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blankseplocked Cripes, CCP, Titans are not "Balanced"
 
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Fon Revedhort
Monks of War
DarkSide.
Posted - 2011.07.13 00:53:00 - [31]
 

Edited by: Fon Revedhort on 13/07/2011 00:53:30

Ok, the Doomsday... And what actually makes you think that the bridge portal is balanced? Rolling Eyes

Pok Nibin
Amarr
Posted - 2011.07.13 01:22:00 - [32]
 

It would seem a Doomsday Device, by its nature and the laws of physics would also Doomsday the user. It should be a suicide device. Use it, you're gone too. Liken it to a nuclear grenade. Throw it then run just to make yourself feel better.

If the tech for DD makes it a standard, fire-able weapon, seems the tech wouldn't remain applicable solely to a particular weapon. Seems it would find its way to all weapons making others obsolete, ipso facto.

Just another example of the "I'm still playing in Daddy's garage" mentality of the thinkers in CCP's stable.


Tobias Sjodin
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2011.07.13 01:25:00 - [33]
 

Posting in a bitter goon-alt thread.

Fix Lag
Posted - 2011.07.13 01:28:00 - [34]
 

Originally by: Tobias Sjodin
Posting in a bitter goon-alt thread.


PL was never renowned for its posting ability...nor, apparently, its analytical skills. But you can keep telling yourself I'm a goon alt until you're blue in the face for all that it matters.

Sorry if balancing supercapital ships threatens your (as Goons put it) :elite pvp: reputation.

Pok Nibin
Amarr
Posted - 2011.07.13 01:32:00 - [35]
 

Hmmm....why do I get a feeling my post (above) will be entirely overlooked. I know! We can pretend the elephant isn't actually IN the room!


Fix Lag
Posted - 2011.07.13 01:37:00 - [36]
 

Originally by: Pok Nibin
Hmmm....why do I get a feeling my post (above) will be entirely overlooked. I know! We can pretend the elephant isn't actually IN the room!




It's because your idea to make it a suicide device is stupid. Neutral



Oh....wait, you're serious.

Taedrin
Gallente
Kushan Industrial
Posted - 2011.07.13 01:49:00 - [37]
 

As it was before the Doomsday nerfs, the problem isn't the Doomsday, nor is it the Titans. The real problem is the blob. You need to somehow prevent Titans from blobbing together.

One Titan, or even just two, is not that bad... it's when you have a whole lot of them together that they become a problem because they completely marginalize the roles of everyone not in a super.

ToolPhucker
Posted - 2011.07.13 02:16:00 - [38]
 

Umm... sig radius does matter... and an inty that is mwd'ing will get pwned cuz its absurd sig radius compared to health. On top of that its cost about 15-20m in topes just to fire the cannon once.

Grath Telkin
Amarr
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2011.07.13 02:23:00 - [39]
 

Edited by: Grath Telkin on 13/07/2011 02:27:37
This is amazing, this thread has no less than 14 posts with factually wrong information about either supers or titans in it, and that's discounting the OP entirely.


Also your target selection for DD's is way off and largely ******ed, and aside form suggesting there were EVER 200 PL dudes in a fleet thats not a moving day fleet with every alt in the alliance online, its the thing that ****es me off the most.

Price, are you serious?

The fact that you would think we'd ever select a target based on price shows exactly how much you know about 1) titans, 2) tacitcs 3) uses 4) and 5) fleet warfare in general.

EDIT: I'm going to help you so you can at least get things right next time.

DD targets are as follows

1) Command ships - Why?- Removal of fleet boosters to instantly drop the efhp of the enemy fleet, as well as remove all tackle bonuses they may have.

2) Logistics -Why?- If you need this explained you may not exactly be ready for fleet combat

3) Targets of Opportunity -Why?- The DD can actually miss, I know this is shocking to you but there are ways to dodge it so you want to make sure your target is properly tackled because its TEN MINUTES (somebody said 15, which is very very wrong) before you can try it again.

The other 13 posts by you and the rest of the people in here are just nonsense made up by people who've never flown them before, but its still funny to read so please do carry on.

ThrashPower
Gallente
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
Posted - 2011.07.13 02:26:00 - [40]
 

subcaps can already easily avoid doomsdays by warping off, if something should be nerfed in this scenario it should be warp bubbles as they are obviously too powerful and impossible to get out of

ToolPhucker
Posted - 2011.07.13 02:28:00 - [41]
 

Originally by: Grath Telkin
This is amazing, this thread has no less than 14 posts with factually wrong information about either supers or titans in it, and that's discounting the OP entirely.


Also your target selection for DD's is way off and largely ******ed, and aside form suggesting there were EVER 200 PL dudes in a fleet thats not a moving day fleet with every alt in the alliance online, its the thing that ****es me off the most.

