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Raid'En
Posted - 2011.07.08 21:26:00 - [331]
 

Edited by: Raid''En on 09/07/2011 13:18:49
Originally by: Sader Rykane
You guys absoloutly FAIL to understand the concept of micro transactions.

the whole community agree on that, the issue is that the whole company does not agree on that... or simply don't care...

Darth Sith
Genbuku.
Nulli Secunda
Posted - 2011.07.08 21:30:00 - [332]
 

I would like a purple strap on, fishnet stockings and a corset. And they should not be restricted to male / female characters too ;)

What I do in my CQ is my own business.

Speaking which .. any plans to release pets for the CQ? Specifically barn-yard animals ?


Pytria Le'Danness
Posted - 2011.07.08 21:31:00 - [333]
 

Originally by: Jada Maroo

Congratulations, CCP, you managed to make a feature I was enthusiastic about, Incarna, into something I wish would just go away. Zin, you're just clueless about how to make a game enjoyable, you know that?

Seriously, your participation in it has just sucked the fun right out of this whole expansion.


This too. I was really excited about Incarna, but since it got turned into a cheap vehicle whoring NEx garbage I'd rather see the art people work on redesigning space ships. At least I will not get ripped off by hull changes - at least not until a marketing goon at P realizes they could sell the new hulls for 98765432 aurum.

Sethose Olderon
Gryphon Chancellery
Gryphon League
Posted - 2011.07.08 21:34:00 - [334]
 

CCP, maybe you should read the forums again. These prices are still too high.

Karthwritte
Posted - 2011.07.08 21:38:00 - [335]
 

Originally by: CCP Zinfandel
Hey guys,

Important note here. This is about learning. We need to learn about this stuff. We are just dipping our toes into the water here, seeing how this all works while being careful not to mess up the economy. So far, we've been successful at protecting the EVE economy. PLEX prices on the ISK market are currently unaffected.

We aren't making a lot of money but that's not the point.

Any questions?


So that means: "Hey, this is not MY idea, Marketing wanna try it, some high ups wanna see data, this could not be forever. ITS NOT GOLD AMMO, DONT PANIC"


I believe somebody really thinks EVE its REAL. Thats why they sell virtual clothes at real clothes price.

Faith Clothos
Posted - 2011.07.08 21:44:00 - [336]
 

I see what's going on, in between lines of ****e someone got convinced that you could start the first SPACE fashion house.

There is still someone in CCP convinced that people will see this garbage and go "OMG he is wearing the latest in the Vallou collection!", when in reality people go more: Check it out, that ******s wearing $80 worth of virtual junk.

I know your trailers are saying EVE is real but have some soda water, a coffee, throw up in the washroom a bit maybe and they internalize this:

EVE IS NOT REAL.

EVE IS A VIDEOGAME, AND NEITHER THE BEST, NOR MORE POPULAR ONE.

YOU ARE NOT A FASHION DESIGNER (and if you were you oughta be ashamed of the garbage you are putting out).

But I think your biggest problem is that you are completely out of touch with the playerbase. Why are you selling this garbage inteast of giving us our crazy hair and fishbowls from the old char creator back?

And why are you selling it for more than real, good looking clothes cost.

And finally, how long till we see pepsi ads on the CQ tv?

Gaia Ma'chello
Posted - 2011.07.08 21:54:00 - [337]
 

CCP; you explained your pricing strategy, but not your pricing reasoning. Why is the lowest tier 1000 Aurum per item and not say 100, or 10 or 1? What was the process by which you came to these prices?

Let me tell you mine.

First I note that 1 PLEX = 3500 AURM = 350 million ISK, so 1 Aur = 100,000 ISK.

I want to know how much something is eve is worth. How do I do this? By comparing it to a real world equivalent.

Example: A real cruise missile is worth $1 million. An Eve cruise missle is 100 ISK. Therefore 1 ISK buys in eve as much as $10,000 in reality. Thus really expensive $1000 designer pants should cost 0.10 ISK, or one millionth of an Aurum.

But you sell them for 1000 Aurum, a billion times more.

What line of reasoning did you go through to get a number a billion times higher than mine?

