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Ajunyx
Minmatar
Tactical Narcotics Team
Posted - 2011.07.13 11:51:00 - [31]
 

On no thats totally what CCP should do. CCP should go about asking every single individual EVE player what they think would be good for EVE online as opposed to asking the community to elect members of the player-base who would put forward a general consensus about what needs to be done. Thats exactly what should happen.

Just kidding no it shouldn't you're braindead.


Khamelean
Posted - 2011.07.13 12:09:00 - [32]
 

Originally by: edith prickley
Originally by: Khamelean
Originally by: edith prickley

If there was an indication of solid progress any one of these directions, the player base would be more understanding, even if their own particular agenda wasn't being catered to. Other game companies deal with equally diverse communities, and somehow manage not to alienate them.

For my part, I'm strongly against MT of any sort ... but if they came up with a strong, compelling implementation which showed some promising direction and innovation, I'd be open minded enough to let it slide.

With Incarna, it's difficult even for people who are keen on the new features to stand behind them, because the implementation has been shoddy and/or broken. There is a diversity of complaints, because there's a lot to complain about and people have to take their pick.

I'd also note that some of those contradictory protests result from mis-managed expectations. If you asked last year, there would be a strong consensus against MT and they would never have started down this road. Apparently CQ both melts computers while looking like crap, so understandably people who were told to expect something different are both disappointed.


If your against MT of any sort, why are still playing a game that has supported MT for years?


I'm not.

And PLEX was an interesting innovative experiment of the sort that I mentioned, so I did stick around.

How's the weather in Iceland today?


If your happy with the PLEX system, think of vanity items as PLEX you can wear. No more problem :)

Signal11th
Posted - 2011.07.13 12:30:00 - [33]
 

Edited by: Signal11th on 13/07/2011 12:46:55
I stand corrected by the EVE Team debating team captain (nicked from someone else)

edith prickley
Posted - 2011.07.13 12:44:00 - [34]
 

Originally by: Khamelean
Originally by: edith prickley
Originally by: Khamelean
Originally by: edith prickley

If there was an indication of solid progress any one of these directions, the player base would be more understanding, even if their own particular agenda wasn't being catered to. Other game companies deal with equally diverse communities, and somehow manage not to alienate them.

For my part, I'm strongly against MT of any sort ... but if they came up with a strong, compelling implementation which showed some promising direction and innovation, I'd be open minded enough to let it slide.

With Incarna, it's difficult even for people who are keen on the new features to stand behind them, because the implementation has been shoddy and/or broken. There is a diversity of complaints, because there's a lot to complain about and people have to take their pick.

I'd also note that some of those contradictory protests result from mis-managed expectations. If you asked last year, there would be a strong consensus against MT and they would never have started down this road. Apparently CQ both melts computers while looking like crap, so understandably people who were told to expect something different are both disappointed.


If your against MT of any sort, why are still playing a game that has supported MT for years?


I'm not.

And PLEX was an interesting innovative experiment of the sort that I mentioned, so I did stick around.

How's the weather in Iceland today?


If your happy with the PLEX system, think of vanity items as PLEX you can wear. No more problem :)

You're making assumptions again: I'm not really happy with the PLEX system. Most of its influence on the game has been negative, IMO, but it was an interesting enough idea to be worth seeing how it turned out.

If PLEX and NEX are the same to you, then you should probably just ask one of your colleagues in Eyjo's department for an explanation of how they differ.

Important Person
Posted - 2011.07.13 13:16:00 - [35]
 

Originally by: ChromeStriker
Originally by: Asta Ddu
Originally by: Wreckar
Considering the protestors couldn't even agree what they were protesting about...

I want MT but no P2W
I don't want any MT
I want more content
I want less content more bugfixes
CQ is too graphic intensive, it's melting my computer
CQ is too ugly, needs more detail
I dont want CQ
I want WiS

Yeah good luck with that.



I want








Cake
or
Cookies
or
Pie




BACON!!


NO YOU'RE ALL WRONG. NEEDS MORE FROOT LOOPS!

Khamelean
Posted - 2011.07.13 14:16:00 - [36]
 

Originally by: edith prickley

You're making assumptions again: I'm not really happy with the PLEX system. Most of its influence on the game has been negative, IMO, but it was an interesting enough idea to be worth seeing how it turned out.

