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Jonathan Ferguson
JC Ferguson and Son Ltd
Ferguson Alliance
Posted - 2011.07.06 04:58:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Jonathan Ferguson on 06/07/2011 05:19:17
Linky

Mittens had a copy of Fearless a month in advance. His thoughts:

"I had access to a copy of Fearless about a month before it was leaked, and I said, ‘Well, this is going to explode when it gets out if there is a leak from CCP.’ But it’s actually not that big of a deal if you go through it line-by-line."

Not that big of a deal.

"Alex stated that the EVE Online community took that to heart and demonstrated their capability to respond with action and not only words by mass canceling their game accounts. As a result, Alex points out, players have learned that “when players begin to react to a controversy at the level of unsubscribing from the game CCP listens and CCP listens very quickly”."

I think it's time to get CCP to listen and listen very quickly ... AGAIN.

"CCP was also pushed on some of the language found in the recently released statement, namely the mention that “game breaking” items or enhancements would not be sold on the Noble Exchange. Many in the community have found this language somewhat vague and it has created many additional questions since, such as whether or not items that serve purely functional or convenience purposes would also be considered “game breaking.” ... The broader discussion of what is or isn’t “game breaking” was deemed too lengthy a topic for the venue."

So as expected, we've already moved past vanity-only and on to non-game-breaking.

"Alex appeared to approve of Zulu’s assessment of the talks, but he also took a moment to remind concerned players that as a player he was very publicly vocal in terms of going up against CCP even prior to being Chairman of the CSM and that they would continue to “guard the players’ interests” going forward ..."

This is the same Alex who said today on twitter: "I represent those who voted for me, not 'everyone'. Don't give me your entitled voter schtick, you're late to this party."

"But can CCP Games survive without resorting to selling “non-vanity” items that give players some sort of advantage? Zulu offers an interesting response ..."

I don't want 'interesting responses,' I'd like the truth.

Zulu: "EVE has been running for eight years now, hoping, we do our jobs right it’s going to be running for 80 more. I don’t want to put the person doing my job 80 years from now into a position where I’ve promised something."

If an 80-year commitment is too much, how about a 5 year commitment? I'd settle for that.

"Aside from concerns over what will make up the NeX inventory, players also balked at the pricing of some of the items in the store. Dubbed “Monoclegate” by some, players sharply decried the existence of an $80 monocle that could be purchased in the NeX, and that coupled with the leaked memo fueled fears that the exorbitant pricing seen so far would be a continuing trend. To address these concerns, CCP Zulu offered a small preview of a dev blog that CCP will be releasing possibly over the next few days (along with a couple of new NeX items) that should make the company’s plans along these lines a bit more transparent. Zulu explains that there are three tiers to their pricing strategy, a low tier, a mid tier, and a high tier, ..."

Problem is, the monocle (a common device found throughout New Eden) isn't in the high tier.

Mittens: "I don’t really feel terribly upset about the screw-ups of the Noble Exchange. I am irked that we weren’t consulted about the strategy ..."

I'm not mad that CCP is a joke. I'm mad they aren't stroking my Epeen.

"Addressing questions surrounding the identity and mindset of the leaker, Zulu wasn’t able to say much, but Alex was ready with a rather blunt assessment ... the timing of the leaks, the fact that they leaked to EVE News 24 just the day after Incarna had hit. The timing was very much, what I would call in a somewhat indelicate way, it was a rat-f**k."

We differ on who the rat-**** is

Important Person
Posted - 2011.07.06 05:11:00 - [2]
 

Edited by: Important Person on 06/07/2011 05:11:31
First? Winnar!

Btw I think you're wrong.

Jonathan Ferguson
JC Ferguson and Son Ltd
Ferguson Alliance
Posted - 2011.07.06 05:13:00 - [3]
 

Originally by: Important Person
Edited by: Important Person on 06/07/2011 05:11:31
First? Winnar!

Btw I think you're wrong.


Welcome. Yes, I got that impression while you trolled my other thread. Would you like a cookie?

