open All Channels
seplocked EVE General Discussion
blankseplocked Why PLEX is not pay to win.
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Pages: 1 [2] 3

Author Topic

Bossanova Widya
Posted - 2011.07.14 11:02:00 - [31]
 

Awoxing will see a boom I foresee, just for the lulz of killing a $500 ship and scrapping the barrel for pain and butthurt rage whinning from previously somebody who didn't stand out from the crowd...

lets do it I say!!.. lets kill them!!

Erim Solfara
Amarr
inFluX.
Posted - 2011.07.14 11:06:00 - [32]
 

Edited by: Erim Solfara on 14/07/2011 11:33:28
Quote:
"If CCP wants a 'PLEX sink' I've got the greatest 'PLEX sink' of all for them:

Larger subscription base.

How do you get that? Simple.

Make your game suck less. Make your devs lie less. Start respecting the customers you have."


Hear, hear.


Nice post from the OP, lays it out in a fairly easy to understand format (which some people, maverick for instance, still can't comprehend).

One thing to point out though, is that the way you described how clothing should work is based on the assumption that ISK is the base currency. While I'm all for the abolition of any non-plex real money transactions, this is unfortunately not the case for CCP, and the way it's been tiered purely reflects real-world money-grabbing.

I just hope the store isn't successful enough to warrant further development, apparently none of the other features from the last few years have been, so here's hoping...

Miss Rabblt
Posted - 2011.07.14 12:10:00 - [33]
 

TLDR.

However "pay to win" != "get something from thin air".
"Pay to win" == "come, spend some money, get some benefits, win".

And this is what most forum warrions don't understand.

PLEX is p2w. Doesn't matter where stuff you buy born from. It can only matter when you have empty universe. Then yes: you either need to build something or buy it "from thin air". However in Eve you can buy A LOT of stuff already made by someone. And you either need to spend some effort to get it or you just bring money to the table and buy it. This is p2w.

Wreckar
Posted - 2011.07.14 12:53:00 - [34]
 

Plex is a form of P2W. That's all there is to it. It's a method of obtaining in-game currency using real world funds. Arguing otherwise is futile.

I can buy a 50mil sp char using plex. I can buy faction battleships using plex. I can fit that ship with the best mods using plex. I can buy protection from an alliance using plex. I can hire mercs to fight my battles using plex.

Can you imagine the uproar in WoW if Blizzard provided a means to aquire gold in a similar fashion?

Whether it's buying isk from rmt'ers or buying a plex and converting to isk it achieves the same purpose.

Cipher Jones
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.07.14 13:55:00 - [35]
 

Originally by: Discrodia
I think whatever I just saw was even worse than a wall of text.

Also, tl;dr most of it, got the impression that OP was trying to make some point about PLEX being MT, to which I will say FOR CHRISTS SAKE THE SEARCH FUNCTION IS YOUR FRIEND!


The OP makes a great point in the wall of text. There's a difference between too long don't read and too lazy didn't read.

Kazini Jax
Gallente
Starlight Operations
Starlight Network
Posted - 2011.07.14 14:53:00 - [36]
 

Whatever! You people keep telling yourself that it isn't a form of P2W. It doesn't matter. IT IS! Logically, it is, and you can make all the arguments and justifications you want. PLEX IS P2W. It gives an advantage from outside the game. Period. You use noobs as your justification but it's not always noobs that use PLEX to gain an advantage. It can be a small corp CEO using it to buy a station and put it in a lonely area of nullsec that is never gonna get attacked.. advantage. Period. When you can buy Eve resources and use them in the game, it is an advantage. It doesn't matter your skill level at playing the game cause not everyone that does it is going to be a noob and they will get an advantage out of it. Granted, it is a P2W-Lite, but it IS P2W. Don't fool yourself otherwise.

The question is, to each player, is it an acceptable form of P2W to YOU.

Maverick2011
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2011.07.14 15:03:00 - [37]
 

Originally by: Jonathan Ferguson
Originally by: Zagdul
Plex has a problem right now, the super rich in EVE horde it and play market games with it. This way they can control prices on items they wish to sell. PLEX runs the market right now and there needs to be a PLEX sink.

In comes AUR.


It's not hard really. Lot less words too.




