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Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
Posted - 2011.07.17 06:18:00 - [121]
 

I'm no fan of the CSM. But as I voted, I feel I can venture an opinion.

The CSM started as nothing more than a marketing gimmick to distract people from some real bad things that were going on at CCP at the time.

But they do now seem to take their job seriously. They are advocates for a good portion of this splintered, narrow minded and selfish player base. I would hate to be in their position, to be honest. They can't win with you lot and their frustration is starting to show. Their are as many opinionated ideas of how CCP should run their business as there are posters on this forum.

You've managed to alienate CCP and now you are dangerously close to doing the same for the people that dropped everything and went to bat for you far from their homes and livelihoods.

You people have no respect for anything and yet want to be taken seriously.

Give me a break.

Mr Epeen Cool

OHU812
Posted - 2011.07.17 06:48:00 - [122]
 

I vote to abolish Epeen... oops I meant the CSM.

We all know it's nothing more then a PR stunt and CCP has clearly without hesitation told us through actions what direction they will take with THEIR game.

The only thing to do now is use the door they gave through Incarna and move along.

Tis what I'm doing. Very Happy No Mr Epeen, I will keep posting until my time runs out. Gotta get some use out of my sub since I'm not loggin in anymore.

Baden Luskan
Posted - 2011.07.17 07:52:00 - [123]
 

My whole favorite part of all this is, I know of atleast 3 CSMs who do not log in anymmore (or claim the game is so bad that they refuse to).

Now, I admit these 3 CSMs have either been evicted, or close to being evicted soon, but if a person voted to represent me decides the game is no longer fun because he was on a losing side of a sov battle, then how can he properly represent myself and the others who do PLAY. Hell, I'll go one step further and say that it seems to me these 3 people wanted to get on the CSM board for the free trip to Iceland and to make sure their own personal/corp/alliance agendas are represented.

Cry Nova
Posted - 2011.07.17 08:45:00 - [124]
 

It's funny how people admit to not voting in the CSM elections and now wish to uphold a "vote" of no confidence. Stop being lazy and vote in the CSM elections. If you don't want Goons in office, then conspire with your corp and alliance and put your own people in office if you think you can do a better job.

a newbie
d o o m
Posted - 2011.07.17 09:00:00 - [125]
 

Originally by: Captain's Courageous
Edited by: Captain''s Courageous on 13/07/2011 03:37:20
Recently, the CSM has, in a publicized article, implied that the gamers who quit in protest over the recent micro-transactions controversy were as irrelevant as the Tea Party. First, that's insulting and degrading to gamers who have spent years paying for the privilege of playing EVE, and second, the implication is wrong. Over 1/4th of Americans identify themselves with the Tea Party, and the Tea Party have currently usurped the issue positions of the GOP. I believe that this level of unprofessionalism and ignorance speaks volumes about the integrity of the CSM, and must therefore request that a motion for a vote of no confidence be filed.

Signed,

Matthew L.

Original quote: "They are always going to be there. It is not relevant on any level, in any democratic process what the lunatic fringe thinks. Just look at, in America, the Tea Party, the John Birch Society, or what have you. Any of these isolated movements, on the fringes, they are very loud, but they donít actually impact sh*t. So, thatís pretty much my view of that.Ē

- http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/14/feature/5382/page/2

Edit: I am not supporting or defending the Tea Party. I am objecting to the CSM's statement of comparison.



ROFL Could your obvious love for episode 1 be any clearer? No ones heard the phrase "Vote of no Confidence" outside of limited exposure and then it shows up in that debauchery of a sequel and you use it here?

I hope you at least take the time to talk to CSMs directly before coming to this pile of political waste injection into a game topic ROFL.


Seven Duce
Posted - 2011.07.17 09:39:00 - [126]
 

Edited by: Seven Duce on 17/07/2011 09:39:49
Originally by: Khamelean
ooh ooh, shall we play "Antagonise the fringe lunatics" or "Marginalise the whiny babies"?

So many ways to play. That's why I love eve :)



You are paying to play an obscure internet spaceship game..

Welcome to the margins of the lunatic fringe, baby..

Also, why am I not surprised that goon leadership are libtard obamadrones?