Shivus Tao
Minmatar
Broski Enterprises
Elite Space Guild
Posted - 2011.07.06 05:21:00 - [4]
 

Edited by: Shivus Tao on 06/07/2011 05:22:15
I find the comments on why ccp removed ship spinning to be interesting. The thought that forcibly ripping a pilot from his ship on docking would make the game "seamless" is laughable. Either it's damage control, or just a hilarious oversight by the devs. Removal of choice or even the illusion of choice in a game detracts from a seamless and immersive experience.

Devs, Think of station interaction as a series of stairs. The first step is pressing the docking button, the third step is CQ, the fourth step will eventually be walking in stations. The hanger view served as the intermediate second step between docking and CQ. Removing it caused the seams to show far more than leaving it in completely unmodified would have.

It was heartening to read that the hanger view may be making a return. Although that may be reading a bit too much into the wording. As the return of ship spinning could mean ccp is just going to let us spin the ship from our balcony.

Jonathan Ferguson
JC Ferguson and Son Ltd
Ferguson Alliance
Posted - 2011.07.06 05:30:00 - [5]
 

Edited by: Jonathan Ferguson on 06/07/2011 08:43:27
Mittens: "So, somebody was very much waiting, poised to leak this at the most dangerous time, in terms of the Incarna rollout. And so it seems clear to me that they do have an agenda. But that’s my side, that’s my take.”"

The agenda: Making CCP and EVE suck less. Oh, the bastard! Nail him to the cross! (figuratively or in-game if sarcasm isn't enough)

"Features such as ‘ship spinning’ were removed as a result of the launch of Incarna, ... but Zulu explains that this idea of players directly docking into their Captains Quarters (and the subsequent removal of ship spinning as a result) was not due to CCP wishing to force people to use a certain feature, but actually has to do with CCP’s philosophy of creating a seamless experience throughout the game."

Liar. Liar. Pants on fire. Teadaze fought you tooth-and-nail over precisely this point. He quit the game he loved over this. You're forcing us to use it because it's crap, and you know it, but you hope that if we're forced to use it we'll get used to it and buy your barbie clothes.

"In terms of where this latest situation ranks in EVE’s history, Zulu doesn’t appear to think too much of it, stating, “Not to be dismissive, but I think EVE has seen more defining moments than this. ... This is, this is a bit of noise."

Not to be dismissive? Uh, too late. Guess we'll have to try again.

"Alex seemed to concur, though he concedes that this was one of EVE’s messier controversies. It doesn’t rank as high as something as the “T20 scandal” in his eyes because nothing has really come of it, ..."

... yet? Time for round 2 lads. Take a deep breath. Put your mouth-piece back in. Keep your chin tucked.

"As for the rest of it? Well, “The Mittani” doesn’t mince words:

“On EVE-O and other forums there are a minority of people who are whiny little babies. This is politics. The CSM is a political entity; this means that after any situation you are always going to have a minority of loud people who are saying that anything EVE accomplished is bullsh*t and that it’s all just window dressing and herd-derf.

"I spend a lot of time on Failheap Challenge, which is a forum for primarily the most bitter of that long tail of bitter players. I don’t really give a sh*t what they say, in fact, if you look at any of my posts in dealing with them, I actively go out of my way to antagonize them because I’m a cruel person and I enjoy making people like that angry, and from a political perspective it’s also good to marginalize them.

"They are always going to be there. It is not relevant on any level, in any democratic process what the lunatic fringe thinks. Just look at, in America, the Tea Party, the John Birch Society, or what have you. Any of these isolated movements, on the fringes, they are very loud, but they don’t actually impact sh*t. So, that’s pretty much my view of that."

You don't make me mad, mittens. You make me laugh.

T'amber Anomandari Demaleon
Posted - 2011.07.06 05:37:00 - [6]
 

thanks for the link and post.

Jonathan Ferguson
JC Ferguson and Son Ltd
Ferguson Alliance
Posted - 2011.07.06 05:37:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Shivus Tao
It was heartening to read that the hangar view may be making a return. Although that may be reading a bit too much into the wording. As the return of ship spinning could mean ccp is just going to let us spin the ship from our balcony.


That's precisely what it means. There's no 'could' about it and I believe they've said as much.

SilentSkills
Gallente
Tax Evaders Inc.
Posted - 2011.07.06 05:38:00 - [8]
 

Informative 7/10

Florestan Bronstein
24th Imperial Crusade
Posted - 2011.07.06 06:10:00 - [9]
 


I am very confused why mittens feels "appalled" by the Hilmar mail given that his position towards the forum community seems to be the same as Hilmar's?

