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Sam Redshift
Caldari
Posted - 2011.07.10 12:27:00 - [1]
 

I am wondering if it is possible to fit an all-in-one exploration ship with deep space probes?

I just got astrometrics V and try to learn signature filtering using deep space probes. It looks like a very efficient way to quick scan systems only to see if any juicy sigs are there without scanning everything further down. I use sisters gear for this on a buzzard or imicus. I like it so far.

Problem is that I would like to skill up to an all-in-one exploration ship (Vexor-Ishtar-Gila--->Tengu) but do not see how you ever could fit a non-probe-bonused ship with an expanded probe launcher.

Are dsp's and all-in-one exploration ships mutually exclusive? Do I always need a prober - plexer ship combo if I would like to use signature filtering with deep space probes?

I am confused Confused

Mintala Arana
Amarr
Posted - 2011.07.10 13:58:00 - [2]
 

Originally by: Sam Redshift
... Are dsp's and all-in-one exploration ships mutually exclusive? ...
Not at all. I used a force recon for quite a while before I moved to a T3. You just need a cruiser-sized ship with lots of CPU. :)

Inserith Peon
Posted - 2011.07.10 17:19:00 - [3]
 

A few examples that have worked, but they are not optimal for combat. Personally, I would run a T3 with the scanning subsystem, and if in 0.0/<0.5 the covert subsystem too for the cloak, until you get to the T3 everything is a huge compromise to wedge the relevant mods in there.

[Vagabond, Scanner combat sites only - Cheapish]
Caldari Navy Co-Processor
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II

Republic Fleet 10MN Afterburner
Pithi A-Type Small Shield Booster
Invulnerability Field II
Republic Fleet Large Shield Extender

425mm AutoCannon II, Barrage M
425mm AutoCannon II, Barrage M
425mm AutoCannon II, Barrage M
425mm AutoCannon II, Barrage M
425mm AutoCannon II, Barrage M
Sisters Expanded Probe Launcher, Sisters Deep Space Scanner Probe I

Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
Medium Core Defence Field Extender I

Hobgoblin II x5

[Gila, Explorer Guristas $$$ needs 1% CPU implant]
Caldari Navy Co-Processor
Beta Reactor Control: Shield Power Relay I
Beta Reactor Control: Shield Power Relay I
Beta Reactor Control: Shield Power Relay I

Caldari Navy Large Shield Extender
Caldari Navy Large Shield Extender
Dread Guristas Kinetic Deflection Amplifier
Codebreaker I
Analyzer I
Republic Fleet 10MN Afterburner

Sisters Expanded Probe Launcher, Sisters Deep Space Scanner Probe I
Salvager I
'Arbalest' Assault Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Bloodclaw Light Missile
'Arbalest' Assault Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Bloodclaw Light Missile
'Arbalest' Assault Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Bloodclaw Light Missile

Medium Core Defence Field Purger II
Medium Core Defence Field Purger II
Medium Core Defence Field Purger II

Ogre II x5

[Ishtar, Explorer needs 1% CPU implant]
Caldari Navy Co-Processor
Imperial Navy Energized Reflective Membrane
Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Federation Navy Medium Armor Repairer
Federation Navy Medium Armor Repairer

Codebreaker I
Analyzer I
Imperial Navy Cap Recharger
Imperial Navy Cap Recharger
Imperial Navy Cap Recharger

Salvager I
Sisters Expanded Probe Launcher, Sisters Deep Space Scanner Probe I
200mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
200mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
200mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S

Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II

Ogre II x5


Inserith Peon
Posted - 2011.07.10 17:29:00 - [4]
 

Forgot Recon fit... again just a starting point, advantage is that it doesn't need a fitting mod although the tank is weak.

