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Sidquol Alland
Posted - 2011.07.16 05:37:00 - [1]
 

As a disclaimer, please don't take anything I'm saying here as an insult to eve online. I'm posting this as a newbie to get some things clarified for me so I can make an informed decision if I want to continue playing or not.

I started with the 14 day trial not long ago. I have upgraded my account to paid service and paid for another month but I'm barely out of the 2 weeks. So far I am enjoying the game so far, but it's getting monotonous very quickly.

When I initially saw screenshots for this game and read about it, I was picturing piloting my own spaceship to be pretty fun. So, I was disappointed to learn after actually starting the game that you don't really pilot your own ship with WASD, or a joystick or anything - you just click on targets and choose whether you want to approach, orbit, or keep at a certain distance. Yes, I'm aware you can double click a point in space to begin flying in that direction.

I went through all the tutorial missions and of all the professions and agent missions combat ones are the prime ones that interest me. After working my way up the ranks to solo level 3 missions, and going on a couple of level 4 missions with my corporation I'm seeing that these missions are just a bit tedious and don't seem to require much skill. I set to orbit a target at my optimal weapons range and begin firing. If my ship starts to get weak I click on repair systems. They die. I click on the next target. Rinse, wash, repeat, warp out. There seems to be very little input required from me, and much of the time I'm playing in these battles I'm just sitting watching my screen.

So where's the skill involved? How is PvP combat different? (I have yet to participate in PvP) Please describe to me the intricacies of advanced Eve ship combat.

And once again please don't get me wrong if this post sounds overly critical of the game. I've already paid for a month so I am enjoying it. And as far as a little more background goes for my experience, I'm playing a Minmatar chaacter. My ship usage has been Rifter --> Thrasher ---> Stabber----> the Hurricane I'm currently using.

Thanks in advance for any information provided.

Jack Tronic
Posted - 2011.07.16 05:48:00 - [2]
 

Edited by: Jack Tronic on 16/07/2011 05:50:01
PVP is about tactics, fittings, compositions, gang types, intel, planning, decision making, etc. (Don't mistake PVP with station camping though like orphans and other war deccers). A single wrong move as simple as the wrong ammo type can welp a small gang.

Xercodo
Amarr
Xovoni Directorate
Posted - 2011.07.16 05:59:00 - [3]
 

Originally by: Jack Tronic
Edited by: Jack Tronic on 16/07/2011 05:50:01
PVP is about tactics, fittings, compositions, gang types, intel, planning, decision making, etc. (Don't mistake PVP with station camping though like orphans and other war deccers). A single wrong move as simple as the wrong ammo type can welp a small gang.


this

Alara IonStorm
Caldari
Posted - 2011.07.16 06:08:00 - [4]
 

Edited by: Alara IonStorm on 16/07/2011 06:13:38
Edited by: Alara IonStorm on 16/07/2011 06:11:47
Originally by: Sidquol Alland
I was disappointed to learn after actually starting the game that you don't really pilot your own ship with WASD, or a joystick or anything

Try Black Prophecy and Battlestar Galactica Online for that kind of flight. They are both F2P and BSGO has ships the size of Battlecruisers you can fly as well as the Basestar and Battlestar for a short time. BP needs to be downloaded BSGO is played in a Browser but still has excellent Graphics.

Originally by: Sidquol Alland

So where's the skill involved? How is PvP combat different? (I have yet to participate in PvP) Please describe to me the intricacies of advanced Eve ship combat.


EVE PVP is a different anamal then most games, while the two I mentioned above are twitch based, EVE O is Tactical Based. The skill is using your set up being in a fleet gang or solo to out preform there set up. It isn't a factor of more expensive ship wins(Not Counting Supercaps OC) but how you fly a ship and what is equiped.

For Instance some basic EVE stragey.

*Using a fast ship to Kite them out of there weapons/web range holding them with a Warp Disruptor and striking from long range.

*Rushing them, Webing and Scraming them then tearing them apart with close range Guns while Tanking them.

*Firing at them from 30-50km while another ship holds them.

*Using Cloaking Devices to appear when they are vulnerable.

*Using EWAR such as TD's and Neuts to limit there combat ability.

