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El'Niaga
Minmatar
Republic Military School
Posted - 2011.07.07 10:48:00 - [61]
 

Originally by: Shadowsword
Hello CCP.

One of the best things about Eve is that you must make choices, sometimes painful ones. Where skills are concerned, this translate into choices in what you want your character to be good at, and what you will not be able to do. For exemple, you can become a god of R&D and production in 6 months if you choose to, but then you won't use those months to train for supercarriers.

Only, after the first few years, this isn't true anymore. I have 75M SP, and I already have to throw my SP in things I don't really plan to ever use. Because I maxed the fields I had an interest in. Some players out there have 140M SP or more, and it must be far worse for them.

There is a need for more skills, like Advanced Motion Prediction or Advanced controlled bursts. I want to be able to invest 50M SP in a single ship and the modules to go with it if I so choose.

So I suggest either more skills, or upping the max level of skills to 7.


Shouldn't allow a higher max level to skills, it makes balancing far harder. Perhaps new advanced skills would be good.

Difference between you and say a 20 million skill point character is focus. The later will be a more focused character mostly filling one or two roles, whereas you might could do every role in a fleet.

Sadayiel
Caldari
Inner Conflict
Posted - 2011.07.07 10:50:00 - [62]
 

Edited by: Sadayiel on 07/07/2011 10:50:53
Originally by: Cashcow Golden Goose
Edited by: Cashcow Golden Goose on 07/07/2011 10:28:30
Step 1: Pay money to CCP.
Step 2: Access to game time
Step 3: If you wish then train sp

It's Still True, and it will be true tomorrow.


Step 1: Receive Skill Points.
Is not true and will not be true again.

All things begin with payment.
Don't get mad. Don't get educated. GET INSANE!


Quoted and bolded how this thing works you can argue as much as you want but no one gives you SP for pay this game, that just give you access to the game server then train for Sp it's absolut optional, also implants are not a gift neither a must be with your mensual paymenth so again the Sp gain rate it's tied to what you choose to do.

P.S: after all this is CCP fault the removal of the jump Bridges stirred a lot of trolls.

jx3p
Posted - 2011.07.07 10:56:00 - [63]
 

OP you should be grateful for what you have. In 99% of other MMO's you will reach a point where there's nothing left for you to train in a fraction of the time it takes in EVE. If you honestly haven't got anything left to train with only 75 mil skill points then you either need to think about trying something new out in EVE or accept that your character's progression has come to an end and be thankful that it took far longer than it would have in any other MMO.


Lina Miaoke
Posted - 2011.07.07 11:03:00 - [64]
 

Edited by: Lina Miaoke on 07/07/2011 11:04:52
Wont be long before they replace all 18 Industry Processing skills into a single Processing skill.

Evenus Battuta
Posted - 2011.07.07 11:42:00 - [65]
 

Edited by: Evenus Battuta on 07/07/2011 11:56:06
OP is a good example for the "pay for SP" side: When he paid the sub and had nothing to train, he feel robbed. I predict this will happen to many of you paying for some false illusion of 'fun future' and eventually find yourself juggled by skill system. You will be too shamed to admit then although.

Cashcow Golden Goose
Posted - 2011.07.07 12:27:00 - [66]
 

Edited by: Cashcow Golden Goose on 07/07/2011 12:26:57
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Cashcow Golden Goose

Step 1: Pay money to CCP.
Step 2: Receive skill points.
[…]
It's Still True, and it will be true tomorrow.
Just one problem: it's not true, and it doesn't work that way. You're missing a number of crucial steps. This is why I asked you to test it: what happens if you do #1? Does #2 immediately follow? The answer is obviously no, because you're not actually paying for SP.



You are using, as usual, insanity as a justification. Give money to any company as a singular action and you will receive NOTHING.

Since you like analogies, because you think they explain things, which they don't, but here you go.
Walk into sweet shop, hand over money, receive nothing.
Walk into mobile phone shop, hand over money, receive nothing.
Send money electronically to any Gas supplier, receive nothing.

In Tippia Logic, you cannot purchase things, you have to "earn" them by asking for them. This is your Tippia Logic. It's a special logic that relies on insanity.

It has absolutely no relevance in the real world.
The real world does not exist to simply make you right every time you trot out weird insane position. It doesn't. It really doesn't.

Cashcow Golden Goose
Posted - 2011.07.07 12:35:00 - [67]
 

Edited by: Cashcow Golden Goose on 07/07/2011 12:34:55
Originally by: Sadayiel
Edited by: Sadayiel on 07/07/2011 10:50:53
Originally by: Cashcow Golden Goose
Edited by: Cashcow Golden Goose on 07/07/2011 10:28:30
Step 1: Pay money to CCP.
Step 2: Access to game time
Step 3: If you wish then train sp

It's Still True, and it will be true tomorrow.


