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blankseplocked Dust 514's "cover charge" revealed {eurogamer}
 
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Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
Posted - 2011.07.11 18:23:00 - [61]
 

Looks like a fairly cheap entry fee to be honest and as for pay-to-compete .. I am fairly certain that I could spend a $1000 and still get beaten to a pulp by the twitch monkeys who inhabit FPS games these days.
Hopefully there will be significant tactical options that allow the brainier to defeat the young/fast.
Quote:
What, exactly, you'll be able to spend your virtual money on is yet to be decided.

CCP has already said that they are not sure how much (only that there will be some) of the Dust weaponry will be manufactured in space and sold through market to the ground troops.
Will probably start out with most stuff available through NPC orders only and gradually add BPOs to Eve for the heavier stuff (assuming sidearms, ammo and the like is BPC built by dirt-nappers).

In short: Nothing new in that article for those of us who have been keeping up with the sparse data released Smile

Khamelean
Posted - 2011.07.11 18:27:00 - [62]
 

Edited by: Khamelean on 11/07/2011 18:33:46
Edited by: Khamelean on 11/07/2011 18:31:52
Originally by: Mister Smithington
So, we have a $20 initial purchase needed to play the game and they give you $20 worth of Aur. Unless that $20 buys all the gear you need forever (and let's keep in mind that 20 bucks barely buys a skirt in the NeX) you have to pay again and again to remain competitive.

Isn't this the Double-billing Saint Turbefield warned against?


Everything in dust will be purchasable with isk (either directly or indirectly), much like eve, if you earn enough isk you can play for free. If you die a lot at some point you may have to shell out for some more clones and basic equipment. Much like eve your equipment goes bye bye when you die, in an fps you will die a lot. So if you run out of clones, equipment and isk, you can buy your way back in with cash.

Gear will bought with ISK, since you can buy isk with cash via plex, there is no more p2win than there is in eve.

I'm looking forward to funding my dust character with isk earned with my capsuleer :)

Bullyboutya
Minmatar
Taxxon Industrial Enterprises
Posted - 2011.07.11 18:32:00 - [63]
 

Originally by: Mister Smithington
Originally by: Tippia
Nah. It's the standard pay-to-play MT business model. What he warned against was trying to do the same to players who already pay a subscription fee.


It's the standard f2p/p2w model for PC MMOs (although most of those don't have a box cost). I don't think you can translate the model precisely over to consoles. The market is different and the expectations are different.


Subscription-based console games are usually met with resistance in my experience. Most console players expect a box cost and only a box cost. Maybe a few bucks every few months for optional DLC, and those are expected to be expansion worthy (Knights of the Nine for Oblivion, Zombie Island of Dr. Ned for Borderlands).

We'll see how the console crowd reacts when you tell them they have to continue to pay to be competitive in the game they just spent a cover charge on.



I'm console gamer(PS3) and PC gamer. The problem with the console why I switched back over to the PC is. All developers for consoles now ship games out 75% complete with the the other 25% being charged to you via DLC.

First off only dummies buy games this GEN. Gamefly have saved me soooooooooo much money it's not even funny. I use to play every single new game that came out thanks to gamefly. Then laughed at all the dummies who blew $60 on an incomplete game.

I would rather pay $10-20 instead of $60 for an incomplete game and day. CCP is smart in this aspect no disc version digital down load only. That cuts off Gamefly, and Gamestop :) so the smart consumer will look at Dust as a $10 or $20 buy brillant :)


Myfanwy Heimdal
Caldari
Posted - 2011.07.11 18:40:00 - [64]
 

Sorry, but to me it just looks like Quake with knobs on.

Then again I have never been one for consoles anyway being of a generation of those who struggled through "you are in a maze of twisty passages" - on teletype machines.

Khamelean
Posted - 2011.07.11 18:44:00 - [65]
 

Originally by: Myfanwy Heimdal
Sorry, but to me it just looks like Quake with knobs on.

Then again I have never been one for consoles anyway being of a generation of those who struggled through "you are in a maze of twisty passages" - on teletype machines.


Quake is awesome.
Knobs are awesome.