*Using a small ship thats hard to track to get under there guns.

By using Logistics(Healing), Advance Tackle such as Bubbles or Bonused Ships, EWAR, Range, Speed, Size, Damage, Tank you can make your ship or gang more difficult to counter by the enemy. On other forums people describe EVE PVP as Tackle, Orbit and DPS... I see why they are playing another game and silently thank them for probably being a killmail.

This game at it's heart is all about stategy. Flying in a PVP Ship means two things, you have to base your fit around what you need done and need to use the right ship for the job.

Here is a bit of strategy on a bigger scale. Battleships were the fleet choice with Logistics providing heavy DPS. Then people used fast Armor T2 Cruiser's to avoid tackle and use speed and sig to avoid there big guns making it easy to kill them or used long range ammo and speed to stay out of there range. The solution that was used to counter this threat was Sheild Battlecruisers mostly Missile Drakes and Arty Canes who's acurate weapons could hit them with more DPS and who's tanks could take there fire. The Problem with them is Battlecruisers were bigger then T2 Cruisers and Battleships could hit them for heavy Dmg and Tank there Dmg.
Choosing what to bring and how you use it matters in a big way. Doesn't matter if there is 1 of you, or 2 or 5 or 20 or 50 or 100 or 500. What matters is that you are prepared for what you will face.

Zarus Alexander
Posted - 2011.07.16 06:09:00 - [5]
 

Edited by: Zarus Alexander on 16/07/2011 06:10:36
Just out of the two weeks and in a hurricane? That's a recipe for disaster. You may want to work on some of your core support skills a bit more. Also, this is going to get moved to Warfare and Tactics, called it!

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2011.07.16 06:10:00 - [6]
 

Edited by: Akita T on 16/07/2011 06:15:08

Originally by: Sidquol Alland
I was disappointed to learn after actually starting the game that you don't really pilot your own ship with WASD, or a joystick or anything

Some guys actually wrote an "interface" for a joystick Twisted Evil
Yes, you CAN control your interceptor with a joystick in EVE.
But you need a 3rd party app to do it.
Razz

P.S. If you're curious on how they do it, it's rather simple, actually - at least once per second, they move the mouse cursor and send a double-click in the point on the EVE window where you'd have to double-click in order to get your ship to move in the same way you'd expect it to move if you controlled it with a joystick.

P.P.S. It should be doable for CCP to implement THAT one for key/mouse/joystick "flight-sim-like" controls, but they wouldn't want to, because it would heavily increase client-server communications (right now, your client only sends data when it needs to, and that could be even just once per minute ; with this system, it sends data each and every second).

Kin Netics
Posted - 2011.07.16 06:26:00 - [7]
 

Look its like this, the toughest thing in eve is keeping your account active to train skills..........

Florestan Bronstein
24th Imperial Crusade
Posted - 2011.07.16 07:12:00 - [8]
 

Edited by: Florestan Bronstein on 16/07/2011 07:16:52
Originally by: Sidquol Alland
So where's the skill involved? How is PvP combat different? (I have yet to participate in PvP) Please describe to me the intricacies of advanced Eve ship combat.

Except for solo/super small gang pvp (both of which is dead anyways) the "micro" skills you are thinking about are not really important and the little you need can be picked up very fast.
Managing transversal & range, overheating and capacitor are the core areas you have to pay attention to in small gang pvp.
In large groups you just keep at range or orbit your anchor, do everything the fleet commander tells you to and if you die nobody can/will blame your personal skills for it.

EVE is running in 1s time-steps so any twitch-based gameplay is excluded by design.

PvP mostly requires knowledge about fittings, fleet compositions, ...

Real Skill in EVE is almost exclusively centered around "people skills" like your leadership qualities, diplomatic abilities, ...

One of the reasons I am somewhat disappointed by EVE is that I have been playing it for almost three years now and I honestly cannot say that I have improved at the game past the first year or so.

With other games you can sit down, practice and get better at the game - in EVE you have almost all the knowledge you need after a few months of reading & trying stuff and making this knowledge translate into in-game competency is not really a challenge.

The biggest "skill" required to succeed in EVE is the patience to stick with the game for a long time despite its shortcomings and failures.

