Ferguson
JC Ferguson and Son Ltd
Ferguson Alliance
Posted - 2011.07.16 08:34:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Abrazzar
I might post more, but the forum takes a minute or two to even load a page right now, so I really can't be bothered.

Besides, constructive feedback has been proven futile in the past, just look at all the good ideas (among a usual throng of bad ones) in the Features and Ideas forum and how they never even partially get used for development. Just look at the flogging the dead horse about a POS overhaul, it's been years.


But dude, it's CCP's canvas, bro. And if they want to fling ***** at their canvas, well that's just too damn bad.

Oh wait, no, you're a customer, that's right. And CCP sold you a long-term vision and you accepted it and invested years of your life and hundreds or even thousands of hours of your spare time in it and now they're throwing that vision overboard and ****ing you. And lying about it. And laughing at you.

Originally by: Jonathan Ferguson
CCP offered an implicit social contract to its customers: Accept a steep learning curve, a LONG time investment (years to reach the equivalent of max level,) a clunky interface, and a game best played with multiple accounts and we'll give you the best Internet Spaceships MMO sandbox there is and keep on improving it until it is (essentially) perfect.

A lot of us honored our end of the agreement. CCP stopped honoring theirs.

Ukhata
Minmatar
No Option
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2011.07.16 08:37:00 - [8]
 

2 people with the same conviction just different viewpoints.
love it :D

Pok Nibin
Amarr
Posted - 2011.07.16 08:43:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Jonathan Ferguson
Oh wait, no, you're a customer, that's right.
No, I'm a subscriber. I can always cancel. Even as a customer, just because I buy the milk, I don't have the right to tell them how to run the dairy. Such minor points seem to be lost on you.

Originally by: Jonathan Ferguson
And CCP sold you a long-term vision and you accepted it and invested years of your life and hundreds or even thousands of hours of your spare time in it and now they're throwing that vision overboard and ****ing you. And lying about it. And laughing at you.


At this point it gets rather difficult to take you seriously. Maybe you should try the decaf.

Originally by: Jonathan Ferguson
CCP offered an implicit social contract to its customers: Accept a steep learning curve, a LONG time investment (years to reach the equivalent of max level,) a clunky interface, and a game best played with multiple accounts and we'll give you the best Internet Spaceships MMO sandbox there is and keep on improving it until it is (essentially) perfect.

I read this a lot, to the point of nauseum, on this forum, but aside from a statement of intent, I've seen no documentation that such a contract exists. I know when I began my SUBSCRIPTION, there was nothing of the sort. I guess some people's imaginations have been working overtime.

And you still haven't addressed the issue of the OP, which is CCP's right to make their product according to their vision, not yours. But, I can see why you'd be hesitant to say.

Again, thanks for sharing.


Cpt Sc4rlet
Posted - 2011.07.16 08:47:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Jonathan Ferguson
Originally by: AkJon Ferguson
Son, we live in a world that has walls. And those walls have to be guarded by men with brains. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Fanboi? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom.

You weep for Soundwave and you curse the Bitter Vets. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know: that Soundwave's firing, while tragic, probably saved hangars. And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves hangars...

You don't want the truth. Because deep down, in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that wall. You need me on that wall. We use words like ehonor, code, sandbox...we use these words as the backbone to a life spent defending something. You use 'em as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very hangar I provide, then questions the manner in which I provide it! I'd rather you just said thank you and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a keyboard and make a post. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you're entitled to!



A few good men.

Vyl Vit
Minmatar
Cambio Enterprises
Posted - 2011.07.16 08:50:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Cpt Sc4rlet
Originally by: Jonathan Ferguson
Originally by: AkJon Ferguson
Son, we live in a world that has walls. And those walls have to be guarded by men with brains. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Fanboi? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom.

You weep for Soundwave and you curse the Bitter Vets. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know: that Soundwave's firing, while tragic, probably saved hangars. And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves hangars...

You don't want the truth. Because deep down, in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that wall. You need me on that wall. We use words like ehonor, code, sandbox...we use these words as the backbone to a life spent defending something. You use 'em as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very hangar I provide, then questions the manner in which I provide it! I'd rather you just said thank you and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a keyboard and make a post. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you're entitled to!



A few good men.


These aren't the ramblings of a man. They are the rantings of a child pretending he knows what manhood is.


Jonathan Ferguson
JC Ferguson and Son Ltd
Ferguson Alliance
Posted - 2011.07.16 08:54:00 - [12]
 

CCP has the legal right to make EVE into vampire space barbies. Was that the point of your OP? Fine, I agree. Thank-you for expressing such a brilliant opinion.