Jonathan Ferguson
JC Ferguson and Son Ltd
Ferguson Alliance
Posted - 2011.07.17 22:15:00 - [127]
 

Over on scrapheap, CSM admit to lying in the summit devblog when they said this:

"Game-affecting Virtual Goods: We are convinced that CCP has no plans to introduce any game-affecting virtual goods, only pure vanity items such as clothing and ship skins."

They now concede that it was a lie when they said it, but they can't disclose more under NDA.

Even Trebor is nothing more than a CCP shill at this point. The whole lot of them need to either resign or come out openly as being nothing more than a marketing arm of CCP.

There's a great post by Malcanis about fried chicken and watermelon, but you'll have to find it for yourself.

Lyrrashae
Minmatar
Crushed Ambitions
Posted - 2011.07.18 08:20:00 - [128]
 

Originally by: Seven Duce


Also, why am I not surprised that goon leadership are libtard obamadrones?


Why am I not surprised that some ignoramus' bull**** ret4rded right-wing American politics keeps polluting this thread...Rolling Eyes Keep it out of here, troll, there are many, many other fora on which you can spew that cliche'd rubbish.

Obama is not a liberal, even by Ami "standards," by the way.

WisdomLikeSilence
The Cursed Navy
Important Internet Spaceship League
Posted - 2011.07.18 08:43:00 - [129]
 

+1 vote of no confidence in trolling forum *****s.

Jadecougar
Posted - 2011.07.18 09:25:00 - [130]
 

Originally by: Jonathan Ferguson
Speaking of CSM, I remember how big a deal dunderheads like Jayne and Jade (okay, mostly Jade) made out of the whole 'stakeholder' status horse****. Ooooh, they're STAKEHOLDERS now! Hurray!


Jon, you're such a tool. lol! Rolling Eyes

Stakeholder status, in its truest form, means a lot. If the process would be improving with each CSM and followed up by actions, we wouldn't be having these discussions. But the misconception of the term and what people expect from the CSM as a result leads to what we have today and CSM6 being a major disappointment (as a whole). Right now, I feel shafted by the group as a whole as Mittens and co. have brought nothing but more politics into an arena that had too much of it already.

So in some strange sense of the word, I seem to (partly) agree with the village idiot. Rolling Eyes

However, I think there are more accomplishments that aren't being recognized that I don't even need to say here.

Oh, and doing away with CSM? Are you mad??

A direct contact with players the way you want will not be achievable just as it isn't in your government. It's far from perfect as we are seeing with CSM 6
but the people DID vote. It's the fault of the other over 70% of players that didn't vote why things are the way they are.

PR is PR and so what if the CSM is partly a PR thing. They are still bringing issues to the table. Whether they are the issues of the GAME as a whole versus issues from the voters that voted for you only is another question. Don't knock the process, knock the people in the process being ineffective.

Oh, and I do miss these little 'chats' ever so much. Count on ol' Jonny boy to continue ranting about things he knows or could do better than anyone else can. Rolling Eyes

Signal11th
Posted - 2011.07.18 15:56:00 - [131]
 

Originally by: Jadecougar
Originally by: Jonathan Ferguson


A direct contact with players the way you want will not be achievable just as it isn't in your government. It's far from perfect as we are seeing with CSM 6
but the people DID vote. It's the fault of the other over 70% of players that didn't vote why things are the way they are.

Rolling Eyes


To be honest if 70% of the playerbase don't vote then the CSM shouldn't exist, You have a minority of the playerbase voting in candiates to make or propose changes that affects all of the playerbase.
Personally I can't stand the idea of the CSM, it's toothless,self-serving and in your own words doesn't have the backing of the majority of the subscribed players.
Reminds me of the s hitty little shop-stewards of the 70's, didn't answer to the majority of people but still caused untold disruption to businesses just because they existed and were backed by the minority of people working at the site.

Jadecougar
Posted - 2011.07.18 18:37:00 - [132]
 

Good point. Although it sounds like the US elections as well doesn't it?