Dradius Calvantia
Creative Cookie Procuring
Rote Kapelle
Posted - 2011.07.16 07:20:00 - [9]
 

First off, I was of a similar mindset to you when I first started playing EVE. I quit for quite some time after completely burning out on the mission content EVE had to offer. Missions are horribly repetitive, uninteresting, and easy. Thankfully, they are a very very small part of what EVE has to offer. When I cam back to EVE, I decided to explore the other aspects of the game. For PVE, IMO worm holes provide the most interesting content; not the least of which is the possibility of PVP at any moment.

PVP is where this game really shines though. I strongly disagree with the opinion that combat is as simple as click orbit, activate modules, and wait. That is how bad pilots fly their ships.

In reality, you have to prioritize targets, manage distance not just to your target, but to all other ships on the field, figure out the most effective way to use your available resources, think about where the warp-able objects in system are and wither or not you can stay aligned to one while still doing everything else you need to, pay attention to all the intel sources you can, and think ten steps ahead of the hostiles.

PVP is a thinking game, it is about knowing the game mechanics better than the other guy, having a better picture of what is going on, and out thinking him. If that is what you are looking for, there is no better place to find it than EVE.

Bronden Neopatus
Posted - 2011.07.16 07:21:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Sidquol Alland
As a disclaimer, please don't take anything I'm saying here as an insult to eve online. I'm posting this as a newbie to get some things clarified for me so I can make an informed decision if I want to continue playing or not.

I started with the 14 day trial not long ago. I have upgraded my account to paid service and paid for another month but I'm barely out of the 2 weeks. So far I am enjoying the game so far, but it's getting monotonous very quickly.

When I initially saw screenshots for this game and read about it, I was picturing piloting my own spaceship to be pretty fun. So, I was disappointed to learn after actually starting the game that you don't really pilot your own ship with WASD, or a joystick or anything - you just click on targets and choose whether you want to approach, orbit, or keep at a certain distance. Yes, I'm aware you can double click a point in space to begin flying in that direction.

I went through all the tutorial missions and of all the professions and agent missions combat ones are the prime ones that interest me. After working my way up the ranks to solo level 3 missions, and going on a couple of level 4 missions with my corporation I'm seeing that these missions are just a bit tedious and don't seem to require much skill. I set to orbit a target at my optimal weapons range and begin firing. If my ship starts to get weak I click on repair systems. They die. I click on the next target. Rinse, wash, repeat, warp out. There seems to be very little input required from me, and much of the time I'm playing in these battles I'm just sitting watching my screen.

So where's the skill involved? How is PvP combat different? (I have yet to participate in PvP) Please describe to me the intricacies of advanced Eve ship combat.

And once again please don't get me wrong if this post sounds overly critical of the game. I've already paid for a month so I am enjoying it. And as far as a little more background goes for my experience, I'm playing a Minmatar chaacter. My ship usage has been Rifter --> Thrasher ---> Stabber----> the Hurricane I'm currently using.

Thanks in advance for any information provided.


Please, make my day, go on a Lvl4 yourself alone, without yor corporation doing the tank & gank for you.

Then come back to tell me how it doesn't takes any skill to survive a juicy Lvl4 (Worlds Collide, The Blockade, any Lvl4 Extravaganza...) in a T1 BS with just a few weeks worth of training...

(Sbdy. had to interrupt the PvP c*ck s*cking, as if we weren't aware that PvPr's idea of a nice fight is jumping on PvE fits and/or miners, or blobbing another gang 3 to 1)

Florestan Bronstein
24th Imperial Crusade
Posted - 2011.07.16 07:22:00 - [11]
 

Edited by: Florestan Bronstein on 16/07/2011 07:27:57
Originally by: Dradius Calvantia
In reality, you have to prioritize targets, manage distance not just to your target, but to all other ships on the field, figure out the most effective way to use your available resources, think about where the warp-able objects in system are and wither or not you can stay aligned to one while still doing everything else you need to, pay attention to all the intel sources you can, and think ten steps ahead of the hostiles.

In a fleet of 200 one person does the job you describe.

