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Jesspa
Posted - 2011.07.13 09:59:00 - [1]
 

After a long time getting my mining as efficient as possible I've just started delving into Planetary Interaction. I got a bit hooked very quickly by the relative ease and low cost of starting out, and quickly built up a couple of different production lines.

However, in traditional 'doing things backwards' fashion, I'm now starting to work out how to make PI actually pay. After I vaguely worked out in my head how long it would take me to make 1mil from the P2 products I was manufacturing and the P3 products I was planning on making I sat down and created a spreadsheet (I'm sure EVE is still the only game that drives you to Office). I entered in the cycle times, units per cycle and current market ISK per unit for materials at each stage of production (P0, P1, P2 etc.), and it was immediately obvious that selling the raw materials (e.g. Planktic Colonies, Noble Gas) is far more profitable than selling any other of the products higher up the production chain, though still hardly anything to get excited about.

I just wondered whether I'm missing something fundamental. I've done some Googling on the subject and can't find any key point that I'm not taking into account. Indeed, the general consensus is that PI is not very profitable, even in 0.0 with intensive maintenance. But my calculations suggest that it would take a long time to make any amount of money worth mentioning. If I'm right, why do people bother at all? Since you can only have a maximum of six planets being mined at a time I don't even see how volume could make it worthwhile.

Also, could somebody explain how the raw materials can possibly be worth more than the P1, P2 and P3 products that they are constituents of? I know a dynamic market doesn't always make logical sense, but who would buy raw materials to manufacture goods which sell for less than those raw materials? Some posters on other threads have said that they don't do any mining at all on planets, they just buy all the raw materials and have planets set up solely for manufacturing P3 goods, and this maximizes profit. How can that be anything but loss-making when the raw materials cost more than the goods sell for?

I like PI, and I'm happy to spend a lot of time visiting my colonies regularly to keep yield high, etc. but if it really is as poorly paying as it seems to be I think I'll just leave my extractors sucking out raw materials and sell those since the effort is minimal. I hope I'm wrong, though - I'd like to get a real industry going on if it's worthwhile! Please tell me what I'm missing!

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2011.07.13 11:31:00 - [2]
 

Edited by: Akita T on 13/07/2011 11:39:19
Originally by: Jesspa
I just wondered whether I'm missing something fundamental. [...] why do people bother at all?

While getting high skills in PI can take a while, limiting yourself to "the basics" (mostly L3s, a few L4) on all three character slots of an account yields better overall results.

Put idle datacore harvesting (which is now basically just a matter of getting the needed skills because yo already have access to all L1 agents on char creation, and access to all L2 agents is merely a L3 skill and a single mission of any kind away) together with mostly idle PI, all of that on three separate characters on the same account, figure out likely profit per month then compare to the price of PLEX - you'll probably find that you're going to have a bit of leftover ISK even from that.

Long story short, the profit may be small, but the entry barrier is tiny.
Those things kind of tend to go hand in hand to some degree.

Originally by: Jesspa
Also, could somebody explain how the raw materials can possibly be worth more than the P1, P2 and P3 products that they are constituents of?

You should probably recheck the accuracy of your spreadsheet and the prices you use in your spreadsheet too.

For most higher-tier PI products, whenever that happens, it is usually just a temporary thing (but it can take a while to correct itself sometimes).
Some others however are unlikely to be sold above manufacture cost any time soon, because huge pre-PI NPC-purchased stockpiles still exist.

Also, it's more of a trade profit than manufacture profit - it's usually more difficult to actually sell lower-tier products and buy higher-tier ones than it is to selll high tier and buy low tier (in terms of need to fiddle with orders), so you can exploit the difference. It's certainly better than trying to "flip" the exact same materials in a single spot. Or at least, in theory, that's how it's supposed to be.