I can see why you're in the alliance that petitions wardecs. First, nothing is stopping people from playing 'market games' with PLEX now. Second, Aurum drives PLEX prices UP, because it gives something else to spend PLEX on. You're either trolling or ignorant, not sure which (or probably both.)

If CCP wants a 'PLEX sink' I've got the greatest 'PLEX sink' of all for them:

Larger subscription base.

How do you get that? Simple.

Make your game suck less. Make your devs lie less. Start respecting the customers you have.



I think that part i put in bold is what CCP should really care about too. Isn't it so simple to understand? A better game makes players happier and brings new ones to check it out. Vanity and fluff doesn't attract new players, neither it brings long term satisfaction to existing ones.

Cipher Jones
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.07.14 15:09:00 - [38]
 

Originally by: Kazini Jax
Whatever! You people keep telling yourself that it isn't a form of P2W. It doesn't matter. IT IS! Logically, it is, and you can make all the arguments and justifications you want. PLEX IS P2W. It gives an advantage from outside the game. Period. You use noobs as your justification but it's not always noobs that use PLEX to gain an advantage. It can be a small corp CEO using it to buy a station and put it in a lonely area of nullsec that is never gonna get attacked.. advantage. Period. When you can buy Eve resources and use them in the game, it is an advantage. It doesn't matter your skill level at playing the game cause not everyone that does it is going to be a noob and they will get an advantage out of it. Granted, it is a P2W-Lite, but it IS P2W. Don't fool yourself otherwise.

The question is, to each player, is it an acceptable form of P2W to YOU.


"Buying Gold" is not p2w. You cant buy the skills to anchor the POS. You cant buy the skills to defend the POS. You cant buy the skills to to fly the ships needed to defend the POS. Yes you can buy the characters to do so, but they come from a limited pool. The character bazaar is the only p2w in EvE.



Phil MacMannon
Fantastic Gymnastics
Posted - 2011.07.14 15:40:00 - [39]
 

Edited by: Phil MacMannon on 14/07/2011 19:45:40
Thanks for all your comments so far.

I think what it comes down to is perspective.

I do not believe that it is actually possible to "Pay to Win" the game, even in the worst possible context that we are seeing today.

What we are really talking about is "Paying for an Advantage" and if that advantage is a fair one or not.

If your definition of "P2W" consists of paying some money, in whatever form, beyond what you pay for your subscription, and in doing so gain an advantage of ANY kind, then that is "P2W" and must not be allowed under any circumstances.

However, since PLEX has been in the game for years, and before this current crisis the community seemed to have coped just fine with it, then their must be a difference to what we are seeing now.

My definition of what is referred to by people as "P2W" is a similar definition of what that "P2W" definition meant, at the time, to the majority of people who shot the monument in Jita.

It is the idea that you make something, out of nothing, removing player *EFFORT* from the process. The idea that you can simply dock up, press a button and you are magically transported upto +7 caldari state.

Now again, i realize that appears to be a contradiction. However, if the advantage you could gain through PLEX was truely considered to be the same advantage as obtaining the same effect using an automatic out of the blue in-game mechanic then WHY have people not been up in arms about this very thing before?

Because if it is the same thing, then surely the effect we are seeing now should have happened then. All i know is that up until the incarna patch, i was IMMERSED in the world of EVE. Now i am not.

Something has changed that has allowed my defintion of "Pay for a fair advantage" to regress into "Pay for an unfair advantage".

It is not that i suddenly think that you can now "Pay to Win", because i do not believe that it is possible to do that, it's just that i now think that the advantage that can now be gained is no longer FAIR.

The reason people tolerate PLEX is because they consider it to be a "Fair Advantage", in that the transferring of the *EFFORT* is an acceptable compromise in comparasion to the alternative system of conjuring stuff up out of *thin air*.

And again, yes, in the case of the recipient, it equates to the same thing. But to the rest of *most* of us, it IS different. Yes, It is NOT ideal, however what it is is an acceptable compromise that does not BETRAY THE PRINCIPLES of what the game is founded on.

The core of those principles are based on the idea that there has to some kind of PLAYER *EFFORT*, in everything that we do. The PLEX system allows you to transfer that *EFFORT* to someone else. In doing so, for the majority of people, that is sufficient enough in order for them to maintain their IMMERSION.

