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Juggalo Stazz
Caldari
Posted - 2011.07.06 15:49:00 - [1]
 

So, you got rid of the 4 PLEX buy option and went from 2 PLEX to 6 PLEX ( most poular option) and now you got rid of PLEX for buddy invites. Hmm, this may only be just a coincidence, but your most expensive Nex item would cost a little less than 4 plex, ( $70 if I am correct) This is a little weird to me. So you are must really be trying to sell your over priced crap in the Nex store. Seriously, what the hell did we do or are doing, that made us look like a bunch of chumps? Remember, the majority of your players are adults, who do not rely on "Daddy's" credit card to pay for our game. This is getting scary. DO NOT RUIN OUR GAME! So when can we expect the new expansion called "World of Eve" to come out? Just wondering. By the way I had to start this new topic because apparently you knew we would raise hell on this Blog, http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1546822&page=1&sid=546650778 and therefor you did not give us the option to comment on it.

Steve Thomas
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2011.07.06 15:58:00 - [2]
 

just buy 2 plex twice.

or just dont buy plex at all, honestly why do you need them. oh thats right this is a pay more to win more game (its been that way since they allowed GTC sales in the GTC forum

Bascialy they took a sloped together buying system and modified it so you can now buy 1 and 12 count plex.


Steve Thomas
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2011.07.06 16:01:00 - [3]
 

Edited by: Steve Thomas on 06/07/2011 16:02:59
Originally by: Steve Thomas
just buy 2 plex twice.

or just dont buy plex at all, honestly why do you need them. oh thats right this is a pay more to win more game (its been that way since they allowed GTC sales in the GTC forum

Bascialy they took a sloped together buying system and modified it so you can now buy 1 and 12 count plex.




2007.06.26 17:48:00
by: Monique Balthur

The day hour and minuet and Character who first made EVE a Freemium game in reality.

shes been sold since.

Shigeru Potatomoto
Posted - 2011.07.06 16:07:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: Cashcow Golden Goose
. Seriously, what the hell did we do or are doing, that made us look like a bunch of chumps?


Buying PLEX. Everybody tossing "slippery slope" around because of AUR needs to realize they're already halfway down it and started the day they bought PLEX for that expensive PvP ship of theirs.

Tyburn Stannis
Caldari
Xenon Salvage Inc.
Posted - 2011.07.06 16:12:00 - [5]
 

You can already :

Buy PLEX with or $ > convert to ISK > buy a more powerful ship
Buy PLEX with or $ > convert to ISK > buy higher SP pilot with skills of choice

And people are crying "MT r teh evil" over a bucket of paint and suitcase full of clothes...

Rolling Eyes

Juggalo Stazz
Caldari
Posted - 2011.07.06 16:34:00 - [6]
 

Edited by: Juggalo Stazz on 06/07/2011 16:37:05
Originally by: Shigeru Potatomoto
Originally by: Cashcow Golden Goose
. Seriously, what the hell did we do or are doing, that made us look like a bunch of chumps?


Buying PLEX. Everybody tossing "slippery slope" around because of AUR needs to realize they're already halfway down it and started the day they bought PLEX for that expensive PvP ship of theirs.


You know what? I cannot argue with you on this. I did take a 7 month break from eve because of real life issues so, when I first came back 2 months ago I bought some plex so I could buy the ship I was thinking about before I quit. I figured, "what the hell, I was away for so long it would just make up for the 7 months loss in income from not running missions." I came back to the plex option today to get some funding for our alliance seeing as we are now bringing in allot of new pilots to help with ship cost and what not. When I saw that the 4 plex option was gone, then I happened accros the blog about no plex for buddy invite it just set off some red flags. It is a slippery slope to buy for in game ISK, but the bottom line is you still need to "train" the skills to fly that awesome faction ship or T3 ship you want to fly. But you are absolutely correct Shigeru and Tyburn, plex might be a bad option all together as well.

Dan Estrellas Amigo
Posted - 2011.07.06 16:45:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Tyburn Stannis
You can already :

Buy PLEX with or $ > convert to ISK > buy a more powerful ship

Originally by: Tyburn Stannis
Buy PLEX with or $ > convert to ISK > buy higher SP pilot with skills of choice


Originally by: Tyburn Stannis
And people are crying "MT r teh evil" over a bucket of paint and suitcase full of clothes...

