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Enna Shendara
Posted - 2011.07.04 13:26:00 - [31]
 

My sub is still ticking down. It won't end until march next year. I'm still waiting and seeing. I'll be looking at what CCP do, not what they say.

Malak Alraheem
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.07.04 13:26:00 - [32]
 

I must be in the minority then since I have chosen to wait on resubbing until they fix issues with the game. I am showing Hilmer my actions and I am done giving him my words. CCP, your turn.


Mithrasith
Posted - 2011.07.04 13:29:00 - [33]
 

Originally by: Malak Alraheem
I must be in the minority then since I have chosen to wait on resubbing until they fix issues with the game. I am showing Hilmer my actions and I am done giving him my words. CCP, your turn.




Personally Im not waiting, Im done with CCP. The only thing that would give me pause is if Hilmar stepped down or was fired.

IMO - this is the primary cause of the issues in CCP. His poor attitude towards his customer base will continue to negatively influence other CCP employees and continue the downward spiral of EVE and CCP.

Amber Villaneous
Posted - 2011.07.04 13:41:00 - [34]
 

I am unsubbed and WILL NOT be renewing when my accts expire.

So, OP is a tard, that is all.

Holy One
SniggWaffe
Posted - 2011.07.04 14:14:00 - [35]
 

Originally by: Mr R4nd0m
Edited by: Mr R4nd0m on 04/07/2011 08:51:34


Seriously, you all stand together and actually do something, then all it took was a statement that was what a few lines long, didnt address really anything and there was loads of stuff outside this MT issue that needed sorting, and the people who are still standing up about this, you have turned against and slate on the forums and become CCP lapdogs again..

Pretty shameful tbh..


Democracy init. Rage followed by empty promises and cardboard messiahs followed by rage. American majority makes it worse. American majority of teenagers worse still.

I enjoyed it immensely anyway.Very Happy

Just Another Toon
Posted - 2011.07.04 14:30:00 - [36]
 

Originally by: Amber Villaneous
I am unsubbed and WILL NOT be renewing when my accts expire.

So, OP is a tard, that is all.


i love these trolls. I think the issue is and I tend to agree with the op.. Is that you all stood by each other chanting we want this and that, then ccp and csm release what i think also was a pretty poor response and now you seem to turn on the people you stood with who are still wanting answers...Crying or Very sad

Elienore
Posted - 2011.07.04 14:37:00 - [37]
 

Originally by: Just Another Toon

i love these trolls. I think the issue is and I tend to agree with the op.. Is that you all stood by each other chanting we want this and that, then ccp and csm release what i think also was a pretty poor response and now you seem to turn on the people you stood with who are still wanting answers...Crying or Very sad


On the other hand, threads like this lets me think "HA! Told you so", so yeah.

Cipher Jones
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.07.04 14:53:00 - [38]
 

Originally by: Mr R4nd0m
Edited by: Mr R4nd0m on 04/07/2011 08:51:34


Seriously, you all stand together and actually do something, then all it took was a statement that was what a few lines long, didnt address really anything and there was loads of stuff outside this MT issue that needed sorting, and the people who are still standing up about this, you have turned against and slate on the forums and become CCP lapdogs again..

Pretty shameful tbh..


Your are entitled to your opinion, but IMHO you sound asshurt that you didn't get what *you* want.


Ghoest
Posted - 2011.07.04 14:55:00 - [39]
 

Edited by: Ghoest on 04/07/2011 14:56:51

I suspect at least some other players see it as I do.

We were very unhappy, now were suspicious instead.
Its kind of a mess and its hard to figure out who won or lost (probably both sides lost.)

But mostly were just weary and not very excited about playing for the time being.
Ill probably form more of an opinion in a month.

Arnaud Lefevre
Posted - 2011.07.04 15:06:00 - [40]
 

Edited by: Arnaud Lefevre on 04/07/2011 15:38:19
Originally by: Mithrasith

Let me correct you. The protest for me, and many of the other vets is not necessarily against MT. Yes P2W is slightly concerning, and I dont put it past CCP to include it later in the game, and deny it for the moment, but that also isnt the issue.

