open All Channels
seplocked Missions & Complexes
blankseplocked Incursions Are Way Too Easy
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Pages: [1] 2

Author Topic

Jasdemi
Interstellar Whine Brewery
Monocle Overlords
Posted - 2011.07.09 10:52:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Jasdemi on 09/07/2011 11:36:57
I'm fairly new to incursions, but have ran all sites already(VG/AS/HQ). In total 20-30 sites.
Yet I've never experienced any "WTF, WE'RE DYING!!" moments.

Don't you guys think that incursions should be buffed a bit? IMO, WoW instances are even harder than EVE incursions.

PS: And yeah, all incursions I've done were with random pilots and not some elites.

Tetragammatron Prime
Posted - 2011.07.09 11:00:00 - [2]
 

I've seen you guys doing incursions and you bring even 30 guys to vanguard sites so of course it is too easy (and your pay outs must be terrible).

DeMichael Crimson
Minmatar
Republic University
Posted - 2011.07.09 11:08:00 - [3]
 

Sad

Phinger
Posted - 2011.07.09 13:31:00 - [4]
 

Comparing Raiding in wow to what incursions are is sort of ******ed.

First there is no dungeon finder, so you have to wait around and find a group that has a FC that knows how to form a group. And in eve it may look easy when u get a good FC forming a fleet, and you blow thru it....but I have seen a few wrecks in Vanguards.....so it aint easy if the FC doesnt compile a solid group.

Plus you have to remember the penalty for screwing up in Eve is the hull loss of a fairly substantial investment....in wow you wipe you lose nuthing except time and you run back....if the group keeps failing you leave. NO LOSS.

Yes it can be dull....they could ramp up the final encounters to be harder.


Stack'em High
Posted - 2011.07.09 13:33:00 - [5]
 

The first time I saw an incursion there were shiney ships flying in and pods flying out faster than I could count. Then people figured out how to do them. Any now there's incursion 'farming'.

Which is how it was always supposed to be. The only thing incursion fleets need to figure out is getting the right fleet together.

What's the problem?

Fractal Muse
Posted - 2011.07.09 13:48:00 - [6]
 

I ran incursions for the first time last night: It was fun.

We had a -great- FC and he knew how to A) keep a fleet together and B) how to properly set up a fleet.

The reason why incursions are 'easy' now is because we have great incursion FCs.

When incursions first came out people died super fast. Now there is a plethora of logistics players who provide the safety net for the incursion fleets.

If you want to do the harder incursions then join up against a LIVE incursion event.

As to the WoW comment: I don't think incursions are easier than WoW instances or raids. Incursions are, basically, where WoW heroics are towards the end of an expansion lifespan - being farmed. WoW instances are super easy when everyone knows what to do and does it. WoW raids are the same.

With incursions with a good FC (just like in WoW with a good raid leader) everyone knows what to do and gets it done.

Barbarella Smith
Posted - 2011.07.09 13:55:00 - [7]
 

its all about the FC, if you have a bad FC then its the WTF! we're dying thing, a good FC makes it look easy. Ive been in both. Confused

luvmehard
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.07.12 08:48:00 - [8]
 

Yesterday I had a pretty awful FC. Babbling, indecisive, lot's of "uhm"-s etc.
Still, we had logi pilots with brains, appointed squad leader knew how and what to tag, we x-ed up EHPs for anchor ourselves and the drone monkey was also a volunteer.

So yes, FC's can make the difference, but with a bit of experience under everyone's hat Vanguards are not at all risky even if the FC is subpar.

HardinSalvor
Posted - 2011.07.12 09:46:00 - [9]
 

Partly my fault :(

And yes, incursions need to be made considerably harder alongside a major (50%+) payout nerf to vanguards. In the meantime, enjoy the ISK.

catinboots
Minmatar
Vintage heavy industries
Posted - 2011.07.12 10:09:00 - [10]
 

Edited by: catinboots on 12/07/2011 10:09:37
Lol funny i still remember the first 3 high sec incursions , if i am correct over the 3000 ships died during those first couple of days, i made a small fortune then selling ammo ships and. Modules in the incursion systems
Sigh those were the days

Siigari Kitawa
Gallente
Perditus Peregrinus
Posted - 2011.07.12 13:07:00 - [11]
 

Are people using shield tanks because they're carebears or because shield tanks are more effective than armor RR?

Moroccan Tourist
Posted - 2011.07.12 13:11:00 - [12]
 

ban cruisers BC and BS from doing incursion , only real man in hull tanked frigates should be allowed to enter

A'Brantox Foson
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.07.12 14:07:00 - [13]
 

Well tbh... they are quite hard.. end of really =P

HardinSalvor
Posted - 2011.07.12 16:59:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Siigari Kitawa
Are people using shield tanks because they're carebears or because shield tanks are more effective than armor RR?