Elder Man
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2011.07.14 15:43:00 - [40]
 


Plex just doesn't appear out of thin air on the market. I don't care what you say. It's Pay 2 win if you wish. Has been for years. CCP just made it easier with plex is all. Someone paid for my game time this month, and will again next month. They pay to win, and I play to not pay. That's why CCP is making it harder to make isk.



J Kunjeh
Gallente
Posted - 2011.07.14 15:49:00 - [41]
 

Phil MacMannon, your last post was excellent. I find myself mostly in agreement. CCP needs to find a way to make the NeX market as much a player run market as is the ISK/PLEX market.

Mitra Warpsmith
Posted - 2011.07.14 16:00:00 - [42]
 

Edited by: Mitra Warpsmith on 14/07/2011 16:00:00
Originally by: Akita T

OP TL;DR : people do not actually oppose the introduction of MT/P2W (especially since we had some variation of it already, namely GTC/PLEX), they only really oppose "bypassing the player economy" in the form of stuff showing up - or better said, they can easily convince themselves it's all fine as long as it's not rubbed in their faces.

As I mention in here (with example), you DON'T necessarily have to have NEX items spawn out of nowhere and bypass and/or screw up the economy, quite the opposite.
You can even integrate a whole new "tech level" of absolutely everything if you want with key items needed (various components, BPCs) obtainable from the NEX, as long as it's not noticeably overpowered and is also priced in such a way as to NOT displace existing products from the marketplace.
Also, making them manufacturable only in non-CONCORD-protected areas, but with the key NEX components obtainable elsewhere (so there HAS to be some exposure to risk of destruction involved) would go a long way towards easing or even mostly dissipating any apprehension with regards to "AUR-derived items".



You mean it just shows up like an LP ship?

The grasping at threads is getting comical. When are all the complainers just going to admit:
A) They cannot aford a monocle and are ****ed
B) They play for free and are ****ed the ISK cost when up

Tarinara
Posted - 2011.07.14 16:49:00 - [43]
 

OP: I can see you went to a lot of *EFFORT* to ensure to stress your point of the *EFFORT* involved. Frankly it turned into quite an *EFFORT* on my part to read everything and quite frankly - it broke the immersion of the post...

Originally by: Phil MacMannon
People are not going to be able to immerse themselves into a virtual world if the virtual world is constanly reminding them that what they are trying to immerse themselves into IS NOT REAL.

The balance of law has to be restored. Without doing this we may never be able to immerse ourselves in that world again. Many people, who are unable to restore their previous immersion begin to leave, to find another more believable virutal world to take it's place.

You did actually read this over before you posted it, didn't you? I got quite a laugh out of the whole make believe, virtual world not being 'real enough'. Think about it...

As for the over priced vanity items being indestructable: they're just that -> VANITY ITEMS! They don't effect game play. Does it make your Interwebz Spaceship ePee-Pee bigger if you destroy some tools $80 monocle? OK wait ... *snicker* I guess I actually answered my own question on that one. Moving along...

As for CCP's billionaires only NeX shop prices: maybe the concierge should send a mystery shopper over to NCSoft's MT shop. It appears they have a more realistic concept of 'micro transactions': Winds of Change Costume Pack. A package deal even. Not to mention Guild Wars players don't have to pay a monthly subscription fee.

Cipher Jones
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.07.14 17:00:00 - [44]
 

Originally by: Mitra Warpsmith
Edited by: Mitra Warpsmith on 14/07/2011 16:00:00
Originally by: Akita T

OP TL;DR : people do not actually oppose the introduction of MT/P2W (especially since we had some variation of it already, namely GTC/PLEX), they only really oppose "bypassing the player economy" in the form of stuff showing up - or better said, they can easily convince themselves it's all fine as long as it's not rubbed in their faces.