Yildez
Posted - 2011.07.13 11:35:00 - [3]
 

Seems to be there are many things missing in your post period like your details. You said you worked a spread sheet that showed you that producing p1 was more profitable then producing p2 and p3? That is simply crazy talk and you defintely entered your numbers wrong. I manage 6 command centers on 6 planets with minimal effort and am banking 250-300 million isk per month for about 30 minutes worth of time on them per week. If you are not using the chart to set up the p3 production lines on each of your six planets then yes you are not doing it right at all. Find the planetary interaction heirarchy interactive chart/tool and get to work and do it right.Laughing

Zelda Wei
Caldari
New Horizon Trade Exchange
Posted - 2011.07.13 11:49:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: Jesspa
If I'm right, why do people bother at all?


The all believe the stuff you create yourself is free.

Loki Sei
Posted - 2011.07.13 12:09:00 - [5]
 

Yes, there are sometimes imbalances where the price of the P1 input is higher then the P2 output. But this happens at times in almost all reactions. The last time I checked my spreadsheet, most advanced processing was generating a profit.

As for how much you can make, it depends on what you are doing. I know for the passive income stream it generates (maybe 20-30 minutes every other day, and hour to haul couple times a week, and it can be done while doing other things) that it works.

But only doing it on one slot, on one account should still generate enough to pay for the account.

Jesspa
Posted - 2011.07.13 12:44:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Yildez
Seems to be there are many things missing in your post period like your details. You said you worked a spread sheet that showed you that producing p1 was more profitable then producing p2 and p3? That is simply crazy talk and you defintely entered your numbers wrong. I manage 6 command centers on 6 planets with minimal effort and am banking 250-300 million isk per month for about 30 minutes worth of time on them per week. If you are not using the chart to set up the p3 production lines on each of your six planets then yes you are not doing it right at all. Find the planetary interaction heirarchy interactive chart/tool and get to work and do it right.Laughing


I'm quite happy to look stupid, especially as a noob to PI, if it leads to profit!

So here's what I worked out, using figures that were current last night:

Planktic Colonies: 6636 units per .25 hour cycle @3 ISK/ea = 79632 ISK/hour
Noble Gas: 11353 units per .25 hour cycle @ 1.2 ISK/ea = 54494.4 ISK/hour


Or you could process those to P1:

Biomass: 20 units per .5 hour cycle @ 400 ISK/ea = 16000/hour
Oxygen: 20 units per .5 hour cycle @140 ISK/ea = 5600/hour


So far, raw materials still produce more ISK per hour. Process those two P1 materials to P2:

Supertensile Plastics: 5 units per 1 hour cycle @ 6000 ISK/ea = 30000/hour

So the P2 goods are more profitable than P1, but still nowhere near as profitable as the raw materials each hour. I really hope there's a fatal flaw in my calculations! Especially if it's possible to make 250-300mil/month - I want some of that action! What am I doing wrong?

Shana Matika
Posted - 2011.07.13 13:03:00 - [7]
 

The base problem with PI is the volume you create per cycle.
Some Materials are OK, like Enriched Uranium.
But others like "Rocket Fuel" and such are just way out of balance. 5 Units per hour. Just one T2 Heav Missile BPC needs 88 Units + 4 in "extra Materials" at ME 0 - so a normal -4 will need 136 Units.
So for a 10 Run BPC @ ME -4 you will need 1360 Units. 272 H or 11 1/3 Days for one Factory! Cause of this many PI 2 and higher materials are way out of balance.

PI is a passive income so I think the overall profit is allright. But the numbers in some areas need massive tweaks.

djenghis jan
Amarr
Debiloff
Posted - 2011.07.13 13:30:00 - [8]
 

Compared to other activities i think PI is equivalent to running L1/L2 missions or mining in a frigate/cruiser. The amount of clicking is about the same. In high-sec the planets dry out pretty quickly and the cost of a colony is high compared to its income. I think that the strategy of CCP is to start slow to avoid disrupting the market. In the long run you can estimate the cost of running a pos by calculating the time it takes to produce fuels and compare that to mining in a hulk.

I do PI because it is new and i want to find out how to set up a colony with maximum efficiency. I can't see how to make an actual living out of it in high sec though.