Rolling Eyes


All three of which aren't affecting, and are missing, the point people are crying about.

Nerodon
Gallente
Incapsulated Reality
Posted - 2011.07.06 18:10:00 - [8]
 

Edited by: Nerodon on 06/07/2011 18:18:07
Originally by: Juggalo Stazz
So, you got rid of the 4 PLEX buy option and went from 2 PLEX to 6 PLEX ( most poular option) and now you got rid of PLEX for buddy invites. [...] By the way I had to start this new topic because apparently you knew we would raise hell on this Blog, http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1546822&page=1&sid=546650778 and therefor you did not give us the option to comment on it.


Calm down! You can always buy 2 PLEX twice!

If you actually read that post you would find that it's in fact not a coincidence they shut down PLEX for buddy invites, but for different and unrelated reasons.
This is a temporary hiatus as they are currently sampling how much PLEX for buddy invites affect the number of invites sent. Can't you read? Why would this be a "HUGE" cause for concern? There's no real need to comment at all!

Originally by: Juggalo Stazz
So when can we expect the new expansion called "World of Eve" to come out?


I hardly see the relevance that all of this has to World of Warcraft, your lack of knowledge about both the MT situation and the MMO world is definitely creating a false sense of insecurity here.

Cool off and stop panicking for these ridiculous concerns, you don't want to buy from the Nex, don't buy!!! What does the change in PLEX bundle offers do to change that? Why would that encourage you to buy from the Nex? If you really aren't a kid depending on dad's credit card then you're gown up enough to not buy a monocle if you don't want it!

EDIT: I'm not trying to be offensive and if I seem to be then i'm sorry.
I'm more trying to "knock a little sense into you". If you know what I mean.

What's important to note is that no, the PLEX for buddy has not be declared dead, on the contrary, it was the first experiment coming to an end, if invites become lower after removing PLEX for buddy invite, expect it to be back, for good!

And also, because theres only vanity items in NeX, albeit being expensive, there's no effect on the game experience, paying for them is completely optional.




Tyburn Stannis
Caldari
Xenon Salvage Inc.
Posted - 2011.07.06 18:14:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Dan Estrellas Amigo

All three of which aren't affecting, and are missing, the point people are crying about.


There's a point? Seems pretty freely distributed with no real purpose round here these days, or as if a quota is in place. Must be x ragequits per hour, or something.

Skex Relbore
Gallente
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
Posted - 2011.07.06 19:10:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Tyburn Stannis
You can already :

Buy PLEX with or $ > convert to ISK > buy a more powerful ship
Buy PLEX with or $ > convert to ISK > buy higher SP pilot with skills of choice

And people are crying "MT r teh evil" over a bucket of paint and suitcase full of clothes...

Rolling Eyes


As has been explained to you idiots multiple times.

In the case of a plex no game mechanic is bypassed. Someone had to go out and play the actual game to earn the isk, someone had to manufacture that shinny PVP ship someone had to grind the faction and LP for those pirate ships, and someone had to spend X number of years to train that character on the market to Y skill points.

This is not remotely close to pay CCP money and CCP spawns **** out of no where.

Pay to win in EVE isn't bad because it allows people with real money to do things they wouldn't otherwise be able to do. IT'S BAD BECAUSE IT BYPASSES IMPORTANT GAME MECHANICS.

Like shooting rats to earn isk, like mining to get minerals, it bypasses the refining process, it by passes the manufacturing process, it bypasses all the hauling surounding those processes as well as the process of trade on the markets. It devalues all the skills involved in every step of the process for every player in that chain.

That's what's different and that's what's bad. Saying "Plex is already Pay to Win" does not make it so because it does not negate all the negative effects that the Noble Exchange would cause to actual game play.

Herping yourDerp
Posted - 2011.07.06 19:17:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Tyburn Stannis
You can already :

Buy PLEX with or $ > convert to ISK > buy a more powerful ship
Buy PLEX with or $ > convert to ISK > buy higher SP pilot with skills of choice

And people are crying "MT r teh evil" over a bucket of paint and suitcase full of clothes...