Price, are you serious?

The fact that you would think we'd ever select a target based on price shows exactly how much you know about 1) titans, 2) tacitcs 3) uses 4) and 5) fleet warfare in general.

The other 13 posts by you and the rest of the people in here are just nonsense made up by people who've never flown them before, but its still funny to read so please do carry on.


I dont know if the price argument was against me but my statment was that the price of oblitarting a single target is significant, not that a titan pilot would care cuz at that point you have lulz money anyway. If 50 titans drop on the field a nuke 50 other players one side just fielded like 4t worth of ships and fired nearly 1 billion isk worth of stuff.

If anything for that kind of cost the damage should really be upped.

SilentSkills
Gallente
Tax Evaders Inc.
Posted - 2011.07.13 02:38:00 - [42]
 

quit crying, DD was an overpowered AOE a few years ago, if 10 of said 50 titans had AOEd the whole subcap fleet would be gone instead of a mere 50 targets....

Fix Lag
Posted - 2011.07.13 02:40:00 - [43]
 

Originally by: Grath Telkin
Edited by: Grath Telkin on 13/07/2011 02:27:37
This is amazing, this thread has no less than 14 posts with factually wrong information about either supers or titans in it, and that's discounting the OP entirely.


Also your target selection for DD's is way off and largely ******ed, and aside form suggesting there were EVER 200 PL dudes in a fleet thats not a moving day fleet with every alt in the alliance online, its the thing that ****es me off the most.

Price, are you serious?

The fact that you would think we'd ever select a target based on price shows exactly how much you know about 1) titans, 2) tacitcs 3) uses 4) and 5) fleet warfare in general.

EDIT: I'm going to help you so you can at least get things right next time.

DD targets are as follows

1) Command ships - Why?- Removal of fleet boosters to instantly drop the efhp of the enemy fleet, as well as remove all tackle bonuses they may have.

2) Logistics -Why?- If you need this explained you may not exactly be ready for fleet combat

3) Targets of Opportunity -Why?- The DD can actually miss, I know this is shocking to you but there are ways to dodge it so you want to make sure your target is properly tackled because its TEN MINUTES (somebody said 15, which is very very wrong) before you can try it again.

The other 13 posts by you and the rest of the people in here are just nonsense made up by people who've never flown them before, but its still funny to read so please do carry on.


Grath I didn't set this trap up to catch you in it

Seriously though remember you're reading the EVEO forums there's never anything good here

And just because it's not a bannable offense here: u mad

...you don't have admin privs on Kugu right?

Grath Telkin
Amarr
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2011.07.13 02:53:00 - [44]
 

Originally by: Fix Lag
Originally by: Grath Telkin

...you don't have admin privs on Kugu right?


Wouldn't infract you if i did brah, not into censorship.


Headerman
Minmatar
Quovis
Shadow of xXDEATHXx
Posted - 2011.07.13 03:01:00 - [45]
 

Edited by: Headerman on 13/07/2011 03:08:56
Personally i don't think it's the DD that is the problem, it's the amount of titans that is the issue.

For example an Aeon Vs an avatar 1 v 1 would be very close if the titan didn't have it's DD. I remember back in Test, we attacked a POS in IT space, 900 friendlies Vs 600 IT people. They had 6 or so titans that were slowly picking all the BSs off over the course of about 7 hours while we were banging away at a POS, and alpha'ing a carrier once in a while.

Instead, if we turned and attached the titans straight away, we would have thoroughly beaten them.

I guess it comes down to 'isk condensation'.

Just my opinion mind, i don't fly a titan at all. I imagine if this issue ever got to CCPs attention, they might change the fuel type for DD's to something that takes up a LOT of m3

Juliette DuBois
Posted - 2011.07.13 03:06:00 - [46]
 

Once SC get rebalanced those supercap alts move to titans. This is already happening because many of them ran out of useful trains for carrier and are "moving on". And yes titans will be used em masse against subcaps until there is a nerf on them too. Cool

Introducing these ships was a huge blunder on CCPs part.

Omara Otawan
Posted - 2011.07.13 03:25:00 - [47]
 

Originally by: Juliette DuBois

Introducing these ships was a huge blunder on CCPs part.


Not really, though not revisiting logoff timers when they buffed their EHP into the stratosphere was a grave oversight.

You could argue that EHP boost was overdone as well, but thats on another page.

The issue right now is the imbalance of huge production capabilities in game and the rather small amount of ships actually dying. Ideally the problem is addressed from both sides, slow down production of new units and at the same time ensure old units dying easier (yes, that means nerf EHP or change logoff mechanics as well as offer more incentive to actually fight over space).

Fon Revedhort
Monks of War
DarkSide.
Posted - 2011.07.13 08:46:00 - [48]
 

Originally by: Juliette DuBois
Introducing these ships was a huge blunder on CCPs part.