RAW23
Posted - 2011.07.06 06:15:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Florestan Bronstein

I am very confused why mittens feels "appalled" by the Hilmar mail given that his position towards the forum community seems to be the same as Hilmar's?


He's probably appalled by the poor 'messaging' control.

Either that or he is a manipulative hypocrite lacking in intellectual coherence. Wink

Indusy
Posted - 2011.07.06 06:20:00 - [11]
 

Your post is biased and manipulative.

"The broader discussion of what is or isn’t “game breaking” was deemed too lengthy a topic for the venue but Zulu did note that this topic was something discussed at length during the two-day CSM summit and that the CSM basically got a chance to see where CCP was going with the plan and approved of that direction."

Why would you omit that? Rolling Eyes

Jonathan Ferguson
JC Ferguson and Son Ltd
Ferguson Alliance
Posted - 2011.07.06 06:23:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Indusy
Your post is biased and manipulative.

"The broader discussion of what is or isn’t “game breaking” was deemed too lengthy a topic for the venue but Zulu did note that this topic was something discussed at length during the two-day CSM summit and that the CSM basically got a chance to see where CCP was going with the plan and approved of that direction."

Why would you omit that? Rolling Eyes


The re-subscribers (generally speaking) were led to believe that CCP had backed away from non-vanity MT. They (CCP) haven't. If people want to read the whole article, I've linked the whole article at the very beginning. What this CSM approves of or doesn't approve of is no concern of mine.

Ehdward
Caldari
Nex Exercitus
Raiden.
Posted - 2011.07.06 06:29:00 - [13]
 

This game is horrible and useless and beyond dead.

Time to rage post on the forum.

CLONE 9
Amarr
Viziam
Posted - 2011.07.06 06:41:00 - [14]
 

What do you expect to get out of this Jonathan?

Is this about generating interest in you or are you trying to fix the game by 'stirring things up'? If it's the former - join an NPC corp like me because you have a captive audience in corp chat.

Seriously - why not take 5 minutes to bullet point what you want. Give us your vision. Keep it realistic and concise. That will save you having to generate new threads on a daily basis and people will believe that you're trying to do something positive rather than just trolling or stirring up hatred.


Indusy
Posted - 2011.07.06 06:46:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Jonathan Ferguson

The re-subscribers (generally speaking) were led to believe that CCP had backed away from non-vanity MT. They (CCP) haven't.


You may want to read This.

Constantinus Maximus
Paxian Expeditionary Force
Posted - 2011.07.06 06:55:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Indusy
Originally by: Jonathan Ferguson

The re-subscribers (generally speaking) were led to believe that CCP had backed away from non-vanity MT. They (CCP) haven't.


You may want to read This.


hehe your point proven.

Kane Molou
Posted - 2011.07.06 07:14:00 - [17]
 

My Problem with this is that you basically have the people who are meant to be supporting US being OUR voice sitting there and saying through their chairman that they don't give a **** what we think. When you get down to it that is what 'Mittens' is saying both in the press conference and then on Twitter.

The big other thing that gets on my nerves is CCP and Zulu claim that they where going to communicate with US, and yet once again interviews etc etc given with information given out that the player base still doesn't have.

On top of that is the constant misrepresentation as to what the 'protest' was about, they keep going on about it being over the price of stuff on the AUR store etc. But when it comes down to it you'll find that most of the 'complaints' on the forums and even in game of late are:

