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Sirus Forbes
Caldari
Posted - 2011.07.06 19:47:00 - [1]
 

Hello,

Apologies if this has been asked before, but we're entering a few skirmishes in hisec, in a war scenario, and a falcon is always present for the oposition. These are only small fleets, so do you guys, who no doubt have plenty of experience in these matters, have any suggestions for a good counter for these evil ships?

Thanks in advance.


Milla Jovobitch
Posted - 2011.07.06 19:50:00 - [2]
 

A faster locking Falcon.

Borun Tal
Minmatar
Space Pods Inc
Posted - 2011.07.06 19:59:00 - [3]
 

Edited by: Borun Tal on 06/07/2011 19:59:36
Falcon is soooo five minutes ago... Rolling Eyes

Edit: tag fail

Mo0seluffer
Posted - 2011.07.06 20:15:00 - [4]
 

Try to make your targets jump into you,You can get ze falcon soon as he de-cloaks.Even if you lose everything else but kill the falcon its a victory.Laughing

Sirus Forbes
Caldari
Posted - 2011.07.06 20:40:00 - [5]
 

Thanks for the imput so far guys, appreciated and noted. Any other advice appreciated.

Tau Cabalander
Posted - 2011.07.06 21:34:00 - [6]
 

Falcons are relatively fragile, especially the more or better they jam = the less tank they have.

Sensor damps either stop the ECM, or they force the Falcon closer to the combat = dead Falcon.

An interceptors (or any small fast moving frigate) with damps is highly annoying to ECM pilots, forcing them to jam the interceptor.

Cordo Draken
ABOS Industrial Enterprises
Posted - 2011.07.06 21:57:00 - [7]
 

I have a solution to your problem, message me in game and We'll talk it over.

432535 Esil
Posted - 2011.07.06 22:59:00 - [8]
 

a Curse fitted with an ECCM mod and at least one T2 HML with FoF missiles at the ready so your drones will be able to go after him even if you are jammed.

Zarus Alexander
Posted - 2011.07.07 01:32:00 - [9]
 

BECAUSE OF FALCON

Abbadon21
Cosmic Cimmerians
Usurper.
Posted - 2011.07.07 01:42:00 - [10]
 

Another Falcon, a fast ship (Vaga) to run him down and kill him, or a ship that can kill him from range (Arty Pest).

ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
Posted - 2011.07.07 02:02:00 - [11]
 

I hear that Falcons REALLY don't like drones... ranged sentries in particular. Think about having a droneboat in fleet for ECM suppression. Or, have the fleet assign all their drones to an interceptor and have the inty burn out and tackle the guy. Hilarity ensues if the Falcon can't get a jam off in time. Laughing

lordlulzs
Posted - 2011.07.07 02:39:00 - [12]
 

seboed kitsune, seboed curse with range damps, having more falcons.


Sirus Forbes
Caldari
Posted - 2011.07.07 04:01:00 - [13]
 

Excellent suggestions there guys, thanks very much. Very Happy

Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
Posted - 2011.07.07 06:16:00 - [14]
 

Edited by: Hirana Yoshida on 07/07/2011 06:18:00
There is no counter on the individual/small-scale level, which is one of the reason complaints about ECM keep coming up (the other being chance-based stunlock mechanic).

If you have the ships to spare, dedicate a ship to act as a midrange heavy-hitter (Apocs/Pests are great at this).
If you have the midslots to spare, dedicate some for damps on long lockrange hulls or add remote ECCM for circling the wagons.
If you have the ISK to spare, equip all pilots with HG FW implant sets (roughly equal to an ECCM, non-stacking).

But the cheapest and most reliable way to counter Failcons is to bring your own ..

TaluxA
Posted - 2011.07.07 06:29:00 - [15]
 

If you're solo or duo the best option is to just not fight.

Once you have a gang of four or five you can kick falcons off the field through using a sniper hac or bs, a fast locking jammer of your own, sensor damps or heavy eccm with implants.

Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
Posted - 2011.07.07 07:27:00 - [16]
 

Sentry-Domi/Ishtar.
Cerberus/cruise Raven/HBT-rigged Drake.
Rook.

Putting 3 RSD on it will also often work.

Princess Nexxala
Gallente
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Posted - 2011.07.07 14:32:00 - [17]
 

Long range high alpha
ECCM
Remote sensor damps
ECM

...all fairly effective counters for ecm

Sirus Forbes
Caldari
Posted - 2011.07.07 18:19:00 - [18]
 

Excellent info Ladies and Gents, much appreciated, certainly opened up some options.

Very Happy

Esops Naari
Posted - 2011.07.19 13:11:00 - [19]
 

You bring ewar. Lots of it.
Have a fast(er) locking Falcon or Arazu with 3x damps in gang.
Put Ceptors/Drones on him.

NoLimit Soldier
Posted - 2011.07.19 16:13:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Hirana Yoshida
Edited by: Hirana Yoshida on 07/07/2011 06:18:00
There is no counter on the individual/small-scale level, which is one of the reason complaints about ECM keep coming up (the other being chance-based stunlock mechanic).

..


The reason it keeps coming up is because the top end players of this game who love to solo entire fleets get shut down by a 10mil SP player in a falcon. If a weapon platform becomes useless past 10 people, it isn't overpowered. Like neuts I count ECM as the counter to overly skilled players with isk.

Do you know what counters ECM at the small pvp level? A few things, most have already been mentioned but at the end of the day a falcon CAN NOT PERMAJAM A BATTLESHIP PERIOD.