If PLEX and NEX are the same to you, then you should probably just ask one of your colleagues in Eyjo's department for an explanation of how they differ.


Sorry, it wasn't my intention to make assumptions, I only used the word happy as it applies to the extent that you were not unhappy with the plex system. At least not unhappy enough to quit.

I'm interested in your opinion on how plex ad nex differ relative to game mechanics and economy?.

They can both be spawned in the game through real money.
The number of vanity items in game has no more effect on the economy than does the number of plex in game.
Neither effects gameplay, except that you can sell them to buy itms that do.
They can both be destroyed if they're in your cargo hold.

one you can wear, one you can't, hence the term wearable plex ")

Sasio Shihari
Posted - 2011.07.13 14:51:00 - [37]
 

Originally by: Habaticus
Face the facts - the large majority of the CSM want to make 0.0 a better playgound. They will suck up to and coddle the Devs (who are getting off on the hugs) to accomplish that goal. Read the CSM minutes carefully and you'll realize they want to nerf the economy and ruin Hi-sec industry for their gain. The wanting to remove ABC minerals from wormholes was especially telling.


QFT unfortunately...

But I still say that the candidate I voted for does represent my interests. She didn't have a 1000+ alliance backing her up, and still made it onto the council.

Draconyx
Posted - 2011.07.13 15:09:00 - [38]
 

I want to see what is behind the door, and CCP shouldn't gawk at that request as they started it.

So really I want a new GUI and I want THIS

That is it.

Gorben
Caldari
G-Force
Just a Bunch Of Corporations
Posted - 2011.07.13 15:14:00 - [39]
 

I wonder. Did you vote for the CSM ever ?

Cashcow Golden Goose
Posted - 2011.07.13 15:20:00 - [40]
 

Originally by: Gorben
I wonder. Did you vote for the CSM ever ?

No member of the CSM ever voted for me, yet they seem to think they know all about me, what I want, and which lies are most likely to soothe me.

jackaloped
Posted - 2011.07.13 15:21:00 - [41]
 

CSM5 made lists of backlogs. Prioritized the lists backlogs. Catagorized the lists of backlogs. Made wikis about the backlog. Now they want another prioritzation?

Here is the deal: Nothing suggests they are assigning more devs to eve's core gameplay. In fact they say they are not going to do that.


You can give them all sorts of different lists/priorities etc. in different languages, fonts and colors and it won't matter. If they don't assign more people to work on eve then they won't get through these lists any faster.

That is what csm needs to work on. "Encouraging" ccp to spend some resources on eve.

CSM really should not address any other business at any summits until that is confirmed. Because until CCP indicates they will assign people to work on eve the conversations will just be more empty talk.

Llambda
Space Llama Industries
Posted - 2011.07.13 15:23:00 - [42]
 

Originally by: Akita T

Should have voted for candidates you would have liked more in the damned election and got your friends to vote of them too, shouldn't you ?
Oh, wait, you're NOT interested in ACTUALLY doing anything in a pre-emptive fashion and merely react to something when it's way past "late".
Twisted Evil



This is... truly amazing. It would be particularly stupid coming from anyone, but coming from you, it's baffling how stupid it is.

Were you sold?

Montevius Williams
Gallente
Posted - 2011.07.13 15:53:00 - [43]
 

Originally by: Cashcow Golden Goose
Originally by: Gorben
I wonder. Did you vote for the CSM ever ?

No member of the CSM ever voted for me, yet they seem to think they know all about me, what I want, and which lies are most likely to soothe me.


Haha, welcome to politics - fact is, the CSM IS the players voice whether you like it or not. When the **** hit the fan with the monocle gate fiasco, CCP didnt say, lets ask all the players whats wrong. They said, lets get the CSM down to Iceland so we can get a feel of what the players are concerned about. The CSM is the players representative. Whether or not you like the CSM is a different topic.

edith prickley
Posted - 2011.07.13 16:01:00 - [44]
 

Originally by: Khamelean
Originally by: edith prickley

You're making assumptions again: I'm not really happy with the PLEX system. Most of its influence on the game has been negative, IMO, but it was an interesting enough idea to be worth seeing how it turned out.