/thread

(As for your dairy analogy (which is even more ******ed than your canvas analogy, but whatever) you're damn right that I can tell CCP dairy to stop peeing in my milk and to get stuffed if they think they're going to charge me extra for a lid when they already charge more for their milk than any other dairy.)

Pok Nibin
Amarr
Posted - 2011.07.16 08:58:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Jonathan Ferguson
CCP has the legal right to make EVE into vampire space barbies. Was that the point of your OP? Fine, I agree. Thank-you for expressing such a brilliant opinion.

/thread

(As for your dairy analogy (which is even more ******ed than your canvas analogy, but whatever) you're damn right that I can tell CCP dairy to stop peeing in my milk and to get stuffed if they think they're going to charge me extra for a lid when they already charge more for their milk than any other dairy.)


Thanks for posting on a thread that obviously doesn't interest you. Such integrity is...noteworthy.

Wreckar
Posted - 2011.07.16 09:03:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Jonathan Ferguson
You know what really sucks? If that feast ever arrives, it will be in spite of fanbois like you and because of people like me. But you'll get to enjoy it too.

Buy a clue and get some self-respect, FFS. If you like paying a premium so that you can get lied to and sold a broken product that you then get double-billed for, that's great. Rational people don't.




FFS dude. You're not accomplishing anything. If you don't like this game, play another game. It's getting old.

Zey Nadar
Gallente
Unknown Soldiers
Posted - 2011.07.16 09:32:00 - [15]
 

There are still some angry people around. Im not one of them though.

ThirdEyeBlenny
Posted - 2011.07.16 09:48:00 - [16]
 

Edited by: ThirdEyeBlenny on 16/07/2011 10:53:54
Edited by: ThirdEyeBlenny on 16/07/2011 10:52:42
Originally by: Jonathan Ferguson
CCP has the legal right to make EVE into vampire space barbies. Was that the point of your OP? Fine, I agree. Thank-you for expressing such a brilliant opinion.

/thread

(As for your dairy analogy (which is even more ******ed than your canvas analogy, but whatever) you're damn right that I can tell CCP dairy to stop peeing in my milk and to get stuffed if they think they're going to charge me extra for a lid when they already charge more for their milk than any other dairy.)



You really are in every thread aren't you? You spoke to me about 'real life' in another thread... Its clear to me that a real life is something you can't possibly have... If you did, you wouldn't be so angry :)

Originally by: Jonathan Ferguson
And CCP sold you a long-term vision and you accepted it and invested years of your life and hundreds or even thousands of hours of your spare time in it and now they're throwing that vision overboard and ****ing you. And lying about it. And laughing at you.


Southpark youtube linky Right, I'm off outside to do something constructive now...

EDIT: Sorting out my link.

Dante Marcellus
Minmatar
Belligerent Underpayed Tactical Team
Posted - 2011.07.16 10:42:00 - [17]
 

Slowly but surely, the logical ones will writhe into the seams between the illogical and the inane and on the day when we are finally delivered from this mindless insanity, the dead will walk the Earth.

Okay, I have no idea what I just wrote right there, but I enjoyed reading your post, because I've been waiting for someone else to share this viewpoint.

And of course, the people you mention will come stamping into this thread, but that's alright! Keep making posts like this! Seeing it enough times will help it "sink in" for the rest of the "community" that still hasn't figured it out.

Grog Barrel
Posted - 2011.07.16 12:56:00 - [18]
 

Edited by: Grog Barrel on 16/07/2011 12:56:52
Originally by: ThirdEyeBlenny

You really are in every thread aren't you? You spoke to me about 'real life' in another thread... Its clear to me that a real life is something you can't possibly have... If you did, you wouldn't be so angry :)




Woah, i am shocked to see, how much Wisdom can exist in a single brain. Why would I ever be scared of anything done by mankind since now, after knowing that such enlightened characters are among us.

Kirkland Langue
Posted - 2011.07.16 13:09:00 - [19]
 

Do you charge your family a monthly rent so that they can look forward to your 4-hour meal?

Spurty
Caldari
V0LTA
VOLTA Corp
Posted - 2011.07.16 13:16:00 - [20]
 

Haha +1

I'm still waiting on a thread where players demand CCP wipes their butts better.

"the customer is always right" attitude died years ago when it was discovered to be an even more moronic meme than "u mad".


Shizu Eisenkreuz
Minmatar
Republic Military School
Posted - 2011.07.16 13:46:00 - [21]
 

As a new EVE player (less than 2 months), but old MMO player (started in the mid 90s with ultima online), I have to say this is one of the most pathetic excuses of a forum community I've ever seen.
General forum, that is. The specific sections, on the other hand, are some of the best.