Greagore
Posted - 2011.07.13 13:41:00 - [9]
 

Are you taking into consideration import/export fees as well as broker's fees and sales tax?

Don't forget the cost of hauling, it may not cost you isk but hauling millions of units of p0 can be a pain.
Also keep in mind you have to limit how much you can make because p0 takes up immensely more room than a p3 or p4 does. More storage = less factories.

Jesspa
Posted - 2011.07.13 14:09:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Greagore
Are you taking into consideration import/export fees as well as broker's fees and sales tax?

I wasn't, thinking that the differences in profit between P0 and P2 was so huge that it would absorb those costs. I've plugged them into my spreadsheet and I still believe that P0 comes out most profitable.

Quote:
Don't forget the cost of hauling, it may not cost you isk but hauling millions of units of p0 can be a pain.

Good point. I hadn't thought about the additional work involved in hauling, but then I don't mind putting in extra leg work to make more ISK. I expect greater effort to be rewarded with higher profit.

Quote:
Also keep in mind you have to limit how much you can make because p0 takes up immensely more room than a p3 or p4 does. More storage = less factories.

Another reason to ignore anything higher than P0 and just export those raw materials. No need for factories or trying to balance extraction rates with manufacturing rates.

But I'm still happy to be proven wrong!

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2011.07.13 14:12:00 - [11]
 

Edited by: Akita T on 13/07/2011 14:31:13

Originally by: Jesspa
Planktic Colonies: 6636 units per .25 hour cycle @3 ISK/ea = 79632 ISK/hour
[...]
Biomass: 20 units per .5 hour cycle @ 400 ISK/ea = 16000/hour
[...]
Supertensile Plastics: 5 units per 1 hour cycle @ 6000 ISK/ea = 30000/hour
[...]
I really hope there's a fatal flaw in my calculations! Especially if it's possible to make 250-300mil/month - I want some of that action! What am I doing wrong?

Well, for starters, one is produced with an extractor, the others with a factory. The extractors you need to "recycle" every now and then to keep up those extraction numbers, and they can actually dry out. The factory however keeps processing. And an extractor with as many heads as you mentioned does not "eat up" the same amount of tf/MW as a factory, you need to provide far more storage space and also need to come on hauling much more often (20 m^3 of planktic colonies turn into 7.6 m^3 of biomass) - and additional hauling is not exactly something you're likely to want to do for no additional profit.
Oh, and it's more like 2.5 ISK/unit on average for the planktic colonies, not 3 ISK/unit. Plus the volume sold is very low and highly, HIGHLY erratic, just like the price, whereas biomass sells quite steadily as far as price goes and in huge volumes compared to planktic colonies.

Now, looking at the Supertensile Plastics example, and fudging the import/export fees for a minute, you get (current sell prices in Jita) 5 StP at 5800 each (29k income) for a cost of 40 oxy @ 113 plus 40 biomass @ 412 (so 21k), minus fees and blah blah let's call that a lowball 5k ISK per factory per hour instead of 8k.
I honestly don't even remember how high the taxes are, if they're high enough to drop profit below that line, feel free to readjust calculations (I seriously doubt it's anywhere close to that though).
You can set up, let's round it to 20 factories per planet (should fit alongside some nice storage space with L4 skills if memory serves right), on 5 planets (or 6 if you can be bothered with L5 skills), if you keep buying biomass and oxygen and hauling it in.
So 5k*20*5=500k+ per hour. Half a mil * 24h * 30 days = 360+ mil ISK/month.
And that's just ONE character on the account, with just two L4 PI skills trained at all, on a planet just besides a major trade hub with NO interest in the concentration of materials available on the planet since you don't extract any.
On the other hand, you have to haul in 70k+ m^3 of goods in and haul out 18k m^3 on a daily basis, but that's not such a big deal if you're using a planet right near a hub. And you can ramp down the number of factories and ramp up the number of storages so you have to make trips less often but with larger loads per trip (and why not, just use a freighter or an orca or whatever) .

