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Saarik
Posted - 2011.07.14 17:39:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Saarik on 15/07/2011 00:07:29
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/extra-credits/3689-Microtransactions

Enjoy! I asked them to do this episode ^_^

edit: added url tags. Threadnaught people! Keep bumping!

Pavel Bidermann
Posted - 2011.07.14 18:20:00 - [2]
 

That was excellent. This video and other trade publications have really been looking at the recent CCP moves. Other than the "Oh wow! That's just insane!" initial shock of all the recent events it's been interesting to see the industry's actual perspective on all this. To be honest, even though CCP seems to feel they have gotten a handle on their player base, the rest of the industry sees the potential of a self destruct. Not that it isn't salvagable, but (to be honest) CCP doesn't seem to have any kind of skill when it comes to management so it's very unlikely that they will recover. It's hard to fail when there are so many tools and services available to help with success. CCP seems to be willing to fearlessly go over the cliff by refusing to address actual problems or even honestly look at their current situation. It's kind of a rehab scenario. You can't help someone who is unwilling to be helped or even try for themselves. CCP really wants to stand out in the gaming industry. It seems they are doing this, but only to serve as a warning to others.

Jonathan Ferguson
JC Ferguson and Son Ltd
Ferguson Alliance
Posted - 2011.07.14 18:30:00 - [3]
 

Very good video. Very well done.

Only quibbles I have are:

Sell convenience in a F2P game, NOT in a premium subscription game like EVE.

Sell 'leveling speed' (skillpoints) in games where you can grind from level 1 to level cap in days or weeks, NOT in a game where it takes a year (roughly) to get all the skills you need to level 4 and years to get them maxed.

Otherwise, fantastic (and very entertaining to watch.)

J Kunjeh
Gallente
Posted - 2011.07.14 18:32:00 - [4]
 

Edited by: J Kunjeh on 14/07/2011 18:33:06
Good stuff, it definitely adds something to the discussion. I agree with about 90% of the ideas within, but the other 10% don't apply to Eve very well (i.e. paying for leveling/skilling...could be a bad idea in Eve because skilling adds power and as he said "never sell power").

Although I vehemently came out against the NeX prices initially, I feel a bit different about it now. I am all for buying vanity stuff for, well, vanity purposes (i.e. $10k Gold Scorpions), as long as there's a medium and low end as well. Eventually, NeX will have different tiers (sooner rather than later please CCP).

Luke S
Zeta Corp.
Posted - 2011.07.14 18:41:00 - [5]
 

Uh good. someone posted this already.

I hope CCP are watching this and taking notes.

Ranka Mei
Caldari
Posted - 2011.07.14 18:57:00 - [6]
 

Excellent vid!

Pavel Bidermann
Posted - 2011.07.14 19:10:00 - [7]
 

I've never had a problem with vanity items like that. I used to love the useless items in Guild Wars. That said, I don't support non-vanity sales. This game isn't set up for it and should never be set up for it. their pricing is stupid at best. The items should be cheap and destructble.

All that aside, the bigger issue now is that the game is becoming unplayable with all the coding problems, hardware loads, and server crashes. Mix that with terrible updates, lack of content adjustment, lack of management support for the product as a whole and a skeleton crew trying to keep the core game running and you have a potential end game.

Mr LaForge
Posted - 2011.07.14 19:20:00 - [8]
 

Sound advice is sound advice.

Wilhelm Riley
Posted - 2011.07.14 19:25:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Luke S


I hope CCP are watching this and taking notes.


They probably aren't, they're very busy people. Though I hope Manifest or one of the Community guys happens to glance in this direction.

Rixiu
The Inuits
Posted - 2011.07.14 19:38:00 - [10]
 

I watched it earlier and I really smiled when CCP got trolled. They had really had it coming.

There's some really good points though, but some of what's said doesn't apply to eve since it's Pay to Play (eg. convinience, faster skilling and such).

AllYourBaseAre BelongToUs
Posted - 2011.07.14 20:01:00 - [11]
 

This thread should never leave the the front page for 18 months.

Saarik
Posted - 2011.07.14 20:10:00 - [12]
 

Edited by: Saarik on 14/07/2011 20:10:31
Do I smell threadnuahgt?

We should sticky the thread.

RougeOperator
Posted - 2011.07.14 20:47:00 - [13]
 

CCP listen to outside advice.....

I wont hold my breath.

