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DrDan21
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2011.07.06 22:58:00 - [31]
 

Edited by: DrDan21 on 06/07/2011 22:59:24
Originally by: Ezra Vouland
You guys are relevant as Fox anyways


between Glenn Beck and the blonde ***** from Fox I think that EN24 has a bit more credibility and more interesting articles than Fox does.

Master Hu
Caldari
Dirt Nap Squad
Dirt Nap Squad.
Posted - 2011.07.06 23:10:00 - [32]
 

Originally by: CCP Manifest
Hmm, well Windypops approached us on behalf of EN24 in late June... oh well.

We certainly didn't think there was bad faith or anything, just curious as to why Windy didn't show up. Understood of the coverage angle you guys want to take on it, but if you want to do a "makeup" session, just let me know.

This goes for future stuff as well. Like you said, you guys are a place EVE players go for news and opinion pieces. I will clarify in the sticky thread.


So if I say I am representing Microsoft than you will send checks for invoices I produce? Your company certainly has an interesting way of doing business. BTW, did anyone from CCP go to business school, take a class at a community college or did they learn their business acumen from watching reruns of "The Office"?

Riedle
Minmatar
Paradox Collective
Posted - 2011.07.07 00:59:00 - [33]
 

Originally by: Ehdward
Originally by: Zarus Alexander
EN24 is to the EVE world as FOX News is to the real world. You didn't missing anything anyway, CCP.


They are both ceaselessly ragged on by people who want to sound knowledgeable and hip?


LOL!

QFT

General Longkill
Helljumpers
White Noise.
Posted - 2011.07.07 01:41:00 - [34]
 

Originally by: CCP Manifest
We'd been in contact with General Windypops, who had accepted, and who had approached us on behalf of EN24 for comment following Incarna release. He didn't reply to several Skype invites or repeated emails after the initial affirmation of his attendance.




this is a troll right?

ah right, ofc it is....

Headerman
Minmatar
Quovis
Shadow of xXDEATHXx
Posted - 2011.07.07 02:05:00 - [35]
 

Originally by: General Windypops
Just to set the record straight I emailed you, riverini, over a week ago about this and receive no reply, you daft sod. Wasn't able to make he interview personally as had to travel abroad with work.

Read your bloody email riverini!


Oh you sent an email, i guess thats ok then Confused

northwesten
Amarr
Trinity Corporate Services
Terran United Federation
Posted - 2011.07.07 02:12:00 - [36]
 

Edited by: northwesten on 07/07/2011 02:14:04
EN24 load of crap anyway. Rolling Eyes
Originally by: General Windypops
Just to set the record straight I emailed you, riverini, over a week ago about this and receive no reply, you daft sod. Wasn't able to make he interview personally as had to travel abroad with work.

Read your bloody email riverini!


This just made you look like a dumb arse riverini. Big title and OMFG drama queen thread. Maybe you should sort your **** out before posting BS.


Jonathan Ferguson
JC Ferguson and Son Ltd
Ferguson Alliance
Posted - 2011.07.07 02:19:00 - [37]
 

Wow, you succeeded at making CCP look competent and organized (if only by comparison.) Impressive.

Scorn Gojira
Posted - 2011.07.07 02:55:00 - [38]
 

Originally by: General Windypops
Just to set the record straight I emailed you, riverini, over a week ago about this and receive no reply, you daft sod. Wasn't able to make he interview personally as had to travel abroad with work.

Read your bloody email riverini!


This lame ass thread just got a lot more interesting......

Cancel Align NOW
Posted - 2011.07.07 02:59:00 - [39]
 

Originally by: riverini


- Secondly, Eve News24 features mostly "original content", the coverage of this has been handled by "professional news sites"




This will be the closest that Eve News24 ever admits to not being a professional news site.

riverini
Gallente
Reliables Inc
BricK sQuAD.
Posted - 2011.07.07 03:05:00 - [40]
 

Originally by: Cancel Align NOW
Originally by: riverini


- Secondly, Eve News24 features mostly "original content", the coverage of this has been handled by "professional news sites"




This will be the closest that Eve News24 ever admits to not being a professional news site.