So... there you go.
Looks quite damn profitable to me.

mnybag2
Posted - 2011.07.13 14:31:00 - [12]
 

It really does depend how much time youre willing to spend hauling.

If you run a planet in a .3 system or lower making POS fuels you can get 10 units of T3 an hour which translates to about 10 mil per planet per month and only have to haul once every two weeks.

The same planet will fill a launch pad in about a day, two tops, if all youre doing is extracting raws with no processing.

Furthermore, I have not checked the numbers myself recently but I had a friend who used to just do raws and we had done the math and the export costs for such a high volume of goods vastly outweighed any additional income you would get from just mining the raws.


Personally i think your time is better spent day to day mining/missioning while doing PI in the background. Getting a passive 400+ mil a month on top of mining/missioning gets you a pretty iskie.

Jesspa
Posted - 2011.07.13 14:48:00 - [13]
 

Akita, I really appreciate the time you've taken to try and explain this to me, thank you.

I think it's becoming clearer. My first reaction was that, just as you are increasing the number of factories to boost production volumes of Supertensile Plastics you could increase the number of extractors to boost extraction of raw materials, thus increasing profit even further. But, although I don't mind hauling frequently, I calculate that I'd have to haul about 13 loads of Planktic Colonies to make the same ISK as one load of Supertensile Plastics, so that is quite a trade-off.

Also, your point about the wild fluctuation in prices of raw materials, and the volumes in which they are purchased, is an excellent one. However, in calculating the income of 360m/month you've missed out the cost of buying in the raw materials, which isn't insignificant.

I'd rather extract all the raw materials myself but I can see that my head is going to get even more wrecked working out how to get the optimal balance between extraction and manufacturing!

mnybag2
Posted - 2011.07.13 15:01:00 - [14]
 

Actually that one is pretty easy. It does depend on the system and planet as to how much an extrator will get of course, but you will always need 6000+ units of raw an hour per factory to keep it running constantly. If youre doing tier 2 stuff than you need one of each type t1 factory per t2 factory to keep it running constantly. On a high sec planet harvesting just one type i suspect 1 ECU with max arms, 2 spaceports (one for raw and one for processed) and 2 or 3 factories is about right. im used to low sec planets so if thats incorrect i apoligize. I know that a .3 planet or lower planet, you can have two ecus, 6 factories, and 2 spaceports, and have everything running constantly on a 24 hr cycle.

Jesspa
Posted - 2011.07.13 15:48:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: mnybag2
Actually that one is pretty easy. It does depend on the system and planet as to how much an extrator will get of course, but you will always need 6000+ units of raw an hour per factory to keep it running constantly. If youre doing tier 2 stuff than you need one of each type t1 factory per t2 factory to keep it running constantly. On a high sec planet harvesting just one type i suspect 1 ECU with max arms, 2 spaceports (one for raw and one for processed) and 2 or 3 factories is about right. im used to low sec planets so if thats incorrect i apoligize. I know that a .3 planet or lower planet, you can have two ecus, 6 factories, and 2 spaceports, and have everything running constantly on a 24 hr cycle.


That's useful to know, thanks for the summary. I thought planets were the same in hisec and losec, the difference in profitability coming from the greater demand resulting from lower supply in losec.

The setup you described is pretty much what I have, but that's not producing enough T2 to be very profitable. I want more factories! I'm going to work out how profitable it would be to do all the manufacturing on a planet with no extraction taking place, so that I can have 20 or so factories there.

Invictra Atreides
Caldari
Posted - 2011.07.13 15:48:00 - [16]
 

Edited by: Invictra Atreides on 13/07/2011 15:50:33
Originally by: mnybag2
Actually that one is.... text text text
2 ECUs ? Did you mean that with all 10 heads activated. I find it hard to believe that there would be power left for anything else. Although 2x ECU is overkill in a WH system Very Happy Just imagining the amount of m3 that I would need to haul is making me cry.

I got some storm planets. 1 ECU with 10 heads in a WH system gives me 44.000 units/h on a 2 day cycle.