1. No real life money Advantage in the form of 'goldern bullets' / items that affect the actual game-play through real life money (other then the current selling of plex for isk style exchange, any advantage must come from players MAKING the advantage in the in game economics).
2. The fact that Incarna was released clearly with entire sections rushed or missing.
2a. The fact that Incarna removed functionality and forced WIS onto people.
2b. The fact that WIS is that much of a resource hog that it can cause machines to have excessive heat issues.
2c. The fact that to simply unload ore/rearm/pick up something you've already brought from a staton, you are forced into your body.
2d. The fact that the LOAD times between space - station increase 10x's.
3. That CCP has failed to address a large number of BUGS and Balancing issues yet again, instead they appear to just throw more features that are not finished at the player base.
3a. That CCP continues to ignore: Faction Warfare being worthless and incomplete, Hybrids being massively underpowered/unbalanced, Drakes being overpowered, 0.0 space being nurfed, High sec being nerfed, etc. etc.
4. That when contraversy DID break rather then come out and request what the player base was upset about, request a dialog CCP Attacked the Player base and Hilmar wrote an email that (while not intended to be seen by us, was) abused the player base, and then except for Zulu's half appology after getting almost ripped to shreds, still has not openly appologised for many of the issues.
5. That a LOT of the player base does NOT want Micro-Transactions brought into the game at all.
6. That CCP has not addressed the fact that a lot of Eve Players feel like we are being forced to beta test features for World of Darkness Online.
7. That CCP will NOT address the Manpower Inbalance between Eve and it's other projects.
8. That CCP has been very LAX in communications with the Player base in the way of Dev Blogs etc that explain where things may be going, instead they simply do it and wonder why the player base gets upset.
9. That the CSM at times acts like they are 'Leet' and we owe them something, when in fact they are meant to be OUR (as in the COLLECTIVE PLAYER BASE) voice to CCP not just their own.
10. That features players do want completed or added just continue to be ignored despite other games offering them re: Ship painting/Customization, etc.
10a. That some of these 'long promised' features are now being totted as 'You have to pay to get them' despite other games offering them for free.

I could continue the list but you wanted dot points there you go, dot points over the issues.

JC Ferguson
Federal Navy Academy
Posted - 2011.07.06 07:16:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: CLONE 9
What do you expect to get out of this Jonathan?

Is this about generating interest in you or are you trying to fix the game by 'stirring things up'? If it's the former - join an NPC corp like me because you have a captive audience in corp chat.

Seriously - why not take 5 minutes to bullet point what you want. Give us your vision. Keep it realistic and concise. That will save you having to generate new threads on a daily basis and people will believe that you're trying to do something positive rather than just trolling or stirring up hatred.


I'll get on that NPC corp thing ASAP.

I'm just expressing my PoV. If people don't like my posts, they can not read them or troll them. I don't think generating 'new threads on a daily basis' is excessive, but YMMV.

Important Person
Posted - 2011.07.06 07:24:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: JC Ferguson
Originally by: CLONE 9
What do you expect to get out of this Jonathan?

Is this about generating interest in you or are you trying to fix the game by 'stirring things up'? If it's the former - join an NPC corp like me because you have a captive audience in corp chat.

Seriously - why not take 5 minutes to bullet point what you want. Give us your vision. Keep it realistic and concise. That will save you having to generate new threads on a daily basis and people will believe that you're trying to do something positive rather than just trolling or stirring up hatred.


I'll get on that NPC corp thing ASAP.

I'm just expressing my PoV. If people don't like my posts, they can not read them or troll them. I don't think generating 'new threads on a daily basis' is excessive, but YMMV.


So many alts and they're all ugly. Shocked

The Offerer
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.07.06 07:24:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Jonathan Ferguson
The re-subscribers (generally speaking) were led to believe that CCP had backed away from non-vanity MT. They (CCP) haven't.


Well, you are forgetting one pretty important thing.

As someone already said it, it's time to see what they do, not what they say. That statement works both ways and CCP knows it. Wink

Oh, and yeah... players/subscribers are the ones who have the power to decide whether some change is game breaking or not (by paying their subscriptions or leaving). Don't forget that.

I'm still an optimist when it comes to CCP's decisions about the game and convinced that the whole situation we had recently is a misunderstanding caused by revealing partial information taken out of context. After all, the management of one of the oldest MMO's on the market can not be complete noobs when it comes to satisfying customers. With a little help (or riotsSmile) from the community, in terms of guiding CCP's decisions in a way that will benefit and not hurt the game, this game and CCP will have a bright future.



Jonathan Ferguson
JC Ferguson and Son Ltd
Ferguson Alliance
Posted - 2011.07.06 07:33:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: The Offerer
Originally by: Jonathan Ferguson
The re-subscribers (generally speaking) were led to believe that CCP had backed away from non-vanity MT. They (CCP) haven't.


Well, you are forgetting one pretty important thing.