People have a right and a privilege to vote and many choose not to, for whatever reason. Those that do vote...care (or cared?) a great deal. I think there are those that want to believe the CSM represents the players' best interests. I felt CSM5 did a pretty good job in getting their hands dirty and down with the players to address certain issues. We can argue whether that was "successful" but the current "Mittens speaks from the throne" approach is certainly not better!

Unfortunately politics are politics and they creep in from a very early stage and only intensify when dealing with CCP in a formal process, surely. I hear what you're saying. Trouble is, to what degree should/could we expect a voluntary group to influence a corporation with its own strategy and doesn't seem too willing to be open to change??

raker
Posted - 2011.07.18 18:51:00 - [133]
 

Edited by: raker on 18/07/2011 18:56:16
Edited by: raker on 18/07/2011 18:51:41
Originally by: Cry Nova
It's funny how people admit to not voting in the CSM elections and now wish to uphold a "vote" of no confidence.


I didnt vote for any CSM and feel the quote above makes a good point

I will however vote for the next one if they are still here

Having a playerbase group that can speak for the playerbase to the Devs is a good idea, I was in constant touch with Devs in another game and it worked well

Maybe the problem is that CCP don't allow the CSM's to voice the work that they do and this undermines them

Or the CSM's have thier own agenda and dont have the views of the playerbase as thier first concearn

But we do need a voice


Milla Lekarariba
Minmatar
Capsuleer Profit Sharing Enterprise
Posted - 2011.07.18 23:40:00 - [134]
 

Originally by: I Love Boobies
Total non-issue and you're going to be laughed at because you're bringing politics into the game, so don't get upset if you get trolled quite a bit, especially over a quote like this.

Elder Man
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2011.07.18 23:45:00 - [135]
 

Originally by: Captain's Courageous
Edited by: Captain''s Courageous on 13/07/2011 03:37:20
Recently, the CSM has, in a publicized article, implied that the gamers who quit in protest over the recent micro-transactions controversy were as irrelevant as the Tea Party. First, that's insulting and degrading to gamers who have spent years paying for the privilege of playing EVE, and second, the implication is wrong. Over 1/4th of Americans identify themselves with the Tea Party, and the Tea Party have currently usurped the issue positions of the GOP. I believe that this level of unprofessionalism and ignorance speaks volumes about the integrity of the CSM, and must therefore request that a motion for a vote of no confidence be filed.

Signed,

Matthew L.

Original quote: "They are always going to be there. It is not relevant on any level, in any democratic process what the lunatic fringe thinks. Just look at, in America, the Tea Party, the John Birch Society, or what have you. Any of these isolated movements, on the fringes, they are very loud, but they donít actually impact sh*t. So, thatís pretty much my view of that.Ē

- http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/14/feature/5382/page/2

Edit: I am not supporting or defending the Tea Party. I am objecting to the CSM's statement of comparison.



This is got to be the most ignorant post I've seen in a long time.

sacredchord
NON PROPERO
Posted - 2011.07.19 00:07:00 - [136]
 

Right,

I'm going to bite my tongue on a lot of this.

Yes, it was probably a mistake for the CSM to say something like that. Not because of the truth or falsehood of the individual statement, but because of the impact it has on CCP's reasoning when it comes to dissatisfaction of its player base. It doesn't mean the the CSM is inadequate, it was just probably not the best time to give that piece of advice.

AkJon Ferguson
JC Ferguson and Son Ltd
Ferguson Alliance
Posted - 2011.07.19 19:59:00 - [137]
 

The CSM also lied when they said this:

"The Fearless "Greed is Good?" Leak: We accept CCP's position that Fearless is a deliberately controversial internal publication and does not represent the policy of CCP Management or of CCP Zulu, the Senior Producer of EVE Online, nor the direction of game design."

Since they rarely post here and congregate in places like failheap, if you want to give them a piece of your mind, I suggest you do it there.

AkJon Ferguson
JC Ferguson and Son Ltd
Ferguson Alliance
Posted - 2011.07.23 02:21:00 - [138]
 

I haven't seen this bit from the minutes mentioned either:

"CCP began by announcing a formal organizational change that has been made within CCP. The CSM project has been moved out of the Research and Statistics department and is now alongside Customer Support, Community Management and The Volunteer Division - since all these communicate directly with customers it makes perfect sense to have them all under the same person for maximum synergy. Ivar, the current director of Customer Support is this person. Ivar is a co-founder to CCP, a former CEO of CCP, former CFO and has basically served any and all roles imaginable within CCP."