[Curse, Explorer]
Imperial Navy Medium Armor Repairer
Imperial Navy Adaptive Nano Plating
Imperial Navy Adaptive Nano Plating
Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane

Codebreaker I
Analyzer I
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Imperial Navy Cap Recharger
Imperial Navy Cap Recharger
10MN Afterburner II

Sisters Expanded Probe Launcher, Sisters Deep Space Scanner Probe I
Salvager I
'Arbalest' Heavy Missile Launcher, Thunderbolt Heavy Missile
'Arbalest' Heavy Missile Launcher, Thunderbolt Heavy Missile
'Arbalest' Heavy Missile Launcher, Thunderbolt Heavy Missile

Medium Anti-Thermic Pump I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I

Hammerhead II x5
Infiltrator II x5
Acolyte II x5
Hobgoblin II x5

Wedding Peach
Posted - 2011.07.10 19:30:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Inserith Peon
Forgot Recon fit... again just a starting point, advantage is that it doesn't need a fitting mod although the tank is weak.

[Curse, Explorer]
Imperial Navy Medium Armor Repairer
Imperial Navy Adaptive Nano Plating
Imperial Navy Adaptive Nano Plating
Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane

Codebreaker I
Analyzer I
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Imperial Navy Cap Recharger
Imperial Navy Cap Recharger
10MN Afterburner II

Sisters Expanded Probe Launcher, Sisters Deep Space Scanner Probe I
Salvager I
'Arbalest' Heavy Missile Launcher, Thunderbolt Heavy Missile
'Arbalest' Heavy Missile Launcher, Thunderbolt Heavy Missile
'Arbalest' Heavy Missile Launcher, Thunderbolt Heavy Missile

Medium Anti-Thermic Pump I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I

Hammerhead II x5
Infiltrator II x5
Acolyte II x5
Hobgoblin II x5



Well, of course...there's a reason for that.

That's a Curse, not a Pilgrim. I have never seen a Curse be used for exploration.

Inserith Peon
Posted - 2011.07.10 20:37:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Wedding Peach
Originally by: Inserith Peon
Forgot Recon fit... again just a starting point, advantage is that it doesn't need a fitting mod although the tank is weak.



Well, of course...there's a reason for that.

That's a Curse, not a Pilgrim. I have never seen a Curse be used for exploration.


It can, but it isn't very good at it, obviously. The Pilgrim is okay because of the cloak but you have the same issues running combat sites in it as it still has a weak tank. Like I said, I'd use a T3 personally.

PhotonBeard
Posted - 2011.07.10 21:01:00 - [7]
 

Edited by: PhotonBeard on 10/07/2011 21:05:53
Hi all! Thanks a lot for the advice.
Sticking with Caldari and Gallente, I am glad to see T2 fits with dsp's possible.
Seems I need to do some reorganisation of skill plans and EFT testing Smile but I see the light.

Edit: Sorry, It's Sam Redshift. Posted with wrong alt.

Mintala Arana
Amarr
Posted - 2011.07.10 22:49:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Inserith Peon
It can, but it isn't very good at it, obviously. The Pilgrim is okay because of the cloak but you have the same issues running combat sites in it as it still has a weak tank. Like I said, I'd use a T3 personally.
The Pilgrim will have a stronger tank and less DPS. Take your choice. Me, I'd go for more tank. :)

A Pilgrim with an expanded probe launcher might look like this:

[Pilgrim, Pilgrim: All in one Low-Sec exploration]
Caldari Navy Co-Processor
Medium Armor Repairer II
Armor Kinetic Hardener II
Armor Kinetic Hardener II
Armor Thermic Hardener II

10MN Afterburner II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Analyzer II
Codebreaker II

Covert Ops Cloaking Device II
Salvager II
Civilian Gatling Autocannon, Civilian Autocannon Ammo
Sisters Expanded Probe Launcher, Sisters Core Scanner Probe I

Medium Gravity Capacitor Upgrade I
Medium Gravity Capacitor Upgrade I


Hammerhead II x5
Hobgoblin II x5
Warrior II x5
Vespa EC-600 x5

A Tengu with covert and scanning subsystems will have a better tank yet, and more DPS than the Pilgrim. It will be close to the DPS of the Curse, but may not quite match it.

DeMichael Crimson
Minmatar
Republic University
Posted - 2011.07.11 01:24:00 - [9]
 

OK, is this a troll?

Civilian Gatling Autocannon?


