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blankseplocked Stop deliberately making time sinks that are unnecessary
 
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Roosterton
Eternal Frontier
Posted - 2011.07.09 17:08:00 - [31]
 

Originally by: Valei Khurelem

WAAAAAH, HIGHSEC L4 MISSIONS R TOO HARD, PLZ IMPLEMENT THINGS TO MAKE TEM EASER AN SHORTER, THAT WAY I DONT NEED TO EVN THINK ABOUT ANTHING.


Kindly GTFO.

Valei Khurelem
Posted - 2011.07.09 17:15:00 - [32]
 

Edited by: Valei Khurelem on 09/07/2011 17:18:26
Originally by: Roosterton
Originally by: Valei Khurelem

Time sinks in missions are annoying and unnecessary.


I'm a stupid moron that can't recognise poor game design when it slaps me in the face.


fixt

Roosterton
Eternal Frontier
Posted - 2011.07.09 17:21:00 - [33]
 

Originally by: Valei Khurelem
Edited by: Valei Khurelem on 09/07/2011 17:18:26
Originally by: Roosterton
Originally by: Valei Khurelem

WAAAAAH, HIGHSEC L4 MISSIONS R TOO HARD, PLZ IMPLEMENT THINGS TO MAKE TEM EASER AN SHORTER, THAT WAY I DONT NEED TO EVN THINK ABOUT ANTHING.


I'm a person who actually has enough brain cells and patience to do things in EVE, and fits ships properly to avoid being frustrated or hindered by it.


NO U!!!!!!!!!!!


I prefer that, tbh.

Feligast
Minmatar
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.07.09 17:41:00 - [34]
 

Posting in a troll thread.

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2011.07.09 17:57:00 - [35]
 

Originally by: Valei Khurelem
It isn't balancing, it's timesinking
In other words, it is balancing ISK/h.
It is also creating variety in what you need to fit to your ship to be the most efficient.
Originally by: Valei Khurelem
Looks to me like you're just arguing for the sake of arguing,
Looks to me like you're refusing to accept available solutions that make your perceived problem a non-issue, and want to see the game changed to fix a problem that doesn't exist unless you create it for yourself.

It also looks to me like you can't really come up with a proper argument for why it's a game-design problem rather than a user error, or for why the game should be adjusted to compensate for this error, rather than the user correcting his mistake to make the error go away.
Quote:
stop trying to maintain the status quo.
…says the guy who refuses to accept that static cookie-cutter fits aren't universally applicable.

Aeropride
Posted - 2011.07.09 21:32:00 - [36]
 

Originally by: Valei Khurelem
Looks to me like you're just arguing for the sake of arguing, stop trying to maintain the status quo.


good luck with your mission. EVE is a masochists game and for many its all they got in life. Good luck getting anything changed.

Shieko Chan
Posted - 2011.07.09 23:00:00 - [37]
 

we could have mages open portals into mission and to other systems... sic.

Everything should have a time sink attached to it. Lets face it, if you were trying to do any of this stuff in real life all of it would take hundreds of thousands of hours longer...probably more.




Valei Khurelem
Posted - 2011.07.10 03:07:00 - [38]
 

Edited by: Valei Khurelem on 10/07/2011 03:09:11
Oh here we go, the 'this game is for intelligent and patient people' argument in EVE, never saw that one coming.

You guys do realise that in your vain efforts to troll this thread all you're doing is repeatedly bumping it to the top? I'm not going to stop just because of two or three *******s just to stop anything in EVE from getting changed.

I bet you're the type of people who don't want gatecamping fixed and to have more tactics used in PvP aren't you?

Roosterton
Eternal Frontier
Posted - 2011.07.10 03:32:00 - [39]
 

Originally by: Valei Khurelem
Edited by: Valei Khurelem on 10/07/2011 03:09:11
Oh here we go, the 'this game is for intelligent and patient people' argument in EVE, never saw that one coming.