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2011.07.13 15:48:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Jesspa
However, in calculating the income of 360m/month you've missed out the cost of buying in the raw materials

Look again Wink
40 oxy @ 113 plus 40 biomass @ 412 = cost 21k -> 5 StP at 5800 each = income 29k -> 8k profit per factory per hour (minus fees/taxes)
I used 5k/h instead of 8k/h in the calculations after that.

Jesspa
Posted - 2011.07.13 15:56:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Jesspa
However, in calculating the income of 360m/month you've missed out the cost of buying in the raw materials

Look again Wink
40 oxy @ 113 plus 40 biomass @ 412 = cost 21k -> 5 StP at 5800 each = income 29k -> 8k profit per factory per hour (minus fees/taxes)
I used 5k/h instead of 8k/h in the calculations after that.

Ah yes... That's why you're making the money and I'm posting on forums trying to get a clue. Very Happy

Wyke Mossari
Gallente
Posted - 2011.07.13 21:01:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Jesspa

Ah yes... That's why you're making the money and I'm posting on forums trying to get a clue. Very Happy


Not from PI, the vast majority of PI items are unprofitable to produce and have been for some time.


Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2011.07.14 00:15:00 - [20]
 

Edited by: Akita T on 14/07/2011 00:59:05
Originally by: Wyke Mossari
Not from PI, the vast majority of PI items are unprofitable to produce and have been for some time.

Why are you using median sell price instead of minimum sell or even maximum buy for P1 material purchase price lookups ? Those are highly distorted values, not really representative of the actual prices you can expect to purchase them at.
For instance, in the exact same example used above, your spreadsheet uses 165+ ISK for oxygen and 462+ ISK for biomass instead of the more reasonable ~114/~400 from lowest sell (or even the possible ~108/~301 from highest buy) - that's already a 4.5k potential profit difference you're just "throwing out", leaving you with a listed profit of under 1.4k per factory cycle (so barely a quarter of what you could actually expect).

P.S. There's a lot of "red" (losses) turning "green" (profit) if you use Forge lowest sell order values for all components.
https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=ta0T0G3SMZ15h5pz86huGIQ#gid=10
^ modified pricing scheme spreadsheet

IL PAPE
Posted - 2011.07.14 03:57:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Akita T
Why are you using median sell price instead of minimum sell or even maximum buy for P1 material purchase price lookups ? Those are highly distorted values, not really representative of the actual prices you can expect to purchase them at.


Fairly simple answer: most players are willing to accept the forum opinion that PI is terrible and that is how players continue to profit. Most of the serious PI junkies burned out on the clickfest trying to manage 20+ characters a day, the other large group of would-be users tried extracting from highsec and also threw in the towel early. While the method you described is not a secret, it's simply drowned out by the throngs of players who legitimately don't get it and the equally loud voice of self-interested parties who hope more people don't pick it up.

I've experimented with PI and have been fairly successful. I started an account solely for the purpose of seeing how much I could get out of three highsec PI characters and that account is not only paying for itself, but also paying for two other accounts. This has involved a bit of research and a dash of speculation at times, but it is certainly sustainable. I would definitely suggest anyone with a solid investment in datacore farming re-consider PI if they have written it off for one reason or another.

Wyke Mossari
Gallente
Posted - 2011.07.14 12:38:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Akita T

Why are you using median sell price instead of minimum sell or even maximum buy for P1 material purchase price lookups ?


That is the most appropriate value to use given Accounting principle of prudence.

Originally by: Akita T

Those are highly distorted values, not really representative of the actual prices you can expect to purchase them at.


No, sell low or buy high prices would be the distorted valuation because they conflate separate commercial activities; procurement, manufacturing and sales.

This is essentially a projection of a manufacturing account it is not a trading account.

Originally by: Akita T

that's already a 4.5k potential profit difference you're just "throwing out", leaving you with a listed profit of under 1.4k per factory cycle (so barely a quarter of what you could actually expect).