Step 1: Receive Skill Points.
Is not true and will not be true again.

All things begin with payment.
Don't get mad. Don't get educated. GET INSANE!


Quoted and bolded how this thing works you can argue as much as you want but no one gives you SP for pay this game, that just give you access to the game server then train for Sp it's absolut optional, also implants are not a gift neither a must be with your mensual paymenth so again the Sp gain rate it's tied to what you choose to do.

P.S: after all this is CCP fault the removal of the jump Bridges stirred a lot of trolls.


Even insane Tippia gains SP. Arguing that it's an option that people would knowingly choose to not gain SP is an appeal to insanity. Is their any latin for this type of argument? I don't know.

Appealing to insanity to make you right just looks weird. Have you read what you've typed?
Mostly it is insane people pay for things with no intention to have what they are paying for. When I pay for something, I am purchasing it. I am not earning sp buy claiming them, I am claiming what I purchase. This does not require appealling to insanity to justify as a truth. That is the main benefit it has over a Tippia Logic assertion.

I mean I don't blame you in any way, Tippia is a popular guy, talks a lot, most of it makes sense, everybody likes to back apparent winners, that's fine, but you have to accept that even winners screw up. Most people have the spine to say "oh lol, yeah, my bad" but when has Tippia ever? Never? One time? No, it's never. Because while there are appeals to insanity to grasp at, that's what Tippia will do. The winner backing fanboiz ought to have the presence of mind to at least stay out of it instead of joining in the insanityfest. But such an assertion would require that it is only Tippia that is insanely driven to always be right whatever the cost, which would be an absurd assumption. If one person can be insane, two can.

Shadowsword
The Rough Riders
Ares Protectiva
Posted - 2011.07.07 12:55:00 - [68]
 

Originally by: Evenus Battuta
Edited by: Evenus Battuta on 07/07/2011 11:56:06
OP is a good example for the "pay for SP" side: When he paid the sub and had nothing to train, he feel robbed. I predict this will happen to many of you paying for some false illusion of 'fun future' and eventually find yourself juggled by skill system. You will be too shamed to admit then although.


Don't get me involved in your hair-splitting debate, please. I don't feel robbed of anything, and this arguing about paying for SP leaves me completely indifferent. As far as I'm concerned, it's only free bumps for my thread.

Maduin Ardens
Eve Innovations
Eternal Evocations
Posted - 2011.07.07 13:17:00 - [69]
 

Edited by: Maduin Ardens on 07/07/2011 13:17:12
Originally by: Cashcow Golden Goose

Even insane Tippia gains SP. Arguing that it's an option that people would knowingly choose to not gain SP is an appeal to insanity. Is their any latin for this type of argument? I don't know.

Appealing to insanity to make you right just looks weird. Have you read what you've typed?
Mostly it is insane people pay for things with no intention to have what they are paying for. When I pay for something, I am purchasing it. I am not earning sp buy claiming them, I am claiming what I purchase. This does not require appealling to insanity to justify as a truth. That is the main benefit it has over a Tippia Logic assertion.

I mean I don't blame you in any way, Tippia is a popular guy, talks a lot, most of it makes sense, everybody likes to back apparent winners, that's fine, but you have to accept that even winners screw up. Most people have the spine to say "oh lol, yeah, my bad" but when has Tippia ever? Never? One time? No, it's never. Because while there are appeals to insanity to grasp at, that's what Tippia will do. The winner backing fanboiz ought to have the presence of mind to at least stay out of it instead of joining in the insanityfest. But such an assertion would require that it is only Tippia that is insanely driven to always be right whatever the cost, which would be an absurd assumption. If one person can be insane, two can.


I am beginning to simply feel really sorry for how little you or anything you say matters, so I am going to go now, good luck to you, you're really going to need it.

Shinoe DeValo
Caldari
Paragon Fury
Posted - 2011.07.07 13:36:00 - [70]
 

ahhh too delicious. have to bite.

@Cashcow: as I understand you, as soon as I pay CCP my monthly fee, I can expect them to transfer me 64.800 SP/day then? Why did I train cybernetics to V then at all? Maybe I should petition to reimburse those SP because following your diction it's not my clones attributes that determine SP/hour ration but CCP actively handing out SP according to my abo. And of course I should mention the days where I didn't get the 64k SP, I mean if I automaically recieve them from CCP just because I subscribe, there's a clear unfairness.

is this really so hard to grasp? you get SP in relation to your attributes. CCP has nothing more to do with you gaining SP then letting some scripts do the math and count them SP up and up. of course you need to first pay to gain access to this mechanism - but nobody - not even tippia, denied that. and you may consider it insanity to not train any skill constantly. tippias point was, that CCP won't hold your hand and deal out SP if you do not activate a training. insane as this may sound, the theoretical idea of someone not training is still valid. if I, or example clonejump and forget to reactivate training for an hour, CCP certailny will not spend me some just because I paid my monthly fee.

