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blankseplocked CNR: Caldari Navy Cruise Launchers vs T2
 
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Moonduste
Posted - 2011.07.07 15:26:00 - [1]
 

I see a lot of fits with both, and confused to a degree.

the Caldari Navy Launchers seem superior (ROF, How much they hold, etc). The fury Tech II missiles seem to have too big of an explosion radius/slow explosion speed and would require a TP to even do full damage to most battle ships(?)

Could someone who cares to explain me show me the math to justify, I just want to understand the underlying justification between caldari navy launchers + faction ammo vs t2 launchers + fury.

Paladia Haberdash
Posted - 2011.07.07 15:32:00 - [2]
 

The techII launchers are better because of the Secondary Skill required (Cruise Missile Specialization) which will give you a 2% bonus per level to the rate of fire on the tech II launcher. So It ends up having a faster rate of fire then the faction launchers.

Moonduste
Posted - 2011.07.07 15:40:00 - [3]
 

Hrm..Kinda..

tech 2 launcher is 17.6
caldari is 15.4

90% of 17.6 is 15.84

Although it does make it very close, the Caldari Navy launcher still seems faster and can fire more before reloading.

I guess the underlying question is, are rage cruise missiles worth it for missions? I'm concerned that speed/explosion will be to low/high.


Lugalzagezi666
Posted - 2011.07.07 15:54:00 - [4]
 

Edited by: Lugalzagezi666 on 07/07/2011 15:57:34
Damage difference is around 60 dps betwen furies from t2 launchers and faction cruises from faction launchers. Furies are viable against battleships and bcs /assuming you use rigor rigs + tp/.

If you already have cruise spec, use t2. If its worth spending 15d+ of training its up to you.

E: dont forget that 7 faction launchers make you juicier target for suicide gankers.

Moonduste
Posted - 2011.07.07 16:12:00 - [5]
 

Interesting. I recently lost my Golem after a power outage so I'm in a CNR now. I had tech 2 launchers on the Golem, I just couldnt affored to buy a new one and fit it, so I'm not sure if I'm going to 'stay' in the CNR for long or just trying to grind my way up to buying a golem. Since I just started an alt account and everyone swears the Noctis is such a good alt salvager, I'm a bit conflicted in what to do. If I stay with the CNR for long, going from cruise 4 (current) to tech II's would be a good investment of time. If not, then id go back to the Golem when I have the isk to do so.

I suppose a CNR with furies + a noctis would probably clear most missions out about as fast as a golem (?) since I found myself having to use javelins on the golem quite often....

Cipher Jones
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.07.07 16:15:00 - [6]
 

The real question is do you feel like switching ammo, and paying for faction ammo. If you don't feel like switching ammo while playing and can afford faction ammo, faction is the way to go. Mission completion time is the real issue here, not paper DPS.

Moonduste
Posted - 2011.07.07 16:20:00 - [7]
 

Well, drones handle the frigs. So if fury missiles are better than faction on BCs and BS, and about equal on Cruisers and they are cheaper, would I ever have to switch ammo using them either?

I suppose the main down side is the flight time is 18 seconds vs 20 but that hardly seems like an issue with cruise missiles..

Lugalzagezi666
Posted - 2011.07.07 16:20:00 - [8]
 

Then try cnr with faction launchers and if you decide to keep it, train t2 cruises.

Cipher Jones
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.07.07 16:34:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Moonduste
Well, drones handle the frigs. So if fury missiles are better than faction on BCs and BS, and about equal on Cruisers and they are cheaper, would I ever have to switch ammo using them either?

I suppose the main down side is the flight time is 18 seconds vs 20 but that hardly seems like an issue with cruise missiles..


With T2 Wrath cruise and 1 tp I can 2 shot a Serpentis BC. Same with Faction ammo/launchers. With the same setup + 2 SW-900 drones and 3 tp-300 drones, I can 1 shot it with either type of ammo or missile.

But with anything smaller the faction ammo can hit harder than the fury, kill it in at least one less pass, sometimes 2. But the fury only saves you 1-2 passes on battleships so while your DPS with furies is higher, misison completion time remains the same, but without the hassle of switching.

With 2 target painters you can run furies all day w/o switching but it will cost you a few passes on smaller ships, especially elite cruisers.

Moonduste
Posted - 2011.07.07 16:43:00 - [10]
 

To Why I Dont Just Try Both: I dont want to throw down the isk to try our caldari cruise launchers without the forum opinions. If i was made out of isk, sure I would just try it myself. Since I'm not, I'm relying on the community for the help (thank you btw!).

As to the passes required for a BS to a C, this is something I'm noticing more and more as I get into better fits/ships. It makes me think I almost should have just gone down the Vargur route instead of shooting for a Golem for that reason (smaller and more granular damage vs big salvos).

So it sounds like faction ammo is in general better, and does not require the use of TP's to reach its damage potential, and the faction launchers seem better albeit potentially not enough to justify the cost.

Guess I'll need to compare t2 ammo vs faction ammo costs next.


Moonduste
Posted - 2011.07.07 17:57:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Cipher Jones
Originally by: Moonduste
Well, drones handle the frigs. So if fury missiles are better than faction on BCs and BS, and about equal on Cruisers and they are cheaper, would I ever have to switch ammo using them either?

I suppose the main down side is the flight time is 18 seconds vs 20 but that hardly seems like an issue with cruise missiles..


With T2 Wrath cruise and 1 tp I can 2 shot a Serpentis BC. Same with Faction ammo/launchers. With the same setup + 2 SW-900 drones and 3 tp-300 drones, I can 1 shot it with either type of ammo or missile.

