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blankseplocked Automated arena, tournaments and the low-ship-consumption-issue
 
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Lady Spank
Amarr
In Praise Of Shadows
Posted - 2011.07.07 11:40:00 - [121]
 

Originally by: Taipion
You still dont get the basic idea, instance means, no chance to use scan or whatever, as there is NO interaction between the fight-participants and everyone else.
Having this in a dedicated system, where all the fighters gather, what advantage could you get even if it would be possible?!

Instanced means, no interaction in either direction, so its the same as being docked, just that some of the (up to) 2x10 ships will be lost.


I get it perfectly and there should be no instancing for fights in Eve regardless of where this safe environment occurs. It is absolutely nothing like being docked and as the poster 2 up said it destroys PVP. That you can't understand this shows a lack of understanding of what Eve is all about.

You are entitled to your opinion that it would be good or fun but to say it is harmless is laughable.

Regardless this is something CCP will never implement as thankfully they understand the game better than you do.

Gwenywell Shumuku
Posted - 2011.07.07 11:41:00 - [122]
 

No it would not, ARENA pvp is nothing like open world pvp, so it won't do anything to it.

Arenas could be the quick pvp fix you give yourself now and then, stuff that you go do in other games as of now (yes, thats right....ppl play other games for fast pvp). As long as its "full loss" and you are only immune for the duration of the fight, i'm cool with it. There could be other mechanics that prevent you from taking part (criminal flag, ongoing war dec), thats easy to do.

Saying it would ruin the sandbox is ignoring the fact that the sandbox is about building sandcastles. Back in the days it was possible to get small fights, the times are long gone, today you spend more time searching for a battle than doing the battle Rolling Eyes.
For most ppl, thats not satisfying.


B00T INI
Posted - 2011.07.07 11:59:00 - [123]
 

Originally by: Gwenywell Shumuku
No it would not, ARENA pvp is nothing like open world pvp, so it won't do anything to it.

People getting their quick arena pvp fix are people not out there PVPing for real, thus adding to the problem. Eve is not about instant gratification.

Taipion
Caldari
Operations Control
United Pod Service
Posted - 2011.07.10 23:21:00 - [124]
 

Edited by: Taipion on 10/07/2011 23:21:28
Originally by: Lady Spank
Originally by: Taipion
You still dont get the basic idea, instance means, no chance to use scan or whatever, as there is NO interaction between the fight-participants and everyone else.
Having this in a dedicated system, where all the fighters gather, what advantage could you get even if it would be possible?!

Instanced means, no interaction in either direction, so its the same as being docked, just that some of the (up to) 2x10 ships will be lost.


I get it perfectly and there should be no instancing for fights in Eve regardless of where this safe environment occurs. It is absolutely nothing like being docked and as the poster 2 up said it destroys PVP. That you can't understand this shows a lack of understanding of what Eve is all about.

You are entitled to your opinion that it would be good or fun but to say it is harmless is laughable.

Regardless this is something CCP will never implement as thankfully they understand the game better than you do.


As I said, you donīt understand it, and saying it would kill PvP just proves that you donīt even know the difference between EVE and WoW.


Originally by: B00T INI
Originally by: Gwenywell Shumuku
No it would not, ARENA pvp is nothing like open world pvp, so it won't do anything to it.

People getting their quick arena pvp fix are people not out there PVPing for real, thus adding to the problem. Eve is not about instant gratification.


As I posted and explained earlier, there will be no less people in open PvP because of a Arena or Tournament like PvP.

And EVE is about instant gratification, you kill the ship, you loot it.

Olleybear
Minmatar
I R' Carebear
Posted - 2011.07.11 02:37:00 - [125]
 

So far what I am seeing is people opposed to the Arena style of combat based on one thing only. That thing being the fight is instanced or somehow not 'gankable' by outside players.

So lets get rid of the instance. The two players agree to the Arena match, they fight outside station or warp to a safespot in system, duke it out until one person is destroyed or warps out, leaving the winner in their ship.

If the match is scanned out and someone interferes ( neutral remote rep or suicide ganks 1 of the players ) the match is voided as far as rankings go.

This wouldnt break the sandbox because the fight would not be instanced. Would something like that make the people opposed to the idea of an Arena more likely to go for it?

I spent 8 hours on and off last night looking for a fight. I am getting more than a little tired of looking for a fight for hours on end. When I finally found one I suicided my BC. IE, the BC I was fighting had a buddy next door in a BC as well plus a command link to extend the warp disrupt range. I knew this and I went for it anyway for the lolz.

Taipion
Caldari
Operations Control
United Pod Service
Posted - 2011.07.11 21:50:00 - [126]
 

Edited by: Taipion on 11/07/2011 21:51:18
Originally by: Olleybear
So far what I am seeing is people opposed to the Arena style of combat based on one thing only. That thing being the fight is instanced or somehow not 'gankable' by outside players.

So lets get rid of the instance. The two players agree to the Arena match, they fight outside station or warp to a safespot in system, duke it out until one person is destroyed or warps out, leaving the winner in their ship.

If the match is scanned out and someone interferes ( neutral remote rep or suicide ganks 1 of the players ) the match is voided as far as rankings go.

This wouldnt break the sandbox because the fight would not be instanced.


And It would not make a Tournament or Arena Style PvP possible.

Shielding the actual fight from outside interruption is a must for this kind of thing, and it would not brake anything but the believe of those nay sayers.



Originally by: Olleybear
Would something like that make the people opposed to the idea of an Arena more likely to go for it?


No, not even that would do, because people trolling against it in this thread all come from WoW and think that EVE = WoW, and "Arena PvP" would kill "Open PvP".

When I first realized what they were thinking, I lolled really hard, but then again I realized that they really believe it. ugh

B00T INI
Posted - 2011.07.11 21:58:00 - [127]
 

If I say NO NO NO enough times my argument must be rock solid.