If PLEX and NEX are the same to you, then you should probably just ask one of your colleagues in Eyjo's department for an explanation of how they differ.


Sorry, it wasn't my intention to make assumptions, I only used the word happy as it applies to the extent that you were not unhappy with the plex system. At least not unhappy enough to quit.

I'm interested in your opinion on how plex ad nex differ relative to game mechanics and economy?.

They can both be spawned in the game through real money.
The number of vanity items in game has no more effect on the economy than does the number of plex in game.
Neither effects gameplay, except that you can sell them to buy itms that do.
They can both be destroyed if they're in your cargo hold.

one you can wear, one you can't, hence the term wearable plex ")

PLEX can be traded on the in-game market. They go to buy goods and services provided by players as their in-game jobs. The NEX store sets up a parallel market which is not run or even influenced by players, and is in competition with the regular market. The clothing items are not manufactured, and have a properties which are not shared by other in-game products (eg. indestructible). One might also worry about the fact that CCP stocks the NEX market and CCP sets the rules of the game, which creates a conflict of interest which can eventually hurt the Eve "sandbox". This problem does not exist in the case of PLEX on the regular market.

There are many (many) threads on this subject. This is a thread about the CSM vs. irrational players, so I'm not sure why you've fixated on my MT opinions, which were only illustrating a point. If you have a vested interest in the success of the MT market, please feel free to come clean about that. CCP employees are Fearless, after all.

Cashcow Golden Goose
Posted - 2011.07.13 16:08:00 - [45]
 

Originally by: Montevius Williams
Originally by: Cashcow Golden Goose
Originally by: Gorben
I wonder. Did you vote for the CSM ever ?

No member of the CSM ever voted for me, yet they seem to think they know all about me, what I want, and which lies are most likely to soothe me.


Haha, welcome to politics - fact is, the CSM IS the players voice whether you like it or not. When the **** hit the fan with the monocle gate fiasco, CCP didnt say, lets ask all the players whats wrong. They said, lets get the CSM down to Iceland so we can get a feel of what the players are concerned about. The CSM is the players representative. Whether or not you like the CSM is a different topic.


They're not my voice. This is my voice.
The CSM were not summoned to Iceland to find out what CCP could fix. CCP did not change their position on any matters after that visit. The CSM was summoned to placate the forums with additional platitudes and truthlessness. It worked.

The CSM were not summoned to Iceland to be the voice of the customers, the customers were already using their voices long before the CSM were summoned.

They will never be my voice, not while I have a voice, legs and arms. CCP's newcastle office is less than 15 minutes away from me, when I want them to hear me, they will hear me. Just like Royal Mail hear me when I want them to hear me, why TV licensing hear me when I want them to hear me, and every other private company that believes it can cross lines I have no intention of allowing them to cross with me.

The CSM is for weak individuals who need somebody else to speak for them, to speak to them in soft placating tones, a spoonful of sugar to help the medicine go down. To me they are but a cost I'm ok with paying because of the delicious entertainment they bring to the forum with their sense of entitlement, sense of empowerment and ultimate lapdog or poodle status with CCP. It's entertainment to watch them, it's entertainment to watch those that defend them and those that attack them.

When I get home from work, I get to play Eve as well. For 50 cents a day, it's damm good value for money product.

MaiLina KaTar
Posted - 2011.07.13 16:26:00 - [46]
 

Edited by: MaiLina KaTar on 13/07/2011 16:26:53
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Jonathan Ferguson
This CSM isn't looking out for 'the players,' doesn't know what's important to 'the players' and doesn't represent 'the players.'

Should have voted for candidates you would have liked more in the damned election and got your friends to vote of them too, shouldn't you ?
Oh, wait, you're NOT interested in ACTUALLY doing anything in a pre-emptive fashion and merely react to something when it's way past "late".
Twisted Evil

Quote:
Do you feel this CSM represents you and what's your top ten list? How hard would it be to find out what players want if CCP really wanted to know?

The CSM is certainly far more realistic in what can actually be done and what should be done than the entitled whiny reality-divorced bunch of people filling the forums with threads similar to this one.

Cut the bull****, Akita. Seriously.