Sounds like a win/win to me :)

Mister Smithington
Posted - 2011.07.11 18:49:00 - [66]
 

Originally by: Khamelean
Edited by: Khamelean on 11/07/2011 18:33:46
Edited by: Khamelean on 11/07/2011 18:31:52
Originally by: Mister Smithington
So, we have a $20 initial purchase needed to play the game and they give you $20 worth of Aur. Unless that $20 buys all the gear you need forever (and let's keep in mind that 20 bucks barely buys a skirt in the NeX) you have to pay again and again to remain competitive.

Isn't this the Double-billing Saint Turbefield warned against?


Everything in dust will be purchasable with isk (either directly or indirectly), much like eve, if you earn enough isk you can play for free. If you die a lot at some point you may have to shell out for some more clones and basic equipment. Much like eve your equipment goes bye bye when you die, in an fps you will die a lot. So if you run out of clones, equipment and isk, you can buy your way back in with cash.

Gear will bought with ISK, since you can buy isk with cash via plex, there is no more p2win than there is in eve.

I'm looking forward to funding my dust character with isk earned with my capsuleer :)

I'm sure there will be a HUGE demand for Pilot's License EXtensions in Dust which has no subscription. Rolling Eyes

The dust 514 website clearly states that there will be items that will only be available for AUR. They have also said that the flowchart goes PS Wallet -> Aur -> Items. There is no plex, and no reason to engage in the player market.

Let me ask you this, if you had just shelled out 100 dollars for the god gun, why would you sell it?

Khamelean
Posted - 2011.07.11 18:56:00 - [67]
 

Originally by: Mister Smithington

I'm sure there will be a HUGE demand for Pilot's License EXtensions in Dust which has no subscription. Rolling Eyes

The dust 514 website clearly states that there will be items that will only be available for AUR. They have also said that the flowchart goes PS Wallet -> Aur -> Items. There is no plex, and no reason to engage in the player market.

Let me ask you this, if you had just shelled out 100 dollars for the god gun, why would you sell it?


Dust players can't sell them to eve players?

Quote:
ISK earned in battle can be spent on the primary market to stock up on the latest items weapons, turrets, equipment, armor, and modules or search for bargains on the secondary player-driven market. Customize existing gear or purchase advanced and prototype weaponry and equipment for that extra edge on the battlefield.

Linkage

Even if there is gear only purchasable for aurum, aurum can be bought with isk.

If I had just shelled out $100 on the market, I would glad;y sell it on the market, if i could combine the money i made from the sale with my current wallet to buy a $150 gun.

Khira Kitamatsu
Posted - 2011.07.11 18:56:00 - [68]
 

OK let me get this straight. Dust players play for free, except the cost of the subscription to PSN? However, they can by upgrades, vehicles, extra troops and other P2W items on their version of NEX.

Now let me also get this straight. EVE players can contract Dust players using Aurum? Aurum is the money used by Dust players to buy their whatever P2W items?

EVE players contract Dust players to take and hold planets?

So how is this not game breaking?

If EVE players bank roll Dust players using real money, converting it to Plex, then to Aurum, then contract Dust players to take and hold planets. Dust players then can take the Aurum from the contracts then use the Aurum to buy P2W items.

How is that not game breaking?

Am I wrong or is this essentially how this will work?


Stella SGP
The Kimotoro Initiative
Posted - 2011.07.11 19:00:00 - [69]
 

Originally by: Soi Mala
Originally by: Cloora
Originally by: Mister Smithington
So, we have a $20 initial purchase needed to play the game and they give you $20 worth of Aur. Unless that $20 buys all the gear you need forever (and let's keep in mind that 20 bucks barely buys a skirt in the NeX) you have to pay again and again to remain competitive.

Isn't this the Double-billing Saint Turbefield warned against?


Are you paying a subscription fee for Dust? No. That is the F2P model. Some of you must have never played them. I bought DDO and LOTRO when they were sub based games and then they went F2P. Stop complaining and realize CCP ain't a charity they are a business. They HAVE to make money. There is no other reason for a company to exist. But most if you are too immature to have the experiance of running a successful business. Or you just don't get it.