One thing I do know, it certainly doesn't need Civilian Autocannon Ammo.

syphurous
Gallente
Center for Advanced Studies
Posted - 2011.07.11 02:05:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: DeMichael Crimson
OK, is this a troll?

Civilian Gatling Autocannon?


One thing I do know, it certainly doesn't need Civilian Autocannon Ammo.


Drone boat, aggro getter.

Mintala Arana
Amarr
Posted - 2011.07.11 02:15:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: syphurous
Drone boat, aggro getter.
This. More specifically, "aggro getter that doesn't use any significant CPU, grid, or (most important) cap".

5nipe
Posted - 2011.07.11 09:17:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Sam Redshift


Problem is that I would like to skill up to an all-in-one exploration ship (Vexor-Ishtar-Gila--->Tengu) but do not see how you ever could fit a non-probe-bonused ship with an expanded probe launcher.




The easiest way to solve your problem is power on launcher only when you need it. Once you done with scanning, power off launcher offline again, and make other modules power on.

Sam Redshift
Caldari
Posted - 2011.07.11 10:56:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: 5nipe
The easiest way to solve your problem is power on launcher only when you need it. Once you done with scanning, power off launcher offline again, and make other modules power on.


Thx, 5nipe ... this is the easiest way to start with .. why could I not see this myself as quick solution for Vexor problem right now Shocked.

Can I do this in space or do I have to dock in station .. similar to cap-hungry modules I cannot put online/offline easily without being docked? Need to test this tonight Very Happy

Mintala Arana
Amarr
Posted - 2011.07.11 12:15:00 - [14]
 

Edited by: Mintala Arana on 11/07/2011 12:16:25
You can online/offline modules in space. To put an offline module online, or vice versa, you need 95% (I think; it's around that anyway) of your capacitor, per module whose status you want to change. In low sec, this is not the easiest way, because it leave you hanging around somewhere for quite a while. And docking up in low sec has it's own dangers; you could find yourself camped into the station you choose.

Sam Redshift
Caldari
Posted - 2011.07.11 12:25:00 - [15]
 

Thx Mitala. This is how I remembered it myself. I see the problem for lowsec exploration.
But at least it gives me an opportunity to switch from Imicus to Vexor for highsec exploration in the moment.
Here, I can dock for modules switching without problem. Ishtar cpu stable fit is the next on my list.

Mintala Arana
Amarr
Posted - 2011.07.11 13:14:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Sam Redshift
Thx Mitala. This is how I remembered it myself. I see the problem for lowsec exploration.
But at least it gives me an opportunity to switch from Imicus to Vexor for highsec exploration in the moment.
Here, I can dock for modules switching without problem. Ishtar cpu stable fit is the next on my list.

The whole point of an "all in one" ship is to not have to dock up to run sites. If you're going to do that, carry everything in your hold and swap out modules depending on the site you're running. To be honest, you'd be better off not trying to fit the expanded probe launcher; if you stick with a core probe launcher, you alleviate almost all fitting issues (that's what I did when I explored in a recon). That does mean you can't fit Deep Space Probes, but I don't think you'll feel the lack all that much at this point.

Bottom line is that efficient exploration requires high skills, unfortunately. You either need Recon V (to fit that Pilgrim I provided last night or something similar) or lots of SP in subsystems and your preferred T3. As a result, you pretty much always need Cruiser V. And then you need Astrometrics V, and the other associated skills trained to IV.

Sam Redshift
Caldari
Posted - 2011.07.11 13:29:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Mintala Arana
The whole point of an "all in one" ship is to not have to dock up to run sites. If you're going to do that, carry everything in your hold and swap out modules depending on the site you're running. To be honest, you'd be better off not trying to fit the expanded probe launcher; if you stick with a core probe launcher, you alleviate almost all fitting issues

True words, Mintala! Bottomline is ... as an explorer I need to show more patience Cool. I got my astrometrics V already and related skills at IV. Now, I should just doing as much exploration as possible do learn the trade rather than worrying about ship fits in detail until my ship skills are up to fly a T3 cruiser.

Thanks a lot.

Ok, I know now what to do .. patience, patience, patience ...hhhmmmm cruiser V here yet? ... PATIENCE, MAN.