Why is this one one of the worst?
The whiners and "desperate to look uber-smart with total strangers over the internet" kids are exactly the same of any other MMO communiy, so nothing really new.
But I find incredibly sad how the average EVE forumer (not player) is so completely full of ****, just because he plays a *slightly* more complex game. All of a sudden, everyone feels entitled to defecate terrible walls of text about marketing, sociology, programming and world economics. Not to spark decent debates (good luck on a gaming forum), but just dropping them as concrete blocks of absolute, irrefutable truth.

So, what to expect from such mature and informed gamers when they expect the game do die within months?
We are not talking about a minor setback here, but a complete debacle. The death of the game, at least according to the mentioned minority of forum prophets.
I know what I would do and what I did in the last 16 years when I grew bored of a game, or a game went down a path I didn't like.
I would move along. I'd stop giving money to a company I don't trust anymore.
I definitely would NOT keep paying multiple accounts (PLEX or money is irrelevant) to keep the privilege of whining on the official forum.

But these people are literally married to this game and can't even grasp the concept of leaving it to try different things.
I wonder if these people usually go to a restaurant they hate and pay money for food they don't like, only for the privilege of insulting and tantruming the chef.

So, while I agree 100% with the OP, I usually ignore these debates and ALWAYS ignore the whiners.
Makes for a way more enjoyable gaming experience.

Ramma Lamma DingDong
Posted - 2011.07.16 14:00:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Jonathan Ferguson
You know what really sucks? If that feast ever arrives, it will be in spite of fanbois like you and because of people like me. But you'll get to enjoy it too.

Buy a clue and get some self-respect, FFS. If you like paying a premium so that you can get lied to and sold a broken product that you then get double-billed for, that's great. Rational people don't.





Hahahaha. This is one of those that thinks he is "saving" the game for the rest of us. Please...stop...posting. Go outside, get some air. I fear for you, this much trolling of forums cannot possibly be healthy and that inflated sense of self worth cannot possibly be easy to live with.

Get help. Seriously, you are in every...single...thread spouting the same nonsense and you really believe people care what you have to say. They don't.

Ceptia Cyna
Posted - 2011.07.16 14:02:00 - [23]
 

I do care cause he is right.

Serene Repose
Caldari
Perkone
Posted - 2011.07.16 14:44:00 - [24]
 

Edited by: Serene Repose on 16/07/2011 14:47:30

Originally by: Ceptia Cyna
I do care cause he is right.


He's right in his convoluted sense of fact, and rather liberal use of truth, which you apparently share. Personally, I wish all games would be exactly the way I want them to be. AND, I wish all the players preferred them that way. Woe and alas, 't will never be the case.

Regardless of how much time, effort and money the malcontents think they've invested in EVE, the belief this constitutes an investment in real terms is delusional. Paying for a subscription thinking you're inching your way into the management, and policy arm of CCP, then one day believing you can call in those chips? I've got a bridge in San Francisco I'll sell you. It's orange.

But, trying to make the rest of the community become actors in your psycho-drama? Good luck with that. Call names. Insult. Stamp your feet and scream for all I care, ain't gonna happen. The idea someone thinks it could does make one tend to hand out a few 1-800-HERES-YOUR-SHRINK numbers.

Finally, if you righteously enraged people don't realize CCP has heard all your complaints by now, and you're just repeating yourselves, with all the elegance of scratching auto paint with your fingernails, then you really do need help. If you DO realize that, then you're intentionally spamming the board, and I insist the management use the banstick at once!

When is enough enough? When baby finally passes out exhausted.
My way or the highway? Have a nice trip.


Pok Nibin
Amarr
Posted - 2011.07.16 14:50:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Kirkland Langue
Do you charge your family a monthly rent so that they can look forward to your 4-hour meal?


Where were you when I needed you? I'd be rich. RICH!!

Simetraz
Posted - 2011.07.16 14:58:00 - [26]
 

The Threadnought will never be over as long as (ex)players continue to say one thing and do another.

Funny how it works both ways Very Happy


MatrixSkye Mk2
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.07.16 15:19:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: Jonathan Ferguson
If you like paying a premium so that you can get lied to and sold a broken product that you then get double-billed for, that's great. Rational people don't.
You know, the irony of your statement is that the one that feels he's being lied to, double-billed, and being sold a broken product all the while paying for it is YOU. And even though you believe these things you're STILL here.

When is your subscription up? In 2 years? 3 Rolling Eyes? Please do tell, when did YOU fake-quit?


TrimethylChromiumdioxide
Caldari
Infinatech
Posted - 2011.07.16 15:27:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Pok Nibin
Originally by: Jonathan Ferguson
Oh wait, no, you're a customer, that's right.
No, I'm a subscriber. I can always cancel. Even as a customer, just because I buy the milk, I don't have the right to tell them how to run the dairy. Such minor points seem to be lost on you.