You guys do realise that in your vain efforts to troll this thread all you're doing is repeatedly bumping it to the top? I'm not going to stop just because of two or three *******s just to stop anything in EVE from getting changed.

I bet you're the type of people who don't want gatecamping fixed and to have more tactics used in PvP aren't you?


If you think gatecamping is the only tactic used in PVP... Oh man... Laughing

And yup, it's true, EVE is for intelligent and patient people. You're neither. Leave if you dislike it.

Valei Khurelem
Posted - 2011.07.10 03:40:00 - [40]
 

Edited by: Valei Khurelem on 10/07/2011 03:41:29
Oh wait, but of course, you guys must be pro! Do you use can flipping and war dec 1 man or small gang corps because you won't fight someone on an even basis?

You're so cool! :)

Roosterton
Eternal Frontier
Posted - 2011.07.10 04:27:00 - [41]
 

Originally by: Valei Khurelem
Edited by: Valei Khurelem on 10/07/2011 03:41:29
Oh wait, but of course, you guys must be pro! Do you use can flipping and war dec 1 man or small gang corps because you won't fight someone on an even basis?

You're so cool! :)


Most of my fights are solo in lowsec/nullsec, which typically end with me being blobbed horribly. Of course, you're too unintelligent and impatient to do a simple killboard check and realize that, which just goes to prove my point.

Please, continue.

Valei Khurelem
Posted - 2011.07.10 04:31:00 - [42]
 

And yet you're trying to justify the way EVE works even though you acknowledge the problems with it, how interesting.

Woodman2
Posted - 2011.07.10 04:47:00 - [43]
 

It's already been pointed out that if you had fitted your ship correctly, and perhaps read the mission guide ahead of time, you wouldn't need to warp out and have to retrace your steps.

Valei Khurelem
Posted - 2011.07.10 05:04:00 - [44]
 

Originally by: Woodman2
It's already been pointed out that if you had fitted your ship correctly, and perhaps read the mission guide ahead of time, you wouldn't need to warp out and have to retrace your steps.


Yes and it's already been pointed out that fitting afterburners and microwarp drives don't solve the issue.

Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
Posted - 2011.07.10 08:48:00 - [45]
 

Originally by: Tippia
make this particular obstacle a non-issue,


Yeah wasting time is such a useful obsticle. Rolling Eyes

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2011.07.10 10:14:00 - [46]
 

Originally by: Valei Khurelem
Yes and it's already been pointed out that fitting afterburners and microwarp drives don't solve the issue.
Of course it does. All that has been pointed out is that you don't want to try the solutions that are already available. And you have claimed that ABs and MWDs won't solve anything, but you haven't presented any kind of reasoning for why this is the case.

I could point out that your nose is green — does this mean it's green?
Originally by: Adunh Slavy
Yeah wasting time is such a useful obsticle. Rolling Eyes
It's as "useful" as the NPCs having guns and hitpoints. Those are time wasters too — why aren't you complaining about that?

Valei Khurelem
Posted - 2011.07.10 10:22:00 - [47]
 

Edited by: Valei Khurelem on 10/07/2011 10:24:06
Please stop trying to give me a turd and claim it's chocolate.

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2011.07.10 10:28:00 - [48]
 

Originally by: Valei Khurelem
Please stop trying to give me a turd and claim it's chocolate.
So you can't explain why an AB or MWD won't solve your problem, I take it?

Valei Khurelem
Posted - 2011.07.10 10:38:00 - [49]
 

Edited by: Valei Khurelem on 10/07/2011 10:39:09
No, the problem is, that it's a solution to a problem that shouldn't exist in the first place, which has been the whole point of this thread that you failed to miss.

Also, you do realise that the more you troll me the more attention this thread is going to get? Thanks for the free advertisement :)

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2011.07.10 10:45:00 - [50]
 

Originally by: Valei Khurelem
No, the problem is, that it's a solution to a problem that shouldn't exist in the first place,
Why not? Again, it is no different from rats having guns and hitpoints — why aren't you complaining about that?