You want a decent representation of player opinion? Well there's this thing called checkboxes. If you put them in a dialog coupled with a decent question and some sensible choices and put it in the game where it belongs you're gonna get a good ****ing representation of player opinion.

Don't give me this pseudo democratic bull****. I'm not stupid enough to buy into it. CSM doesn't represent jack**** but the interests of some of Eve's vocal nerds. If they'd be capable of accomlishing anything that actually makes a damn mark Eve wouldn't miss out on all the potential it does. And the fact that smart people like you buy into this **** is both sad and a testament to the admittedly high skill in CCP's PR department.

Harelip Jenkins
Posted - 2011.07.13 16:37:00 - [47]
 

Originally by: Kunming
Originally by: Khamelean
Originally by: edith prickley
...


If your against MT of any sort, why are still playing a game that has supported MT for years?


Trying to cook the frog slowly eh?

The people who were overly vocal about the MT stuff were the same faces who protested heavily against GTC/ETC/PLEX (myself included; I still do) back few years ago. CCP thinks PLEX isnt breaking their game, but infact PLEX + LVL4 Missions, broke EVE beyond repair. Why is no one mining, why is 0.0 empty (compared to empire), low sec fubar, FW broken, there is no point in mining, there is no point in anything anymore, cause if u want pvp u go buy a plex and join up folks that do the same. Everyone I know either won some sort of lottery or convert PLEX to ISK, only a few (really few like 4-5) players I know get their ISK with various passive incomes and even that is mostly cause of multiple alts financed with PLEX.

The immersion in EVE is gone, the virtual reality is disrupted by the influx of RL currency. Ppl dont fight to get rich, powerful or anything its all about the lulz, KB, e-peen.. And this is just what PLEX did to the game, now think about non-vanity MT.

PLEX destroyed alot of fun and immersion in EVE but it is not gamebreaking enough, and most came to live with the fact that you cant beat your opponent and financial rivalary is non existant anymore, as its not crucial for existance at all. The players dont play for the same motives anymore as they did back 5 years ago.

Why am I still here if I dont like what CCP made out of the game? Simple, its the only MMO with spaceship theme that doesnt utterly suck... yet! This wont stay like this forever (and around 2007-8 I actually had the impression I would play this game until I die out of old age), competition is on the horizon.

Oh and about MT, if I wanted to play a game with MT, it would definetly be one that revolves around PVP ONLY and EXCLUSIVELY and has no player driven economy.. or maybe I already do.



+9000


Khamelean
Posted - 2011.07.13 16:48:00 - [48]
 

Originally by: edith prickley
Originally by: Khamelean
Originally by: edith prickley

You're making assumptions again: I'm not really happy with the PLEX system. Most of its influence on the game has been negative, IMO, but it was an interesting enough idea to be worth seeing how it turned out.

If PLEX and NEX are the same to you, then you should probably just ask one of your colleagues in Eyjo's department for an explanation of how they differ.


Sorry, it wasn't my intention to make assumptions, I only used the word happy as it applies to the extent that you were not unhappy with the plex system. At least not unhappy enough to quit.

I'm interested in your opinion on how plex ad nex differ relative to game mechanics and economy?.

They can both be spawned in the game through real money.
The number of vanity items in game has no more effect on the economy than does the number of plex in game.
Neither effects gameplay, except that you can sell them to buy itms that do.
They can both be destroyed if they're in your cargo hold.

one you can wear, one you can't, hence the term wearable plex ")

PLEX can be traded on the in-game market. They go to buy goods and services provided by players as their in-game jobs. The NEX store sets up a parallel market which is not run or even influenced by players, and is in competition with the regular market. The clothing items are not manufactured, and have a properties which are not shared by other in-game products (eg. indestructible). One might also worry about the fact that CCP stocks the NEX market and CCP sets the rules of the game, which creates a conflict of interest which can eventually hurt the Eve "sandbox". This problem does not exist in the case of PLEX on the regular market.

There are many (many) threads on this subject. This is a thread about the CSM vs. irrational players, so I'm not sure why you've fixated on my MT opinions, which were only illustrating a point. If you have a vested interest in the success of the MT market, please feel free to come clean about that. CCP employees are Fearless, after all.