Suzu Fujibayashi
Happy Dudes
Posted - 2011.07.12 21:36:00 - [18]
 

An Arbitrator can do it, but don't expect to do any low-sec combat sites. On the other hand it's cheap.

At least it's good enough to do the radar/salvage sites.

[Arbitrator, solo exploration]
F85 Peripheral Damage System I
Co-Processor II
Tracking Enhancer II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II

Y-S8 Hydrocarbon I Afterburners
Codebreaker I
Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction

Expanded Probe Launcher I, Deep Space Scanner Probe I
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Multifrequency M
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Multifrequency M
Salvager I /OFFLINE

Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I


Hammerhead II x5
Hornet EC-300 x5
Vespa EC-600 x5
Hobgoblin II x5

Mizhir
Posted - 2011.07.13 09:32:00 - [19]
 

I got few questions too, so I am gonna hijack your thread :D

Atm I am using an Arbitrator as an all-in-one exploration ship, but what should the next step be? Battlecruisers? I will be able to fly both Amarr and Minmatar BCs soon, but how good are they as exploration ships and which one is most suited? Or should I get the Myrmidon since its a droneboat aswell.

Also what is the advantage of using Deep space probes? And are they really a must have?

Sam Redshift
Caldari
Posted - 2011.07.13 10:49:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Mizhir
I got few questions too, so I am gonna hijack your thread :D


Be my guest. I do the same all the time Wink.

Cannot give any sensible input to your ship question because I fly Caldari/Gallente Cool. But generally in different threads the development from Arbitrator to Myrmidon is considered as a sensible step for Amarr pilots .. drones are always freeing up high slots for exploration stuff.

Deep space probes are not a must rather an efficiency enhancer for long and wide exploration roams. You can drop one dsp in a system to get an immediate rough overview about types of signatures you have using the signature signal strength from the first scan. So if you search for particular plexes or wh's in many cases you see immediately if it is present rather than scanning all signatures down much further. There was a discussion active about dsp filtering in this forum some days ago. Have a look.

MafiaFromRussia
Posted - 2011.07.13 11:37:00 - [21]
 

Hi, so far i'm using nighthawk for all in 1 highsec exploration ship. has enough dps and cpu. so far is pretty good for high sec. usually i first use that sister combat probe to find what's in system, i fly to any avaliable sites and kill npcs while scanning down the next sig, usually can find any site with only 4 sister probes if for some reason i cant locate the sig i bring out buzzard. i guess next step would be tengu.

Sam Redshift
Caldari
Posted - 2011.07.13 12:01:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: MafiaFromRussia
Hi, so far i'm using nighthawk for all in 1 highsec exploration ship. has enough dps and cpu. so far is pretty good for high sec.


Hi MFR, this something I even have not considered. Very interesting idea. I just wonder if the extensive skills required make it a good intermediate step towards a Tengu or if it is better to go from HAC (Cerberus?) directly to Tengu. What I really like with your Nighthawk is the hefty bonus for kinetic missiles ... I am in Gurista space most of the time ... yaaarrrrr YARRRR!!

MafiaFromRussia
Posted - 2011.07.13 12:20:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Sam Redshift
Hi MFR, this something I even have not considered. Very interesting idea. I just wonder if the extensive skills required make it a good intermediate step towards a Tengu or if it is better to go from HAC (Cerberus?) directly to Tengu. What I really like with your Nighthawk is the hefty bonus for kinetic missiles ... I am in Gurista space most of the time ... yaaarrrrr YARRRR!!


since im at work i can try to remember the fit. 4 malkuth heavy missiles, tractor beam+ salvager and expanded probe luncher. in mids small shield extender , analyzer and codebreaker(have to keep 1 off due to cpu issues), pith c kinetic amplifier, pith c thermal amplifier (since im in guristas space). in lows 2 dread guristas bcu , 2 bcs tech 2, and one item that increases shield recharge at cap expence. for rigs i have missile damage increase. and 5 drones too.
this fits works good for most things, if required can fit 2 more heavy missiles and specific amplifiers.


 

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