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Mini T
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2011.07.08 12:44:00 - [1]
 

Ok, I know I am opening myself up for some good jabs, but I really need some help.

I am just getting it handed to me when it comes to PVP and really do not know what to do to improve my chances. So here are some basics and I am open to any suggestions.

I have been fying Frigates in PVP, which is really not my strong suit training wise (trained more for Drake - but trying to keep cost and the "**** off/Gank Factor" a bit lower by staying in the Frigs (maybe a bad idea).

I am typically using light missiles or rockets. Trained to T2 in rockets, but not in light missiles. Trained to T2 in heavy missiles too. Am I completely gimped with missile use. Most encounters people cut through my frig like a hot knife through butter. Not even sure I am getting off a second volley.

Do I swap to cruisers, do I stick with Frigs and train more, do I swap to guns???? Really frustrated and could use some CONSTRUCTIVE feeback amongst the jabs.

Mona X
Caldari
Missions Mining and Mayhem
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2011.07.08 12:46:00 - [2]
 

Train for rifter and small T2 autos.

Libia Malkanarn
Amarr
Imperial Academy
Posted - 2011.07.08 12:47:00 - [3]
 

Quote:
I am typically using light missiles or rockets. Trained to T2 in rockets, but not in light missiles. Trained to T2 in heavy missiles too. Am I completely gimped with missile use. Most encounters people cut through my frig like a hot knife through butter. Not even sure I am getting off a second volley.


Light missiles an rockets aren't exactly amazing, I assume you are flying Caldari T1/T2 frigates? Which aren't exactly brilliant either

DeBingJos
Minmatar
Goat Holdings
Posted - 2011.07.08 13:02:00 - [4]
 

What type of ships are you fighting. The key to successfull pvp is choosing your targets wisely.

howling wind
Posted - 2011.07.08 13:02:00 - [5]
 

The whole progressive PVP thing doesn't work for everyone... I myself skipped straight to battlecruisers and above because that is where my skills were strongest.
The most important thing to do for yourself is to find a friendly, good PVP corp that will help you learn PVP, this is a much better method than flying T1 frigates into oblivion in my opinion. You will learn a lot faster and also make some friends (what we're all playing for <3).

Dont believe these forums, drakes are a good PVP battlecruiser if flown properly and you wont have to sell your soul to fly one, honest.

[Drake, Drake: Optimal solo/small gang PvP drake]
Power Diagnostic System II
Damage Control II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II

Invulnerability Field II
Invulnerability Field II
Warp Disruptor II
Large Shield Extender II
X5 Prototype I Engine Enervator
10MN MicroWarpdrive I

Small Diminishing Power System Drain I
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II

Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
Medium Core Defence Field Extender I

This is a good fit. I personally drop the web for a Photon Scattering Field but thats personal preference. Also HAM's can be switched for HML's easily. (might have to use a fitting module)

tl;dr: Get a PVP drake, get a PVP corp, get kills and experience.

Mini T
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2011.07.08 13:07:00 - [6]
 

Edited by: Mini T on 08/07/2011 13:17:24
Edited by: Mini T on 08/07/2011 13:11:21
Yea, I am flying T1 Caldari frigs (and a Hookbill). I do have a Rifter, but I am not trained well for it.

I have been flying a Kestral or a Merlin.

Are there Cruisers I should consider?

As far as what I am fighting, basically various other frigs (have not tried to step off into anything bigger).

Edit: I should note as well, to date my style of play has been Drakes and BS Drone ships (heavy missiles/Cruise Missiles), medium to heavy tank at distance. Making the shift down to small fast ships that require up close and personal has been a tough transition.

Taurean Eltanin
The Tuskers
Posted - 2011.07.08 13:29:00 - [7]
 

Right, let's start at the beginning.

You have not told us what kind of pvp you want to do. The answers you get are going to vary according to the assumptions being made. Are you in null sec fleets? Low sec gangs? Solo?

I'm going to assume solo, because you don't mention anyone you are flying with, and, coincidentally, that's the kind of pvp I specialise in.

Frigates, cruisers and battlecruisers are all viable for solo pvp. Each have their own engagement envelopes and their own issues. Pick the one you like, and stick with it.

I stay "stick with it" because pvp rewards skill point investment. That's not to say that you need loads of skill points to be successful, but it certainly helps.

Frigates are able to move around fairly safely; you are not immune to gate camps, but you'll survive the bad ones. You can also choose your fights, and your targets are other frigates, some cruisers, and occasional battlecruisers.