Eve became profitable at 50k subs. So, having around tripled that number now, they don't HAVE to milk every player for all they're worth. Just sayin.




Based on that logic, Blizzard should be giving away WoW, Diablo II and Starcraft 2 by now. They already made enough and don't have to milk every single player for all they got. Just saying . . .

Mister Smithington
Posted - 2011.07.11 19:04:00 - [70]
 

Originally by: Khira Kitamatsu
OK let me get this straight. Dust players play for free, except the cost of the subscription to PSN? However, they can by upgrades, vehicles, extra troops and other P2W items on their version of NEX.

Now let me also get this straight. EVE players can contract Dust players using Aurum? Aurum is the money used by Dust players to buy their whatever P2W items?

EVE players contract Dust players to take and hold planets?

So how is this not game breaking?

If EVE players bank roll Dust players using real money, converting it to Plex, then to Aurum, then contract Dust players to take and hold planets. Dust players then can take the Aurum from the contracts then use the Aurum to buy P2W items.

How is that not game breaking?

Am I wrong or is this essentially how this will work?



Yeah, you've basically got it.

We've known this since the dust annouoncement at E3, and to be honest, I don't know why there isn't more rage about it.

Kathryn Railly
Posted - 2011.07.11 19:07:00 - [71]
 

Dust becomes more fail with every bit of information I read about it. It truly is like watching a slow motion train wreck as CCP bumbles about these last couple of years. Good think I already gave up on them, all my accounts are canceled and now I'm just around for the lulz as I watch them plunge over the cliff.

Khamelean
Posted - 2011.07.11 19:07:00 - [72]
 

Edited by: Khamelean on 11/07/2011 19:08:40
Originally by: Khira Kitamatsu
OK let me get this straight. Dust players play for free, except the cost of the subscription to PSN? However, they can by upgrades, vehicles, extra troops and other P2W items on their version of NEX.

Now let me also get this straight. EVE players can contract Dust players using Aurum? Aurum is the money used by Dust players to buy their whatever P2W items?

EVE players contract Dust players to take and hold planets?

So how is this not game breaking?

If EVE players bank roll Dust players using real money, converting it to Plex, then to Aurum, then contract Dust players to take and hold planets. Dust players then can take the Aurum from the contracts then use the Aurum to buy P2W items.

How is that not game breaking?

Am I wrong or is this essentially how this will work?




There is no subscription fee to the PSN, it's free.
EVE players can contract Dust players using ISK.
The primary currency in dust will be ISK.

Further reading:
Dust: About
Beginnings dev blog

Khira Kitamatsu
Posted - 2011.07.11 19:09:00 - [73]
 

Originally by: Khamelean
Originally by: Khira Kitamatsu
OK let me get this straight. Dust players play for free, except the cost of the subscription to PSN? However, they can by upgrades, vehicles, extra troops and other P2W items on their version of NEX.

Now let me also get this straight. EVE players can contract Dust players using Aurum? Aurum is the money used by Dust players to buy their whatever P2W items?

EVE players contract Dust players to take and hold planets?

So how is this not game breaking?

If EVE players bank roll Dust players using real money, converting it to Plex, then to Aurum, then contract Dust players to take and hold planets. Dust players then can take the Aurum from the contracts then use the Aurum to buy P2W items.

How is that not game breaking?

Am I wrong or is this essentially how this will work?




There is no subscription fee to the PSN, it's free.
EVE players can contract Dust players using ISK.
The primary currency in dust will be ISK.


OK, but will Dust players have access to P2W items on their NEX store?

Khamelean
Posted - 2011.07.11 19:10:00 - [74]
 

Originally by: Khira Kitamatsu

OK, but will Dust players have access to P2W items on their NEX store?


There will be exactly the same amount of P2W in dust as we have in eve right now.

Mister Smithington
Posted - 2011.07.11 19:10:00 - [75]
 

Originally by: Khamelean


Quote:
ISK earned in battle can be spent on the primary market to stock up on the latest items weapons, turrets, equipment, armor, and modules or search for bargains on the secondary player-driven market. Customize existing gear or purchase advanced and prototype weaponry and equipment for that extra edge on the battlefield.

