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Shellback Wilson
Posted - 2011.07.06 23:06:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Shellback Wilson on 06/07/2011 23:09:43
Sorry I don't understand the game well and have not purused the forums much. I realize the answers I'm looking for may be there and that I'm asking old tired Q's

I have been trying to like this game. It appeals but not knowing what I'm doing makes it seem dumb at times. I rolled a toon and of course skilled it up everywhere but finally focused on Mining Ore. I get into cruisers and am doing it ok for a 2 week player and making credits but then out of the blue my Cruiser gets blown up.

So now I now what PVP is like.

I quit the game for a few days cause it was my only ship but got back in spent all the credits I had and refitted a new one. I also added a second account thinking I'd fly cover and haul ore.

Well I had the system working well but when I had flown my DPS cruiser back to switch to freight my mining cruiser gets blown up.

That was all said just to prefece my question and here it is:

Am I doing something wrong or is that the way it goes when you go down the path to be a miner when new?

(I'm not complaining or whining about being blown up, I don't know enough about the game to complain. He actually made me laugh the first time. I was getting bored moving ore from hold to jetcan and the explosion was kinda exciting. This second time was a 'dumb' feeling... Am I gonna have to replace cruisers every three days?)

Leetha Layne
Posted - 2011.07.06 23:11:00 - [2]
 

How did your mining cruiser get blown up?

Generals4
Caldari
Posted - 2011.07.06 23:17:00 - [3]
 

This intrigues me. Are you mining in low/null sec or in high sec?
And if it is in high sec, did you get can flipped and did you than aggress?

Coruso Malefactor
Posted - 2011.07.06 23:26:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: Shellback Wilson
Am I doing something wrong or is that the way it goes when you go down the path to be a miner when new?


As a miner/industrialist you will get wrecked for no other reason than someone felt it. You will be a target for one simple fact: PvPers like fights they know they can win. As a miner you are an easy target. If you want to continue to mine get in a corp and surround yourself with people that can fight.

Shellback Wilson
Posted - 2011.07.07 00:41:00 - [5]
 

Edited by: Shellback Wilson on 07/07/2011 00:43:47
I looked at the first blown up but not the second. It was a battleship and a guy named Tomby. He appeared red suddenly and fired a single weapon and I was dead in not long. I didn't try to warp. The second time I was ready for him and had warped seconds after he appeared and didn't get to warp or was prevented from warping ( I don't know which)

I am in .6 Space Haatom or Hattomy? I can't remember.

I went there because I was being can flipped every time I tried mining else where and I had picked up some GSC's

I wish I could be more clear. My question reiterated is should I expect this or can I do something to prevent? Or probbaly you guys will know the question I should be asking.



Llambda
Space Llama Industries
Posted - 2011.07.07 00:43:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Coruso Malefactor
Originally by: Shellback Wilson
Am I doing something wrong or is that the way it goes when you go down the path to be a miner when new?


As a miner/industrialist you will get wrecked for no other reason than someone felt it. You will be a target for one simple fact: PvPers like fights they know they can win. As a miner you are an easy target. If you want to continue to mine get in a corp and surround yourself with people that can fight.



Rolling Eyes

You're probably doing something wrong, but you haven't given enough information to say what, exactly.

Shellback Wilson
Posted - 2011.07.07 00:46:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Llambda
Originally by: Coruso Malefactor
Originally by: Shellback Wilson
Am I doing something wrong or is that the way it goes when you go down the path to be a miner when new?


As a miner/industrialist you will get wrecked for no other reason than someone felt it. You will be a target for one simple fact: PvPers like fights they know they can win. As a miner you are an easy target. If you want to continue to mine get in a corp and surround yourself with people that can fight.



Rolling Eyes

You're probably doing something wrong, but you haven't given enough information to say what, exactly.




Yeah I figured as much. So much happend in so short a time I didn't get it all. I was mining. Somthing red in a square showed up. I locked a target, alarms went off, I was in a pod.

I think I can psot the log wait!