In fact, why is it a "problem" to begin with?
Quote:
which has been the whole point of this thread that you failed to miss.
It's hard to miss with you repeating it so often, but you still haven't explained why it's a problem and what's so horrid about fitting an AB and an MWD?

Why are you so against variety in the gameplay? Why do you want everything to be the same?

Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
Posted - 2011.07.10 12:07:00 - [51]
 

Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Adunh Slavy
Yeah wasting time is such a useful obsticle. Rolling Eyes
It's as "useful" as the NPCs having guns and hitpoints. Those are time wasters too — why aren't you complaining about that?


Apples and Oranges

Valei Khurelem
Posted - 2011.07.10 12:32:00 - [52]
 

Edited by: Valei Khurelem on 10/07/2011 12:36:52
Edited by: Valei Khurelem on 10/07/2011 12:33:57
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Valei Khurelem
No, the problem is, that it's a solution to a problem that shouldn't exist in the first place,
Why not? Again, it is no different from rats having guns and hitpoints — why aren't you complaining about that?

In fact, why is it a "problem" to begin with?
Quote:
which has been the whole point of this thread that you failed to miss.
It's hard to miss with you repeating it so often, but you still haven't explained why it's a problem and what's so horrid about fitting an AB and an MWD?

Why are you so against variety in the gameplay? Why do you want everything to be the same?


Why don't you get it? It isn't variety, it's a timesink, if it were varied, then it would have lots of different scenarios, you'd have different types of NPCs coming to attack you, interesting dialogue, story, settings.

The reason they put in things like acceleration gates is purely to give an illusion of variety, that's why I call CCP lazy and why I call any developer who uses these kind of tactics lazy. As for the guns and hitpoints on rats, that's part of the gameplay mechanics, that's the way the game works but what they have added in missions is completely unnecessary.

Rats take less than five seconds to blow up, having to go to acceleration gates 40 odd kilometres away takes about one or two minutes, in Empire Total War, you'd have turns lasting that long because of how badly the game was optomised but CCP have added this in by choice because they know otherwise that players would be spending less time on missions! It may not seem a big deal to someone logging in after being out of the game for several months, but when you try playing the game for an hour or so it begins to wear thin.

Ray Parez
Posted - 2011.07.10 15:41:00 - [53]
 

From the standpoint of RP science, deadspace pockets are areas of gravitational flux, meaning you cannot lock onto them with a conventional warp drive. there just isn't enough of a gravity well to get the exact coordinates. The acceleration gate plants the exact coordinates into your warp drive, allowing you to go to the exact point of a deadspace pocket. However, your complaint is also about bookmarks. while there is no direct explanation, I would assume that your computer cannot find the point you are looking for because of said natural phenomena.


Veronica Kerrigan
Minmatar
Hand Of Midas
F0RCEFUL ENTRY
Posted - 2011.07.10 15:44:00 - [54]
 

Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Valei Khurelem
It isn't balancing, it's timesinking
In other words, it is balancing ISK/h.
It is also creating variety in what you need to fit to your ship to be the most efficient.
Originally by: Valei Khurelem
Looks to me like you're just arguing for the sake of arguing,
Looks to me like you're refusing to accept available solutions that make your perceived problem a non-issue, and want to see the game changed to fix a problem that doesn't exist unless you create it for yourself.

It also looks to me like you can't really come up with a proper argument for why it's a game-design problem rather than a user error, or for why the game should be adjusted to compensate for this error, rather than the user correcting his mistake to make the error go away.
Quote:
stop trying to maintain the status quo.
…says the guy who refuses to accept that static cookie-cutter fits aren't universally applicable.


QFT

Valei Khurelem
Posted - 2011.07.10 16:02:00 - [55]
 

Well excuse me for appreciating creativity and originality in a game.