If the CSM is 'under' a person at CCP, do they represent the players?

If the CSM is a vehicle to communicate directly with customers while maximizing synergy with the dev alts, the community managers and the rest of the smoke-blowers, can any of them (even the few who don't appear to be asshats at first glance) be expected to represent the players to any meaningful degree?

What's this Ivar character like, anyway? Is he the MT Koolaid brewing bean-counter in chief?

Nimrod Nemesis
Amarr
Royal Amarr Institute
Posted - 2011.07.23 02:24:00 - [139]
 

AkJon you've got to be the newly appointed leader of the prolific bitter-posters.

Where can I subscribe to your newsletter? I would also like to know if I can have your stuff.

Uuali
Posted - 2011.07.23 02:54:00 - [140]
 

I'll vote no confidence because the Mittani and the CSM don't speak for me in this game nor for my political leanings which are at odds with the Mittani.

I'll also vote no confidence because the Mittani doesn't deserve the celebritydom he's getting from this either.

All these EVE celebrity putzes (you know who you/they are) can kiss my butt!

Skunk Gracklaw
Caldari
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.07.23 04:11:00 - [141]
 

Originally by: Uuali
I'll vote no confidence because the Mittani and the CSM don't speak for me in this game nor for my political leanings which are at odds with the Mittani.

I'll also vote no confidence because the Mittani doesn't deserve the celebritydom he's getting from this either.

All these EVE celebrity putzes (you know who you/they are) can kiss my butt!


Look at dis pubbie rage...

Coffe's Babe
Caldari
Posted - 2011.07.23 04:47:00 - [142]
 

What's going on here? Can someone rate this thread so I can decide whether i should waste my time on it or not?

Woodman2
Posted - 2011.07.23 05:02:00 - [143]
 

Originally by: Captain's Courageous
Edited by: Captain''s Courageous on 13/07/2011 03:37:20
Recently, the CSM has, in a publicized article, implied that the gamers who quit in protest over the recent micro-transactions controversy were as irrelevant as the Tea Party. First, that's insulting and degrading to gamers who have spent years paying for the privilege of playing EVE, and second, the implication is wrong. Over 1/4th of Americans identify themselves with the Tea Party, and the Tea Party have currently usurped the issue positions of the GOP. I believe that this level of unprofessionalism and ignorance speaks volumes about the integrity of the CSM, and must therefore request that a motion for a vote of no confidence be filed.

Signed,

Matthew L.

Original quote: "They are always going to be there. It is not relevant on any level, in any democratic process what the lunatic fringe thinks. Just look at, in America, the Tea Party, the John Birch Society, or what have you. Any of these isolated movements, on the fringes, they are very loud, but they donít actually impact sh*t. So, thatís pretty much my view of that.Ē

- http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/14/feature/5382/page/2

Edit: I am not supporting or defending the Tea Party. I am objecting to the CSM's statement of comparison.


Really, 1/4 of Americans identify with tea baggers? You apparently get your misinformation from fox news. BTW, how's rupert and his phone hacking gang doing?

Elassar
Posted - 2011.07.23 05:55:00 - [144]
 

But carbon dioxide is harmless ...

Ladie Scarlet
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.07.23 06:37:00 - [145]
 

Originally by: Coffe's Babe
What's going on here? Can someone rate this thread so I can decide whether i should waste my time on it or not?

Bad thread full of people who don't understand the role of the CSM. You can safely skip it.

Resmand Fredricks
Posted - 2011.07.23 07:17:00 - [146]
 

A couple of things that I have noticed about this thread:

The Mitani does not play the game yet has a voice as the primary voice of players in the game? Wouldn't that be like a person getting elected President but not living in the country he is supposedly representing?

The political stuff actually in my opinion does have a place here as the CSM are "Elected officials" representing the playerbase. Is all of it important and relative to the situation probably not.

As for a "Vote of No Confidence" how do you vote out some one who is working for CCP. As being under a team member of CCP is in a sense working for the company and they recieve the benefits of free trips to Iceland to have these summits.