I was simply answering your question.

Vanity items can be traded on the in-game market
How do vanity items compete with the regular market?
They are destructible, if you put them in your hanger, just like anything else.

Thebriwan
LUX Uls Xystus
Posted - 2011.07.13 16:55:00 - [49]
 

OP knows that indeed neither the CSM is the players nor he is. So please just speak for yourself.

KingMazz ONE
Posted - 2011.07.13 16:55:00 - [50]
 

http://youtu.be/DgqzE5M5trM

edith prickley
Posted - 2011.07.13 18:19:00 - [51]
 

Edited by: edith prickley on 13/07/2011 18:22:37
Originally by: Khamelean
I was simply answering your question.

I didn't ask a question. But that reminds me, weren't you the guy criticizing another poster's literacy the other day?
Quote:

Vanity items can be traded on the in-game market

But their prices are fixed by the NEX market, setting a pretty strict upper/lower bound on the sale price, determined by the current PLEX-ISK conversion rate. So who cares?
Quote:

How do vanity items compete with the regular market?


When you have a finite amount of money, you can't buy everything you want. You have to make choices. That's all you need for competition.
Quote:

They are destructible, if you put them in your hanger, just like anything else.

Seriously? Does that actually address any of the complaints that people have?

Look, you've come to the forums to push your NEX agenda, but maybe you can also use the opportunity to read a bit and get a handle on the genuine concerns. You're making CCP look completely out of touch at the moment.

As I've said, there are dozens of threads on these topics (and you don't have to go back very far - it was quite a theme a couple of weeks ago, if I recall correctly). But instead of looking them up, you've been derailing threads all over the place to deliver these MT propaganda points. If that's what floats your boat, start your own thread with all the pro-NEX cheerleading you like, I'm sure there will be a lot of enthusiastic readers.

Montevius Williams
Gallente
Posted - 2011.07.13 18:42:00 - [52]
 

Originally by: Cashcow Golden Goose
Originally by: Montevius Williams
Originally by: Cashcow Golden Goose
Originally by: Gorben
I wonder. Did you vote for the CSM ever ?

No member of the CSM ever voted for me, yet they seem to think they know all about me, what I want, and which lies are most likely to soothe me.


Haha, welcome to politics - fact is, the CSM IS the players voice whether you like it or not. When the **** hit the fan with the monocle gate fiasco, CCP didnt say, lets ask all the players whats wrong. They said, lets get the CSM down to Iceland so we can get a feel of what the players are concerned about. The CSM is the players representative. Whether or not you like the CSM is a different topic.


They're not my voice. This is my voice.
The CSM were not summoned to Iceland to find out what CCP could fix. CCP did not change their position on any matters after that visit. The CSM was summoned to placate the forums with additional platitudes and truthlessness. It worked.

The CSM were not summoned to Iceland to be the voice of the customers, the customers were already using their voices long before the CSM were summoned.

They will never be my voice, not while I have a voice, legs and arms. CCP's newcastle office is less than 15 minutes away from me, when I want them to hear me, they will hear me. Just like Royal Mail hear me when I want them to hear me, why TV licensing hear me when I want them to hear me, and every other private company that believes it can cross lines I have no intention of allowing them to cross with me.

The CSM is for weak individuals who need somebody else to speak for them, to speak to them in soft placating tones, a spoonful of sugar to help the medicine go down. To me they are but a cost I'm ok with paying because of the delicious entertainment they bring to the forum with their sense of entitlement, sense of empowerment and ultimate lapdog or poodle status with CCP. It's entertainment to watch them, it's entertainment to watch those that defend them and those that attack them.

When I get home from work, I get to play Eve as well. For 50 cents a day, it's damm good value for money product.


I never said that the CSM was summoned to Iceland to see what CCP should fix. I said they were summonded to get a feel for what the players were concerned about - two different concepts there.

Mister Smithington
Posted - 2011.07.13 18:43:00 - [53]
 

Who knows what's best for America? The Republicans or Americans?

Omara Otawan
Posted - 2011.07.13 19:04:00 - [54]
 

Edited by: Omara Otawan on 13/07/2011 19:04:45
Originally by: Wangston Hughes
CSM. The typical EVE player is a mouth-breathing drama-***** ****** and should mostly be ignored, as made evident by countless threads like this.