Pok Nibin
Amarr
Posted - 2011.07.16 07:35:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Bronden Neopatus
(Sbdy. had to interrupt the PvP c*ck s*cking, as if we weren't aware that PvPr's idea of a nice fight is jumping on PvE fits and/or miners, or blobbing another gang 3 to 1)
(Shhhhh, we're not supposed to know that. PvP is so "heroic" after all.)

I agree with Bronden. If you're competent, meaning you've got the correct array of skills trained to the correct level, and can pilot a ship that's sufficient to the cause, soloing the level four missions he mentioned would be a good measure of your own proficiency as a pilot. In the end, that's the main thrust (pardon the pun, or not), unless you want to manufacture and work the market.

The game reaches its depth in a good corporation. In a good alliance is icing on the cake. The dynamics of cooperating, and coordinating wildly different people into a cohesive force, setting and meeting objectives should be experienced as well, before you can make a final, honest assessment. These things do take time, and even some luck, but what else do you have but time to spend on a game such as this?

Fly safe...even though the ships don't fly cause flying involves an airfoil and atmosphere...pilot safe...sounds kinda odd. BE SAFE, have fun.


Capt Sly
Posted - 2011.07.16 07:39:00 - [13]
 

Edited by: Capt Sly on 16/07/2011 07:39:36
Honestly you and corpies just suck.

Find a real corp, grow a pair and deal with it.

Dradius Calvantia
Creative Cookie Procuring
Rote Kapelle
Posted - 2011.07.16 08:01:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Bronden Neopatus

Please, make my day, go on a Lvl4 yourself alone, without yor corporation doing the tank & gank for you.

Then come back to tell me how it doesn't takes any skill to survive a juicy Lvl4 (Worlds Collide, The Blockade, any Lvl4 Extravaganza...) in a T1 BS with just a few weeks worth of training...

(Sbdy. had to interrupt the PvP c*ck s*cking, as if we weren't aware that PvPr's idea of a nice fight is jumping on PvE fits and/or miners, or blobbing another gang 3 to 1)


With a few week old character.. of course you are not going to survive a lvl 4 mission. But once you have even just a few months of training under your belt, you would have to purposely throw your ship away to die in a mission. I used AFK lvl 4 blockades in an Ishtar when I was very young in the game to make a little extra cash. All I had to do was enter mission, argo rats, drop sentries, and come back 30 min later to salvage. Missions are absolutely 0 risk when done correctly.

Incursions were at least slightly challenging for a few weeks while all the high sec bears tried to figure out how to work together, but now they are just as simple. It takes an average fleet less than 6 min to clear an OTA site with basically 0 risk of losing any ships.

As far as fleet PVP goes, yeah it is worse than missions. I avoid 0.0 SOV warfare like the plague because you are right, there is no skill in blobbing. Small gang PVP is far from dead though, you just have to actually go looking for it. My area of experience happens to be in worm hole PVP. 90% of it takes place with groups of 3-7 players.

Yes, we gank some PVE fit ships running anoms every now and then, but worm hole space is unsecured. If you want to run sites there, you have to fly fits that can deal with an ambush (hint, prop mods make a big difference), scout and secure the area, and fly in groups. If you want to be lazy and do none of those things, then yes you are going to get killed by any roaming PVP gang that stumbles across you.

I hate to say it, but this game is a PVP game. I do not understand why people seem to think that us PVPers are doing something so terrible by blowing up a ship in hostile space, wither it is low sec, 0.0, or unknown. There seems to be this idea that if a ship is "PVE" fit then it has a right to be completely left alone. This is crap, you are in hostile space competing for limited resources.

Yes, you can fly a fit (or fleet comp) that is completely optimized for shooting NPCs and nothing else, with no back up, and no recon. If you do this, you are going to be vulnerable to attacks by players. Some people choose to do this, and in some situations it pays off. As long as you do not get attacked, you are making the most isk per hour you can. You will get attacked eventually though, and the question is then if the extra income you made makes up for the lose of your ship. No matter what precautions you take though you will never be completely invulnerable to attack.

The trick is in finding a balance, preparing for likely situations and being able to cover your loses when they do occur. If you can not do that, you do not belong in hostile space.