P.S. There's a lot of "red" (losses) turning "green" (profit) if you use Forge lowest sell order values for all components.
https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=ta0T0G3SMZ15h5pz86huGIQ#gid=10
^ modified pricing scheme spreadsheet



Prudent accounting is about assured profit, not possible or potential profit. Prudent accounting avoids the situation of the projection showing a profit when a lose is made when the plan is placed into practice which would result when the sell price is used but is in reality small outlier order, when the bulk is 10% more expensive.

The original eve-metric version of the spreadsheet used the simulated buy price, which was the average price of 5% or 10% of sales orders. The eve-central median price proved to be the most similar.

c.f. Transfer Pricing, Constraint Theory and throughput accounting.

Wyke Mossari
Gallente
Posted - 2011.07.14 12:44:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: IL PAPE

Fairly simple answer: most players are willing to accept the forum opinion that PI is terrible and that is how players continue to profit.


Revenue != Profit.

mnybag2
Posted - 2011.07.14 13:05:00 - [24]
 

I use two ECUs because i have to harvest two different raw materials which cannot be done with only one unless you switch what youre harvesting every other day.

With two ECUs, CC to lvl 4, and enough extactor heads to bring in 12000 of each raw an hour, i still have enough for 6 factories and two spaceports with room left over.

Should be noted that for the above set up to work you do need to upgrade the links from the ECUs to the spaceports.

Kelmurdoch
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2011.07.14 14:35:00 - [25]
 

I export P4 from null sec simply because it's the cheapest cost per m3 to JF out. If that wasn't a barrier to profitability I'd forgo the entire P3 and P4 process and simply sell my P2 to all willing buyers.

I run 5 accounts for 90 potential planets (6/pilot*3 pilots/account), though haven't gotten it all online yet.
8 planets generate P4 from P2, using 2 high tech factories per planet for a max of 48 P4 per day per planet.
12 planets generate P2 from P1, 11 advanced factories per P2, 2 lines per planet. This more than meets my P4 input needs.
The remaining 70 planets generate P1, 1 ECU per planet, on three day cycles to lessen my burnout tendency.
I intend to generate 48 of each P4 every day. Conservatively, at 400k profit per P4 (minus JF cost, import/export fees) that's 154 mil per day, or 4.6 bil/month.
Once set up and serviced by Iteron Vs I calculate I'll spend ~15 hours/month doing PI hauling, etc.
If my plex cost is 2 bil/month, I'll make a tidy profit on a relatively insignificant time investment.
That's how PI is profitable.



Invictra Atreides
Caldari
Posted - 2011.07.14 18:39:00 - [26]
 

@Kelmurdoch That is sick man O_O Hope you can manage it!

I'm at 2 accounts and make from 1.5 to 2 bil per month minus PLEX. I generate about 5 mil of P1 per month. And I need to haul that from a Class 1 WH to HighSec. Thats about 2.000.000 m3. My Badger II can hold 24561.8 m3.

I think its about 80 Trips trough a WH.

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2011.07.14 22:32:00 - [27]
 

Edited by: Akita T on 14/07/2011 22:39:49
Originally by: Wyke Mossari
Originally by: Akita T
[median sell is a] highly distorted value, not really representative of the actual prices you can expect to purchase them at.

No, sell low or buy high prices would be the distorted valuation because they conflate separate commercial activities; procurement, manufacturing and sales.
This is essentially a projection of a manufacturing account it is not a trading account.
[...]
Prudent accounting is about assured profit, not possible or potential profit.

In the real world, I would probably agree that it would indeed be prudent to frame it that way.
However, in EVE, if you look at it THAT way, you will find that there's very little (if anything, at times) that could be manufactured for a profit, be it T1, T2, PI stuff or almost anything else.
Yet somehow (:snicker:), people in the manufacture business keep increasing their NAV heavily all the time.