Linkage

Even if there is gear only purchasable for aurum, aurum can be bought with isk.

If I had just shelled out $100 on the market, I would glad;y sell it on the market, if i could combine the money i made from the sale with my current wallet to buy a $150 gun.


Show me a quote where it says aurum can be bought directly with isk. Currently Aurum is not transferable. Only the things Aurum can buy are transferable. So, again, explain to me why I should sell you my god gun instead of just owning you repeatedly with it.

Khamelean
Posted - 2011.07.11 19:17:00 - [76]
 

Originally by: Mister Smithington


Show me a quote where it says aurum can be bought directly with isk. Currently Aurum is not transferable. Only the things Aurum can buy are transferable. So, again, explain to me why I should sell you my god gun instead of just owning you repeatedly with it.


My apologies, it doesn't see that anywhere i can see. It was an assumption based on the model for aurum in eve.

Now could you point out to me there part where it says with aurum you can buy "god guns" capable of owning everyone repeatedly?

Faith Clothos
Posted - 2011.07.11 19:18:00 - [77]
 

Khamelean is a CCP dev alt, Zyrfindel's, I think.

As for the rest, I don't think anyone is complaining about Dust's model, but rather pointing out how ******ed it is.

Even quality games given away for actually free, that were free to play (Metal Gear Online) have tournament support, etc, have trouble monetizing microtransactions.

A generic, bland, FOTM Unreal engine microtransaction game with a cover charge as big as you can spend on buying better games, with single player and actually populated multiplayer environments?

I laugh.

As a Ps3 owner, I can say that the more that is known about Dust, the less interested I am in it.

Euphemisms like "free with virtual currency purchase" insult the customer and don't help.

But hey, its gonna be a great way to pick up AUR/ISK for cheap when it hits the bargain bin.

Khamelean
Posted - 2011.07.11 19:26:00 - [78]
 

Originally by: Faith Clothos
Khamelean is a CCP dev alt, Zyrfindel's, I think.

As for the rest, I don't think anyone is complaining about Dust's model, but rather pointing out how ******ed it is.

Even quality games given away for actually free, that were free to play (Metal Gear Online) have tournament support, etc, have trouble monetizing microtransactions.

A generic, bland, FOTM Unreal engine microtransaction game with a cover charge as big as you can spend on buying better games, with single player and actually populated multiplayer environments?

I laugh.

As a Ps3 owner, I can say that the more that is known about Dust, the less interested I am in it.

Euphemisms like "free with virtual currency purchase" insult the customer and don't help.

But hey, its gonna be a great way to pick up AUR/ISK for cheap when it hits the bargain bin.


Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.
Linkage

Nybbas
Guiding Hand Social Club
Dystopia Alliance
Posted - 2011.07.11 19:45:00 - [79]
 

Originally by: Faith Clothos
Khamelean is a CCP dev alt, Zyrfindel's, I think.

As for the rest, I don't think anyone is complaining about Dust's model, but rather pointing out how ******ed it is.

Even quality games given away for actually free, that were free to play (Metal Gear Online) have tournament support, etc, have trouble monetizing microtransactions.

A generic, bland, FOTM Unreal engine microtransaction game with a cover charge as big as you can spend on buying better games, with single player and actually populated multiplayer environments?

I laugh.

As a Ps3 owner, I can say that the more that is known about Dust, the less interested I am in it.

Euphemisms like "free with virtual currency purchase" insult the customer and don't help.

But hey, its gonna be a great way to pick up AUR/ISK for cheap when it hits the bargain bin.



The stupid... it's killing my brain. Please stop posting, you and all the other morons who don't have a clue. Why is it always the stupid people who post the most, and the loudest? WHYYYY?

Narfi Gromblga
Posted - 2011.07.11 19:47:00 - [80]
 

Originally by: Bullyboutya
Originally by: Mister Smithington
Originally by: Tippia
Nah. It's the standard pay-to-play MT business model. What he warned against was trying to do the same to players who already pay a subscription fee.


It's the standard f2p/p2w model for PC MMOs (although most of those don't have a box cost). I don't think you can translate the model precisely over to consoles. The market is different and the expectations are different.