As someone already said it, it's time to see what they do, not what they say. That statement works both ways and CCP knows it. Wink

Oh, and yeah... players/subscribers are the ones who have the power to decide whether some change is game breaking or not (by paying their subscriptions or leaving). Don't forget that.

I'm still an optimist when it comes to CCP's decisions about the game and convinced that the whole situation we had recently is a misunderstanding caused by revealing partial information taken out of context. After all, the management of one of the oldest MMO's on the market can not be complete noobs when it comes to satisfying customers. With a little help (or riotsSmile) from the community, in terms of guiding CCP's decisions in a way that will benefit and not hurt the game, this game and CCP will have a bright future.

I don't know how I can say this any more plainly: Riots and complaining don't mean **** all. CCP doesn't give a flying **** what you think or what you say. Only unsubscribing matters. Hilmar has told you that. Mittens has told you that. Who else do you need to tell you that?

As for future plans, if future plans were really vanity-only, would we need these 2 paragraphs?

"The broader discussion of what is or isn’t “game breaking” was deemed too lengthy a topic for the venue but Zulu did note that this topic was something discussed at length during the two-day CSM summit and that the CSM basically got a chance to see where CCP was going with the plan and approved of that direction.

Alex appeared to approve of Zulu’s assessment of the talks, but he also took a moment to remind concerned players that as a player he was very publicly vocal in terms of going up against CCP even prior to being Chairman of the CSM and that they would continue to “guard the players’ interests” going forward should something appear on the Noble Exchange that is considered “game breaking.”"

No mention of vanity. The goalposts have been moved to "game-breaking".

CCP lied. AGAIN. Why am I not surprised?

San Severina
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.07.06 07:39:00 - [22]
 

Edited by: San Severina on 06/07/2011 08:57:55
Edited by: San Severina on 06/07/2011 08:14:02
With regards to Zulu's take on ship spinning, it seems he's adopting a rather condescending approach to the players, maybe he's Mitten's mentor atm.

Originally by: AkJon Ferguson
Liar. Liar. Pants on fire. Teadaze fought you tooth-and-nail over precisely this point. He quit the game he loved over this. You're forcing us to use it because it's crap, and you know it, but you hope that if we're forced to use it we'll get used to it and buy your barbie clothes.


Pretty much.

Seems about what I expected, just skimmed through it, will read again soon, Mittens might have had a few stiffeners before hand to facilitate the golden roll he got himself on, it was like a window into the soul of a moron. You'd have to think he will regret that tomorrow even if we are just EvE players & marginal losers or whatever!

all in all very entertaining, your point about the ridiculous 80 year timeframe is valid too, if there were any actual professional journalists there i doubt he woulda got away with that little nugget. At least it give the doubters something to ponder! I mean do you need it spelled out people, they will not commit to vanity items only & as AkJon has pointed out the goal posts have been moved to non-game breaking!! Food for thought.Wink

Edit; trying to make more sense Confused

Jonathan Ferguson
JC Ferguson and Son Ltd
Ferguson Alliance
Posted - 2011.07.06 07:40:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Kane Molou
My Problem with this is that you basically have the people who are meant to be supporting US being OUR voice sitting there and saying through their chairman that they don't give a **** what we think. When you get down to it that is what 'Mittens' is saying both in the press conference and then on Twitter.

The big other thing that gets on my nerves is CCP and Zulu claim that they were going to communicate with US, and yet once again interviews etc etc given with information given out that the player base still doesn't have.

On top of that is the constant misrepresentation as to what the 'protest' was about, they keep going on about it being over the price of stuff on the AUR store etc. But when it comes down to it you'll find that most of the 'complaints' on the forums and even in game of late are:

1. No real life money Advantage in the form of 'golden bullets' / items that affect the actual game-play through real life money (other then the current selling of plex for isk style exchange, any advantage must come from players MAKING the advantage in the in game economics).

2. The fact that Incarna was released clearly with entire sections rushed or missing.

2a. The fact that Incarna removed functionality and forced WIS onto people.

2b. The fact that WIS is such a resource hog that it can cause machines to have excessive heat issues.

2c. The fact that to simply unload ore/rearm/pick up something you've already brought from a station, you are forced into your avatar.

2d. The fact that the LOAD times between space - station has increased 10x.

3. That CCP has failed to address a large number of BUGS and Balancing issues yet again, instead they appear to just throw more features that are not finished at the player base.