Rolling Eyes


its regulated by the players. if i convert to aur and spawn a new ship it isn't regulated by the players.
if i buy 12 plex then turn it into a super carrier it spawns that ship into the game. if i buy sp with aur i am making my character have 100mil sp.

if no one is selling a high sp character all the isk in the world won't help you, that could change. that is why people are ****ed.

Cipher Jones
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.07.06 19:22:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Skex Relbore
Originally by: Tyburn Stannis
You can already :

Buy PLEX with or $ > convert to ISK > buy a more powerful ship
Buy PLEX with or $ > convert to ISK > buy higher SP pilot with skills of choice

And people are crying "MT r teh evil" over a bucket of paint and suitcase full of clothes...

Rolling Eyes


As has been explained to you idiots multiple times.

In the case of a plex no game mechanic is bypassed. Someone had to go out and play the actual game to earn the isk, someone had to manufacture that shinny PVP ship someone had to grind the faction and LP for those pirate ships, and someone had to spend X number of years to train that character on the market to Y skill points.

This is not remotely close to pay CCP money and CCP spawns **** out of no where.

Pay to win in EVE isn't bad because it allows people with real money to do things they wouldn't otherwise be able to do. IT'S BAD BECAUSE IT BYPASSES IMPORTANT GAME MECHANICS.

Like shooting rats to earn isk, like mining to get minerals, it bypasses the refining process, it by passes the manufacturing process, it bypasses all the hauling surounding those processes as well as the process of trade on the markets. It devalues all the skills involved in every step of the process for every player in that chain.

That's what's different and that's what's bad. Saying "Plex is already Pay to Win" does not make it so because it does not negate all the negative effects that the Noble Exchange would cause to actual game play.


/Amen

Tyburn Stannis
Caldari
Xenon Salvage Inc.
Posted - 2011.07.06 19:31:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Skex Relbore

As has been explained to you idiots multiple times.

*skip to damning phrase*

Pay to win in EVE isn't bad because it allows people with real money to do things they wouldn't otherwise be able to do.


Hell yes it is. The kid with momma's credit card can just have Tengu's on tap. Or trousers, or monocles. But my point is, when it was just ships and characters nobody gave a damn.

Whether somebody spent time building it or training it, or whether it was generated out of thin air at the NPC store - it's the same "cash for advantage" effect to the purchaser of the item and to anybody that that item goes on to affect. If I get blown apart by somebody in a wormhole, I want to know that person earned his victory, not bought it.

And just because people don't agree with you doesn't make them idiots. I understand your arguement about game mechanics being bypassed being potentially a greater sin in what up until this point been a closed system, however that is a totally separate complaint to a simple dislike of "player with the most dollars wins".

CyberGh0st
Minmatar
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
Posted - 2011.07.06 19:53:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Tyburn Stannis
Originally by: Skex Relbore

As has been explained to you idiots multiple times.

*skip to damning phrase*

Pay to win in EVE isn't bad because it allows people with real money to do things they wouldn't otherwise be able to do.


Hell yes it is. The kid with momma's credit card can just have Tengu's on tap. Or trousers, or monocles. But my point is, when it was just ships and characters nobody gave a damn.

Whether somebody spent time building it or training it, or whether it was generated out of thin air at the NPC store - it's the same "cash for advantage" effect to the purchaser of the item and to anybody that that item goes on to affect. If I get blown apart by somebody in a wormhole, I want to know that person earned his victory, not bought it.

And just because people don't agree with you doesn't make them idiots. I understand your arguement about game mechanics being bypassed being potentially a greater sin in what up until this point been a closed system, however that is a totally separate complaint to a simple dislike of "player with the most dollars wins".


Actually I was very unconfortable with full characters being sold for plex, I always thought it was not needed and selling characters should not be possible.

But trading plex for isk ( excluding full characters ) is a very good pragmatic approach to illegal ISK sellers.
Illegal ISK trading happens regardless ( however more action should be taken against hackers and botters ), so giving players a legal option was really smart.