But with anything smaller the faction ammo can hit harder than the fury, kill it in at least one less pass, sometimes 2. But the fury only saves you 1-2 passes on battleships so while your DPS with furies is higher, misison completion time remains the same, but without the hassle of switching.

With 2 target painters you can run furies all day w/o switching but it will cost you a few passes on smaller ships, especially elite cruisers.


note: if your salvo kills are for the most part the same, but faction launchers are A) slightly faster, even with cruise missile spec B) store more ammo, wouldnt your completion time be better because you are firing slightly more often/reloading slightly less often?

Curiosity: how big of a draw are full faction launchers to suicide gankers? I've never been 'suicide ganked' so kinda curios how much is paranoia.

Cipher Jones
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.07.07 18:13:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Moonduste
Originally by: Cipher Jones
Originally by: Moonduste
Well, drones handle the frigs. So if fury missiles are better than faction on BCs and BS, and about equal on Cruisers and they are cheaper, would I ever have to switch ammo using them either?

I suppose the main down side is the flight time is 18 seconds vs 20 but that hardly seems like an issue with cruise missiles..


With T2 Wrath cruise and 1 tp I can 2 shot a Serpentis BC. Same with Faction ammo/launchers. With the same setup + 2 SW-900 drones and 3 tp-300 drones, I can 1 shot it with either type of ammo or missile.

But with anything smaller the faction ammo can hit harder than the fury, kill it in at least one less pass, sometimes 2. But the fury only saves you 1-2 passes on battleships so while your DPS with furies is higher, misison completion time remains the same, but without the hassle of switching.

With 2 target painters you can run furies all day w/o switching but it will cost you a few passes on smaller ships, especially elite cruisers.


note: if your salvo kills are for the most part the same, but faction launchers are A) slightly faster, even with cruise missile spec B) store more ammo, wouldnt your completion time be better because you are firing slightly more often/reloading slightly less often?

Curiosity: how big of a draw are full faction launchers to suicide gankers? I've never been 'suicide ganked' so kinda curios how much is paranoia.


Yes, but not enough to make a real difference in bounty ticks over the course of an hour, or complete an extra mission in a single sitting. I think if someone was really really hardcore about it and ran missions for about 4 hours they could squeeze an extra mission in. I don't do missions for hours at a time anymore.

Lugalzagezi666
Posted - 2011.07.07 18:32:00 - [13]
 

It is enough to make difference, but you have to learn when to reload missiles /turn off autoreload/. Or use 2 tps so you wont lose volleys on cruisers. Still bigger alpha helps alot vs defenders so you dont have to shoot additional volley.

7x faction launchers on cnr dont attract gankers much, but when you add 4 cn bcus, deadspace booster, sba...

I would suggest you to go for t2 cruises, but there really isnt any role for them outside pve so its up to you if its worth your training time.

FT Diomedes
Gallente
Factio Paucorum
Posted - 2011.07.07 18:49:00 - [14]
 

I recently sold the CN launchers from my CNR and NH. When I got them, the choice was between Arbalests and faction. Now I have the skills to use T2 (Spec to IV), I don't see a reason to use the more expensive launchers. I'd rather use that ISK on a nicer SB and be able to fit more TPs.

For what it's worth, I use my Golem or my Tengu a lot more than the CNR.

Moonduste
Posted - 2011.07.07 19:37:00 - [15]
 

Golem seems the ideal. Its what im trained for. Alas I cant affored it just yet. That said CNR + Noctis seems to give the golem a big run for its money...


Tau Cabalander
Posted - 2011.07.07 20:36:00 - [16]
 

Edited by: Tau Cabalander on 07/07/2011 20:38:58

I have CN launchers on my CNR.

I use them because they are better than T2 launchers when using T1 ammo. T1 ammo also doesn't really need a target painter with rigor rigs (T2 + 2 T1), but T2 Fury does, so it frees a mid slot for an AB.

I don't use faction ammo in them. Never needed to.

[Raven Navy Issue, Current]
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Signal Amplifier II

Caldari Navy Photon Scattering Field
Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field
Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field
Gist X-Type 100MN Afterburner
Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 800
Dread Guristas X-Large Shield Booster

Small Tractor Beam I
Caldari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher, Paradise Cruise Missile
Caldari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher, Paradise Cruise Missile
Caldari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher, Paradise Cruise Missile
Caldari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher, Paradise Cruise Missile
Caldari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher, Paradise Cruise Missile
Caldari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher, Paradise Cruise Missile
Caldari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher, Paradise Cruise Missile

Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I


Hobgoblin II x5
Hammerhead II x5
Warrior II x5

Paikis
Red Federation
Posted - 2011.07.08 01:01:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Moonduste
Golem seems the ideal. Its what im trained for. Alas I cant affored it just yet. That said CNR + Noctis seems to give the golem a big run for its money...




This just in, 2 ships are better than 1!

Except if you're using a CNR+Noctis, then Im going to use 2x Golems and run 2x missions (cos Im a ninja) and make more ISK than you.

Moonduste
Posted - 2011.07.08 01:06:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Lugalzagezi666
It is enough to make difference, but you have to learn when to reload missiles /turn off autoreload/. Or use 2 tps so you wont lose volleys on cruisers. Still bigger alpha helps alot vs defenders so you dont have to shoot additional volley.

7x faction launchers on cnr dont attract gankers much, but when you add 4 cn bcus, deadspace booster, sba...

I would suggest you to go for t2 cruises, but there really isnt any role for them outside pve so its up to you if its worth your training time.


Auto reload is bad..?

FT Diomedes
Gallente
Factio Paucorum
Posted - 2011.07.08 03:48:00 - [19]
 

Auto reload isn't bad, but sometimes you need to plan to reload a little bit earlier or you give the rat the chance to repair some HP while you reload.


 

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