Subscription-based console games are usually met with resistance in my experience. Most console players expect a box cost and only a box cost. Maybe a few bucks every few months for optional DLC, and those are expected to be expansion worthy (Knights of the Nine for Oblivion, Zombie Island of Dr. Ned for Borderlands).

We'll see how the console crowd reacts when you tell them they have to continue to pay to be competitive in the game they just spent a cover charge on.



I'm console gamer(PS3) and PC gamer. The problem with the console why I switched back over to the PC is. All developers for consoles now ship games out 75% complete with the the other 25% being charged to you via DLC.

First off only dummies buy games this GEN. Gamefly have saved me soooooooooo much money it's not even funny. I use to play every single new game that came out thanks to gamefly. Then laughed at all the dummies who blew $60 on an incomplete game.

I would rather pay $10-20 instead of $60 for an incomplete game and day. CCP is smart in this aspect no disc version digital down load only. That cuts off Gamefly, and Gamestop :) so the smart consumer will look at Dust as a $10 or $20 buy brillant :)




NO, NO YOU FOOL, CCP are evil corporate pimps, whoring us out for every penny they can, jump on the bandwagon! CCP does not deserve to make money, HOW DARE THEY release this game at 10-20 dollars, my mom only gives me 5 bucks a week allowance! ITS GOING TO TAKE WEEKS TO SAVE THAT MONEY! ARGH!

/rage

Faith Clothos
Posted - 2011.07.11 19:56:00 - [81]
 

Originally by: Nybbas
Originally by: Faith Clothos
Khamelean is a CCP dev alt, Zyrfindel's, I think.

As for the rest, I don't think anyone is complaining about Dust's model, but rather pointing out how ******ed it is.

Even quality games given away for actually free, that were free to play (Metal Gear Online) have tournament support, etc, have trouble monetizing microtransactions.

A generic, bland, FOTM Unreal engine microtransaction game with a cover charge as big as you can spend on buying better games, with single player and actually populated multiplayer environments?

I laugh.

As a Ps3 owner, I can say that the more that is known about Dust, the less interested I am in it.

Euphemisms like "free with virtual currency purchase" insult the customer and don't help.

But hey, its gonna be a great way to pick up AUR/ISK for cheap when it hits the bargain bin.



The stupid... it's killing my brain. Please stop posting, you and all the other morons who don't have a clue. Why is it always the stupid people who post the most, and the loudest? WHYYYY?


In actuality what has been stated applies more directly to the former poster than to myself.

Cloora
APEX Unlimited
APEX Conglomerate
Posted - 2011.07.11 20:19:00 - [82]
 

Originally by: Mister Smithington
Your rage is delicious.

I'm well aware CCP is a company. I'm well aware they're here to make money. Although having seen some of their recent business decisions I have to wonder if CCP is aware of that.

I wonder how many superlasers the MT dusters are going to buy when there are no "freeloading spectators" to shoot it at.


Your meme is incorrect. Your tears are delicious, not rage...

Anyways, you may be aware but you don't seem to understand how it all works.

Cave Lord
Posted - 2011.07.11 20:19:00 - [83]
 

I think "FireMonkey" sums it up rather nicely in the comments in the link:

"Let me get this straight. It's a 'free' game which you have to pay $10-$20 to play and that money gets converted into an in-game currency with which they still haven't decided what you can spend it on?

I think I'll pass."


Let's be honest here, unsubscribe before your friends and workmates find out about the tom-foolery and think you're an idiot.

r0selan
Kasar Infinae
Posted - 2011.07.11 20:34:00 - [84]
 

who said CCP couldn't innovate? they just invented the paying F2P !

Mister Smithington
Posted - 2011.07.11 21:23:00 - [85]
 

Edited by: Mister Smithington on 11/07/2011 21:28:43
Edited by: Mister Smithington on 11/07/2011 21:28:11
Originally by: Cloora
Originally by: Mister Smithington
Your rage is delicious.

I'm well aware CCP is a company. I'm well aware they're here to make money. Although having seen some of their recent business decisions I have to wonder if CCP is aware of that.