Mubane Melkan
Posted - 2011.07.14 21:06:00 - [14]
 

Hah! Just wanted to paste this on the forums.
Excellent vid. I love the Extra Credits videos because they are really professional and actually not much can be ciriticised in them. They make really good points.
Keep this on the front page at least!

boseo
Gallente
Azure Horizon
Posted - 2011.07.14 21:15:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Mubane Melkan
Hah! Just wanted to paste this on the forums.
Excellent vid. I love the Extra Credits videos because they are really professional and actually not much can be ciriticised in them. They make really good points.
Keep this on the front page at least!


first time I saw an extra credits video, it was the episode on the uncanny valley, and it was shown during a university lecture. It was then I realised how good they were.

Zagdul
Gallente
Clan Shadow Wolf
Fatal Ascension
Posted - 2011.07.14 21:20:00 - [16]
 

Saarik

Turn it into a link!

This is an amazing video.

Zag'mar Jurkar
Minmatar
Advent of the Blood Sun
Posted - 2011.07.14 21:22:00 - [17]
 

Nice to see an unbiased opinion about the matter, and it was really well done.

Brujo Loco
Amarr
Brujeria Teologica
Posted - 2011.07.14 21:26:00 - [18]
 

Sticky this nOW!

Iesahk
Posted - 2011.07.14 21:33:00 - [19]
 

If people are willing to pay $60-70 for vanity non game effecting items, then a company would be less than smart "NOT" to offer same.

Its not an item that is needed in the game its called a "VANITY" item. Its like asking why charge what they do for a Bentley, its because some people can afford and want a Bentley vs a Dodge.

CCP is responding to what people "do" vs what they say they will or won't do. The psych studies and market movement of monocles and other vanity items since release seems to back them up.

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2011.07.14 21:38:00 - [20]
 

Edited by: Akita T on 14/07/2011 21:39:30

Yes, CCP sort of screwed the pooch with the pricing.
But they funny enough DIDN'T screw it by adding the monocle.

They did it by NOT adding a myriad of low-cost items (and I mean, single digit AUR prices) alongside the "in your face" monocle-like offers.
They also screwed it up by the last-minute change of making items worn indestructible.
Those two things "just might" (hint) be related.
I believe it was a mistake, but then again, that's just my personal opinion, therefore not carrying much (if any) weight.

The angle that the vid didn't seem to get (and they can be excused for not getting it, since it's not directly obvious) is that the NEX is not really "only" a MT-shop, but is far more directed towards vacuuming "free-floating" PLEX from the existing stockpiles.
The monocle might cost 60$ if you pay for it with cash, but it "only" costs 1.3 bil ISK, which outside of RMT (which is a bannable offense) can't be transformed back into cash, so for ISK-rich and EULA-abiding players, its RL cash value is minimal.

Wumpscut 4lyfe
Posted - 2011.07.14 21:50:00 - [21]
 

A lot of this made sense, a some crucial parts were total bull****. I can see the narrator's simplified points eye-to-eye right up until the point where he said "and allowing people to skill up faster just makes them run through game content faster and yay everyone's happy!" And this is after he made the recurring point about "never sell power". This guy had good things to say but by the end of the rant the only lasting impression that I got was that the guy was Blue-Skying and that EVE is still ****ed up.

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2011.07.14 21:55:00 - [22]
 

Well, that's debatable. Also, the vid maker probably hasn't had too much actual EVE experience.
You can already "buy (that sort of) power" in EVE (cash->PLEX->ISK->CharBazaar->high-SP char), although it's not exactly custom-tailored to your liking.
And even if you could buy (more) power in EVE, the fact you can always just use ISK instead of RL-cash (and the fact you can make oodles of ISK by *NOT* grinding but using your noggin' instead) heavily diminishes the severity of any "buy power" offers.

Gerald Sphinx
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2011.07.14 21:59:00 - [23]
 

I'll be ok with MT in Eve as long as CCP decides to "Never... Sell... Power".

dexington
Caldari
Baconoration
Posted - 2011.07.14 22:02:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Akita T
They did it by NOT adding a myriad of low-cost items (and I mean, single digit AUR prices) alongside the "in your face" monocle-like offers.
They also screwed it up by the last-minute change of making items worn indestructible.
Those two things "just might" (hint) be related.
I believe it was a mistake, but then again, that's just my personal opinion, therefore not carrying much (if any) weight.