3a. That CCP continues to ignore: Faction Warfare being worthless and incomplete, Hybrids being massively underpowered/unbalanced, Drakes being overpowered, 0.0 space being nerfed, High sec being nerfed, etc. etc.

4. That when controversy DID break rather then come out and request what the player base was upset about and request a dialog, CCP Attacked the Player base and Hilmar wrote an email that (while not intended to be seen by us, was) abused the player base, and then except for Zulu's half apology after getting almost ripped to shreds, still has not openly apologized for many of the issues.

5. That a LOT of the player base does NOT want Micro-Transactions brought into the game at all.

6. That CCP has not addressed the fact that a lot of Eve Players feel like we are being forced to beta test features for World of Darkness Online.

7. That CCP will NOT address the Manpower Inbalance between Eve and it's other projects.

8. That CCP has been very LAX in communications with the Player base in the way of Dev Blogs etc that explain where things may be going, instead they simply do it and wonder why the player base gets upset.

9. That the CSM at times acts like they are 'Leet' and we owe them something, when in fact they are meant to be OUR (as in the COLLECTIVE PLAYER BASE) voice to CCP not just their own.

10. That features players do want completed or added just continue to be ignored despite other games offering them re: Ship painting/Customization, etc.

10a. That some of these 'long promised' features are now being touted as 'You have to pay to get them' despite other games offering them for free.

I could continue the list but you wanted dot points there you go, dot points over the issues.

Excellent post (I cleaned it up a bit, hope that's OK.)

Smoking Blunts
Posted - 2011.07.06 08:07:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Kane Molou
My Problem with this is that you basically have the people who are meant to be supporting US being OUR voice sitting there and saying through their chairman that they don't give a **** what we think. When you get down to it that is what 'Mittens' is saying both in the press conference and then on Twitter.

The big other thing that gets on my nerves is CCP and Zulu claim that they were going to communicate with US, and yet once again interviews etc etc given with information given out that the player base still doesn't have.

On top of that is the constant misrepresentation as to what the 'protest' was about, they keep going on about it being over the price of stuff on the AUR store etc. But when it comes down to it you'll find that most of the 'complaints' on the forums and even in game of late are:

1. No real life money Advantage in the form of 'golden bullets' / items that affect the actual game-play through real life money (other then the current selling of plex for isk style exchange, any advantage must come from players MAKING the advantage in the in game economics).

2. The fact that Incarna was released clearly with entire sections rushed or missing.

2a. The fact that Incarna removed functionality and forced WIS onto people.

2b. The fact that WIS is such a resource hog that it can cause machines to have excessive heat issues.

2c. The fact that to simply unload ore/rearm/pick up something you've already brought from a station, you are forced into your avatar.

2d. The fact that the LOAD times between space - station has increased 10x.

3. That CCP has failed to address a large number of BUGS and Balancing issues yet again, instead they appear to just throw more features that are not finished at the player base.

3a. That CCP continues to ignore: Faction Warfare being worthless and incomplete, Hybrids being massively underpowered/unbalanced, Drakes being overpowered, 0.0 space being nerfed, High sec being nerfed, etc. etc.

4. That when controversy DID break rather then come out and request what the player base was upset about and request a dialog, CCP Attacked the Player base and Hilmar wrote an email that (while not intended to be seen by us, was) abused the player base, and then except for Zulu's half apology after getting almost ripped to shreds, still has not openly apologized for many of the issues.

5. That a LOT of the player base does NOT want Micro-Transactions brought into the game at all.

6. That CCP has not addressed the fact that a lot of Eve Players feel like we are being forced to beta test features for World of Darkness Online.

7. That CCP will NOT address the Manpower Inbalance between Eve and it's other projects.

8. That CCP has been very LAX in communications with the Player base in the way of Dev Blogs etc that explain where things may be going, instead they simply do it and wonder why the player base gets upset.

9. That the CSM at times acts like they are 'Leet' and we owe them something, when in fact they are meant to be OUR (as in the COLLECTIVE PLAYER BASE) voice to CCP not just their own.

10. That features players do want completed or added just continue to be ignored despite other games offering them re: Ship painting/Customization, etc.