Start me paying top bucks for coverage and we'll get pro :P

General Windypops
The Littlest Hobos
En Garde
Posted - 2011.07.07 07:39:00 - [41]
 

Quite amusing to see how angry some people are at EN24 foe getting the scoop of the century. Here are the facts

- CCP Manifest is a jolly nice chap
- riverini is a legend but has too many email addresses and smells a bit
- I am no scummy, pauper journalist. I am, however, an occasional celebrity columnist for EN24 and had been talking to them about doing an interview for some time.




Meter Oria
Posted - 2011.07.07 09:58:00 - [42]
 

You need to alienate more people riverini, especially people who disagree with you, aparently that will make you more popular.


Khamelean
Posted - 2011.07.07 10:23:00 - [43]
 

Originally by: Ehdward
Originally by: Zarus Alexander
EN24 is to the EVE world as FOX News is to the real world. You didn't missing anything anyway, CCP.


They are both ceaselessly ragged on by people who are knowledgeable and hip?


Fixed it for you :)

Ein Spiegel
Minmatar
Fly-by-Night Industries LLC PTY LTD
Posted - 2011.07.07 10:43:00 - [44]
 

Originally by: riverini
Originally by: Cancel Align NOW
Originally by: riverini


- Secondly, Eve News24 features mostly "original content", the coverage of this has been handled by "professional news sites"




This will be the closest that Eve News24 ever admits to not being a professional news site.


Start me paying top bucks for coverage and we'll get pro :P


Spending as much time as I do reading news sites (CNN, Fox, BBC, etc) - You're really not that far off of the "professional" reporting that Fox does on its website. (Actually, it could be argued that your writers at least have an excuse for occassional bad English - I don't know what Fox's excuse is for not being able to do basic proofreading and avoid simple spelling errors.)

That said, any news site of any kind will have some kind of bias/lean to it - the comparison there is invalid.

These days, I think you ARE about the level of "pro", if not in production value. Where have all the Kronkites gone?

Doimake uhorni
Posted - 2011.07.07 10:49:00 - [45]
 

So the 3rd biggest EVE news site out of 3, spits their dummy out about not being invited. Hilarious.


Joe Darkie
Minmatar
Darkies Mob
Posted - 2011.07.07 10:52:00 - [46]
 

maybe we dont need eve24 at all and can use this thread instead to avoid confusion and communication breakdown?

Julian Assagne
Gallente
University of Caille
Posted - 2011.07.07 10:58:00 - [47]
 

Originally by: coolzero
guess you'll get punished for "leaking" stuff.

that much feel like being Julian Assange :P


read some story's from former CSM about ccp doesnt these kind of things :P




what? who called my name?

Habaticus
Gallente
Posted - 2011.07.07 11:10:00 - [48]
 

EN24 tells it as it is, not as you want it to be. Ooh yeah so does Fox News by the :)

Lijhal
Posted - 2011.07.07 11:22:00 - [49]
 

who cares? we dont need your "service" aka EN24 ... lulz

cpu939
Gallente
Volatile Nature
White Noise.
Posted - 2011.07.07 12:04:00 - [50]
 

Originally by: Master Hu
Originally by: CCP Manifest
Hmm, well Windypops approached us on behalf of EN24 in late June... oh well.

We certainly didn't think there was bad faith or anything, just curious as to why Windy didn't show up. Understood of the coverage angle you guys want to take on it, but if you want to do a "makeup" session, just let me know.

This goes for future stuff as well. Like you said, you guys are a place EVE players go for news and opinion pieces. I will clarify in the sticky thread.


So if I say I am representing Microsoft than you will send checks for invoices I produce? Your company certainly has an interesting way of doing business. BTW, did anyone from CCP go to business school, take a class at a community college or did they learn their business acumen from watching reruns of "The Office"?


have you ever done work for Microsoft that's know publicly. The last time I looked at en24 Windypops was doing interviews, maybe just maybe the devs read the interview and scene the connection to en24.

War Kitten
Panda McLegion
Posted - 2011.07.07 12:16:00 - [51]
 

Originally by: riverini
Edited by: riverini on 06/07/2011 19:52:58
EN24, your invitation somehow got "lost" along all the hate mail

Many of our readers have been questioning why we haven't covered the much touted CCP press conference, truth is that we weren't informed of it, and we were like cool, we got so much **** to write about and other sites has been covering it.



Grammar is your friend, mister editor-in-chief.