I like to think it's because we're more organised xD but its probably because:


  • They're carebears

  • Shield RR reps at the start of a cycle and armor RR reps at the end of the cycle


Cambarus
Malicious Destruction
War Against the Manifest
Posted - 2011.07.12 17:27:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: HardinSalvor
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa
Are people using shield tanks because they're carebears or because shield tanks are more effective than armor RR?


I like to think it's because we're more organised xD but its probably because:


  • They're carebears

  • Shield RR reps at the start of a cycle and armor RR reps at the end of the cycle


That's not why I went for a shield tanked setup :P

Tetragammatron Prime
Posted - 2011.07.12 22:56:00 - [16]
 

Shield tank gets highest dps which is king for pve since it increases your isk/hour. Also you don't need all the mids slot you get from armor tanking unless perhaps you were anticipating pvp but from my experience people don't bother engaging an incursion fleet unless they have an overwhelming blob to deal with the pvers as well as npc aggro.

Exordium8
Minmatar
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2011.07.13 01:33:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Siigari Kitawa
Are people using shield tanks because they're carebears or because shield tanks are more effective than armor RR?


Because shield tanks free up lows for gank mods.

HardinSalvor
Posted - 2011.07.13 10:24:00 - [18]
 

Aside from the RR, I think each setup more or less cancels out. Shield get low slot damage modifiers increasing base damage and armor gets mid slot utilities increasing applied damage. But whatever, people fly what they fly.


luvmehard
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.07.13 10:35:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: HardinSalvor
Aside from the RR, I think each setup more or less cancels out. Shield get low slot damage modifiers increasing base damage and armor gets mid slot utilities increasing applied damage. But whatever, people fly what they fly.


This.
I have twice as much skillpoints in shields than in armor and guess what I fly, Abaddon.

Sjugar
Posted - 2011.07.13 10:46:00 - [20]
 

Incursion are way way easier then whatever dungeon WoW had. The fact that the penalty for failure is harsher doesn't make them harder.

Cambarus
Malicious Destruction
War Against the Manifest
Posted - 2011.07.13 21:25:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Sjugar
Incursion are way way easier then whatever dungeon WoW had. The fact that the penalty for failure is harsher doesn't make them harder.
Therein lies the problem. CCP can only make the content so difficult, because at the end of the day the penalty for failure is MUCH higher in an eve pve encounter than one in, say, WoW. There's also the fact that most of the people who play eve are somewhat lazy about it (WRT pve at least), which shoots the higher end content in the foot if it's too difficult. Incursions more or less proved this. You have something that makes MUCH more isk per hour than other forms of pve, is available in highsec, and is relatively easy compared to higher end pve content in other games (I say relatively because, come on, look at how many people died the first week or 2 of incursions. Basilisk prices practically doubled because of it), yet it still gets ignored by the vast majority of the game. 30-50,000 people online and less than 1% of them participate in incursions, because they either prefer pvp, or prefer pve that doesn't require much attention/effort/teamwork.

tapatio hot sauce
Posted - 2011.07.13 23:06:00 - [22]
 

i give up on incursions. lost 4 bs to either server crashes or fc not knowing what they are doing. too hard to make up for it now, i guess its back to level 4 missions, at least it is easier and guaranteed isk.

Tetragammatron Prime
Posted - 2011.07.14 00:23:00 - [23]
 

Reading the CSM notes it sounds like all but the easiest and low paying Incursions will soon be made low/null sec only to promote pvp and improve risk:reward which I guess will make them a bit harder if you have visitors while doing an Incursion site.

Pedronicus
Caldari
Blue Ice Syndicate
Posted - 2011.07.14 08:06:00 - [24]
 

Incursion are not easy nor difficult.
Lets see Pros/Cons of Incursion vs. HighSec Level 4 Missions From a PVE Carebear point of view:

Advantegs of Incursion vs. Level 4 Missions
1. Incursions give better ISK/Hour compared to Level 4 Highsec missions.
2. Incursions which are obviously done in a fleet instead of SOLO promotes team play, and carebears will learn how fun is it to play in a team.
3. Due to Incursions people move around the Eve Universe and meet different people and visits systems which they have never visited in their years of game play.

Advantages of Level 4 Missions vs. Incursions
1. You don't need to wait for hours to get into a fleet and let the whole fleet assemble. Unless you are flying Shiny Toys and know the Elites :P
2. You can pretty much AFK or very easily do all Level 4 Missions. In Incursions you have to be cautious all the time. One small mistake and you are blown into pieces.
3. It will take much time and luck to get friendly with good FCs and start getting good fleets. Even after that many times you will be in PUGS, where you can't be sure that if all people are competent. It takes only a few incompetent people to get the entire fleet blow up.
4. You can do missions and almost be sure it will not be contested, while almost 50% time in in Incursions it is contested and ISK is not guaranteed if you are not flying Shiny toys.