Please do not dismiss this by saying something like "this is a game and making comparisons to reality are useless", take this head on and tell us your price reasoning.

Carai an'Caldazar
Amarr
Oberon Incorporated
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2011.07.08 21:58:00 - [338]
 

Originally by: Faith Clothos
EVE IS A VIDEOGAME, AND NEITHER THE BEST, NOR MORE POPULAR ONE.


I disagree... hence why I am subscribed. To me, personally, it is the best on the market today for what I want to be spending what little free time I have enjoying :)

Originally by: Faith Clothos
But I think your biggest problem is that you are completely out of touch with the playerbase. Why are you selling this garbage inteast of giving us our crazy hair and fishbowls from the old char creator back?


CCP - We pay a monthly subscription under the assumption that for our money we will get to enjoy your game. Completely agree that we would like to move forward in what we can experience (or look like), not have things taken away then charged for as they are reintroduced!

Originally by: Faith Clothos
And finally, how long till we see pepsi ads on the CQ tv?


I would MUCH rather see Pepsi and Coca~Cola adds in my captains quarters than have an Aurum store. Hell, if you targeted the adds correctly - sci-fi tv shows, soft drinks, movie trailers, etc. - you could introduce Real Life advertising into the Captains Quarters and do away with your whole MT concept. Now there might be some innovation in the MMORPG market. 10six was talking about doing something like that when they were in beta oh-so-long-ago. On the other hand, if you introduce this and then remove the mute button from the tv viewer with commercials, we'll rage like there's no tomorrow ;)

Cosmoes
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.07.08 22:01:00 - [339]
 

kinda makes sense

still even the cheap stuff is on the high end of general MMO pricing.

One thing I would like to ask is will certain parts of our outfit be limited to specific teers?

For example say I want to buy a pair of goggles, are there goggles available for every price range or are they only limited to the higher price ranges?

Smagd
Encina Technologies
Namtz' aar K'in
Posted - 2011.07.08 22:02:00 - [340]
 

Thank you, CCP, for creating an item I do not want for the price you offer it, or a tenth of that, or at all.

So when will we get new space ship stuff? Or, you know, at least hats for our space ships to wear. And ties. And monocles. So they can be seen when I'm preening myself on Rens BTT undock.

St'oto
Elite Predators
Posted - 2011.07.08 22:04:00 - [341]
 

Edited by: St''oto on 08/07/2011 22:09:13
Edited by: St''oto on 08/07/2011 22:05:44
Yea I'm sorry but you guys are ****ING insane. Plain and simple. Low tier items cost 1 plex? Are you serious? I don't care if this is a "trial run." Trial runs start out small and than improve. You guys are starting out with pure greed in mind. So don't even sit there and say "it's not form money, we aren't making any but we aren't even thinking about that." that's crap any you know it! Nice marketing spin but the items are doing the talking.

I know greed when I see it and you guys are a picture perfect example of it. Next thing ya know when you look up the definition of Greed in a dictionary, CCP will have their team smiling there to greet you in picture form.

If this goes through and it doesn't get improved drastically I'm done with this game. Like another individual said, if low tier CLOTHES cost more than a damn faction cruiser, there's something wrong. Horribly wrong.

EDIT: Anyone who says "well you don't have to buy it." doesn't see the point of the entire thing. It's not about whether you have to buy them or not. It's about the fact that right out of the gate the damn things are extremely overpriced and they act like it's a good thing. Which shows that CCP have given the reigns over to the suits and don't give a crap about their customers. PURE GREED.

CCP are in the running to be just as horrible as Sony is. Way to go on that one.

Telion Rethson
Posted - 2011.07.08 22:27:00 - [342]
 

OK, the good:

The underlying concept seems sound.

The bad:

Your prices are still ridiculously high, even for the 'affordable tier' items. This is simply NOT 'microtransactions'. If you want a rough guideline, look at somewhere that currently uses microtransactions for vanity items, like Star Trek Online. There, you get 500 Atari points for 4. A uniform, which can be used as a complete outfit, or broken up and bits from used separately, costs 240-280 Atari points. So, basically, you're getting a complete outfit for about 2. That is the sort of price you should at least be selling your 'affordable tier' items. Instead, going by the devblog, you're planning on selling even the lowest tier items at a price of around 18-20 for a complete outfit, or about 10 times that price.