I wonder how many superlasers the MT dusters are going to buy when there are no "freeloading spectators" to shoot it at.


Your meme is incorrect. Your tears are delicious, not rage...

Anyways, you may be aware but you don't seem to understand how it all works.

I think if you check my post history you will never see me accuse CCP of "money grubbing" or being unscrupulous greedy bastards or anything of the sort. I have said that CCP has made very stupid decisions recently.

The NeX store is a fantastic example. If CCP wanted to make a mint, they'd price everything at impulse-buy levels and make them destructible. The CSM more or less stated in their statement that the NeX store implementation was incompetently handled.

Now look at Dust. It's a "Free to play" pay to win micro-transaction game. It's not the first and it won't be the last. However, most f2p games are just that. Free to download and try. Most people expect "free" games to be sub-par, but, hey it's free, let's try it out. These "freeloading spectators" are extremely important. Without them p2w games have no player base, and those who ARE willing to shell out real money have no one to play with. Without the freeloaders, the markets are bare, the cities are empty, and the game is boring.

Dust is the first game I know of where the designer actually attempts to prevent the "freeloading spectators" from playing the game, rather than convert them to paying customers. No freeloaders = low population = empty match queues = dead game. And that's dumb marketing.

This seems obvious to me, but I guess I couldn't expect the same from someone who thinks everything posted on the internet is a meme.

Edit:
And if you think I'm being reactionary by accusing CCP of wanting to keep out freeloaders
Originally by: Fearless
As you probably know, DUST will operate under a virtual goods sales model. To offset the cost of 'freeloading spectators' DUST will have a nominal cover charge, one we believe is highly attractive for an AAA F2P game.

Kane Molou
Posted - 2011.07.11 21:37:00 - [86]
 

Quote:
"With our agreement with Sony they seem to be fine with our three month expansion cycle. They've been looking at the MMO space for a while, trying to understand why something like that hasn't still happened on the console. They're coming to terms with it. There are certain things they have to relax just to allow these things to function."




Ahh.. 'knock knock' last time I checked.. there is this game called Final Fantasy Online.. which is.. oh yeah a MMO, plus a few others already OUT MORONS. There on the console.. oh and that's right, most are.. botted to hell and gold sellered to hell.. but then eve is Botted to hell and gold sellered as well.

Zey Nadar
Gallente
Unknown Soldiers
Posted - 2011.07.11 21:42:00 - [87]
 

Originally by: Cashcow Golden Goose
Edited by: Cashcow Golden Goose on 11/07/2011 15:13:04
How come everything that comes out of Hilmar's mouth in the last month just feels like the embodiement of pure unchecked greed and evil?

Can anybody feel any good still in him?


Im starting to think its those 'economists' that CCP is employing that are behind all this..

Solosky
Posted - 2011.07.12 01:36:00 - [88]
 

Try to play "free" Lord of the Rings Online and you'll see game becomes unplayable after lvl 30 (out of 65) without donations/subscription.

I can bet a monocle Dust will be almostb the same. Except for - it will be un-playable without donation right from start.

(what about industry standard free trials?)

Angel Sinulf
Posted - 2011.07.12 03:41:00 - [89]
 

Good. It would really be a shame if CCP didn't get any money from developing Dust. They should charge out the wazoo for it.

Catheryn Martobi
Posted - 2011.07.12 04:01:00 - [90]
 

Originally by: Blacksquirrel
Originally by: Simetraz
Good.

Better to charge DUST players then to use the money from EVE.

Yes I know EVE money was used to develop DUST
but if DUST as a game doesn't show a profit then the money has to come from somewhere.

Don't complain, hope it is the biggest hit of the year and CCP gets a huge influx of new cash.



What you mean to tell me you paid a corporation and they used (Now their money) to further develope other things besides just the product you just bought?!!!

****ing outrageous!!!

From now on gaming companies can only use money from a single game for profit or for that game... NO OTHER TITLES!!! Everyone starts anew.


I feel more like we are buying a continual service under the promise it would be maintained and there would be two expansions per year. If CCP didn't have these other projects going on we would have much higher quality expansions.


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