10a. That some of these 'long promised' features are now being touted as 'You have to pay to get them' despite other games offering them for free.
quote]

my feelings on this whole PR rug sweaping exercise are listed above. i get angry as ccp seam to not actually give a crap about rolling out 3rd rate expansions. been here since 05 and uptil the last 18 months or so belived ccp gave a crap about eve and the players. this whole issue has really confimed to me something that has been building for that time. we are now just being milked for cashw hile beta testing crap for WOD.

love eve, hate ccp's contempt for the player base and there current direction

The Offerer
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.07.06 08:10:00 - [25]
 

Edited by: The Offerer on 06/07/2011 08:14:58
Originally by: Jonathan Ferguson

I don't know how I can say this any more plainly: Riots and complaining don't mean **** all. CCP doesn't give a flying **** what you think or what you say. Only unsubscribing matters. Hilmar has told you that. Mittens has told you that. Who else do you need to tell you that?


No one really Smile. I wasn't the one rioting. I was one of the guys who tried to post constructive feedback and explain to all, not just CCP but the players who couldn't see what's behind MT shop too, why it's bad to go the MT way and how it will reflect the gameplay, game itself and all subscribers. The crisis was enough for me to not resubscribe my four industrial accounts, because at that moment I couldn't see clearly the future of the game yet alone the future of in-game industry. I mean, what's the point of having industrial characters if there's a cash->item way.

For the time being, my industrial accounts are still inactive because I've lost my in-game material suppliers. Until I arrange a new deal with my previous suppliers or find someone else, the accounts will stay inactive. The time spent out of subscription is the by-product of the lack of communication and sadly CCP have to pay it. That's how the game works... You don't have game content unless players make it.


Quote:
As for future plans, if future plans were really vanity-only, would we need these 2 paragraphs?

"The broader discussion of what is or isn’t “game breaking” was deemed too lengthy a topic for the venue but Zulu did note that this topic was something discussed at length during the two-day CSM summit and that the CSM basically got a chance to see where CCP was going with the plan and approved of that direction.

Alex appeared to approve of Zulu’s assessment of the talks, but he also took a moment to remind concerned players that as a player he was very publicly vocal in terms of going up against CCP even prior to being Chairman of the CSM and that they would continue to “guard the players’ interests” going forward should something appear on the Noble Exchange that is considered “game breaking.”"

No mention of vanity. The goalposts have been moved to "game-breaking".

CCP lied. AGAIN. Why am I not surprised?


There are a lot of things that can be considered non-vanity AND non-game-breaking. Like multi-player Incarna bars, for example. The important thing is that current features, EVE's core features, stay out of any MT plans whatsoever.

After all, players still have the last word when it comes to deciding what feature is game-breaking and what feature is not. The input from the community in the exact same form as I've done it - by posting constructive feedback, educating CCP and other players and taking action by temporarily closing the accounts (as an extreme measure) - is what can guide EVE and CCP to success. The riots are just in-game representation of disappointment, uncertainty and fear for the future of the game. The riots are not the main event, I agree with you on that point, but it can make an echo that couldn't be just ignored by players (that were not familiar with the events) or any other party (including any future potential subscribers).

Jonathan Ferguson
JC Ferguson and Son Ltd
Ferguson Alliance
Posted - 2011.07.06 08:19:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: The Offerer
Originally by: Jonathan Ferguson

I don't know how I can say this any more plainly: Riots and complaining don't mean **** all. CCP doesn't give a flying **** what you think or what you say. Only unsubscribing matters. Hilmar has told you that. Mittens has told you that. Who else do you need to tell you that?


No one really Smile. I wasn't the one rioting. I was one of the guys who tried to post constructive feedback and explain to all, not just CCP but the players who couldn't see what's behind MT shop too, why it's bad to go the MT way and how it will reflect the gameplay, game itself and all subscribers. The crisis was enough for me to not resubscribe my four industrial accounts, because at that moment I couldn't see clearly the future of the game yet alone the future of in-game industry. I mean, what's the point of having industrial characters if there's a cash->item way.

For the time being, my industrial accounts are still inactive because I've lost my in-game material suppliers. Until I arrange a new deal with my previous suppliers or find someone else, the accounts will stay inactive. The time spent out of subscription is the by-product of the lack of communication and sadly CCP have to pay it. That's how the game works... You don't have game content unless players make it.