Those are few points, i am sure there are many more.
Like someone suggested that rewards should be half for Incursions, that will almost get all of the people out of Incursions. Even now very few people are doing it, so to encourage more rewards should be increased a bit and Concord LP store should get more stuff.

jx3p
Posted - 2011.07.14 08:47:00 - [25]
 

If Incursions are too easy for you might i suggest you try and do some nullsec Incursions next time? Also, alert any alliance that holds that space that you plan to do an Incursion in their territory. That should increase the difficulty more to your liking, no?

HardinSalvor
Posted - 2011.07.14 09:41:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Pedronicus


Advantages of Level 4 Missions vs. Incursions
1. You don't need to wait for hours to get into a fleet and let the whole fleet assemble. Unless you are flying Shiny Toys and know the Elites :P
3. It will take much time and luck to get friendly with good FCs and start getting good fleets. Even after that many times you will be in PUGS, where you can't be sure that if all people are competent. It takes only a few incompetent people to get the entire fleet blow up.



These are true to a point, but I think they are somewhat exaggerated. Finding a fleet isn't nearly as hard as it used to be. More fleets running -> more pilots coming and going -> faster turnover of pilots -> shorter waiting time. While incursions are often elitist, it's by no means a rule and there's a lot of good FC's who will take a handful of newer players in their fleets, particularly in assault and headquarters fleets where there is very little competition.

Originally by: Pedronicus

Like someone suggested that rewards should be half for Incursions, that will almost get all of the people out of Incursions. Even now very few people are doing it, so to encourage more rewards should be increased a bit and Concord LP store should get more stuff.


I disagree. Making somewhere upwards of 80m/h (median 100-140m?) with very little risk is imbalanced, especially when taken alongside the anomaly nerfs in nullsec. Increasing that increases the imbalance. Incursions are already ridiculously profitable and I don't think increasing that profit will bring many more players - those who haven't come already either don't know how profitable it is or, as you point out, prefer to run solo or semi-afk.

Angelina Morgan
Amarr
Blue Ice Syndicate
Posted - 2011.07.14 10:20:00 - [27]
 

Edited by: Angelina Morgan on 14/07/2011 10:23:02
Finding a fleet is not hard but finding a good one is. Though things have been improving lately. Some days I can get in an awesome fleet and get >80 mill/hr isk and on some days I have to wait 2 hrs before getting fleeted and then seeing the fleet disband after 3 sites. Mind it this was with the standard T2 Autocannon Maelstrom.

Now that I have upgraded to a shiny, things seem to be a little better but time will tell.

Also if we take an average ballpark of 80m/hr incursion profits atm and cut them in half i.e. 40m/hr, I might go back to mission running on my PvE alt as I can get the same/better isk there (excluding LP). But then incursions are still more fun than just soloing missions.

Other than that I will try the assault(and after that HQ) sites in near future to gain more experience.

Bossanova Widya
Posted - 2011.07.14 11:21:00 - [28]
 

Thank god for you people who die a lot, if you would'nt die so much in valient failure... we wud be sitting on 5mil/site by now... a zero seven to you, a zero seven to you o7

Jumeira
Posted - 2011.07.14 20:43:00 - [29]
 

Edited by: Jumeira on 14/07/2011 20:43:30
yeah, its the waiting around for fleets that evens out the pay per hour i reckon

Cambarus
Malicious Destruction
War Against the Manifest
Posted - 2011.07.14 23:14:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: HardinSalvor

I disagree. Making somewhere upwards of 80m/h (median 100-140m?) with very little risk is imbalanced, especially when taken alongside the anomaly nerfs in nullsec. Increasing that increases the imbalance. Incursions are already ridiculously profitable and I don't think increasing that profit will bring many more players - those who haven't come already either don't know how profitable it is or, as you point out, prefer to run solo or semi-afk.
TBH I think the biggest problem with the profit incursions pull in is that there's an inherent advantage to running them in highsec even once you get past the issue of people being able to shoot you in low/null (though the issue does stem from that).

The problem as it stands is that if you want to run sites in nullsec, you're pretty much screwed most of the time, because there is no way to get the incursions to spawn where you want them to, and consequently they're not a viable source of income for people living in 0.0 Were there a way to sort of force incursions to spawn in your own space, there really wouldn't be much of a problem with the payouts, because they are quite a bit higher in low/null (43% higher than highsec IIRC). But, as it stands, because incursions are only really a reliable source of income for people in highsec (and goons roaming low) the lack of balance there is huge.


Pages: [1] 2

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only