In EVE, "industrialist" profits are quite often equal share of actual manufacture profits and trade profits, or sometimes, almost only trade profits which are enabled by the "transformation" realized via manufacture.
So, in EVE, I find it is "prudent enough" to take lowest Jita sell order prices as being the price you are almost guaranteed to be able to buy enough of the needed materials (usually you can get them even cheaper), and the price you are almost guaranteed to obtain when you sell your finished product (very seldom will it be that you need to sell lower).
From a PRACTICAL standpoint, using Jita sell prices (and adding transaction taxes on top) for your overall trade+manufacture combo platter profit calculation is as accurate as it needs to be in order to best guide you to the best deals.


ALTERNATIVELY, you could have several different columns in the spreadsheet : best reasonable profit (best buy for materials, best sell for finished product) and minimum reasonable profit (best sell for materials, best sell for product) - I used the latter.
You could also add "maximum potential profit" (median buy for mats, median sell for product) and leave the current one in too, naming it maybe "prudent profit estimate" (i.e. median sell for everything).

Rindon Callsar
Posted - 2011.07.16 03:30:00 - [28]
 

Edited by: Rindon Callsar on 16/07/2011 03:35:56
I have just been getting into PI for myself recently. Set up in a 0.4 system with 5 planets up and running. Have 2 advanced and 6 basic plants per planet making only t2 items. Most of my skills are lvl 4.

With having 2 day cycles set up I estimate that I can pull in about 80-100mil a month based on Jita prices. IMO, 80-100mil for clicking a few buttons every 2 days and then the rare occasion when I will go to pick the items up, it is worth it. Yes this may not seem like much to some people but for me it is basically passive income. Gotta love some free monies.


Like someone mentioned above, if you want to make money you have to move to a WH. PI production goes high sec < low sec < null sec < WH.
Even c1 WH's have a ton more output than the other systems. But it does all come down to how much time you are willing to invest. For me, the 15 minutes a month I will most likely spend is worth the 80-100mil. For someone who wants to spend hours/days to do 80 trips in a slow boat out of a WH to a place to sell you can make ridiculous amounts of money.

Katja Norolyev
Posted - 2011.07.16 23:20:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: Invictra Atreides
@Kelmurdoch That is sick man O_O Hope you can manage it!

I'm at 2 accounts and make from 1.5 to 2 bil per month minus PLEX. I generate about 5 mil of P1 per month. And I need to haul that from a Class 1 WH to HighSec. Thats about 2.000.000 m3. My Badger II can hold 24561.8 m3.

I think its about 80 Trips trough a WH.


An itty V with a full set of cargo rigs and lows, and a full load of GSCs can just about double that capacity, I believe.

Probably worth it, if it cuts 80 trips down to 40. What you really need, though, is an Orca.

Franny
Mentis Seorsum
Posted - 2011.07.17 06:15:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Katja Norolyev
Originally by: Invictra Atreides
@Kelmurdoch That is sick man O_O Hope you can manage it!

I'm at 2 accounts and make from 1.5 to 2 bil per month minus PLEX. I generate about 5 mil of P1 per month. And I need to haul that from a Class 1 WH to HighSec. Thats about 2.000.000 m3. My Badger II can hold 24561.8 m3.

I think its about 80 Trips trough a WH.


An itty V with a full set of cargo rigs and lows, and a full load of GSCs can just about double that capacity, I believe.

Probably worth it, if it cuts 80 trips down to 40. What you really need, though, is an Orca.


(at work calculator #s)
itty 5 with T2 expanders, T1 rigs(ie cheap), nets you 12 GSCs and a little space... total with the GSCs is like 49233m3
itty 5 with T2 expanders, changing out for 1 T2 rig adds another GSC... total with GSCs is like 51804m3(this is more than the T2 haulers get btw)
itty 5 with T2 expanders and 2 T2 rigs does not get you a 14th GSC :( ... total with cans is like 53548m3

assuming warp to 0 and a scout(in and out of the WH), toss on some shield expander 2s and it should be safe enough to get to a station system and it can be freightered to Jita(or wherever you want it), with 2 trips in a 'freighter 4 or 5' char you end up with some leftover you can either break it up to 3 trips or hold it till you have enough for a 3rd full trip

does an Orca even fit into a C1?


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