The above also describes the CSM pretty well, with the addition of a pretty bad track record and a fatally one-sided agenda.

Ignore both really, as crazy as it sounds it is the way forward.

Diesel47
Posted - 2011.07.13 19:43:00 - [55]
 

Edited by: Diesel47 on 13/07/2011 19:52:07
Originally by: Khamelean
Originally by: Jonathan Ferguson
How hard would it be to find out what players want if CCP really wanted to know?


Very.

That is CCP Zinfandel??

How lame.

Post with your main, your covers blown.

LordOfDespair
Posted - 2011.07.13 19:49:00 - [56]
 

Originally by: MaiLina KaTar

Cut the bull****, Akita. Seriously.

You want a decent representation of player opinion? Well there's this thing called checkboxes. If you put them in a dialog coupled with a decent question and some sensible choices and put it in the game where it belongs you're gonna get a good ****ing representation of player opinion.

Don't give me this pseudo democratic bull****. I'm not stupid enough to buy into it. CSM doesn't represent jack**** but the interests of some of Eve's vocal nerds. If they'd be capable of accomlishing anything that actually makes a damn mark Eve wouldn't miss out on all the potential it does. And the fact that smart people like you buy into this **** is both sad and a testament to the admittedly high skill in CCP's PR department.


Amen.

Pure Tabasco
Posted - 2011.07.13 19:52:00 - [57]
 

Originally by: Kunming
Originally by: Khamelean
Originally by: edith prickley
...


If your against MT of any sort, why are still playing a game that has supported MT for years?


Trying to cook the frog slowly eh?

The people who were overly vocal about the MT stuff were the same faces who protested heavily against GTC/ETC/PLEX (myself included; I still do) back few years ago. CCP thinks PLEX isnt breaking their game, but infact PLEX + LVL4 Missions, broke EVE beyond repair. Why is no one mining, why is 0.0 empty (compared to empire), low sec fubar, FW broken, there is no point in mining, there is no point in anything anymore, cause if u want pvp u go buy a plex and join up folks that do the same. Everyone I know either won some sort of lottery or convert PLEX to ISK, only a few (really few like 4-5) players I know get their ISK with various passive incomes and even that is mostly cause of multiple alts financed with PLEX.

The immersion in EVE is gone, the virtual reality is disrupted by the influx of RL currency. Ppl dont fight to get rich, powerful or anything its all about the lulz, KB, e-peen.. And this is just what PLEX did to the game, now think about non-vanity MT.

PLEX destroyed alot of fun and immersion in EVE but it is not gamebreaking enough, and most came to live with the fact that you cant beat your opponent and financial rivalary is non existant anymore, as its not crucial for existance at all. The players dont play for the same motives anymore as they did back 5 years ago.

Why am I still here if I dont like what CCP made out of the game? Simple, its the only MMO with spaceship theme that doesnt utterly suck... yet! This wont stay like this forever (and around 2007-8 I actually had the impression I would play this game until I die out of old age), competition is on the horizon.

Oh and about MT, if I wanted to play a game with MT, it would definetly be one that revolves around PVP ONLY and EXCLUSIVELY and has no player driven economy.. or maybe I already do.



Well, its broken by two sides actually. The Macros bots who rule the minerals and materials side of EVE its the second broken pillar that with time makes you wonder why you play. Even the economic doc know it. ISK its created in missions. Materials are created in mining and POS. Both basic pilars are broken.

Leeroy McJenkins
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.07.13 19:54:00 - [58]
 

Originally by: Cashcow Golden Goose

They're not my voice. This is my voice.
The CSM were not summoned to Iceland to find out what CCP could fix. CCP did not change their position on any matters after that visit. The CSM was summoned to placate the forums with additional platitudes and truthlessness. It worked.

The CSM were not summoned to Iceland to be the voice of the customers, the customers were already using their voices long before the CSM were summoned.

They will never be my voice, not while I have a voice, legs and arms. CCP's newcastle office is less than 15 minutes away from me, when I want them to hear me, they will hear me. Just like Royal Mail hear me when I want them to hear me, why TV licensing hear me when I want them to hear me, and every other private company that believes it can cross lines I have no intention of allowing them to cross with me.