As I mention in here (with example), you DON'T necessarily have to have NEX items spawn out of nowhere and bypass and/or screw up the economy, quite the opposite.
You can even integrate a whole new "tech level" of absolutely everything if you want with key items needed (various components, BPCs) obtainable from the NEX, as long as it's not noticeably overpowered and is also priced in such a way as to NOT displace existing products from the marketplace.
Also, making them manufacturable only in non-CONCORD-protected areas, but with the key NEX components obtainable elsewhere (so there HAS to be some exposure to risk of destruction involved) would go a long way towards easing or even mostly dissipating any apprehension with regards to "AUR-derived items".



You mean it just shows up like an LP ship?

The grasping at threads is getting comical. When are all the complainers just going to admit:
A) They cannot aford a monocle and are ****ed
B) They play for free and are ****ed the ISK cost when up



You get LP for free? amazing.

NickyYo
Posted - 2011.07.14 17:16:00 - [45]
 

HAHA moron.
White noise bought all their cap fleet via plexes and now look at the north!

Phil MacMannon
Fantastic Gymnastics
Posted - 2011.07.14 17:18:00 - [46]
 

Originally by: Tarinara
OP: I can see you went to a lot of *EFFORT* to ensure to stress your point of the *EFFORT* involved. Frankly it turned into quite an *EFFORT* on my part to read everything and quite frankly - it broke the immersion of the post...

Originally by: Phil MacMannon
People are not going to be able to immerse themselves into a virtual world if the virtual world is constanly reminding them that what they are trying to immerse themselves into IS NOT REAL.

The balance of law has to be restored. Without doing this we may never be able to immerse ourselves in that world again. Many people, who are unable to restore their previous immersion begin to leave, to find another more believable virutal world to take it's place.

You did actually read this over before you posted it, didn't you? I got quite a laugh out of the whole make believe, virtual world not being 'real enough'. Think about it...

As for the over priced vanity items being indestructable: they're just that -> VANITY ITEMS! They don't effect game play. Does it make your Interwebz Spaceship ePee-Pee bigger if you destroy some tools $80 monocle? OK wait ... *snicker* I guess I actually answered my own question on that one. Moving along...

As for CCP's billionaires only NeX shop prices: maybe the concierge should send a mystery shopper over to NCSoft's MT shop. It appears they have a more realistic concept of 'micro transactions': Winds of Change Costume Pack. A package deal even. Not to mention Guild Wars players don't have to pay a monthly subscription fee.


Your belief in what is real and what is not is entirely down to the level of immersion you are able to acheive in whatever it is that you are doing.

For the more casual player, their immersion level, for whatever reason that may be, is not as deep as the level of immersion of a more serious player.

That means that their experience of the game, for them, is not as REAL as the more serious player's experience of the game.

That does not mean that the more serious players are BETTER, it simply means that for whatever reason, they are able to get more out of the experience because their immersion level is deeper.

Kazini Jax
Gallente
Starlight Operations
Starlight Network
Posted - 2011.07.14 17:52:00 - [47]
 

Originally by: Cipher Jones
Originally by: Kazini Jax
Whatever! You people keep telling yourself that it isn't a form of P2W. It doesn't matter. IT IS! Logically, it is, and you can make all the arguments and justifications you want. PLEX IS P2W. It gives an advantage from outside the game. Period. You use noobs as your justification but it's not always noobs that use PLEX to gain an advantage. It can be a small corp CEO using it to buy a station and put it in a lonely area of nullsec that is never gonna get attacked.. advantage. Period. When you can buy Eve resources and use them in the game, it is an advantage. It doesn't matter your skill level at playing the game cause not everyone that does it is going to be a noob and they will get an advantage out of it. Granted, it is a P2W-Lite, but it IS P2W. Don't fool yourself otherwise.

The question is, to each player, is it an acceptable form of P2W to YOU.


"Buying Gold" is not p2w. You cant buy the skills to anchor the POS. You cant buy the skills to defend the POS. You cant buy the skills to to fly the ships needed to defend the POS. Yes you can buy the characters to do so, but they come from a limited pool. The character bazaar is the only p2w in EvE.





Buying the skills/characters is only one way to gain an advantage. Buying resources is another and all people that are buying resources through GTC -> PLEX -> resource are not unskilled players. If you can buy a resource, like a POS, you bought that resource without having to earn it like everyone else, giving yourself an advantage through real money, which is not direct P2W but does improve your ability to 'win' outside of the mechanics of playing the game.