Medidranda Livoga
Posted - 2011.07.08 22:27:00 - [343]
 

Edited by: Medidranda Livoga on 08/07/2011 22:29:33
This pricing strategy is such a fail it cannot be described. Both in terms of customer accessibility and income for you. This is a virtual asset and on top of it, clothes. Clothes are disposable items for most part, people buy tons of shirts, pants and shoes that they use maybe few times.

And here you are, asking for utterly preposterous amounts of real life cash or equivalent for pixels. Either you don`t want to sell much which is just stupid or you want to **** off people who might be interested but can actually count. It is frustrating to see repeated self-shooting on foot done here. Twisted Evil At least be honest and try to make some money if you insist on starting a system like this. Or give players a toolset to start creating and few guys/gals to do simple wetting process so nothing too explicit gets introduced.

If you want to make a "fashion online" do it properly. You need vast amounts of new products every week and low prices on most of them (sure have few expensive ones if you want). And when I say low it means somewhere around 10-20 x lower what it is now. Not hard to whip up a new shirt and pant skins.

Leil Ren'Do
Posted - 2011.07.08 22:31:00 - [344]
 

I'm speechless (well not really but close).

After all the rage, now a dev here is talking about cute high heels and awesome steampunk girl fashion.
I really don't understand it anymore.
Are there some studies that show that spaceship nerds all secretly want to play with barbies?
Is this a scheme to replace the entirety of the community with people who do care about these things?

And the pricing... How can you be serious about clothes costing as much as battleships?

This is not complicated or blurry. This is just you screwing with your current playerbase.
What thought process let you to this disaster? Because I sincerly am unable to understand and empathize with your mindset.
Maybe it's my lack of understanding of how the industry is evolving. Or maybe it's part of your launch strategy in Japan.

In any case please put some effort in educating us because from my reference I can only conlcude that you've gone insane.

Crausaum
Ixion Defence Systems
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2011.07.08 22:38:00 - [345]
 

Huh, after 8 years in EVE this is what the game comes to...

$15 for re-textures of existing polygons that you can wear in an underdeveloped single player environment.
And now I'm being told those are cheap.

Y'know CCP back when we started doing this exchange you'd give me content for my monthly fee and allow that new free content to reel in new players.

Now you remove the existing character creator and cut content only to try and charge me an extra fee when it comes back in.

You're not the same company I started doing business with and I don't think we can carry on our business relationship, the transaction is being altered to far into the favor of the business with little regard for the customer.

Bantros
Noir.
Posted - 2011.07.08 22:42:00 - [346]
 

Edited by: Bantros on 08/07/2011 22:47:17
Edited by: Bantros on 08/07/2011 22:44:13
Item pricing is fine, the range of prices will grow when more items are added.

Anyone seen the TF2 store? When it came out the hats and weapons were anything from 6 to 15 and people complained but they still sold. Funny thing is all the items drop randomly whilst playing anyway, and they can be crafted yet still people will pay good money. This happened just yesterday, that's right $1500 for a TF2 hat.

I also remember a couple of weeks after a certain update Valve flew some item contributors to their HQ and handed out cheques for like $40,000, that's a lot of sales in 2 weeks and the prices were then still quite steep.

You don't have to buy anything, but you can and you don't even have to buy with real money. I'm afraid there are many people who will pay for these items and I shall be one of them

Mara Rinn
Posted - 2011.07.08 22:44:00 - [347]
 

Originally by: St'oto
EDIT: Anyone who says "well you don't have to buy it." doesn't see the point of the entire thing. It's not about whether you have to buy them or not. It's about the fact that right out of the gate the damn things are extremely overpriced and they act like it's a good thing. Which shows that CCP have given the reigns over to the suits and don't give a crap about their customers. PURE GREED.


Pure greed as opposed to the players who demand to be able to afford vanity items regardless of how little they're willing to spend on them? PURE SENSE OF ENTITLEMENT! You don't see the point of the entire thing - these are vanity items. They are made to appeal to your sense of vanity. They're not intended to be micro transaction items to dress your space barbies.