Jonathan Ferguson
JC Ferguson and Son Ltd
Ferguson Alliance
Posted - 2011.07.16 08:08:00 - [15]
 

EVE really isn't about skill (unless you do small gang/solo PVP.)

Think of it more like the Long Walk. It's a masochistic battle of attrition waged between the players and CCP.

Rodj Blake
Amarr
PIE Inc.
Posted - 2011.07.16 08:12:00 - [16]
 

Poker and tennis both require skill to play well, but different types of skill.

Eve is more like poker than tennis.


ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
Posted - 2011.07.16 08:43:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Rodj Blake
Poker and tennis both require skill to play well, but different types of skill.

Eve is more like poker than tennis.




QFT

Serene Repose
Caldari
Perkone
Posted - 2011.07.16 08:52:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Jonathan Ferguson
EVE really isn't about skill (unless you do small gang/solo PVP.)

Think of it more like the Long Walk. It's a masochistic battle of attrition waged between the players and CCP.


You should really do something about your flatulent keyboard.


Telvani
Crouching Woman Hidden Cucumber
Posted - 2011.07.16 09:14:00 - [19]
 

Edited by: Telvani on 16/07/2011 09:23:53
Originally by: Rodj Blake
Poker and tennis both require skill to play well, but different types of skill.

Eve is more like poker than tennis.




This is remarkably true, I'd just like to add and clarify

Eve is like poker in the sense you must know when to cut and run, and when to go all etc (things like the Clarion Call videos illustrate this well) there is even some bluffing involved.

I would say eve is a lot more like chess generally than poker, except both sides don't have a fixed number/type of pieces. So there is all that thinking ahead as to how a situation will unfold and being able to see past the obvious.

In both situations you must know as much as possible about your opponent, his strengths and weaknesses and likely strategys


The Offerer
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.07.16 09:34:00 - [20]
 

Hello and welcome to EVE

Since PvP has been already discussed, I'll just mention a couple of PvE options that you'lll have when you train some skills for a bit.

Level 3 missions are the first ones that require at least some thinking, especially if you just started the game. But with a proper ship and modules, they can be very easy.

Level 4 missions are different - high damage, racial electronic warfare from the NPCs (Guristas are jamming, Minmatars are Target painting, Serpentis are Sensor dampening, Blood raiders use Energy Neutralizers...) and you can easily be webbed and warp scrambled by advanced NPC frigates just to make things a bit more interesting. However, after a while you'll master level 4 missions just as you have mastered level 3 missions. If you are still up for some PvE challenge, there's more.

COSMOS missions can be much harder than level 4 missions and some of them will make you lose a ship or two if you just fly into the mission area with your best ship without scouting it first and planning a tactic. They also offer some unique rewards and a massive faction standing boost. There are also COSMOS missions in low security space, so you'll have to plan how to avoid (or defeat) local pirates (players).

Then, you have Epic Arc missions. They are quite good and the storyline is pretty interesting. It can be just a bit harder then level 4, but the mechanics and types of NPCs are the same - and that's if you are working for empire factions. Pirate NPC epic arcs can be quite fun - they are fast, require you to go to 0.0 security space and fight in small fast ships using nothing but tactics.

Factional warfare missions are located exclusively in low security space and can be divided into two groups - defensive and offensive mission complexes. A defensive complex has NPCs of your faction in it. You are not shooting them since they are helping you to shoot at any opposite side militia member. What's defensive complex for you, the same complex is offensive for your war targets (members of the other race's militia). You'll get offensive missions in opposite militia's space, and all mission sites are visible on overview to anyone who enters the system (so not only militia members, but pirates and any other player that happens to be in the system). Loyalty Point store for militia corporations are quite good and offer many items and ships that are not available anywhere else in the game (Tier 1 navy battleships, for example Typhoon Fleet Issue,...). And, you actually get Loyalty Points if you kill a player that is in opposite militia.

The next step, without leaving known space, are Incursions. Incursions in many cases require team effort and can be very challenging even with a gang on your side.