Cipher Jones
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.07.14 19:19:00 - [48]
 

Originally by: Kazini Jax
Originally by: Cipher Jones
Originally by: Kazini Jax
Whatever! You people keep telling yourself that it isn't a form of P2W. It doesn't matter. IT IS! Logically, it is, and you can make all the arguments and justifications you want. PLEX IS P2W. It gives an advantage from outside the game. Period. You use noobs as your justification but it's not always noobs that use PLEX to gain an advantage. It can be a small corp CEO using it to buy a station and put it in a lonely area of nullsec that is never gonna get attacked.. advantage. Period. When you can buy Eve resources and use them in the game, it is an advantage. It doesn't matter your skill level at playing the game cause not everyone that does it is going to be a noob and they will get an advantage out of it. Granted, it is a P2W-Lite, but it IS P2W. Don't fool yourself otherwise.

The question is, to each player, is it an acceptable form of P2W to YOU.


"Buying Gold" is not p2w. You cant buy the skills to anchor the POS. You cant buy the skills to defend the POS. You cant buy the skills to to fly the ships needed to defend the POS. Yes you can buy the characters to do so, but they come from a limited pool. The character bazaar is the only p2w in EvE.





Buying the skills/characters is only one way to gain an advantage. Buying resources is another and all people that are buying resources through GTC -> PLEX -> resource are not unskilled players. If you can buy a resource, like a POS, you bought that resource without having to earn it like everyone else, giving yourself an advantage through real money, which is not direct P2W but does improve your ability to 'win' outside of the mechanics of playing the game.



Do this.

Make a new character. Go buy $500 worth of ISK. Come to my WH and set up a POS and try to take me out yourself. When we WTFPWN you out of Wspace come back to this thread and tell everyone how it went for you.

You might actually have a chance at it if you use the character bazaar.

Kazini Jax
Gallente
Starlight Operations
Starlight Network
Posted - 2011.07.14 19:45:00 - [49]
 

Edited by: Kazini Jax on 14/07/2011 19:55:17
Edited by: Kazini Jax on 14/07/2011 19:54:14
Originally by: Cipher Jones
Originally by: Kazini Jax
Originally by: Cipher Jones
Originally by: Kazini Jax
Whatever! You people keep telling yourself that it isn't a form of P2W. It doesn't matter. IT IS! Logically, it is, and you can make all the arguments and justifications you want. PLEX IS P2W. It gives an advantage from outside the game. Period. You use noobs as your justification but it's not always noobs that use PLEX to gain an advantage. It can be a small corp CEO using it to buy a station and put it in a lonely area of nullsec that is never gonna get attacked.. advantage. Period. When you can buy Eve resources and use them in the game, it is an advantage. It doesn't matter your skill level at playing the game cause not everyone that does it is going to be a noob and they will get an advantage out of it. Granted, it is a P2W-Lite, but it IS P2W. Don't fool yourself otherwise.

The question is, to each player, is it an acceptable form of P2W to YOU.


"Buying Gold" is not p2w. You cant buy the skills to anchor the POS. You cant buy the skills to defend the POS. You cant buy the skills to to fly the ships needed to defend the POS. Yes you can buy the characters to do so, but they come from a limited pool. The character bazaar is the only p2w in EvE.





Buying the skills/characters is only one way to gain an advantage. Buying resources is another and all people that are buying resources through GTC -> PLEX -> resource are not unskilled players. If you can buy a resource, like a POS, you bought that resource without having to earn it like everyone else, giving yourself an advantage through real money, which is not direct P2W but does improve your ability to 'win' outside of the mechanics of playing the game.



Do this.

Make a new character. Go buy $500 worth of ISK. Come to my WH and set up a POS and try to take me out yourself. When we WTFPWN you out of Wspace come back to this thread and tell everyone how it went for you.

You might actually have a chance at it if you use the character bazaar.



How about this. I go buy $500 worth of ISK, rent a merc corp to take you out and take your little wormhole and then I will come back and let everyone know how that went. Seriously? That's the best you got?

Cipher Jones
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.07.14 20:38:00 - [50]
 

ROFL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
How many mercs can you buy for 500 dollars, and how many can you fit through the static? I can hire as many as I can fit through the static without spending a penny of real life money.