However, selling items in a cash shop, that defy the regular rules of EVE : they are not destructible and not player made, sucks, plain and simple. It screws over player interaction, player economy, PvP, and it assumes the players are cashcows that can be milked for premium subs AND mt's on top.

Damn let it rest already, the longer I think and talk about it, the more I start detesting everything what EVE is becomming.

Abbadon
Caldari
Pukin' Dogs
D0GMA
Posted - 2011.07.06 19:55:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Tyburn Stannis
Originally by: Skex Relbore

As has been explained to you idiots multiple times.

*skip to damning phrase*

Pay to win in EVE isn't bad because it allows people with real money to do things they wouldn't otherwise be able to do.


Hell yes it is. The kid with momma's credit card can just have Tengu's on tap. Or trousers, or monocles. But my point is, when it was just ships and characters nobody gave a damn.

Whether somebody spent time building it or training it, or whether it was generated out of thin air at the NPC store - it's the same "cash for advantage" effect to the purchaser of the item and to anybody that that item goes on to affect. If I get blown apart by somebody in a wormhole, I want to know that person earned his victory, not bought it.

And just because people don't agree with you doesn't make them idiots. I understand your arguement about game mechanics being bypassed being potentially a greater sin in what up until this point been a closed system, however that is a totally separate complaint to a simple dislike of "player with the most dollars wins".


Fist off...way to miss the important part of the quote... "IT'S BAD BECAUSE IT BYPASSES IMPORTANT GAME MECHANICS."

So using your incredibly flawed logic....

If CCP took all market items out of game.....
Deleted mining, manufacturing, moons, PI etc etc.....

Then put everything in the NEXtonothing shop...

This would not be game breaking?!

Skex Relbore
Gallente
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
Posted - 2011.07.06 21:26:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Tyburn Stannis


Hell yes it is. The kid with momma's credit card can just have Tengu's on tap. Or trousers, or monocles. But my point is, when it was just ships and characters nobody gave a damn.

Whether somebody spent time building it or training it, or whether it was generated out of thin air at the NPC store - it's the same "cash for advantage" effect to the purchaser of the item and to anybody that that item goes on to affect. If I get blown apart by somebody in a wormhole, I want to know that person earned his victory, not bought it.

And just because people don't agree with you doesn't make them idiots. I understand your arguement about game mechanics being bypassed being potentially a greater sin in what up until this point been a closed system, however that is a totally separate complaint to a simple dislike of "player with the most dollars wins".


I'm not calling you an idiot because you have a different opinion I'm calling you an idiot because you are wrong and are refusing to admit it after it's been explained to you.

No one gives a damned whether or not someone breaks out their credit card and buys a shinny ship. Like Atika pointed out an officer fit CNR in the hands of an inexperienced pilot is just a loot pinata.

The point is that when someone purchases a GTC converts into plex and sells it for ISK. Nothing is added to the game economy. No items are magicked into existence no characters spawn fully formed will 100mil sp and the perfect standings. The person controlling the avatar who has control of that asset may change but nothing is actually added to the game.

It may be a subtle distinction but to quote a certain Dev the devil is in the details.

Under the plex system if no one needs a plex to pay for their game time then no one will buy your plex. If no one has a character for sale that meets the needs of the purchaser then that purchaser has to either wait or settle for something sub-optimal and put some work in themselves to get it just right.

If no one has a CNR for sale you can't buy it and if one is the cost is dictated by ye ole supply and demand of the market. Any isk spent on it goes to some trader and eventually to the industrialist as well as all the other people in the supply chain.

That is a worlds difference from someone whipping out their credit card and buying it directly from CCP.

What the Plex system does is facilitate one person trading their time to another for game time. It's different from RMT in that the real world currency goes straight to and only to CCP to pay for the buyers play time.

It's essentially the same as you telling your real life buddy "hey man, I don't have time to grind isk and frankly I hate it with a passion, if I pay your subscription could you give me some isk?" the only difference is that the transaction takes place between strangers.

It's a win/win/win proposition. CCP gets their money, the buyer gets to "play for free" and the seller gets to "skip the boring stuff".