Shellback Wilson
Posted - 2011.07.07 00:49:00 - [8]
 

This is the first one. I did nothing but watched it happen:
2011.07.01 16:37:00

Victim: Polywog Wilson
Corp: State Protectorate
Alliance: Unknown
Faction: Caldari State
Destroyed: Osprey
System: Haatomo
Security: 0.6
Damage Taken: 2900

Involved parties:

Name: Tommbo (laid the final blow)
Security: 3.6
Corp: Quantum Cats Syndicate
Alliance: NONE
Faction: Gallente Federation
Ship: Cyclone
Weapon: 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II
Damage Done: 2900

Destroyed items:

Veldspar, Qty: 516 (Cargo)
Miner II, Qty: 3
Expanded Cargohold I, Qty: 2

Dropped items:

Upgraded 'Limos' Standard Missile Bay I
Guristas Bloodclaw Light Missile, Qty: 356 (Cargo)
Survey Scanner II
Guristas Bloodclaw Light Missile, Qty: 44
Expanded Cargohold I
Dread Guristas Small Shield Booster


This is the 2nd I tried to warp out but didn't:

2011.07.06 22:42:00

Victim: Polywog Wilson
Corp: State Protectorate
Alliance: Unknown
Faction: Caldari State
Destroyed: Osprey
System: Haatomo
Security: 0.6
Damage Taken: 2921

Involved parties:

Name: Tommbo (laid the final blow)
Security: 3.6
Corp: Quantum Cats Syndicate
Alliance: NONE
Faction: Gallente Federation
Ship: Cyclone
Weapon: Caldari Navy Widowmaker Heavy Missile
Damage Done: 2921

Name: Guristas Invader / Guristas
Damage Done: 0

Destroyed items:

Bloodclaw Light Missile, Qty: 38
Expanded Cargohold II, Qty: 2
Miner II, Qty: 2
TE-2100 Standard Missile Bay
Medium Semiconductor Memory Cell I
Piranha Light Missile, Qty: 589 (Cargo)
Expanded Cargohold I

Dropped items:

Miner II
Survey Scanner I



gfldex
Posted - 2011.07.07 00:54:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Shellback Wilson

Corp: State Protectorate



If a recruitment sergeant is offering you some spiced wine, do you take it?

Go and read the fine print you placed your sign under.

Shellback Wilson
Posted - 2011.07.07 01:02:00 - [10]
 

Edited by: Shellback Wilson on 07/07/2011 01:08:07
Edited by: Shellback Wilson on 07/07/2011 01:04:04
Edited by: Shellback Wilson on 07/07/2011 01:02:56
Originally by: gfldex
Originally by: Shellback Wilson

Corp: State Protectorate



If a recruitment sergeant is offering you some spiced wine, do you take it?

Go and read the fine print you placed your sign under.


That sounds profound but I don't know what it means.I'm not trying to sound pathetic so people will pitty and help me but I don't understand that.


Oh hell the link. I got it thanks. My brain fried trying to comprehend it.



I need to get out of the NPC Corp....?

Tau Cabalander
Posted - 2011.07.07 01:14:00 - [11]
 

Edited by: Tau Cabalander on 07/07/2011 01:33:08

Go into your ESC options. I think in General. Turn OFF automatic target back (set number of targets to 0).

Now go and mine.

If someone steals from your jetcan they will go red to you. IGNORE THEM. Do not target them. Do not talk to them in local. Leaving the area is a good idea.

If they blow-up your ship, there is nothing you can do, but CONCORD will destroy them as a penalty.

OPTIONAL: This is highly dangerous and risky!

1. Bookmark the jetcan before you leave.
2. Return to the station and hop into an industrial (Amarr Bestower is the largest industrial at skill levels 1-3, and takes 1 day to train even if you are not Amarrian).
3. Return to the jetcan using the bookmark you made.
4. If there is nobody around, move so that the jetcan is between you and the station, and you are a few km from the jetcan. DON'T TOUCH THE YELLOW JETCAN YET!
5. Align to the station (click on the station and use the approach button) and wait for your speed to be 75% of max.
6. Open the can and grab the ore and IMMEDIATELY hit the dock button for the station. With luck you will get away with the ore.
7. Stay docked for 15 minutes, until the timer at the top left goes away.

I otherwise recommend:

* Mining in systems where the number of people in local is less than the number of asteroid belts. Easy to find in Amarr space, probably impossible to find in Caldari space.

* If you use a jetcan, accept that at some point somebody will flip the can and steal your ore. Write it off as the cost of using a jetcan to mine.

* Join a corp and mine with friends, especially one that does the hauling for you.

* Start a second account to haul if you want to mine solo and not be bothered with jetcan flippers. However, you will still be subject to suicide attacks.

* Don't mine unles you enjoy it. There are better ways to earn ISK (like missions).