After Incursions, there is unknown or wormhole space (popular term is W-space). AI of the Incursion NPCs is borrowed from Sleeper AI (sleepers are NPCs in W-space). There's only one variation of sleepers (not like pirate factions in known space) and they can all:
- web you
- scramble your warp
- neutralize your energy
- switch their focus on your drones, or if you are in a gang they will at some point attack the weakest ship in the gang to kill it first
- remote repair between themselves to tank you better
As a bonus, you don't have an active local chat in W-space, meaning that you can't see who is in local and how many player are in the system if they all avoid typing in local chat. Only when someone type something in local chat, you can see that he's in the system. Combat probes and directional scanner are your best friends.

And yeah... you can always try out level 5 missions (lowsec exclusive).

I hope you'll find some fun in some of the sites mentioned here and stay in the game for a long time.Wink

Mail Order Bride
Posted - 2011.07.16 09:36:00 - [21]
 

Edited by: Mail Order Bride on 16/07/2011 09:36:12
I found as i got older I started to lean away from "twitch" type gameplay in preference of stat based games. I tried eve in 2003 and thought then "this is not for me - no real action" but as my taste in games has changed I thought I would try again with a free trial. I am now truly addicted with 3 accounts subbed. It is not for everyone. When I watched this I could see his point but the depth and variation keeps me involved and wanting more.

P42ALPHA
Gallente
Epidemic.
THE D0MINION
Posted - 2011.07.16 10:41:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Kin Netics
Look its like this, the toughest thing in eve is keeping your account active to train skills..........


QFT.....That or logging in at all.....X beats Y Beats Z

All u need to know about EVE.

Best way to win the game, quit.

Rrama Ratamnim
Posted - 2011.07.16 11:09:00 - [23]
 

btw OP right click orbit from too far away or even approach when in a frig pvp fight against say cruiser = dead

hence why you can double click into space to fly in different directions, thats how you really maintain transversal in eve pvp.... so you avoid incoming damage

Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
Amarr
Posted - 2011.07.16 14:10:00 - [24]
 

Well, it all depends on how much you play. If you run missions 4 hours a day, you will earn a gazillion ISK and will be done very soon, burned out or plain bored. PvE is mostly "casual" content.

IMO, one of the beauties of EVE's PvE content is that it gives a nice reward with few time. You can run missions an hour each day and be proficent at it, pay your account and have fun; a good mission will throw 20 to 30 million ISK your way, easily, in about an hour or so of fighting and looting.

Of course, some people deem "casual" gameplay unworthy, but provided the average EVE player is 31 years old, "casual" players turn to be people who got a job and life and can't play games like unemployed punks and teenage brats. Rolling Eyes

Wereas PvP demands time. Fleet operations require time. And earning money to pay for the ships you loose needs time too. Also PvP bores people to death between each 5 minutes of thrill, but, if that floats your boat, who are we to judge? Get a cheap PvP fitting, go lowsec and try to hunt someone. Lose a few ships, get podded a few times, then if you feel it's a career suit to your taste, ask for ways to do more, better PvP.

BTW, EVE is almost all about PvP, but combat PvP is a small minority of PvP. Most PvP is trade PvP and industry PvP. That could suit your tastes too, although IMO Trade PvP is the toughest career in New Eden (also the most lucrative).

Garresh
Minmatar
Opposite of Low
Posted - 2011.07.16 17:27:00 - [25]
 

I'll try a comparison to WoW.

In WoW, I played a mage. A great deal of combat was spent doing "filler" maneuvers, which were repeated over and over again until a crucial moment in a fight arrived. For example, in PvE I spent like 95% of the time sidestrafing away from an enemy and casting frostbolt. The only time I needed to adapt was when **** hit the fan and I had to polymorph something or frost nova or blizzard or any number of various CC or kiting abilities to regain control.

In PvP in WoW, there were far more crucial decisions, but the basic premise was still there. After frost nova, I'd just side strafe away and throw off ice lances til the frost effect broke. Vs warriors and the like I'd spent most of my time just moving away from them tossing off slows and instant casts. The only decisive moments in the battle were when he used charge or intercept or spell reflect or anything else that forced me to change my tactics, at which point I would blink, frost nova, hold fire, use rocket boots, or whatever else was necessary to regain control of the fight.