Telion Rethson
Posted - 2011.07.08 22:57:00 - [348]
 

Originally by: Mara Rinn
Pure greed as opposed to the players who demand to be able to afford vanity items regardless of how little they're willing to spend on them? PURE SENSE OF ENTITLEMENT! You don't see the point of the entire thing - these are vanity items. They are made to appeal to your sense of vanity. They're not intended to be micro transaction items to dress your space barbies.



As I understand it, 'microtransaction items' are exactly what they're supposed to be, at least, at the lowest tier, but, going by the devblog, even these items are going to be too expensive to accurately be called microtransactions.

Myshella Drake
Caldari
Omega Exploration And Reclaimation
Posted - 2011.07.08 22:57:00 - [349]
 

This is such bull****. I was very much in support of walking in stations ever since it was first discussed. Now I feel like its just turned into a way to milk players on top of their sub while delivering less real content.

The new character creator is a very powerful tool but a lot of the content from the old one has been stripped out for more generic looking customizations. Now you will offer us back extra content at a (ridiculous) price. When will more non-NeX customizations be added? if ever.

What will come next with Walking in stations? Im looking forward to customizing my captians quarters. How much Aurum or ISK will that cost me? 3 bil for new lighing, 5 bil for a sweet leather couch? When we FINALLY get to run our own establishments Im guessing there will outrageously priced customization content there aswell. These are all things that can be classed as 'vanity'.

Personally i would be will to shell out no more than 150 mil on fully customizing my character. And i like to play dress up (sadly yes Laughing). At your current prices i could maybe buy 1 piece of clothing from the lowest of low tiers. Why bother. Your whole deluxe item scheme is quite amusing. Just shows how out of touch with your players values you really are.

Get back to the spaceships. At least you kind of knew what you were doing.




Jonathan Ferguson
JC Ferguson and Son Ltd
Ferguson Alliance
Posted - 2011.07.08 23:03:00 - [350]
 

Originally by: Crausaum
Huh, after 8 years in EVE this is what the game comes to...

$15 for re-textures of existing polygons that you can wear in an underdeveloped single player environment.
And now I'm being told those are cheap.

Y'know CCP back when we started doing this exchange you'd give me content for my monthly fee and allow that new free content to reel in new players.

Now you remove the existing character creator and cut content only to try and charge me an extra fee when it comes back in.

You're not the same company I started doing business with and I don't think we can carry on our business relationship, the transaction is being altered too far into the favor of the business with little regard for the customer.

QFT (are you sure you're in TEST?) I'd say NO regard for the customer but otherwise perfect.

St'oto
Elite Predators
Posted - 2011.07.08 23:11:00 - [351]
 

Originally by: CCP Zinfandel
We don't yet have targets for how many pieces are designed for which tier. Some of that is purely artistic freedom for the artists who design the pieces. Also, this is because we can't currently create new items as quickly as we'd like.

We are using a combination of in-house designers, outside art production, and in house art direction to make these pieces. And yes, we are hoping they can eventually pay for themselves and contribute to the EVE development budget.

But initially this is just about learning. And you'll see us doing things with prices to try to learn more.


I'm sorry but I'll believe that old guy who was talking about the rapture coming soon well before I believe "this is just about learning." This is and always will be "just about the money." That's it. You can dance around this subject all you want, but actions speak louder than words, and in this case those actions are so loud it's almost as if someone is putting a loudspeaker in my ear and saying "WE WANT YOUR MONEY!!!!!"

Andares Sol
Posted - 2011.07.08 23:13:00 - [352]
 

Well, once the macro transactions are getting micro, i might reconsider the idea.

Until that point you will see me in my grubby yellowing underpants in the to-be-programmed "Nipples & Bacon"-Pub standing at the bar and suffer my discontent. And as the player base is mostly male, all the nice female alts in underwear will also help with the immersion.