Quote:

- We won't cover the Press conference Q/A grounded on two facts:

- Since we weren't invited, we deducted that it wasn't in CCP's best interests to have EN24 covering the PR op despite being the third biggest Eve Online news site and the third Biggest eve related site after Eve-Kill.net and Dotlan.



Nice deducting - but it sounds like assuming to me. You're painting yourself into an anti-CCP corner rather than offering any kind of fair and balanced reporting.

Quote:

- Secondly, Eve News24 features mostly "original content", the coverage of this has been handled by "professional news sites"



Oh, so you just post whatever is spoon-fed to you, you don't actually try and cover any stories with actual effort on your part.

Quote:

Is it our desire to state that we wish the success of CCP's "vision" for the Eve Online...



I don't know, is it?

Quote:

Finally we would like to state that Internet Spaceships are Serious Business. YARRRR!!Shocked

Riverini
Editor in chief
Eve News24


Indeed, serious business this internet spaceship thing. If you were in it for anything other than the advertising revenue, your site might be able to grow past being the 3rd biggest Eve news site.

Nuala Reece
Caldari
TROJAN LEGIONS
TROJAN.
Posted - 2011.07.07 12:58:00 - [52]
 

Edited by: Nuala Reece on 07/07/2011 13:04:48
Originally by: riverini

Start me paying top bucks for coverage and we'll get pro :P


No one's expecting you to be professionals, just competent amateurs. So far you're just amateurs and what you produce isn't news.

News is fact checked. News seeks comment and offers a right of reply to those it covers. News attributes opinion and makes a clear distinction between opinion and that which can be verified as fact. Maybe you have been doing some of these things (even if it is via someone not related to EN24 talking to someone not employed by CCP Rolling Eyes) but if you're not including that information in your articles then you're just publishing unsubstantiated speculation and biased opinion, not news.

News is not just releasing a leaked newsletter with a bit of commentary about what you think it means - news is finding out what the context of the newsletter is, finding out why someone wanted to leak it and why they leaked it to you, finding out what CCP think of the fact it was leaked and how they see the newsletter themselves, and then printing all that with the newsletter (assuming that it's still newsworthy by that point, which in my view it wouldn't have been). You printed a very inflammatory 'man bites dog' story about a leaked newsletter showing [your opinion of] how CCP planned to introduce all sorts of game breaking stuff into Eve, and the community went predictably nuts. If you'd taken the time to send and read a handful of emails in the days or weeks you had the newsletter before Incarna you might have found you had a much different 'dog bites man' story about how CCP encouraged it's employees to brainstorm, debate and discuss ideas before making policy decisions. But with that perspective, gained from being competent at producing news, you might have been able to see the real story about how upset people were at the unexpected high price of items on the NeX Store and how the CSM felt they'd not been properly consulted. You could have covered that. That would have been news.

Oh, and news owns up to its mistakes and prints corrections when they've been made. When CCP blogged about the newsletter and what it was for you had the opportunity to own up to your mistake - you could have printed a correction noting how you'd released it without finding out what it really was. You could even have saved face by covering it again with comment from CCP as if you were just continuing the story you'd started but doing it better that time. But instead you just released another unverified leak accompanied by more unsubstantiated opinion and just made the situation worse. And when Eve Tribune pointed out that the date stamp on your leaked email showed it was sent before the 'Fearless' newsletter was available to the community Linkage you could have printed a correction again, but apparently chose not to as the flames of growing rage rose on the official forums and in the game itself.

Nuala Reece
Caldari
TROJAN LEGIONS
TROJAN.
Posted - 2011.07.07 13:01:00 - [53]
 

Like many though, I use EN24 to try and find out what's going on in New Eden and with CCP, even knowing that it's awash with opinion and propaganda since much of the material on the site is submitted by the people involved rather than by impartial people finding out what's really happening. I'd love EN24 to be a good source of reliable news. But this, then, is the challenge for you riverini. You won't make any friends by running a trustworthy news site - that's why Eve Guardian closed down however many years ago, it was hard work for them to investigate and print what was actually going on in Eve, as the real story often doesn't match up with the stories the alliances involved would like to be told. So you get to choose - are you content for EN24 to be used as a vehicle for alliances to drop their propaganda in your lap for you to print, or for disgruntled CCP employees to play out their grudge on your frontpage rather than showing their employer some respect and dealing with their issues internally. Or do you want EN24 to be respected by the community as a source of news we can trust to be, dare I say it, fair and balanced?