Cruisers have more trouble moving around than frigates, but have wider engagement envelopes. They can take on pretty much any frigate, other cruisers and some battle cruisers.

Battlecruisers are going to have to fight their way out of pretty much any game camp they run into, but can take on pretty much any ship 1v1, providing you have fit them correctly.

Once you have decided what you want to fly, buy 20 or so T1 hulls and lose them all in pvp. After each fight, take a long, hard look at what you did wrong, and what you did right. Try to improve each time.

There is no substitute for learning by doing. While I don't know if frigates are right for you, my blog is a record of my own process of learning pvp. I may not be able to tell you what you need to do, but I can tell you what worked for me.

Meditril
Posted - 2011.07.08 13:32:00 - [8]
 

With Frigates you first need to decide what is your style of play, then you should fit properly for the style and also apply the proper tactics. Here are your main choices:

a) Very Fast and fluffy long range => Crow with long point and missiles with MWD. Never come closer than 15 km to any target, low DPS so not good for solo but nice as scout for fleets. Speed is essential to dictated range so you should fit nanos.

b) Fast but sturdy short range => Caldari Navy Hookbill with rockets, scrambler, medium shield extender, MWD + AB, web or tracking disruptor. Nice DPS, approach with MWD then switch for AB once in orbit at 500 m. Useful for solo, but also nice in fleets for pinpointing. Drones die fast to your rockets, but neutralizers and web can be deadly.

c) Slow + long range: Hawk with missiles and ab and a lot of tank (shield extenders). Use AB to avoid damage. Nice for slow fleets.

d) ECM: Kitsune. Every fleet commander is happy to have some ECM boats in fleet. Help your mates to survive, stay at range and break targets lock!

Jude Lloyd
Heretic Army
B A N E
Posted - 2011.07.08 14:11:00 - [9]
 

Merlin. Use it. Very Happy

Mini T
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2011.07.08 15:09:00 - [10]
 

Thanks for the input all. I see that what you are saying holds true. Find what I want to fly and get good at it.

Really, one last question;

Am I gimped by the missiles? I know that application of DPS is slower, and I am sure with maxed out skills this diminishes the gap considerably. However, if all things are equal, are missile boats as viable in PVP as gun boats?

Dark Pangolin
Caldari
Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse
Posted - 2011.07.08 16:03:00 - [11]
 

Missile boats tend to shine in larger numbers (i.e. Drake balls)...Gun Ships tend to do more dps and apply it faster which tends to be the king in small scale pvp

Mini T
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2011.07.08 18:08:00 - [12]
 

Edited by: Mini T on 08/07/2011 18:08:54
Taurean Eltanin - I read through your blog and am intrigued - I am not sure how you fit that Vengeange with such little time in game (maybe I misread this - 6 months?).

Anyhow, aside from having to train up armor tanking your fit seems like something that would utilize my missile skills, rockets namely, quite well. Do you feel that (for these skills) that the Vengeance is about the best of the bunch?

What are your thoughts on an interum ship (as I have not fully trained Assalts ships)in the mean time? I was thinking about sticking with the Hookbill as I can run Rockets and do about the same damage you are doing with the Veng, just less tank.

Would like to hear your opinion.

BTW - I too just started in a pretty favorable PVP training corp, so I may just need to find someone who will help me out there.

Barbarella Smith
Posted - 2011.07.08 18:14:00 - [13]
 

I suck at pvp as well, sometimes, if im in a hurry, i just exit station, engage self-destruct and re-dock. but anyway, if you want a missile frigate, the minmitar breacher is awesome. its got the 10% to kinetic damage bonus per frigate level and its very fast. keep at range. dont get blobbed. dont get close to all those other frigates with autocannons. yes it has tissue paper for tank, but at range its tank is its speed and its damage bonuses. if you can kill one frigate for each one that kills you, its better then not killing any at all. and they are cheap.

Teya Ihara
Posted - 2011.07.08 20:10:00 - [14]
 

A few things.

A Hookbill is awesome once you have great skills and some experience. This is true of all the faction/pirate and T2 frigates really. IMO they're a bit pricey to jump into for starter pvp. The frigate hulls are largely flimsy little things with a very small margin for error. Keeping them cheap, disposable, and experimenting with different things is a good way to fly frig PvP

Having a faction ship will also trim down your targets in such a way that it will become difficult to get an engagement on your terms. Think of it from a potential target standpoint. A newer player with mediocre skills in a T1 frig will be reluctant to engage someone in an expensive ship for lack of confidence, so your best bet to kill them is finding someone completely ignorant to pvp(there are plenty of them sure, but maybe not as many as you'd think). An older/veteran player will be likely engage a Hookbill flown by a relatively young player at any opportunity because its a nice target with a decent pricetag, and likely win through experience and better skills.