No doubt here.

I wonder whether anyone within CCP is interested in WW2 history. They really should learn more about Dora and how 'useful' it actually was.

Dora is exactly what superscarriers and titans are to be - that is extremely cumbersome, extremely expensive, slow-firing, very imprecise, utterly vulnerable vessels. That means no portal, very limited jump range, 1 shot per hour which can actually hit a thing only when its angular velocity equalls null, EHP of a freighter and surely no EW-invulnerability, including tackling. Also it is to be impossible to fit cloaks and moreover - each titan's location is clearly displayed at the starmap.


Signal11th
Posted - 2011.07.13 09:11:00 - [49]
 

Edited by: Signal11th on 13/07/2011 09:22:08
CBA

Estephania
Independent Political Analysts
Posted - 2011.07.13 09:30:00 - [50]
 

Edited by: Estephania on 13/07/2011 09:31:11
The game is already supercaps online if we are talking about sov and alliances. I doubt anyone at CCP thought that one day there will be 100 man fleets of supers and titans. Look at supers - immunity to EW, immunity to lag (fighter bombers don't feel any lag), craploads of HP. This makes subcaps obsolete. How can you counter those blobs? Yes, bring even more supers. That's why DRF BFF's are stomping on everything, there's no real way to counter a blob of 50+ supercaps.

XJennieX
Minmatar
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2011.07.13 10:04:00 - [51]
 

Originally by: Estephania
Edited by: Estephania on 13/07/2011 09:31:11
The game is already supercaps online if we are talking about sov and alliances. I doubt anyone at CCP thought that one day there will be 100 man fleets of supers and titans. Look at supers - immunity to EW, immunity to lag (fighter bombers don't feel any lag), craploads of HP. This makes subcaps obsolete. How can you counter those blobs? Yes, bring even more supers. That's why DRF BFF's are stomping on everything, there's no real way to counter a blob of 50+ supercaps.


actually DRF brought more like 200 supers for vale of silent last station timer in ZLZ...

Neamus
Posted - 2011.07.13 10:07:00 - [52]
 

Originally by: Estephania
Edited by: Estephania on 13/07/2011 09:31:11
The game is already supercaps online if we are talking about sov and alliances. I doubt anyone at CCP thought that one day there will be 100 man fleets of supers and titans. Look at supers - immunity to EW, immunity to lag (fighter bombers don't feel any lag), craploads of HP. This makes subcaps obsolete. How can you counter those blobs? Yes, bring even more supers. That's why DRF BFF's are stomping on everything, there's no real way to counter a blob of 50+ supercaps.


Pretty much this. Titans are a part of the problem, no doubt, but only really because of the numbers involved. I think the DD cool-down kind of balances them on an individual basis, perhaps it could do with some tweaking though. But anyway, as things stand all you have right now are a group of alienated sup-cap pilots, like me. I prefer not to fly a ship that I have to sacrifice one of my characters to, but the drawback of course is that its essentially pointless for me to live in 0.0. Which is a shame because before all these super-shenanigans started I actually quite enjoyed being out there.

What this situation really needs imo is the cap equivalent of a battleship. A ship that isn't as expensive as a titan or supercarrier, and that you don't loose your character to, but that IS effective (perhaps in small groups) at killing supercaps.
I honestly thought it made sense to give the dreadnought this role, but right now they essentially as pointless as subcaps, and still there is talk of MOAR caps being added to the game. Oh and somehow all this needs to be balanced so that subcaps are actually useful again too. I miss my nullsec roaming gang days Sad

Lu'Marat
Posted - 2011.07.13 10:23:00 - [53]
 

Edited by: Lu''Marat on 13/07/2011 10:24:52
1) Change logoff mechanics. If a pilot logs off, the ship stays indefinitely if it is shot at within five minutes or has been shot at in the past hour. If it is not shot at, usual logoff timers apply. Add something that allows non-dockable ships to be boarded only by authorized personell (unless broken into by DUST-troops, maybe?) so people can still log out without having their big ship float around as a free takeaway.

2) Change the DD so it can only fire at stationary or quasi-stationary objects, e.g. Titans, Supercaps, POSes, Outposts.

3) Change Titans and Supercaps so only one can be present in a 300km radius (i.e. beyond the 250km max target range) at full efficiency, each additional titan or supercap drops offensive abilities (damage, sensor strength, ...) at a sharp rate. They're huge ships, jamming together two or more at close range IS a bad idea.

Probably more. Never been a cap pilot myself. This just seems fairly obvious to me, particularly 1) and 2).

Tammarr
Posted - 2011.07.13 11:09:00 - [54]
 

as far as sc goes. Once we get timedialation: any number of sc will be countered by 10-12 pilots fielding a total of ~4-500m worth of ships.


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