Macks Artilius
Posted - 2011.07.07 03:28:00 - [12]
 

Edited by: Macks Artilius on 07/07/2011 03:31:26
Originally by: Shellback Wilson
Edited by: Shellback Wilson on 07/07/2011 00:43:47
I looked at the first blown up but not the second. It was a battleship and a guy named Tomby. He appeared red suddenly and fired a single weapon and I was dead in not long. I didn't try to warp. The second time I was ready for him and had warped seconds after he appeared and didn't get to warp or was prevented from warping ( I don't know which)

I am in .6 Space Haatom or Hattomy? I can't remember.

I went there because I was being can flipped every time I tried mining else where and I had picked up some GSC's

I wish I could be more clear. My question reiterated is should I expect this or can I do something to prevent? Or probbaly you guys will know the question I should be asking.



Yeah, still not enough info here, one of three things could have happened:

A. You were suicide ganked

B. You were baited into aggressing him so he had kill rights

C. Your corp is in a war

A is unlikely. Suicide gankers count on losing their ships, usually because the prize is worth it. He would have blown your ship up in one shot, and then been taken out by Concorde. If he was really in a battleship, he can't have made more money off blowing you up than you lost. Small comfort I know, but he can't afford to do that too many times.

B is the most likely. If you were jetcan mining you could have been "can flipped". He will take the ore from your can (giving you kill rights) and then put it back in. Then when you take "his" ore, he gets kill rights on you.

C you should really just know. If your corp didn't tell you they were in a war before you joined, they're probably not a very good corp.

Whether or not you should "expect this" depends on what actually happened. Certainly you will lose the occasional ship, even in high-sec. If you're at war, you should definitely expect to be attacked, and should only mine with backup nearby. If you were can-flipped, you can definitely expect people to try this again. Search can-flipping on google, and learn not to fall for it again. Suicide gankers are either doing it "for the lulz", in which case you just got unlucky (not many players can afford to throw away battleships just for the hell of it), but more likely they're after a payoff from your corp; ask around in corp chat to see if he's asked for a ransom. If this is the case, he will come back. Add him to your watch list, that way you get a little popup telling you when he comes online. Also, give him a "terrible" standing so that he appears red on your overview. When you see a red warp in, warp out immediately. DO NOT AFK MINE.

This is why I mainly fly combat missions. As a miner, you will get picked on and on top of it all, your ship will be weak enough to be blown up in one hit (suicide ganked) if they bring the right fitting.

Evil piemaker
Posted - 2011.07.07 03:40:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Shellback Wilson

Faction: Caldari State
Faction: Gallente Federation




Time for laughs/moans? I'm not at all into FW.
Isn't that a clue. I can't remember I've seen "Faction" on my numerous lossmails.

It just seemed weird that someone would suicide the poor guy twice in short time, unless ofc he did somehthing really stupid and it wasn't suiciding at all.

OK, let lose the hounds of EVE-O.

Llambda
Space Llama Industries
Posted - 2011.07.07 03:59:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Shellback Wilson


I need to get out of the NPC Corp....?


That particular NPC corp, yes. That should solve your problem.

Baneken
Gallente
The New Knighthood
Apocalypse Now.
Posted - 2011.07.07 04:31:00 - [15]
 

Faction warfare is a state of permanent wardec between 4 empire factions where players of 4 factions can shoot each other with impunity.

As you've joined to caldari side of FW (state protectorate) this means anyone else belonging to one of the 4 "faction warfare npc-corps" or on a player run FW-corp can shoot you freely; even those who are supposed to be on 'your side'.

So a simple solution is to get the hell out of that FW-corp and find a newbie friendly player corp since it seems you won't survive long in this game on your own.

Morae
Posted - 2011.07.07 05:00:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Baneken


As you've joined to caldari side of FW (state protectorate) this means anyone else belonging to one of the 4 "faction warfare npc-corps" or on a player run FW-corp can shoot you freely; even those who are supposed to be on 'your side'.




No.

Qalm Anity
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
Posted - 2011.07.07 07:16:00 - [17]
 

Edited by: Qalm Anity on 07/07/2011 07:17:38
Hey, also somewhat new to Eve myself. My experience is vastly different than yours and I've been having a pretty decent time, so thought I'd share some resources I've found.

1) Eve University. If you're set on mining, they will likely be of more help to you than the forums thus far. It's a corporation put together by players for players, specifically new players like yourself. They have a great video series which I couldn't find right away. Maybe an Eve University representative will see this and provide a link for you. Some links I found that you may find interesting:
Short Eve University Recruitment Video
How to apply to Eve University and some basic info
A link to some of their public classes with helpful info
They also provide pvp classes. I have not personally attended Eve University, but understand they are very helpful for new players.