Mister Smithington
Posted - 2011.07.11 21:58:00 - [128]
 

Originally by: Olleybear
So far what I am seeing is people opposed to the Arena style of combat based on one thing only. That thing being the fight is instanced or somehow not 'gankable' by outside players.

So lets get rid of the instance. The two players agree to the Arena match, they fight outside station or warp to a safespot in system, duke it out until one person is destroyed or warps out, leaving the winner in their ship.

If the match is scanned out and someone interferes ( neutral remote rep or suicide ganks 1 of the players ) the match is voided as far as rankings go.

This wouldnt break the sandbox because the fight would not be instanced. Would something like that make the people opposed to the idea of an Arena more likely to go for it?

I spent 8 hours on and off last night looking for a fight. I am getting more than a little tired of looking for a fight for hours on end. When I finally found one I suicided my BC. IE, the BC I was fighting had a buddy next door in a BC as well plus a command link to extend the warp disrupt range. I knew this and I went for it anyway for the lolz.

You're just talking about a way to mutually flag two players without can-flipping? They still stay in space, they're still interactable by every one else (whether that be ganking or repping or whatever)?

Yeah I'd be fine with that. Though, you could just can flip. Or fight corp members.

Yakia TovilToba
Halliburton Inc.
Posted - 2011.07.12 01:48:00 - [129]
 

Originally by: B00T INI
If I say NO NO NO enough times my argument must be rock solid.

You don't have anything that comes close to an argument, you just troll this thread with inept drivel. Get out of here.

Taipion
Caldari
Operations Control
United Pod Service
Posted - 2011.07.12 11:45:00 - [130]
 

Ok,

now we got a lot of people who would like to have something like this,

and a lot of people who are either not aware that EVE != WoW, or ar trolls, or both.


But to rule this out, and make it 100% clear, I dare to ask again:

What exactly could go wrong with this kind of PvP?
No "That breaks PvP" answers-snippets please, troll somewhere else, well thought through and explained arguments only!

(And no, the existence of a Tournament/Arena Like PvP would not invalidate or reduce any other kind of PvP, simply because they are way different, as I explained allready in another post in this thread.)

Neqa'el Uphir
Amarr
PORTAL KOMBAT
Posted - 2011.07.12 11:50:00 - [131]
 

CCP should just start looking at Blizzard and doing it their way as it is the right way. Question is not "are arenas a good idea", question is why they are not in the game for like 2-3 years already. Srsly..

Oh wait, too much development time, the whole 10 ppl are making THE ROOM and THE DOOR. Rest are working on World of Dust so no, no arenas.. too much effort and too much fun for players.

Chigger Troutslayer
Internet Spaceship Gamers
RED Citizens
Posted - 2011.07.12 12:23:00 - [132]
 

I think it would be cool to have some sort of duel PVP mechanic, but it wouldn't even need to be that complicated with and "arena" or tournament and such. Simply a way to flag interested parties to each other for a set period of time. Make it similar to the trade window as far as signing up. Make it flexible you want 2 frigs vs 1 cruiser fine. You change ships you lose your flag to the other guy. Just need to deal with nuet RR. I don't think it would be all that hard to code, and with no arena, there are no hiding spots. Would sure beat the steal form a can and hope the other guy doesn't bring half his corp method of 1v1's.

Kunming
Amarr
T.H.U.G L.I.F.E
Xenon-Empire
Posted - 2011.07.12 12:37:00 - [133]
 

Remove local, remove directional scanning even, give directional scanning to dedicated ships.

Why? Simple, there are too much intel tools for no efford, when u jump into a system (non-WH ofc) you know how many enemies are there, with abit of moving around the system you already know their whole fleet composition. There is no "FOG-of-WAR" like in other strategy games its practically like a RTS with open map.

Without ppl knowing the odds beforehand there will be more fights, if there is an option to do so the fighting wont commence until both sides know the odds, if u take that away, or weaken the intel tools ppl will just risk it instead of knowing that the fight is a guaranteed loss. I still do get into fights I know I will lose 100%, all this waiting these days its soo effing boring, i simply wanna see some pretty explosions and enjoy the subtle buzz of adrenaline.

I definetly miss the days when pvp was way cheaper and ppl were not so afraid to lose their stuff.

Jupix
Minmatar
MuroBBS United
Posted - 2011.07.12 12:57:00 - [134]
 

Originally by: Mister Smithington

You're just talking about a way to mutually flag two players without can-flipping? They still stay in space, they're still interactable by every one else (whether that be ganking or repping or whatever)?

Yeah I'd be fine with that. Though, you could just can flip. Or fight corp members.


I just read through all the thread only to find what I was about to post in one of the last messages. Yes, what I want from an "arena"/"consentual PvP"/"tournament" PvP system is precisely that, a way to get other dudes flagged with a simple mouseclick without complicated aggro/war mechanics behind it all. I'm flabbergasted that you guys are talking about instances and complicated tournament mechanics stuff. That stuff's irrelevant and CCP probably won't ever do it. It doesn't even outright address the problem of finding targets cause it sounds like so much effort to set up a fight.

Just give me quick pvp in space with the click of a button.

Suiciding is not it because CONCORD makes me automatically lose and after a couple of fights I'm gimped by secstatus.

Wardecs are not it, because they affect my corpmates and I don't want that.

RvB is not it because that adds spam to my corp history and that's stupid. Also, I hate blobs and RvB has that stigma.

Canflipping is not it because it flags me to his whole corp. Also I hate the effort and uncertainty and the fact it takes forever to set up.

In STO IIRC there is a button labeled "challenge to duel" or something. I want that in eve. Only in STO it's an actual instance and in eve it should be normal space.


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