The CSM is for weak individuals who need somebody else to speak for them, to speak to them in soft placating tones, a spoonful of sugar to help the medicine go down. To me they are but a cost I'm ok with paying because of the delicious entertainment they bring to the forum with their sense of entitlement, sense of empowerment and ultimate lapdog or poodle status with CCP. It's entertainment to watch them, it's entertainment to watch those that defend them and those that attack them.

When I get home from work, I get to play Eve as well. For 50 cents a day, it's damm good value for money product.


Because mob rule is always a better option than representative democracy. Rolling Eyes

Call me when we start lynching minorities and immigrants. Wink

Jonathan Ferguson
JC Ferguson and Son Ltd
Ferguson Alliance
Posted - 2011.07.13 19:55:00 - [59]
 

Originally by: LordOfDespair
Originally by: MaiLina KaTar

Cut the bull****, Akita. Seriously.

You want a decent representation of player opinion? Well there's this thing called checkboxes. If you put them in a dialog coupled with a decent question and some sensible choices and put it in the game where it belongs you're gonna get a good ****ing representation of player opinion.

Don't give me this pseudo democratic bull****. I'm not stupid enough to buy into it. CSM doesn't represent jack**** but the interests of some of Eve's vocal nerds. If they'd be capable of accomplishing anything that actually makes a damn mark Eve wouldn't miss out on all the potential it does. And the fact that smart people like you buy into this **** is both sad and a testament to the admittedly high skill in CCP's PR department.


Amen.

Ya that pretty much nailed it (except the last sentence, which I don't concur with. Trolling/shilling != buying into & mediocrity != high skill.)

Leeroy McJenkins
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.07.13 20:10:00 - [60]
 

Originally by: MaiLina KaTar
Edited by: MaiLina KaTar on 13/07/2011 16:26:53
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Jonathan Ferguson
This CSM isn't looking out for 'the players,' doesn't know what's important to 'the players' and doesn't represent 'the players.'

Should have voted for candidates you would have liked more in the damned election and got your friends to vote of them too, shouldn't you ?
Oh, wait, you're NOT interested in ACTUALLY doing anything in a pre-emptive fashion and merely react to something when it's way past "late".
Twisted Evil

Quote:
Do you feel this CSM represents you and what's your top ten list? How hard would it be to find out what players want if CCP really wanted to know?

The CSM is certainly far more realistic in what can actually be done and what should be done than the entitled whiny reality-divorced bunch of people filling the forums with threads similar to this one.

Cut the bull****, Akita. Seriously.

You want a decent representation of player opinion? Well there's this thing called checkboxes. If you put them in a dialog coupled with a decent question and some sensible choices and put it in the game where it belongs you're gonna get a good ****ing representation of player opinion.

Don't give me this pseudo democratic bull****. I'm not stupid enough to buy into it. CSM doesn't represent jack**** but the interests of some of Eve's vocal nerds. If they'd be capable of accomlishing anything that actually makes a damn mark Eve wouldn't miss out on all the potential it does. And the fact that smart people like you buy into this **** is both sad and a testament to the admittedly high skill in CCP's PR department.



Well there's a few issues with your suggestion as well. Who decides the questions to be asked? Who decides what goes in the checkboxes? Maybe you want preliminary checkboxes to decide what goes in the final checkboxes? Its very easy to suggest mass polling as a solution but the devil is really in the details isn't it?

And who is seriously going to take time out of their day to sit back and read through all of CCPs pop up questions and checkboxes. What's more likely is that they will give you the option to skip till later and most people will end up not filling them out anyway. Just like most players did not bother to actually vote in the CSM elections. You run into the same wall of apathy. Except only this time it ends up eve worst because you don't even have representatives for CCP to call. You just have checkboxes that are so annoying people never fill them.

Think about it, how many large electorates go out to the ballots on a regular basis. You are lucky to get them to turn out and checkboxes every couple of years. Direct democracy is not a very efficient way to make decisions for a large group of people because most people don't have the time/caring to be that involved on a regular basis.

P.S. Anyone who cites California's ballot initiatives as a working form of direct democracy needs a reality check on what it has actually done to the state's finances.


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