In Eve, all those "Filler" maneuvers and tactics are done automatically. You auto fire. You automatically move to whatever orbit or keep-at-range settings you have yourself set to. The thing is, if an enemy player is observing your tactics, and you just leave it on those settings, he'll start to adapt. An example would be if you're flying a rupture against a Thorax pilot and using keep at range 10km(I don't know why you'd be doing that instead of orbitting but bear with me). Whatever his default settings are, he's probably losing because of Autocannons superior range. Faced with this, he can adapt by increasing his default distance to 20km and burning away from you, lowering his DPS output by a lot so that he's only doing drone damage, but effectively stopping ALL incoming dps from the rupture. But then you might notice what he's doing and adapt to that. Rather than let him win, you might fly in the opposite direction, since it's only about 4-6km til you're out of warp scrambler range, and retreat. But then he sees you're going to do that, so he switches to burning towards you again, at which point you adapt by flying straight back at him before he can compensate, putting you back into autocannon range. OR you could scramble your drones and try to destroy all his. OR you could overload your afterburner/MWD and get into range.

This doesn't even take into account differing propulsion systems, how damaging the Thorax's blasters are, which ship is faster(and therefore more heavily armored), whether the rupture is speeed/shield fit or 1600mm plate fit(slow), or whether or not you were using barrage ammunition to "snipe" him or whether you were trying to get up close and say **** it with republic fleet phased plasma ammo.

All of this gets even MORE complicated with smaller faster ships, or once you have multiple ships involved in the fight.
Check out this "basic" interceptor guide: http://www.eve-tribune.com/index.php?no=2_40&page=6

Another example you might find of interest. A Vagabond is a T2 cruiser that applies the interceptor tactics to combat, because it has almost no tank to speak of, and instead uses it's maneuverability and range to get kills. Understanding tracking and range is vitally important, because it relies on speed to live. But what happens when you're going up against 2 or 3 ships? You can't just orbit at 20km, because they'll start to scatter and wait for you to **** up and scram you. At this point you might see the vagabond pilot retreat, but he CANNOT use "keep at range" settings because he has to stay moving. Speed is his life. So now the vaga pilot has to find a way to manually orbit at that range, but offset by about 10km so that his orbit doesn't intersect with the scram range of the other pilots.

Long story short: Combat is ****ing complicated. There are just no "filler" moves where you mash the 2 key 90% of the time.

Garresh
Minmatar
Opposite of Low
Posted - 2011.07.16 17:35:00 - [26]
 

One more thing. In early PvE, you can just use the same tactics over and over and over again. It's not supposed to be hard, it's supposed to help you get the basics down. In "advanced" PvE(Like sleepers) or any form of PvP, you're constantly assessing the fight and changing your orbit range, ammunition, who you're targetting, manually flying in same cases.

I remember I tried doing a complex the other day, but I warped in only to find that some dumbass had triggered all the ships in the room. My Hurricane, even with my tanking skills, could not tank everything in the room, but I really wanted to kill the faction ship and potentially get the loot. I also didn't want to go 14 jumps round trip to get a better tanked ship, because by that point someone else might have cleared it. So I manually flew in a slight zig zag pattern, away from the incoming wave of ships(which would annihilate me in close range). I kept myself outside the range of the battlecruisers, while my autocannons tore through all the frigates and cruisers. Once the enemy forces had been reduced enough, I launched myself directly into the fray, switched back to short range ammo, and made quick work of the complex. Lo and behold, it escalated, and about 2 hours later I walked away with a faction mod worth 500 million.

Morganta
Posted - 2011.07.16 17:45:00 - [27]
 

when for the first time you take that brand new battleship out and someone in a rifter hands you your ass and pods you, then you'll understand where skill comes into play.

Tosser Galore
Posted - 2011.07.16 18:19:00 - [28]
 

Ffs OP you have not even begin to sc**** the surface and yet you dare to make a post about eve space combat pew pew.

At least spend some months reading spreadsheets before you even begin talking about skill. The intricacies of space combat is not easily explained.

"If my ship starts to get weak I click on repair systems. They die. I click on the next target. Rinse, wash, repeat, warp out. There seems to be very little input required from me, and much of the time I'm playing in these battles I'm just sitting watching my screen"

Yeah you do that. And making isk is easy: just buy low and sell high lol. GG

PS. Teh roids I mine are for free...

Scrub.


 

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