I would get the biggest e-boner of flattery +5 ever if someone did that.

Ildryn
Posted - 2011.07.14 21:11:00 - [51]
 

Originally by: Cipher Jones


"Buying Gold" is not p2w. You cant buy the skills to anchor the POS. You cant buy the skills to defend the POS. You cant buy the skills to to fly the ships needed to defend the POS. Yes you can buy the characters to do so, but they come from a limited pool. The character bazaar is the only p2w in EvE.





I bought the skills for every single thing my character can do since 2006/

If you can't buy them....i guess somehow there is an exploit that allows me to see skill books on the market.

Cipher Jones
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.07.14 21:17:00 - [52]
 

Originally by: Ildryn
Originally by: Cipher Jones


"Buying Gold" is not p2w. You cant buy the skills to anchor the POS. You cant buy the skills to defend the POS. You cant buy the skills to to fly the ships needed to defend the POS. Yes you can buy the characters to do so, but they come from a limited pool. The character bazaar is the only p2w in EvE.





I bought the skills for every single thing my character can do since 2006/

If you can't buy them....i guess somehow there is an exploit that allows me to see skill books on the market.


You are absolutely incorrect. You can buy the book but you can't buy the skill.

Zagdul
Gallente
Clan Shadow Wolf
Fatal Ascension
Posted - 2011.07.14 21:38:00 - [53]
 

Originally by: Oyuki Sada
Edited by: Oyuki Sada on 14/07/2011 06:15:24
Originally by: Zagdul
Edited by: Zagdul on 14/07/2011 03:53:40
Plex has a problem right now, the super rich in EVE horde it and play market games with it. This way they can control prices on items they wish to sell. PLEX runs the market right now and there needs to be a PLEX sink.

In comes AUR.

It's not hard really. Lot less words too.


Solving one market distortion with another (completely artifical) market distortion is unlikely to end well.

Perhaps I'm being cynical, but it seems every 'solution' CCP comes up with to solve issues in the game involves them making more money, and every 'solution' sends the EVE economy further down the rabbit hole.

Edit: If PLEX hoarding barons are really the problem, then why not simply make PLEX trades a one time deal? i.e. once bought off the market, they are no-longer a tradable item and must be activated.


In a market like EVE's the player feels as though they have control over it. And for the most part they do. However, with PLEX CCP has added an item that they create out of thin air by use of RL monies.

The issue here is that this item is also used to pay to win and has inflated the market.

There are basically 2 ways to fix this.

1. Create more isk faucets.
2. Create a PLEX sink.

CCP chose the later.

Yoko Fumimasa
Caldari
Posted - 2011.07.14 21:40:00 - [54]
 

Originally by: Cipher Jones
Originally by: Ildryn
Originally by: Cipher Jones


"Buying Gold" is not p2w. You cant buy the skills to anchor the POS. You cant buy the skills to defend the POS. You cant buy the skills to to fly the ships needed to defend the POS. Yes you can buy the characters to do so, but they come from a limited pool. The character bazaar is the only p2w in EvE.





I bought the skills for every single thing my character can do since 2006/

If you can't buy them....i guess somehow there is an exploit that allows me to see skill books on the market.


You are absolutely incorrect. You can buy the book but you can't buy the skill.


I have the skillz to buy the book, does that count?

Zagdul
Gallente
Clan Shadow Wolf
Fatal Ascension
Posted - 2011.07.14 21:44:00 - [55]
 

Originally by: Cipher Jones


You are absolutely incorrect. You can buy the book but you can't buy the skill.
No, you are absolutely incorrect, I can buy the skills at the Character Bazaar.

Again, this has nothing to do with where the skills came from.

The PURCHASER can buy PLEX, turn that PLEX into skill points. He does not care where it originated. For the purchaser, it's pay to win. We've accepted it for a long time and it's been disguised well.




Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2011.07.14 21:47:00 - [56]
 

Edited by: Akita T on 14/07/2011 21:49:11
Originally by: Mitra Warpsmith
Originally by: Akita T
OP TL;DR : people do not actually oppose the introduction of MT/P2W (especially since we had some variation of it already, namely GTC/PLEX), they only really oppose "bypassing the player economy" in the form of stuff showing up - or better said, they can easily convince themselves it's all fine as long as it's not rubbed in their faces.