Quote:
As for future plans, if future plans were really vanity-only, would we need these 2 paragraphs?

"The broader discussion of what is or isn’t “game breaking” was deemed too lengthy a topic for the venue but Zulu did note that this topic was something discussed at length during the two-day CSM summit and that the CSM basically got a chance to see where CCP was going with the plan and approved of that direction.

Alex appeared to approve of Zulu’s assessment of the talks, but he also took a moment to remind concerned players that as a player he was very publicly vocal in terms of going up against CCP even prior to being Chairman of the CSM and that they would continue to “guard the players’ interests” going forward should something appear on the Noble Exchange that is considered “game breaking.”"

No mention of vanity. The goalposts have been moved to "game-breaking".

CCP lied. AGAIN. Why am I not surprised?


There are a lot of things that can be considered non-vanity AND non-game-breaking. Like multi-player Incarna bars, for example. The important thing is that current features, EVE's core features, stay out of any MT plans whatsoever.

After all, players still have the last word when it comes to deciding what feature is game-breaking and what feature is not. The input from the community in the exact same form as I've done it - by posting constructive feedback, educating CCP and other players and taking action by temporarily closing the accounts (as an extreme measure) - is what can guide EVE and CCP to success. The riots are just in-game representation of disappointment, uncertainty and fear for the future of the game. The riots are not the main event, I agree with you on that point, but it can make an echo that couldn't be just ignored by players (that were not familiar with the events) or any other party (including any future subscribers).


Sorry, I was a little curt with you. You've obviously given this a lot of thought. (When I read people saying stuff like "I'm still an optimist when it comes to CCP's decisions ..." I have a tendency to skim over the rest and dismiss what they have to say as either fanboism or White Knight troll. You are obviously neither. Thanks for the great post.)

Redblade
Reikoku
Cascade Imminent
Posted - 2011.07.06 08:22:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: Jonathan Ferguson
Stuffs


Fixed a tl;dr for you.

Louis deGuerre
Gallente
Malevolence.
Posted - 2011.07.06 08:28:00 - [28]
 

"...but Zulu explains that this idea of players directly docking into their Captains Quarters (and the subsequent removal of ship spinning as a result) was not due to CCP wishing to force people to use a certain feature, but actually has to do with CCP’s philosophy of creating a seamless experience throughout the game."

I call total bull****.

"With that said, they’ve heard your feedback on these now-lost features (and even discussed them in detail with the CSM) and they will be looking at ways to return them to the game over the coming months."

I'll definitely look at CCP's actions not words here.

San Severina
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.07.06 08:32:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: The Offerer
Originally by: Jonathan Ferguson
The re-subscribers (generally speaking) were led to believe that CCP had backed away from non-vanity MT. They (CCP) haven't.


Well, you are forgetting one pretty important thing.

As someone already said it, it's time to see what they do, not what they say. That statement works both ways and CCP knows it. Wink

Oh, and yeah... players/subscribers are the ones who have the power to decide whether some change is game breaking or not (by paying their subscriptions or leaving). Don't forget that.

I'm still an optimist when it comes to CCP's decisions about the game and convinced that the whole situation we had recently is a misunderstanding caused by revealing partial information taken out of context. After all, the management of one of the oldest MMO's on the market can not be complete noobs when it comes to satisfying customers. With a little help (or riotsSmile) from the community, in terms of guiding CCP's decisions in a way that will benefit and not hurt the game, this game and CCP will have a bright future.





Beg to differ, all the information I've seen to date seems to indicate they are not only complete noobs, but directionless, unimaginative, greedy & stupid complete noobs.

I think most companies would have to work pretty hard to screw the pooch as hard as these guys have & they've been doing it for years.

Unfortunately or fortunately for them the player base has kept paying & playing despite CCP's best efforts to turn them away but I think their time is at hand, the players, even the only casually interested ones, will begin to see the Emperor is not only butt naked but stone cold bug fvck crazy to boot, if they keep attracting this level of scrutiny & they will IMO.

This is only the beginning of something much much bigger IMO.

WisdomLikeSilence
The Cursed Navy
Important Internet Spaceship League
Posted - 2011.07.06 08:32:00 - [30]
 

Is this a Boost Gallente thread?


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