2) Agony Unleashed. A 0.0 Corp that occasionally offers pvp classes to the public. The classes are hard to get into and none are currently offered that I'm aware of, or else I'd provide a link for you.

3) Red versus Blue. Two corporations mutually "at war" with each other. The basic design is to allow people to pvp in an environment relatively friendly to new players. While not specifically designed for new players, the structure of the mutual pvp allows new players to enter an environment in which they compete. This is the path I chose for myself, so I have more to offer here. I have found the players very helpful when I have questions. That said, RvB is not designed like a new player instruction ground like Eve University. You will find players interested in PvP who will take the time to help new players out. However, it's not their primary goal. It's helpful for people like me who want to PvP, but don't necessarily want to attend classes, per se. I like to read up on the forums, search stuff on the internet, try my stuff out, and when I have questions from there, would like the opportunity for assistance even if I don't always listen to what is said. I'm a bit hard headed and like to learn by experience.

So, if you are set on mining and that's what you want to do in Eve, I highly suggest Eve University. They will set you on a path to succeed with knowledgeable advice. Moreover, I imagine flying under their corporate flag will provide a fair amount of protection from griefers.

If you would like to eventually PvP in Eve, perhaps to protect yourself against griefers, and like to learn in an unstructured environment, Eve University could probably also be an option. Red Versus Blue could be another option. RvB will provide an environment where you will learn on your own, and always be able to find someone to test your new ideas on. However, be forewarned, expect a self-learning environment rather than one catered to instruct you. Personally, this suits me the best, but you may prefer more structure.

I'm feeling pretty generous tonight, and I feel you're sincerely interested in the game and had a bad start, I'll personally sponsor you with some ships and fittings - around 10 fitted frigs of your choice - expensive deadspace/complex modules and such not included. If you're interested, send me an Eve mail and we can work something out. As with all things RvB, no strings attached, leave whenever you want, and no expectations except one: don't be a jackass while in RvB.

Aralyn Cormallen
Wildly Inappropriate
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.07.07 07:43:00 - [18]
 

Potential things you did wrong

- Your in the Faction Warfare corp (Caldari flavour), Quantum Cats are gallente Faction Warfare guys, so its highly likely they have a live war against you. As you arent a PvPer, you dont need to be in the Faction Warfare Corp. Go to the Corp options and leave corp. You will be reset into the basic NPC corp for your race, which cant have war declared on them. Your safe from that danger.

- Turn off auto-target back. And from this point on (assuming you've done the first thing I said), if someone turns red near you, DO NOT SHOOT THEM. Them turning red is sign you can shoot them, not that they can shoot you. Just ignore them and your safe.

Generals4
Caldari
Posted - 2011.07.07 09:52:00 - [19]
 

As some have already pointed out what you did wrong was joining the Caldari Militia.
The one who blew you up is in the Gallente Militia and considering those two militias are at permanent war you can freely shoot each other without concord doing jack about it.
There is actually no reason for an industrialist to be in the militia, Faction Warfare is a PvP thing (or a PVE one if you are in it for the FW missions, which are all combat anyway, so again, no reason for an industrialist to be in it).

So basically, leave the militia asap if you want to mine without being blown up.

Sleeper 1173
Native Freshfood
Posted - 2011.07.07 11:16:00 - [20]
 

If you want to learn how to mine, and the little bit I know about the game, I can try to teach you, but it would be a waste of time if you are involved in FW.

DeMichael Crimson
Minmatar
Republic University
Posted - 2011.07.07 11:25:00 - [21]
 

Lot's of good advice in this thread, definitely leave Factional Warfare corp. However, I don't agree with turning off the auto-target back. You should have that on for when NPC's attack you in the Asteroid belts.

http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Mining_guide

Bilge Wilson
Posted - 2011.07.07 11:53:00 - [22]
 

Edited by: Bilge Wilson on 07/07/2011 12:09:43
Edited by: Bilge Wilson on 07/07/2011 11:54:16
Thanks for the help.

Yeah it was the milita Corp. I logged in this morning and dropped it. I think I joined it just wondering what it did, though I barely recall doing it.

I'll refit a new cruiser up tonight and get back to mining. It was an interesting experience that's for sure lol

Again thanks all.

Falgarra Uta
Posted - 2011.07.07 20:16:00 - [23]
 

This thread had a lot of information I was ignorant of, very informative!

"X" Wilson, maybe since you are so new you also want to focus on a single pilot? You posted with 2 avatars and a 3rd is in the combat logs.... Don't try and burn yourself out with too many things.