Originally by: Jonathan Ferguson
And CCP sold you a long-term vision and you accepted it and invested years of your life and hundreds or even thousands of hours of your spare time in it and now they're throwing that vision overboard and ****ing you. And lying about it. And laughing at you.


At this point it gets rather difficult to take you seriously. Maybe you should try the decaf.

Originally by: Jonathan Ferguson
CCP offered an implicit social contract to its customers: Accept a steep learning curve, a LONG time investment (years to reach the equivalent of max level,) a clunky interface, and a game best played with multiple accounts and we'll give you the best Internet Spaceships MMO sandbox there is and keep on improving it until it is (essentially) perfect.

I read this a lot, to the point of nauseum, on this forum, but aside from a statement of intent, I've seen no documentation that such a contract exists. I know when I began my SUBSCRIPTION, there was nothing of the sort. I guess some people's imaginations have been working overtime.

And you still haven't addressed the issue of the OP, which is CCP's right to make their product according to their vision, not yours. But, I can see why you'd be hesitant to say.

Again, thanks for sharing.




A subscriber is a customer you twit. Paying for a service is the same as paying for a commodity. You're still a customer, even if you're paying a subscription for a service.

Roosterton
Eternal Frontier
Posted - 2011.07.16 15:34:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: TrimethylChromiumdioxide
Originally by: Pok Nibin
Originally by: Jonathan Ferguson
Oh wait, no, you're a customer, that's right.
No, I'm a subscriber. I can always cancel. Even as a customer, just because I buy the milk, I don't have the right to tell them how to run the dairy. Such minor points seem to be lost on you.

Originally by: Jonathan Ferguson
And CCP sold you a long-term vision and you accepted it and invested years of your life and hundreds or even thousands of hours of your spare time in it and now they're throwing that vision overboard and ****ing you. And lying about it. And laughing at you.


At this point it gets rather difficult to take you seriously. Maybe you should try the decaf.

Originally by: Jonathan Ferguson
CCP offered an implicit social contract to its customers: Accept a steep learning curve, a LONG time investment (years to reach the equivalent of max level,) a clunky interface, and a game best played with multiple accounts and we'll give you the best Internet Spaceships MMO sandbox there is and keep on improving it until it is (essentially) perfect.

I read this a lot, to the point of nauseum, on this forum, but aside from a statement of intent, I've seen no documentation that such a contract exists. I know when I began my SUBSCRIPTION, there was nothing of the sort. I guess some people's imaginations have been working overtime.

And you still haven't addressed the issue of the OP, which is CCP's right to make their product according to their vision, not yours. But, I can see why you'd be hesitant to say.

Again, thanks for sharing.




A subscriber is a customer you twit. Paying for a service is the same as paying for a commodity. You're still a customer, even if you're paying a subscription for a service.


Paying for a product earns you the right to use that product.

It doesn't earn you the right to say "This product sucks, make it better." It DOES earn you the right to say "This product sucks, make it better or I'll stop using it." Except this Ferguson moron doesn't seem interested in quitting, he's either trolling or he actually thinks people will listen to his weightless opinion.

Last Star Fighter
Posted - 2011.07.16 15:41:00 - [30]
 

I HOPE THE PLAYERS THAT QUIT NEVER COME BACK. CCP HAS WORKED FOR YEARS AND YEARS TO PROVIDE QUALITY ENTERTAINMENT FOR THOSE FOOLS AND THIS IS HOW THEY REPAY THEM. BY RUNNING OFF TO SOME TOY ROBOT GAME THAT LOOKS LIKE IT IS STILL IN EARLY BETA.

GOOD RIDDANCE I SAY. PLEASE DO THE REST OF US LOYAL CUSTOMERS A FAVOR AND NEVER COME BACK. IT TRULY IS FUNNY BECAUSE THE SECOND CCP INTRODUCES THE NEXT SHINNY THEY WILL BE BEGGING TO COME BACK. THAT AND WHEN THEY REALIZE THE SIMPLE FACT THAT IS:

CCP IS THE BEST OUT THERE. BETTER THAN BLIZZARD, BETTER THAN THOSE NOOBS MAKING THAT TOY ROBOTS GAME (WHICH IS NOTHING BUT A TOTAL AND COMPLETE RIP OFF OF EVE-ONLINE). CCP IS THE BEST AND US LOCAL CUSTOMERS ARE THE BEST COMMUNITY OUT THERE.

SO BE GONE TRAITORS, I HOPE YOU NEVER COME BACK.


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