Doddy
Excidium.
Executive Outcomes
Posted - 2011.07.07 13:04:00 - [54]
 

Originally by: riverini
despite being the third biggest Eve Online news site and the third Biggest eve related site after Eve-Kill.net and Dotlan.



So you think Dotlan and eve-kill are news sites? Doesn't surprise me tbh.

Riedle
Minmatar
Paradox Collective
Posted - 2011.07.08 12:38:00 - [55]
 

Originally by: Doddy
Originally by: riverini
despite being the third biggest Eve Online news site and the third Biggest eve related site after Eve-Kill.net and Dotlan.



So you think Dotlan and eve-kill are news sites? Doesn't surprise me tbh.


He said "eve related" sites, genius

daddys helper
Posted - 2011.07.08 13:49:00 - [56]
 

after the way you spun the fearless story, are you in the least bit surprised?

really, Geraldo Rivera has more journalistic integrity than you do.

I mean really? doctoring the newsletter to remove everything but what you wanted us to read?
removing the print functionality from the PDF for some unknown reason
omitting certain key facts...


hell I might as well make a forum post whining that I didn't get an invite either.

Leeroy McJenkins
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.07.08 14:24:00 - [57]
 

Despite the fact that everyone here hates EN24 they appear to read it on a regular basis just to hate on it. Neutral

Cipher Jones
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.07.08 16:44:00 - [58]
 

ITT there's no one to hang because no one bore the bad news.


Raquel Smith
Caldari
Freedom-Technologies
Sev3rance
Posted - 2011.07.08 16:54:00 - [59]
 

Originally by: Nuala Reece
Edited by: Nuala Reece on 07/07/2011 13:04:48
Originally by: riverini

Start me paying top bucks for coverage and we'll get pro :P


No one's expecting you to be professionals, just competent amateurs. So far you're just amateurs and what you produce isn't news.

News is fact checked. News seeks comment and offers a right of reply to those it covers. News attributes opinion and makes a clear distinction between opinion and that which can be verified as fact. Maybe you have been doing some of these things (even if it is via someone not related to EN24 talking to someone not employed by CCP Rolling Eyes) but if you're not including that information in your articles then you're just publishing unsubstantiated speculation and biased opinion, not news.

News is not just releasing a leaked newsletter with a bit of commentary about what you think it means - news is finding out what the context of the newsletter is, finding out why someone wanted to leak it and why they leaked it to you, finding out what CCP think of the fact it was leaked and how they see the newsletter themselves, and then printing all that with the newsletter (assuming that it's still newsworthy by that point, which in my view it wouldn't have been). You printed a very inflammatory 'man bites dog' story about a leaked newsletter showing [your opinion of] how CCP planned to introduce all sorts of game breaking stuff into Eve, and the community went predictably nuts. If you'd taken the time to send and read a handful of emails in the days or weeks you had the newsletter before Incarna you might have found you had a much different 'dog bites man' story about how CCP encouraged it's employees to brainstorm, debate and discuss ideas before making policy decisions. But with that perspective, gained from being competent at producing news, you might have been able to see the real story about how upset people were at the unexpected high price of items on the NeX Store and how the CSM felt they'd not been properly consulted. You could have covered that. That would have been news.

Oh, and news owns up to its mistakes and prints corrections when they've been made. When CCP blogged about the newsletter and what it was for you had the opportunity to own up to your mistake - you could have printed a correction noting how you'd released it without finding out what it really was. You could even have saved face by covering it again with comment from CCP as if you were just continuing the story you'd started but doing it better that time. But instead you just released another unverified leak accompanied by more unsubstantiated opinion and just made the situation worse. And when Eve Tribune pointed out that the date stamp on your leaked email showed it was sent before the 'Fearless' newsletter was available to the community Linkage you could have printed a correction again, but apparently chose not to as the flames of growing rage rose on the official forums and in the game itself.



You deserve many kudos for a well thought out post as you have very aptly pointed out the many flaws in EN24's bogus "journalism."

BuckStrider
Nano-Tech Experiments
Posted - 2011.07.08 17:12:00 - [60]
 

Originally by: Ezra Vouland
You guys are relevant as Fox anyways


Wow...That's a big compliment to EVE24.

Fox News is the #1 top cable news channel and has the #1 ranked shows in primetime...But you knew that already.Very Happy


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