I would recommend dropping to a standard T1 hull for a longer stretch of time, and practice proper target selection. You can be a little bit more aggressive with them and not have to worry about price. The thing with PvP is you can almost never bet on a "fair" fight, so you have to plan for that in advance and do what you can to make sure the fight is on your terms, or at least one you don't mind losing for the experience. I've engaged an under-skilled drake pilot in a Punisher before, and lost because I didn't deal with the drones, but it was worth the risk!

Diversify your ship selection. Missiles aren't bad, but it takes almost no time at all to also train decent guns for frig platforms so you can use everything the Caldari have to offer. The Merlin is a very underestimated little PvP boat with flexible fitting (think about MAPC for some interesting fitting options) even in partly T1/named fits. The most important thing is experience so getting more fights = better chances of success. Maybe also consider joining a corp like RvB, although I've heard recently its a bit less noob friendly, it couldn't hurt to get you more pvp action.

Taurean Eltanin
The Tuskers
Posted - 2011.07.09 08:35:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Mini T
Edited by: Mini T on 08/07/2011 18:08:54
Taurean Eltanin - I read through your blog and am intrigued - I am not sure how you fit that Vengeange with such little time in game (maybe I misread this - 6 months?).

Anyhow, aside from having to train up armor tanking your fit seems like something that would utilize my missile skills, rockets namely, quite well. Do you feel that (for these skills) that the Vengeance is about the best of the bunch?

What are your thoughts on an interum ship (as I have not fully trained Assalts ships)in the mean time? I was thinking about sticking with the Hookbill as I can run Rockets and do about the same damage you are doing with the Veng, just less tank.

Would like to hear your opinion.

BTW - I too just started in a pretty favorable PVP training corp, so I may just need to find someone who will help me out there.


Fitting my Vengeance? There are two keys. First, one of my first major purchases was a set of +4 implants; hands down the best investment a new player can make. I protect these by using jump clones to pvp - Estel Arador Corp services can set you up with free jump clones. The result is that on those days that I do not pvp I am training at 125% of the base training rate. If you only pvp in high sec (as I did at the start) you can even wear them on the days you pvp.

The second key is focus. By choosing a particular class (frigate), race (Amarr) and hull (Vengeance) I can then focus exclusively on the skills that I actually use. Of my ten million or so skill points, I use about 90% when sitting in my Vengeance (I have some gunnery skills I trained up from when I was flying a Punisher, and I experimented a bit before choosing where to focus). Pilots with equal skill points but less focus might only be using 50% of their skill points when sitting in their combat ship.

I don't think that the Vengeance is the "best" rocket ship, though. It simply has the best tank, and I love tanky ships. The Hawk can come very close, so I would probably be quite happy flying that if I had started Caldari; the difference is not worth the additional training time.

The Hookbill is flat out amazing, of course. Being able to mount double webs on a rocket ship is obscene.

I'd say that the Merlin is the best T1 Caldari ship for solo pvp - it destroys Rifters - if you don't mind sinking some points into gunnery for the split weapons. Otherwise, you are left with the Kestrel, which is totally decent.

Mini T
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2011.07.09 13:38:00 - [16]
 

Thanks everyone for the input. Spent last night getting popped in a couple of Kestrels and doing some heavy observation, reading and rereading this post, the blog and a few others.

I now think I have it a bit more figured out. Aside from personally sucking at PVP (both due to no skills and to the fact that my training is too thin in a few areas), a few things stand out.

The training focus, which I did well in PVE (getting my Drake and BS skills to where I could solo L4 and L5), has hurt me a bit in the Frigs. I was running a Hookbill, but a lack of tactical PVP skills means I fly it poorly in PVP. I was using Missiles which the cycle time was killing me and I could not stay at range (my problem not the ships).

I also noted that most of the people who I am fighting are in interdictors or assalt ships, have more skill and just smoke me in mear seconds.

THus, my new focus is to get al lthe skills necessary to fly the Hookbill and the Vengeance well beccause I too like tanky ships. That seems to be my single biggest problem, I cant tank much of anything. I am going to get good with these two ships and pick a single gun ship to get good at both from a training and from a flight standpoint. Then head out to try my hand again.

I was part of a small corp and think I can get them to do some training with me before I try my abilities out in the “real world”.

Anyhow, thanks so much for all your help. This has been a real learning experience.


 

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