Having said that, roll a couple of RR domis in your small fleet. Let me know how well that falcon works out for them when the drones arrive. (Drones will continue to engage a target even after their master is jammed so long as they were targeted once already)



King Rothgar
Autocannons Anonymous
Posted - 2011.07.19 20:16:00 - [21]
 

Best option, have a better falcon. Second best is have a prober with probes out and ready to go, then drop a FoF drake at 0m on their falcon or even better, a curse with a full rack of neuts. Alpha his cap and he's toast. In fact that's how I have nearly all my falcon/rook kills, dropping a curse within neuting range of them really messes them up.

SmokeTheFly
Caldari
Elite Force
Posted - 2011.07.19 20:24:00 - [22]
 

Just fit a full rack of BZ-5 Neutralizing Spatial Destabilizer ECM on a buffer plated sebo Blackbird and make his primary the Falcon, saving you a gajillion ISK or as someone else said use damps to force his hand to come closer within range. A full racial BB is the cheapest counter I can think of but as soon as they see the BB they will primary so your BB pilot needs to know how to fly and when to engage.

Corporal Punishment08
NosWaffle
Nostradamus Effect
Posted - 2011.07.19 21:57:00 - [23]
 

ECCMed fitted Sniper Battleship.

If you're in small fleets, chances of your sniper bs getting killed are slim. Heck, I'll even fly it for ya. I got mad Rokh skillz

Strecs Moliko
Posted - 2011.07.19 22:59:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Corporal Punishment08
ECCMed fitted Sniper Battleship.

If you're in small fleets, chances of your sniper bs getting killed are slim. Heck, I'll even fly it for ya. I got mad Rokh skillz


This.

I kill more falcons in my Rokh then any other ship.

Afterwards I toss this into local.

Buzz Cutter
Posted - 2011.07.20 00:03:00 - [25]
 

Drake!!! Gets good range and good alpha. I always have atlest a full reload of FOF EM missles and a reload of Navy EM missles. The trick is burn straight for him launching your thunderbolts at him an if/when he jams you load up the FOF missles and watch as he goes WTF Hes is jamed how is he still shooting me LOLS!!!!!

Soldarius
Caldari
Peek-A-Boo Bombers
Posted - 2011.07.20 02:59:00 - [26]
 

There is a lot of good suggestions here. I find a Curse to be very effective at neuting out ECM ships. Sniper BS seems viable. Drones... have a limited range. Indeed they will continue to attack even when the owner's ship is jammed. But they have to be within drone control range. A Falcon has pretty good ECM optimals and falloff, far more than your average drone control range. Sentries would be best for this tactic.

If you assign a flight of Hobgoblin IIs to something that can close range fast like an inty, they should force him off field.

Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
Posted - 2011.07.20 10:57:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: Soldarius
Drones... have a limited range. Indeed they will continue to attack even when the owner's ship is jammed. But they have to be within drone control range. A Falcon has pretty good ECM optimals and falloff, far more than your average drone control range. Sentries would be best for this tactic.

If you assign a flight of Hobgoblin IIs to something that can close range fast like an inty, they should force him off field.


Nah, you need more DPS than a single flight of Hobgoblins. As you noted, you need DLAs to get the drone-control range. But with that, Sentries do work well. An example... a couple of weeks ago I killed a Tengu in a WH site. The inhabitants got angry and got together a Drake, Deimos, Rifter and a Falcon (which they obviously kept cloaked but I saw it at their POS to deal with me.

They sat the Drake off a WH as bait. I engaged it with my HAM Drake. The Rifter and Deimos came in and their Falcon uncloaked and started jamming. I jumped my alt's Dominix in and set Bouncers on the Falcon. The Falcon promptly fled. I tackled the Deimos, set Bouncers and HAMs on it, killed it and then broke the remaining tackle and warped out - at 11% hull! Laughing

Irani Firecam
Posted - 2011.07.20 13:25:00 - [28]
 

Since the OP is encountering falcons in a highsec wardec situation, just use the time spent being jammed to deagress and dock or jump. Otherwise, bring your own falcon blob.

Othran
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2011.07.20 14:02:00 - [29]
 

Edited by: Othran on 20/07/2011 14:13:04
Damps are the obvious answer.

Warp a fast-locking damping ship in once the fight starts and the Falcon is jamming. Reduce his range and see if he wants to come play a bit closer Twisted Evil

Apparently Electronic Attack Ships are getting a buff in Winter but even now a Keres is pretty awesome (even with L4). Just make sure its not around at the start of the fight - a decent warp-in for the Keres and that'll shut the Falcon down AND hold it in place.

You can do the same with a Maulus or two but they won't be able to hold the Falcon. They will shut it down though.

Timing and a decent warp-in is everything here, regardless of what you choose to damp the Falcon with. You will need to damp the Falcon down to well under your point range. Keres does that with ease.

Mistime it and your damp ships are going to either die or be totally ineffective.

Alternatively you can try to counter the Falcon with a faster locking ECM ship. This might seem like an attractive idea but remember ECM is chance-based, so you may not get a jam first. With damps its guaranteed to work provided you're in optimal.

You say its high-sec though so I guess we're talking docking games ugh

Edit - you need to PRACTICE the warp-in/damping stuff before you do it live. I guess one thing about docking games is that there's loads of points for aligning the warp-in Rolling Eyes


 

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