The heart of the issue is the lack of respect that CCP has for its player base. It's being called a Golden Goose for them to milk. It has to do with them taking the majority of the cash they make from our subs to develop other games and/or add new shiney content to EVE to attract more subs rather than fix existing bugs, issues, balance problems and missing content that has been promised time and time and time again.

Its about being treated like sh*t, and then Hilmar laughing at the player base after he takes a hot steaming dump on your chest and says "let me see what you're going to do, not what you say".

Its an attitude issue, an attitude that is going to get worse. Ive watched it get worse over the last 2-3 years (Ive been playing since 2005), and this incident tells me its only going to get worse, and worse and worse.


I have some sympathy for your position, even if it's not my own; but if you've had a fatal failure of trust then you must leave what else can you do? - however, if not then organize around your minority interest, be a vocal group. You contribute a great deal to this game so win over others, as I said I've some sympathy for your position.

I, however, don't think that CCP really wanted this, play to win thing, and we have put a strong case for unpleasant consequences, for them or those that may want them to adopt it - shareholders, backers perhaps consultants etc. However, that's my delusion and I'll take responsibility it, if you take responsibility for your delusion.

I trust CCP to do what they need to to keep their commitments, but I believe the long term effect of our protest will mean a more conciliatory and responsive CCP, but we/I may be wrong. If you're not enjoying the game you really should leave but don't fool yourself that leaving will help the game, it won't.

Fredfredbug4
Posted - 2011.07.04 15:57:00 - [41]
 

Like with the hippy movement in the 60s, people here just wanted to feel like they were a part of something, that there were other people who thought that they were.

And so, as silly anti-conformist do, they conformed to the unpopular opinion.

What did they accomplish?

They lagged the servers
They whined in the forums
They pretended to unsub
They made threats towards CCP
They made fun of CCP workers just trying to do their job.


If anything they just made people hate them more.

Tanya Fox
Posted - 2011.07.04 16:04:00 - [42]
 

Originally by: Fredfredbug4
Like with the hippy movement in the 60s, people here just wanted to feel like they were a part of something, that there were other people who thought that they were.

And so, as silly anti-conformist do, they conformed to the unpopular opinion.

What did they accomplish?

They lagged the servers
They whined in the forums
They pretended to unsub
They made threats towards CCP
They made fun of CCP workers just trying to do their job.


If anything they just made people hate them more.




They did achieve part of what they set out to do, that was to get CCPs attention.

As for the main objective that still remains to be seen if that was successful.

Arnaud Lefevre
Posted - 2011.07.04 17:45:00 - [43]
 

Edited by: Arnaud Lefevre on 04/07/2011 17:47:03
Originally by: Fredfredbug4
Like with the hippy movement in the 60s, people here just wanted to feel like they were a part of something, that there were other people who thought that they were.

And so, as silly anti-conformist do, they conformed to the unpopular opinion.

What did they accomplish?

They lagged the servers
They whined in the forums
They pretended to unsub
They made threats towards CCP
They made fun of CCP workers just trying to do their job.


If anything they just made people hate them more.


Fredfredbug4: But apart from votes for women, Indian independence; Civil rights, the Protestant movement, the End of chattel slavery what have the protestors ever done for us?

Arnaud: Stopped pay to win?

Duvida
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2011.07.04 18:35:00 - [44]
 

Originally by: Arnaud Lefevre
Edited by: Arnaud Lefevre on 04/07/2011 17:47:03
Originally by: Fredfredbug4
Like with the hippy movement in the 60s, people here just wanted to feel like they were a part of something, that there were other people who thought that they were.

And so, as silly anti-conformist do, they conformed to the unpopular opinion.

What did they accomplish?

They lagged the servers
They whined in the forums
They pretended to unsub
They made threats towards CCP
They made fun of CCP workers just trying to do their job.


If anything they just made people hate them more.


Fredfredbug4: But apart from votes for women, Indian independence; Civil rights, the Protestant movement, the End of chattel slavery what have the protestors ever done for us?

Arnaud: Stopped pay to win?