This is a worlds difference from whipping out a credit card and paying CCP to spawn stuff which bypasses the every bit of non-spaceship-pew-pew PVP. It bypasses the time investment in getting somewhere in the game.

Every character played at this point shares one thing in common. Some person had to spend the time getting them to the point they are at. When you look at a characters birth date it tells you something that that character will have no more than X total SP.

A newbie has some clue to how effective an opponent might be based on their age. A 6 month old character isn't likely to have perfect skills for a BC for instance. If people could bypass that time requirement by simply buying SP from CCP then that information becomes worthless.

The important and critical distinction between the Plex system and Pay to Win is that in the former nothing new is added to the game universe that wouldn't have existed with out it while in the later it is.

Llambda
Space Llama Industries
Posted - 2011.07.06 21:32:00 - [17]
 

Quote:

Hell yes it is. The kid with momma's credit card can just have Tengu's on tap. Or trousers, or monocles. But my point is, when it was just ships and characters nobody gave a damn.


Posting to confirm that you -

A: Possibly do not understand the issue as well as you believe.
B: Need to read before responding.
C: Perhaps some combination of A and B.

CCP Zinfandel

Posted - 2011.07.06 21:36:00 - [18]
 

Thanks for the heads-up on this.

We were asked to add an option to purchase a single PLEX. Instead of just adding another option to our list of packages, we decided to take out the least popular package size and replace it with the new 1-pack. The least popular package was the 4-pack.

This was before we had come to a decision about pricing on the goods in the NeX. If we had thought about the fact that the monocle cost 4 PLEX and the 4-pack was recently removed, we would still have assumed that the monocle would be a rare purchase.

EVE players do not always do what we expect them to do in-game.

But I will go take another look at our packages and our interface for displaying the packages. In the meantime, we do keep working on small improvements to the purchase pipeline. It won't lock you out for a day any more if you make a PLEX purchase.

Selinate
Amarr
Posted - 2011.07.06 21:43:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: CCP Zinfandel
Thanks for the heads-up on this.

We were asked to add an option to purchase a single PLEX. Instead of just adding another option to our list of packages, we decided to take out the least popular package size and replace it with the new 1-pack. The least popular package was the 4-pack.

This was before we had come to a decision about pricing on the goods in the NeX. If we had thought about the fact that the monocle cost 4 PLEX and the 4-pack was recently removed, we would still have assumed that the monocle would be a rare purchase.

EVE players do not always do what we expect them to do in-game.

But I will go take another look at our packages and our interface for displaying the packages. In the meantime, we do keep working on small improvements to the purchase pipeline. It won't lock you out for a day any more if you make a PLEX purchase.


who the hell would pay real money for 4 plex to buy....

Oh, screw it. Keep your monocles.

San Severina
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.07.06 21:51:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: CCP Zinfandel
Thanks for the heads-up on this.

We were asked to add an option to purchase a single PLEX. Instead of just adding another option to our list of packages, we decided to take out the least popular package size and replace it with the new 1-pack. The least popular package was the 4-pack.

This was before we had come to a decision about pricing on the goods in the NeX. If we had thought about the fact that the monocle cost 4 PLEX and the 4-pack was recently removed, we would still have assumed that the monocle would be a rare purchase.

EVE players do not always do what we expect them to do in-game.

But I will go take another look at our packages and our interface for displaying the packages. In the meantime, we do keep working on small improvements to the purchase pipeline. It won't lock you out for a day any more if you make a PLEX purchase.


Good to see CCP has it's priorities rightWink
(nice monocleugh)

Abdiel Kavash
Caldari
Paladin Order
Fidelas Constans
Posted - 2011.07.06 21:55:00 - [21]
 

Edited by: Abdiel Kavash on 06/07/2011 21:55:47
Originally by: CCP Zinfandel
EVE players do not always do what we expect them to do in-game.


Yes. They sometimes do the sensible and rational thing.

Edit: so how many out of those 52 monocles were actually bought by CCP?

Ehdward
Caldari
Nex Exercitus
Raiden.
Posted - 2011.07.06 22:04:00 - [22]
 

What does the size of PLEX bundles have to do with the EVE = WoW trope?


 

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