Shellback Wilson
Posted - 2011.07.10 22:43:00 - [24]
 

Edited by: Shellback Wilson on 10/07/2011 23:06:55
I think I'm ok with the two pilots. I have a great system down at the cruiser level where I mine, fly defensive cover, and haul freight. I pull in the wrecks with my miner and when my freighter gets there he salvages.

I'm sure that's not impressive but its got me hooked.

Joining the milita was probably a good mistake. The game was on a serious track for me that did threaten to burn me out with spreadsheets and skill paths. A bit of danger now has made it exciting. One day I might go back to it if I can figure out how to lay a trap for Tommbo ;P

And wow.... Lots of good info edited in now that I re-read. Thank you. I'm not set on mining but for the moment it's giving me a bank roll and something interesting to do. PVP sounds fun, I'm sure I'll regret the industry skill training time I've put in but it seems like a start.


foksieloy
Minmatar
Rockets ponies and rainbows
Posted - 2011.07.11 07:13:00 - [25]
 

You seem to have a good mentality for EvE. Welcome aboard, enjoy your addiction. :)

Adrie Atticus
Mining and Industrial Services
The Irukandji
Posted - 2011.07.12 08:23:00 - [26]
 

You'll make an excellent target and if you can keep up, probably an average-to-good PvP'er.

Tau Cabalander
Posted - 2011.07.12 17:00:00 - [27]
 

Edited by: Tau Cabalander on 12/07/2011 17:00:37
Originally by: DeMichael Crimson
Lot's of good advice in this thread, definitely leave Factional Warfare corp. However, I don't agree with turning off the auto-target back. You should have that on for when NPC's attack you in the Asteroid belts.

http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Mining_guide

Drones on aggressive don't need a target (they also don't attack thieves unless commanded to engage).

Generally, auto-target-back will get you killed if you hit the wrong button at the wrong time.

I've had it turned-off since I've started EVE over 2.5 years ago, and haven't missed it.

JohnSco
Posted - 2011.07.12 23:27:00 - [28]
 

Email me in game anytime after 2330 PST (That's 11:30 pm Pacific Standard Time, USA TZ)

We may be able to help you appreciate this game if you're willing to have the patience to learn. No promises, but we've helped noob players before.

Toshiro GreyHawk
Posted - 2011.07.13 04:27:00 - [29]
 

Edited by: Toshiro GreyHawk on 13/07/2011 04:30:11


1) As has been pointed out - the thing that got you killed was being in a militia when you didn't understand what a militia was. When you do the Advanced Combat Tutorial they give you a chit to get into your factions militia - I guess you used it - not understanding what was going to happen.

2) Now, as to mining.

a) Player Guide On Mining

b) Player Guide on Advanced Mining

c) Player Guide on Location of Minerals in Space

d) Player Guide on Asteroids

e) Player Guide on Asteroid Belts

f) How To Use Giant Secure Containers and Jet Cans



Now, what I do ... is to run missions for the NPC Corporations owning the stations I use - and then if those missions have Asteroids in them - I mine the asteroids in mission space. Mining in Mission Space is much safer than mining in the belts. You can still be scanned down - but then they have to do that. Most of the people scanning down other players ships in Hi Sec - are Ninja Salvagers - not can flippers. The can flippers just roam the belts looking for people to molest. The Ninja's are after salvage though - not miners. So - if you avoid the hi sec areas with a lot of battleships showing up on your Directional Scanner you'll also avoid the Ninja salvagers scanning them down (who might come mess with you if they are bored).

The Star Map is your friend. By setting your filters to show Pilots In Space - and then going where the aren't - you can avoid crowded systems. You can also see what the security level is for a system before you go over there.

Mining in Mission Space in a quiet system - you'll probably never be can flipped again.

If you have an NPC Corporation you want to work for - you can go to their Show Info button and see where all their agents are.


Lastly - be aware that Trading is important as that is what turns your ore into ISK. Training Broker Relations, Accounting and raising your standings with the NPC Corporation whose station you sell your ore in can all cut down on the fees you pay.


.

Cyprus Black
Caldari
Perkone
Posted - 2011.07.13 11:37:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Shellback Wilson...I was being can flipped every time I tried mining...[/quote
Found your problem.

Jetcan mining is highly discouraged. Whomever told you to do this is wrong. A jetcan is basically nothing more than a "please **** me" beacon. You should never jetcan mine in populated systems.

What seems to have happened is that he stole your ore, put it in a jetcan of his own, and you took from that can by mistake. Since you took from his can, it's considered stealing and Concord granted him rights to shoot you. That's how it works and that's why you don't jetcan mine.


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