The protests had their purpose, and for the parts that got out of hand those people knew what they were doing and should be followed up with, even banned. Example: If I'm angry with a gov't or business policy, beating up my neighbor's kids is not the action to take and my neighbor and his kids deserve justice done to me for that.

But protesting bad treatment from CCP to us, the only reason they remain in business, is legitimate. For the vision of something like EVE to be made grand, our participation is needed. We pay our subscription, try to enjoy our time within EVE, and do our part to make EVE's vision come to life. For that vision to be trashed, for our investment to be flushed without any consultation or consideration, this will not stand unchallenged. We'd been solicted for our investment, we gave our investment with the understanding that this would be ongoing.

Nick Bete
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2011.07.04 18:46:00 - [45]
 

Originally by: Jennifer Starling

Fortunately the forum vets aren't representative for the average gamer you meet in-game.


Thank God.

I also hope that CCP realizes that the small percentage who cried loudest and who are apparently well represented on the bitter-vet dominated CSM don't reflect what the majority of the players think.

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2011.07.04 18:49:00 - [46]
 

It's important to be angry when CCP do terrible things, but it's not more important to be angry than to get stuff done.

CCP got the message: we wont stand for power MT. They saw their subscription rates falling off a cliff and backed off whatever plans they had. At worst, it'll be a while before they try it again, and they've changed their "CSM are not involved in billing" policy to exclude MTs, so that's a definite gain. Great, mission accomplished, in that we accomplished all we could reasonably hope to accomplish.

While it's very important to show CCP that we'll get angry if they do stuff we don't like, it's also pretty important to show them that there's something to be gained be not doing stuff we don't like.

If that means letting them save a little face to repair the damage done from all the horrible publicity, then we should let them. We don't gain anything from stopping new people joining at this point. The more subs CCP get from now on, the better it is for us because (1) It will show them that people will sub up to a game with no power MT and (2) it will decrease their financial need to introduce power MT.

Now we should focus our energy on the constructive goal of getting them to address the many areas of spaceships EVE that need some love; 0.0 sov, Faction Warfare, Gallante/Hybrids, the rest of the list we all know all too well etc., etc.

Are we going to spend all our time refighting a battle we just won, or are we going to fight new ones?

Hustler Funk
Posted - 2011.07.04 18:51:00 - [47]
 

Look at what they say,

AND

Look at what they do.

MaiLina KaTar
Posted - 2011.07.04 19:00:00 - [48]
 

Edited by: MaiLina KaTar on 04/07/2011 19:04:51
Originally by: Duvida
But protesting bad treatment from CCP to us, the only reason they remain in business, is legitimate.

Yeah but like I said when this fiasko started... all this protesting bull**** isn't worth a damn if you're not letting the hammer fly.

It turned out exactly the way I said it would. A lot of blabber, no substantial results. And CCP are going to carry on exactly the way they did before. And why wouldn't they? There's no consequence. People keep paying. Yeah they might spam but what do they actually do? Nothing. This whole charade was merely another repetition of what happened on pretty much every previous expansion, except that it was a bit louder this time due to the whole MT thing.

As long as you guys keep tolerating and believing in **** like the hollow, useless PR tool that is the CSM, nothing is gonna change. As long as you keep getting sidetracked and distracted from the real problems that easily, you're going to be served just the same kind of semi-finished fluff-puff content as per usual.

Just sayin'.

Ana Vyr
Caldari
Posted - 2011.07.04 19:04:00 - [49]
 

Edited by: Ana Vyr on 04/07/2011 19:07:44
Originally by: Merkur Avar

Standing against capitalism? Are you joking? Capitalism is exactly why you can sit on your lazy bum at the moment to play EVE Online. Sure, it is far from perfect, but let me just remind you that CCP at no point had any concrete plans about implementing game-breaking MTs. That is exactly what made these protests ridiculous.

I also predicted that 90% of cancellers would return within two weeks. Seems I am very right about that also. Though I remain glad this whole unnecessary ****storm is over with.


Don't fool yourself on this. If CCP had no plans to implement game breaking MT's, they would have said so up front and clearly.