Personally i think it's okay that items that don't affect game play can't be destroyed when not in the cargo space of a ship, but if the items becomes more popular and more traded on the isk market maybe CCP should tweak the rule a little so it's not a loophole for transporting them risk free.

I do fully agree with the with lack of low-price items was a huge mistake, it made the NEX market useless for the majority of players. I think it left a lot of player with the feeling, that the vanity items was a feature they would never be able to afford.

Gerald Sphinx
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2011.07.14 22:06:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Akita T
Well, that's debatable. Also, the vid maker probably hasn't had too much actual EVE experience.
You can already "buy (that sort of) power" in EVE (cash->PLEX->ISK->CharBazaar->high-SP char), although it's not exactly custom-tailored to your liking.


The other issue with the Character Bazaar is not just the fact that the character your are buying is not 100% to one's liking, there is also the issue of the character's reputation. I have encountered players who pointed out that they bought their characters after converting Plex to ISK only to find out that the characters they bought had very bad blood with some people in the past and consequently resulted in those players getting ganked or decked by complete strangers they had never encountered before simply because the characters they were playing were either corp thieves, blue-on-blue team killers or a spies in the past.

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2011.07.14 23:08:00 - [26]
 

Edited by: Tippia on 14/07/2011 23:12:11
Originally by: Wumpscut 4lyfe
I can see the narrator's simplified points eye-to-eye right up until the point where he said "and allowing people to skill up faster just makes them run through game content faster and yay everyone's happy!" And this is after he made the recurring point about "never sell power".
The thing is that you are looking those two from the EVE perspective, where "running through game content" doesn't exist because the game doesn't offer the whole levels/zones/end-game kind of structure that your standard theme park MMO is built around.

Buying your way ahead in the content progression is impossible in EVE, because there are no limitations in that area to begin with.

Instead, it would instantly be translated into "buy SP", which for some equates to "buying power". I don't particularly agree with that view, personally — I rather see it as "buying your way out of choice and consequences", which in my view goes counter to one of the basic philosophies of the game. The character bazaar does not break this too badly, since, while you're buying a pile of SP, those SP come in the form of a long line of choices and consequences — that key point is not being evaded.


…oh and as for the video. Thumbs up all the way. Colour me utterly unsurprised when they dope-slapped CCP for not testing, communicating, and collecting feedback on their latest belly-flop.

Blane Xero
Amarr
The Firestorm Cartel
Posted - 2011.07.14 23:27:00 - [27]
 

Horribly optimistic. Which developer is going to spend time developing free content over pay for content.

Very few is the answer.

dexington
Caldari
Baconoration
Posted - 2011.07.14 23:32:00 - [28]
 

Edited by: dexington on 14/07/2011 23:37:35
Originally by: Tippia
Buying your way ahead in the content progression is impossible in EVE, because there are no limitations in that area to begin with.

Instead, it would instantly be translated into "buy SP", which for some equates to "buying power". I don't particularly agree with that view, personally — I rather see it as "buying your way out of choice and consequences", which in my view goes counter to one of the basic philosophies of the game. The character bazaar does not break this too badly, since, while you're buying a pile of SP, those SP come in the form of a long line of choices and consequences — that key point is not being evaded.


If it was possible to buy SP you would only be able to buy your way out of choices and consequences, if it was possible to buy unlimited amounts of SP and apply them directly to your character. If the prices is high or there is some reasonable limits to the amounts players can buy players would still faced with the choices and consequences when they apply the SP. Buying SP could also be applied in the form of faster training time, which also would leave the players with the same choices as they have to make now.

Personally i'm against the selling/buying of skill points, not because i think it's impossible to implement in a reasonable way, but because i believe to some extend it would be something players who take the game serious would the forced to buy.

Creed Richards
Minmatar
Xoth Inc
Omega Vector
Posted - 2011.07.14 23:35:00 - [29]
 

It was a good video, I enjoy that series greatly.

Personally, I think the closest EVE would get to "paying for levels" would be using aurum to pay for faction standing. IIRC that idea has been floated around.

I admit I would be tempted by that, and I think that it wouldn't be paying for power. Though granted, faction standing opens a lot of doors but even then the most of those doors are isk generation, which is not unlike what PLEX offers right now.

Cailais
Amarr
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
Talocan United
Posted - 2011.07.14 23:40:00 - [30]
 

Good vid. To bad CCP will 'Fearlessly' plough on over the cliff.

C.



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