In my personal opinion the CSM does serve as simply a meat shield for CCP but every company has one.

I believe that someone had the right idea. The amount of power held by each person on the CSM should represent where they live in EVE space. There should be a restriction on how many people from each space have seats on the board and it should be directly tied to the amount of people that live (spend 60% or more time) in said space. People wishing to represent their chosen area of living (in space)should be voted on only by the people living in said space. Then CCP could make a ballot to represent each space. I know this idea requires a lot of additional coding and tweaking but could resolve the ultimate issue. Which is people not feeling like their voice is being heard.

As an example we will use Jack StPatrick. Jack lives in null sec over the past year he has been in null sec for 80 percent of his in game time. He wishes to run for a position on the CSM. He can only be voted for by other people who have lived in null sec for 60% of their game time. There are lets say 100,000 players that fall into this ability out of the 400,000 players in the game total if we split the seats up evenly you could have 4 or 8 seats. He at that time would be shooting for either 1 of only one seat or 1 of 2 seats. The area of space that has the most players in it would have the larger amount of players based on in game statistics.
This could and I emphasize COULD help out with the issue of not feeling like you are being heard. A way to get more people to vote is to give a pop up for one week in game before you can log all the way in that asks you to vote for one of the people in your living space once you vote the pop ups stop.

I know its not the most accurate but I hope this gives some ideas that could be used in the future.

I also know that some of you feel like the CSM does not actually have any power I would look to people that actually have power in the game to better define what powers the CSM actually has if any, or if they are just there to look pretty. In that case I am sure there are a few women that could fill the job much more effectively.

Sully Kajahazuum
Posted - 2011.07.23 07:55:00 - [147]
 

CSM only gets 10% of the players to participate in voting anyways. Right there is your vote of no-confidence. This, however, is just a giant waste of time.

Himnos Altar
Gallente
Daisy Cutter's
Posted - 2011.07.23 08:55:00 - [148]
 

wow.....why the hell do I even come on the forums?

I need to go bleach my brain.

but to the person/people calling for a party system with a *guaranteed* number of seats in each CSM (well, in the first place, the first person forgot WH space lol.....or are WHers to be lumped in with independents, then?).

Also....LOL

Rep/Dems aren't GUARANTEED spots. it's just that there's *usually* not a strong enough third party out there that spends enough money, etc, to take those seats away from the reps/dems.

With small exceptions like electing a pro wrestler as governor of MN, who literally climbed out his window so he could make his own budget.....(Jesse Ventura, for the 99.99999% who didn't know/don't really give a **** about this even now).

*knows that people will ignore this post, or just loudly complain about how stupid it is*

Yes, I am just a layman when it comes to politics. you caught me.Laughing I DON'T know fancy words or intricate political machinations. just a dude that forgot that wandering into forums of any kind generally leads to brain bleaching.

Rolling Eyes

Aeropride
Posted - 2011.07.23 09:48:00 - [149]
 

Originally by: Ramma Lamma DingDong
Edited by: Ramma Lamma DingDong on 13/07/2011 09:42:28
Educated, intelligent Americans (granted it may seem as if there are few of them) don't take the teabaggers seriously at all.

I mean come on, it's a party that supports people such as Michelle Bachman, a candidate who doesn't know the difference between John Wayne and John Gacy and who along with her husband runs a clinic that "converts" homosexuals.

She warned us all that The Lion King was "g a y" propoganda.
She claimed abolishing the minimum wage would create jobs.
She called Carbon Dioxide, "harmless."
She suggested that Melissa Ethridge, a well known lesbian artist "repent" after getting cancer.

Sadly, there is a portion of American society that buys a ticket to ride this crazy train but the majority are just watching and waiting for the inevitable crash. The Republicans bought a ticket early on and are currently trying to get off at the next stop after realizing the depth of the crazy (and believe me, it is deep.)



its hard to take people seriously who use a childish name like teabaggers to refer to the tea party but thats just me...got some video of those comments she made?

grunf Ijonen
Posted - 2011.07.24 11:15:00 - [150]
 

/signed

4 channel kids should not be allowed in the csm!


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