As I mention in here (with example), you DON'T necessarily have to have NEX items spawn out of nowhere and bypass and/or screw up the economy, quite the opposite.
You can even integrate a whole new "tech level" of absolutely everything if you want with key items needed (various components, BPCs) obtainable from the NEX, as long as it's not noticeably overpowered and is also priced in such a way as to NOT displace existing products from the marketplace.
Also, making them manufacturable only in non-CONCORD-protected areas, but with the key NEX components obtainable elsewhere (so there HAS to be some exposure to risk of destruction involved) would go a long way towards easing or even mostly dissipating any apprehension with regards to "AUR-derived items".

You mean it just shows up like an LP ship?

It is my perception that a lot of the angry people are actually stuck to the already discredited idea that you could actually buy a "vanity ship" by only using AUR and nothing else (unlike the LP-shop ships, for which you need to either trade in a base ship OR build it from a BPC).
They (the particular group of angry people I just referenced) seemed to have missed the part where it was only considered to introduce a single ship (Ishukone Scorpion) in a limited fashion like that until the NEX could be expanded/improved to actually function in a fashion similar to a LP-shop (i.e. be able to dispense BPCs and/or consume something else other than just AUR in the process).

Other than that, there actually is one additional (minor, but relevant) distinction between the NEX and a LP-shop : the former is available in any station, whereas the latter is only available in a handful of stations.
Or, better said, any particular LP-shop offer is only available in a handful of stations (belonging to a particular NPC corp), while all NEX offers are available in any and all stations.

Quote:
The grasping at threads is getting comical. When are all the complainers just going to admit:
A) They can not afford a monocle and are angry
B) They play "for free" and are mad the ISK cost went up

Oh, they'll probably never admit that. Not publicly, anyway.
Twisted Evil

Zagdul
Gallente
Clan Shadow Wolf
Fatal Ascension
Posted - 2011.07.14 21:57:00 - [57]
 

Originally by: Akita T
Edited by: Akita T on 14/07/2011 21:49:11
Originally by: Mitra Warpsmith
Originally by: Akita T
OP TL;DR : people do not actually oppose the introduction of MT/P2W (especially since we had some variation of it already, namely GTC/PLEX), they only really oppose "bypassing the player economy" in the form of stuff showing up - or better said, they can easily convince themselves it's all fine as long as it's not rubbed in their faces.

As I mention in here (with example), you DON'T necessarily have to have NEX items spawn out of nowhere and bypass and/or screw up the economy, quite the opposite.
You can even integrate a whole new "tech level" of absolutely everything if you want with key items needed (various components, BPCs) obtainable from the NEX, as long as it's not noticeably overpowered and is also priced in such a way as to NOT displace existing products from the marketplace.
Also, making them manufacturable only in non-CONCORD-protected areas, but with the key NEX components obtainable elsewhere (so there HAS to be some exposure to risk of destruction involved) would go a long way towards easing or even mostly dissipating any apprehension with regards to "AUR-derived items".

You mean it just shows up like an LP ship?

It is my perception that a lot of the angry people are actually stuck to the already discredited idea that you could actually buy a "vanity ship" by only using AUR and nothing else (unlike the LP-shop ships, for which you need to either trade in a base ship OR build it from a BPC).
They (the particular group of angry people I just referenced) seemed to have missed the part where it was only considered to introduce a single ship (Ishukone Scorpion) in a limited fashion like that until the NEX could be expanded/improved to actually function in a fashion similar to a LP-shop (i.e. be able to dispense BPCs and/or consume something else other than just AUR in the process).

Other than that, there actually is one additional (minor, but relevant) distinction between the NEX and a LP-shop : the former is available in any station, whereas the latter is only available in a handful of stations.
Or, better said, any particular LP-shop offer is only available in a handful of stations (belonging to a particular NPC corp), while all NEX offers are available in any and all stations.

Quote:
The grasping at threads is getting comical. When are all the complainers just going to admit:
A) They can not afford a monocle and are angry
B) They play "for free" and are mad the ISK cost went up

Oh, they'll probably never admit that. Not publicly, anyway.
Twisted Evil


I'm of the group that feels people are, right now, overreacting and need to chill out. The discussions have been beaten to death and the point has been heard.