Still don't understand why AUR was necessary at all. (Which idiot came up with that name btw.? "My treasure... Muahaha!" ?!)
Instead just breaking down the 30day PLEX into a 30 * dayPLEX would have done the trick. Then you could swap a few dayPlex with a "I barbie you!" T-Shirt. Same Logic as for the loyalty store, where you can convert regular items in faction items. So instead of a separate wallet it's a comodity which can be bought, sold, shipped, lost, blown up e.t.c. You could play / mine / mission a few days. Get a few dayPlex and treat yourself with a nice Neon-Bumper-Sticker on your ship saying "I survived Jita Monoclegate!"... e.t.c.

Ah well, what do i know... Let's see how the EVE MT Betatesting turns outs in few months.

So long,
Andares Sol

P.S.: Is it just me who is "not playing the game correctly", but Wormholes, T3 Ships and Incursion were not really for me? Maybe i have to pay... ehm play another 5 years until i have the skills.

Jonathan Ferguson
JC Ferguson and Son Ltd
Ferguson Alliance
Posted - 2011.07.08 23:16:00 - [353]
 

Permit me a brief story:

The original AkJon, AkJonottawarat, was a fierce Uruk Warleader on the LOTRO server, Vilya. He was nerfed all to hell by Turbine and then they went F2P P2W and I lost all interest in that game and started playing EVE.

As you level your PVP character in LOTRO, you get progressively sexier skins that you can buy relatively cheaply for in-game PVP mission XP (Destiny points.) AkJon was one of the highest level warleaders on the server with more destiny points than I knew what to do with, but I never bought the skins. I was happy in my rank 0 skin. I don't PVP to play Barbie, I PVP for the adrenaline rush, either from the joy of victory or the agony of defeat (and I've tasted my share of both.)

tl;dr CCP: You have a very successful niche game appealing to people who want a harsh but fair sandbox game with awesome, balanced PVP, as little lag as possible, a great market system, no bots. Restore your customers' faith in the EVE we signed up for or prepare to enjoy a wonderful career in fishing/aluminum smelting.


Vandrion
Gallente
The Collective
B O R G
Posted - 2011.07.08 23:21:00 - [354]
 

Edited by: Vandrion on 08/07/2011 23:25:28
Originally by: Kuhn Arashi
Originally by: Vandrion
Originally by: Kuhn Arashi
As long as every time someone leaves station with something fancy, It shows up on their picture.

That way I know exactly who I'm gonna hold ransom YARRRR!!

All I see is the nest best thing to visible pirate implants.
now I will Know who has something worth paying ransom for not losing




Only way they go poof is if they are transporting them in the ships hold..... The only thing you get is the satisfaction of killing an idiot in $1000 pants.


If you get podded everything on you and in your head goes poof.
Even if they dont. just Seeing a billion isk monocle will make it kind of hard to not
know they can't pay a ransom.


Here you go:

Originally by: CCP Incognito
Originally by: Bienator II
The main question here is:
will i be able to take your monocle if i pod you? :)


No, clothing is destroyed when you get podded, but if you had a stack on monocle's in your cargo hold they will drop like normal.


From this thread here: Monacles or Death

Pod the fools!

Ms Michigan
Gallente
Aviation Professionals for EVE
Fusion Alliance
Posted - 2011.07.08 23:26:00 - [355]
 

Dang - in late on this one...page 12 Mad

CCP Zinfandel -

I have never seen my question answered but it was delved into back in the day when NEX was first announced.
I was wondering if you can answer the following...
For the right price...

Will it (is it currently even) possible to have items commissioned by your great artist team?

Some examples: Custom ship decals? (I have a great WW2 nose art I want on my Machariel)
Custom character skins? (I want my character to look like Albert Einstein say - can your guys use Incarna and your skills to accomplish that better?)
Custom clothes requests? (That Speedo I have been dying to wear! :)

I saw you answered someone about Users making content - how about even easier - paying in Aurum to get the stuff done by your artists?

How cool?

St'oto
Elite Predators
Posted - 2011.07.08 23:32:00 - [356]
 

Edited by: St''oto on 09/07/2011 00:11:25
Edited by: St''oto on 09/07/2011 00:10:36
Originally by: Gnulpie
Originally by: Ketaros Thunderclap
The whole point is simple, and resumes to a marvelous simple move:
- Make AUR be only bought with real money, without ANY connection with ISK.
Makes little sense. They would need to invent the wheel again, especially the trouble with accounting, billing etc. is way too high. Actually nothing useful can be gained by introducing a second, completely independent currency into EVE. Instead you have only PLEX and fractions of PLEX called Aur. They should have called it Plexicent instead of Aur though. The integration of Aur into EVE (through PLEX) is a great move and a very good thing.