Cashcow Golden Goose
Posted - 2011.07.07 14:25:00 - [71]
 

Edited by: Cashcow Golden Goose on 07/07/2011 14:27:01
Originally by: Shinoe DeValo
ahhh too delicious. have to bite.

@Cashcow: as I understand you, as soon as I pay CCP my monthly fee, I can expect them to transfer me 64.800 SP/day then?

The amount wasn't stipulated as an absolute.

Originally by: Shinoe DeValo
Why did I train cybernetics to V then at all?

No idea. That was your choice. You used the sp you had purchased to do it with.

Originally by: Shinoe DeValo
Maybe I should petition to reimburse those SP because following your diction it's not my clones attributes that determine SP/hour ration but CCP actively handing out SP according to my abo.

This thing you have written which is similar to a sentence doesn't make sense.

Originally by: Shinoe DeValo
And of course I should mention the days where I didn't get the 64k SP, I mean if I automaically recieve them from CCP just because I subscribe, there's a clear unfairness.

This thing you have written which is similar to a sentence doesn't make sense, but it seems to be assuming somebody told you how many skill points you are purchasing.

Originally by: Shinoe DeValo
is this really so hard to grasp?

The way you are structuring your ideas into words, it is impossible to grasp.

Originally by: Shinoe DeValo
you get SP in relation to your attributes.

You wouldn't have any attributes if you didn't purchase them from CCP, they have a worldwide enduring monopoly on attributes for characters inside the game of Eve and are the only people you can buy them from, no other company is in a position to sell you attributes that have relevance inside the game world.


Originally by: Shinoe DeValo
CCP has nothing more to do with you gaining SP then letting some scripts do the math and count them SP up and up.

Please, write me a script that gives me more SP.


Originally by: Shinoe DeValo
of course you need to first pay to gain access to this mechanism - but nobody - not even tippia, denied that. and you may consider it insanity to not train any skill constantly. tippias point was, that CCP won't hold your hand and deal out SP if you do not activate a training. insane as this may sound, the theoretical idea of someone not training is still valid. if I, or example clonejump and forget to reactivate training for an hour, CCP certailny will not spend me some just because I paid my monthly fee.

And I keep pointing out that no company will give you anything in a pure exchange of money that this insanity plea is advocating.

Pick any shop on the high street, run in, give money. See what happens.
You and many others are telling me that I do not purchase items, I earn them by claiming them, even though I handed over money for them.
I don't call that earning, I call that purchasing. Most normal people call that purchasing.

I purchase a newspaper. I do not purchase an opportunity to earn a newspaper by researching which newspaper I want, arranging my day to ensure there is an optimal time break in which to read it and have a plan with what to do with the newspaper after I have used it and then saying smartly to the shopkeeper "I would like this newspaper please". All those other concepts being added in as obfuscation by you, Tippia and the others are merely obfuscation and pleas to insanity to derive core focus on precisly how wrong he/you/they is/are.

Mark Sherlock
Posted - 2011.07.07 14:58:00 - [72]
 

Edited by: Mark Sherlock on 07/07/2011 14:58:48
This Cash dude is either trolling or trying to "win" an arguement off an arguement off an arguement, tryhard mode.

Herp Derp

Cebraio
Posted - 2011.07.07 15:10:00 - [73]
 

Originally by: Mark Sherlock
Edited by: Mark Sherlock on 07/07/2011 14:58:48
This Cash dude is trolling.


Fixed it for you. She has been here since the great outrage and won't stop trolling every thread that remotely touches CCP's business model or core game mechanics.

Cashcow Golden Goose
Posted - 2011.07.07 15:29:00 - [74]
 

Being wrong is a popular passtime for the Tippia fanclub. You're both wrong.

Cebraio
Posted - 2011.07.07 15:32:00 - [75]
 

ohai

<3 Tippia

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2011.07.07 15:51:00 - [76]
 

Edited by: Tippia on 07/07/2011 15:52:01
Originally by: Cashcow Golden Goose
You are using, as usual, insanity as a justification.
And you are, as usual, not answering the question or addressing the argument. Where is the insanity? What is the justification you're refering to?
Quote:
Give money to any company as a singular action and you will receive NOTHING.
…and I'm asking, if this is what happens, do you really, honestly consider it a case of "buying" something?
Quote:
Since you like analogies, because you think they explain things, which they don't, but here you go. [etc]
What are these analogies supposed to reference? What are they meant to exemplify? What are they in response to?
Quote:
In Tippia Logic, you cannot purchase things, you have to "earn" them by asking for them.
No, that seems to be your logic: that if get nothing in return for your money, you've bought something -- I'm simply asking how (and why) you make that interpretation? Personally, my logic tells me that if I don't get something, I haven't really bought anything, but have rather made a generous donation.