If CCP adds a gold scorp to the game that people can buy without building, sure... it'll break the concept that has made eve the sandbox that we've learned it to be.

They haven't yet. If you keep playing (even by plex) they're still supporting the development philosophies CCP uses to create EVE. As PLEX, still puts money in CCP's pocket.

Kazini Jax
Gallente
Starlight Operations
Starlight Network
Posted - 2011.07.14 22:00:00 - [58]
 

Originally by: Cipher Jones
ROFL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
How many mercs can you buy for 500 dollars, and how many can you fit through the static? I can hire as many as I can fit through the static without spending a penny of real life money.

I would get the biggest e-boner of flattery +5 ever if someone did that.


yup, you failed. I was testing to see if you were actually trying to make a point, but you're not. You're just some kid trying to get an epeen. How sad.

So, there is a form of P2W and you just choose not to see it as you have said NOTHING that refutes it. Buying resources with RL money is buying an advantage. That is an unarguable statement. It does not matter your skill level cause not everyone that buys stuff with RL money is a noob.

Like the guy above said, White Noise buys cap fleet with PLEX, destroys North. Whether it actually happened that way is irrelelvant as there is nothing to stop it from it actually happening that way. RM advantage

BoBoZoBo
MGroup9
Posted - 2011.07.14 22:05:00 - [59]
 

Yes it is, considering the fact thousands use it every day for that very thing.

Seriously, who do you think will win a SOV fight in the long run.. Alliance A using ONLY subscription and in-game mechanics to get supply the fight... or Alliance B using hundreds of dollars in PLEX to supplement the fight.

PLEX is an immediate injection of cash allowing you instant resource benefits from a source outside the game. Sure it better than non-destructible golden ammo, but it is CERTAINLY a game changing tactic as those with more real life money can decisively change the outcome of a SOV fight just by buying more PLEX and, in turn, replenishing their supply/force faster without having to use the time-intensive in game mechanics.

Tukashi Talie-Kuo
Posted - 2011.07.15 08:20:00 - [60]
 

Originally by: Zagdul
Originally by: Oyuki Sada
Edited by: Oyuki Sada on 14/07/2011 06:15:24
Originally by: Zagdul
Edited by: Zagdul on 14/07/2011 03:53:40
Plex has a problem right now, the super rich in EVE horde it and play market games with it. This way they can control prices on items they wish to sell. PLEX runs the market right now and there needs to be a PLEX sink.

In comes AUR.

It's not hard really. Lot less words too.


Solving one market distortion with another (completely artifical) market distortion is unlikely to end well.

Perhaps I'm being cynical, but it seems every 'solution' CCP comes up with to solve issues in the game involves them making more money, and every 'solution' sends the EVE economy further down the rabbit hole.

Edit: If PLEX hoarding barons are really the problem, then why not simply make PLEX trades a one time deal? i.e. once bought off the market, they are no-longer a tradable item and must be activated.


In a market like EVE's the player feels as though they have control over it. And for the most part they do. However, with PLEX CCP has added an item that they create out of thin air by use of RL monies.

The issue here is that this item is also used to pay to win and has inflated the market.

There are basically 2 ways to fix this.

1. Create more isk faucets.
2. Create a PLEX sink.

CCP chose the later.

Posting on an ALT as my unsubbed account ran out.

I'm not exactly an economist, but I'll attempt to apply my limited logic.

Option 1
Increases all player's in-game income -> ISK inflation -> All in-game item prices go up -> Drags up the price of PLEX so that it equalizes with it's previous buying power.

Option 2
Increases the demand for PLEX -> PLEX ISK price increases -> Drags up all in-game item prices to equalize with the increased PLEX buying power.

Both options cause ISK inflation, though perhaps followed by some price stabilization. But I'm not really sure what the point is.

Option 1: basically doesn't do much because players are compensated by higher incomes, so why bother.
Option 2: makes everyone not using MT to fund their EVE endeavours proportionally poorer than those who do.

The PLEX situation was bad before, but if my logic is correct then this makes it worse.


Pages: 1 [2] 3

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only