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2011.07.10 17:54:00 - [56]
 

Originally by: Adunh Slavy
Apples and Oranges
Not really, no.
They have lots of guns, so you need to devote slots to something other than damage-dealing mods, which slows you down — a time sink.
Some have lots of (E)HP, so you need to use more time shooing them — a time sink.
In some missions, there are a lot of rats, so you need to use more time shooting them — a time sink.
In some missions, they are far away, so you need to fly there or fit low-damage/long-range weapons, which means you need to use more time shooting them — a time sink.
In some missions, you need to travel between gates while shooting the NPCs — a time sink.

Why is only the last one bad (especially since, if your ship is properly fitted, it doesn't actually waste any time)?
Originally by: Valei Khurelem
Why don't you get it? It isn't variety, it's a timesink, if it were varied, then it would have lots of different scenarios, you'd have different types of NPCs coming to attack you, interesting dialogue, story, settings.
Again, it is only a time sink if you refuse to adapt to the varying circumstances. Each mission will present you with a mix of the variables mentioned above, all of which increase your time to complete the mission. Why is only one of those variables bad and not the rest?
Quote:
The reason they put in things like acceleration gates is purely to give an illusion of variety
Actually, the reason they put in things like acceleration gates is so that you get to experience different vistas or "arenas" with varying appearance. They can also be used to mix up (create variation in) what you need to fit to your ship. So where's the illusion?
Quote:
having to go to acceleration gates 40 odd kilometres away takes about one or two minutes
…which means that they're not actually taking up any time, since you can spend that minute blowing up the rats. And no, you don't clear a room in 5 seconds.
Originally by: Valei Khurelem
Well excuse me for appreciating creativity and originality in a game.
That would be believable if it weren't for the fact that you're arguing for them to remove things that require you to be a bit creative and original in your fit and to give you various options for how you want to attack the situation. Instead, you're arguing for everything being solved with the same set of tools — the complete opposite of creativity and originality.

Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
Posted - 2011.07.10 19:51:00 - [57]
 

Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Adunh Slavy
Apples and Oranges
Not really, no.
They have lots of guns, so you need to devote slots to something other than damage-dealing mods, which slows you down — a time sink.
Some have lots of (E)HP, so you need to use more time shooing them — a time sink.
In some missions, there are a lot of rats, so you need to use more time shooting them — a time sink.
In some missions, they are far away, so you need to fly there or fit low-damage/long-range weapons, which means you need to use more time shooting them — a time sink.
In some missions, you need to travel between gates while shooting the NPCs — a time sink.

Why is only the last one bad (especially since, if your ship is properly fitted, it doesn't actually waste any time)?



That you have to equivocate such, exposes the apples and the oranges. People go into the missions to shoot the rats, regardless of how many HP they have for the rewards and the loot, and the 'fun' (as if they aren't boring enough already). They don't go into missions to slow bat 40-60km between gates.

We should bring back WTZ then? Because your war targets have lots of tank, so WTZ should be removed. No? Ok then, never mind.

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2011.07.10 20:02:00 - [58]
 

Originally by: Adunh Slavy
That you have to equivocate such, exposes the apples and the oranges.
What's evasive about it?
It demonstrates a pattern of how "it wastes time" applies to everything in a mission.

And the question remains: why is only one of those things bad (especially considering that, if your ship is properly fitted, doesn't actually waste any time)?
Quote:
People go into the missions to shoot the rats, regardless of how many HP they have for the rewards and the loot, and the 'fun' (as if they aren't boring enough already). They don't go into missions to slow bat 40-60km between gates.
Really? I go into the missions to make money. Gates mean I get more money, just like how more HP means I get more money, just like how more guns or more ships mean I get more money.
Quote:
We should bring back WTZ then?
WTZ is already here, no need to bring it back.

Valei Khurelem
Posted - 2011.07.11 04:11:00 - [59]
 

Edited by: Valei Khurelem on 11/07/2011 04:11:26
I've been saying it for days now in this thread why it's a bad idea and I gave you a decent explanation when you kept pressing the issue even after I already gave one at the beginning, if you don't get it after being told a dozen times stop posting and save face please.

Delta Bacat
Posted - 2011.07.11 07:01:00 - [60]
 

10/10


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