So I have to ask again: if I pay money for something and don't get it, have I bought it? If you give cash to CCP and then do nothing, what do they give you? In particular, how much SP do they give you?

Cashcow Golden Goose
Posted - 2011.07.07 16:08:00 - [77]
 

Originally by: Tippia
Edited by: Tippia on 07/07/2011 15:52:01
Originally by: Cashcow Golden Goose
You are using, as usual, insanity as a justification.
And you are, as usual, not answering the question or addressing the argument. Where is the insanity? What is the justification you're refering to?
Quote:
Give money to any company as a singular action and you will receive NOTHING.
…and I'm asking, if this is what happens, do you really, honestly consider it a case of "buying" something?
Quote:
Since you like analogies, because you think they explain things, which they don't, but here you go. [etc]
What are these analogies supposed to reference? What are they meant to exemplify? What are they in response to?
Quote:
In Tippia Logic, you cannot purchase things, you have to "earn" them by asking for them.
No, that seems to be your logic: that if get nothing in return for your money, you've bought something -- I'm simply asking how (and why) you make that interpretation? Personally, my logic tells me that if I don't get something, I haven't really bought anything, but have rather made a generous donation.

So I have to ask again: if I pay money for something and don't get it, have I bought it? If you give cash to CCP and then do nothing, what do they give you? In particular, how much SP do they give you?


What you did was, showed no interest in or understanding of what you are told, ignored it comepletely, extracted some bits you have smart alec one liners for, then restated your flawed question again. It's been answered. I apologise for not having the required vocabulary to explain the difference between purchase and earning.

It's nearly home time, I shan't talk to you while I'm not being paid, so you can have the last word of the day, I know having the last word is of exceptional importance to you along with being plain wrong but not accepting it while ever you can use insane and unreasonable justifications like "No I don't want that thing I just paid for".

I almost look forward to whatever nonsense you managed to trot out. No, actually I definitely look forward to it. It actually fills in gaps in the day to watch strange people being strange.

Mortania
Minmatar
No Compromise
Gentlemen's Agreement
Posted - 2011.07.07 16:31:00 - [78]
 

You guys should see in what amazing shape I'm in. I've been paying my gym for years now, my muscles are HUGE!

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2011.07.07 17:28:00 - [79]
 

Originally by: Cashcow Golden Goose
What you did was
…repeat a question that you didn't answer. So don't be surprised when it appears again in this post.
Quote:
then restated your flawed question again.
How is it flawed? I'm simply trying to make you express how widely you interpret the word "buy".
Quote:
It's been answered.
Then it should be trivial to link to it, copy/past it, and respond with a simple yes or no. If I pay money for something and don't get that something in return, have I actually bought anything?
Quote:
I apologise for not having the required vocabulary to explain the difference between purchase and earning.
You don't have to. You only have to explain how giving away money in return for something you don't actually get constitutes a purchase.
Quote:
[…] you can use insane and unreasonable justifications like "No I don't want that thing I just paid for".
Good thing that I'm not making any such justification then. In fact, I'm saying the exact opposite: that you are given precisely what you pay for, nothing more. I'd even go so far as to say that not only are you given precisely what you pay for, but it is impossible to decline what you receive as part of this transaction. SP is not it, though.

So, once more for emphasis: if I pay money for something and don't get it, have I bought it? If you give cash to CCP and then do nothing, what do they give you? In particular, how much SP do they give you?

Sieges
Posted - 2011.07.07 18:00:00 - [80]
 

Originally by: Maduin Ardens
WTB

- Combat version of Orca for Empire space, i.e. sub capital with no jump drive, but ship bay, and combat drones, maybe even fighters.

I WTB this too. With fighters please.

Dalryn
Posted - 2011.07.07 22:20:00 - [81]
 

TL;DR big time

Vasha Rin
Posted - 2011.07.07 22:33:00 - [82]
 

I like the idea of training skills for Walking in Stations, like emotes and interactivity options. The books could even be sold for Aurum. I think most capsuleers will have very poor social skills from being locked up in their computers/ships all day, and won't know the first thing about real human interaction.

There could be a Personal Interaction skill group, including the skills:

Facial Emoting
Social Etiquette
Personal Space Calculation (allows you to orbit closer to human targets)
Dancing (each level allows you to store an additional Dance Fitting)
Pickpocketing (allows you to steal some Aurum from other players)
Real Life Trolling

Enjoy!


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