Quote:
I know PLEX was a big business mistake you guys did, dont try to correct a mistake doing another.
CCP, do the math, separate real money from ISK, ASAP. I know MANY will hate me for saying this...
PLEX was the second best thing CCP ever did, the best one was GTC.

Quote:
In the last 4 years I have been a Market Player on EVE, and I know and CCP know that like me there are few other players more kidding with 3 digits billions ISK accounts, that we could be the one interested by this tyer/clothing thing, make profit or even make our avatar look cool, but I can tell right away: we are not. I know for fact thats not a game thing being placed for those like me who play EVE like a Market Tycoon.

They aren't aiming for you. They are trying to attract *shock* new players! A different kind of player, those that like dress up etc. Too difficult to understand that? Looks like.


So when are they going to *shock* fix the damn game for the players that exist within it already? Don't belittle people with the constant new player initiative. I don't care about new players if said new players and their content affect my damn experience considering I've invested 7+ years into this game already.

I understand CCP want new players. But it seems they really don't give two ****s about old players at all. Haven't for quite some time. So basically if your 1+ year old, your defacto worthless to them. They want the newbie every time. Which is absolute BS.

Zombatar
Posted - 2011.07.08 23:50:00 - [357]
 

How can CCP fail at its own game?! Guess they've stopped playing it a long time ago.

St'oto
Elite Predators
Posted - 2011.07.09 00:01:00 - [358]
 

Edited by: St''oto on 09/07/2011 00:10:09
Originally by: Mara Rinn
Originally by: St'oto
EDIT: Anyone who says "well you don't have to buy it." doesn't see the point of the entire thing. It's not about whether you have to buy them or not. It's about the fact that right out of the gate the damn things are extremely overpriced and they act like it's a good thing. Which shows that CCP have given the reigns over to the suits and don't give a crap about their customers. PURE GREED.


Pure greed as opposed to the players who demand to be able to afford vanity items regardless of how little they're willing to spend on them? PURE SENSE OF ENTITLEMENT! You don't see the point of the entire thing - these are vanity items. They are made to appeal to your sense of vanity. They're not intended to be micro transaction items to dress your space barbies.



It seems you didn't here about the fact that the NeX store is CCP's version of "microtransactions." If your a girl and wanna spend crap loads of money on useless stuff, by all means go for it. But don't patronize me for calling it like I see it. Also damn right I feel I'm entitled! This isn't a free game. Last time I checked I put $30 a month into CCP's bank account, so yes I feel entitled to an enjoyable experience instead of a buggy experience in favor of barbie and ken in space so some girls and a select few boys can gossip about how sexy joe shmoe or lisa is.

So yes I feel entitled to a functional game that I'm paying for. I'll own up to that 1,000 times over. If this game was free than I would promptly shut up. But it isn't is it? No it sure isn't. So I expect my $30 to go towards bug fixing, and meaningful new expansions along with server up keep instead of a virtual fashion model show in space. Likewise I don't expect said $30 to go towards alpha, or beta testing twilight 2.0 or Sony FPS X1,000 either. Last time I checked I didn't sign a EULA or any amount of paper work that went towards the effect of I was a beta tester, that was paying to be a beta tester, instead of being paid.

Leon Razor
Gallente
Posted - 2011.07.09 00:16:00 - [359]
 

I'm still unclear as to what the final implementation was with regard to NeX item destruction. I get that NeX items in your hanger appear when you re-customize, and NeX items don't clone jump with you. But if you are podded, say with a monocle, is that monocle destroyed? Also, are my other assumptions wrong?

Ephemeral Waves
Silver Snake Enterprise
Posted - 2011.07.09 00:18:00 - [360]
 

Originally by: CCP Zinfandel

Any questions?


When do we get the conventional - and actually functional - hanger view back?


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