MaiLina KaTar
Posted - 2011.07.04 19:10:00 - [50]
 

Edited by: MaiLina KaTar on 04/07/2011 19:10:56
Originally by: Ana Vyr
Don't fool yourself on this. If CCP had no plans to implement game breaking MT's, they would have said so up front and clearly. You've got no history with CCP yet.

I do, though. And I'm telling you they never had such plans. They're not stupid. Sloppy? Hell yeah, but not stupid.

The uproar about MT was very convenient for them. That's why they didn't clear up the fog right away. This way they didn't have to look for ways to divert attention from the fact that the amount of content delivered didn't match an ounce with what was announced, yet again. They played it out brilliantly.

Pesky LaRue
Brotherhood Of Fallen Angels
Etherium Cartel
Posted - 2011.07.04 19:10:00 - [51]
 

Originally by: Mr R4nd0m
Edited by: Mr R4nd0m on 04/07/2011 08:51:34


Seriously, you all stand together and actually do something, then all it took was a statement that was what a few lines long, didnt address really anything and there was loads of stuff outside this MT issue that needed sorting, and the people who are still standing up about this, you have turned against and slate on the forums and become CCP lapdogs again..

Pretty shameful tbh..
you are pretty much, flat-out retarded. This is a video-game, not a civil rights movement. anyone - like you - who got so bent out of shape REALLY ought to re-evaluate their own lives that this got you SO worked up.

it's a video game.

a video game.

say it with me, it's a video game, not a civil-rights movement.

Ana Vyr
Caldari
Posted - 2011.07.04 19:19:00 - [52]
 

Originally by: MaiLina KaTar
Edited by: MaiLina KaTar on 04/07/2011 19:10:56
Originally by: Ana Vyr
Don't fool yourself on this. If CCP had no plans to implement game breaking MT's, they would have said so up front and clearly. You've got no history with CCP yet.

I do, though. And I'm telling you they never had such plans. They're not stupid. Sloppy? Hell yeah, but not stupid.

The uproar about MT was very convenient for them. That's why they didn't clear up the fog right away. This way they didn't have to look for ways to divert attention from the fact that the amount of content delivered didn't match an ounce with what was announced, yet again. They played it out brilliantly.


Yeah I wondered the same thing, and I'll admit you could be right on that, but I just caught a whiff of : "holy crap we messed up bigtime on this" confusion coming from CCP. Then again they could be as manipulative as you are saying too.

Serious Spaceship Girl
Posted - 2011.07.04 20:09:00 - [53]
 

Edited by: Serious Spaceship Girl on 04/07/2011 20:09:13
How many of you, that are still angry, were angry before this?

My only problem was pay2win. They, being a corporation, have stated it as strongly as they could, and still be able tom react if they need to.

I have an HP Pavilion and a 5770 video card. 64 bit win 7. I can run two clients at max settings with no heat issues, and only slight lower fps from pre incarna. Plus...I eagerly await the promised sci-fi universe.

So, call names all you like, but I feel as though I was listened to. Go try this is any other game, and then come tell everyone how long your ban is.

Arnaud Lefevre
Posted - 2011.07.04 20:11:00 - [54]
 

Edited by: Arnaud Lefevre on 04/07/2011 20:12:47
Originally by: Malcanis
It's important to be angry when CCP do terrible things, but it's not more important to be angry than to get stuff done.

CCP got the message: we wont stand for power MT. They saw their subscription rates falling off a cliff and backed off whatever plans they had. At worst, it'll be a while before they try it again, and they've changed their "CSM are not involved in billing" policy to exclude MTs, so that's a definite gain. Great, mission accomplished, in that we accomplished all we could reasonably hope to accomplish.

While it's very important to show CCP that we'll get angry if they do stuff we don't like, it's also pretty important to show them that there's something to be gained be not doing stuff we don't like.

If that means letting them save a little face to repair the damage done from all the horrible publicity, then we should let them. We don't gain anything from stopping new people joining at this point. The more subs CCP get from now on, the better it is for us because (1) It will show them that people will sub up to a game with no power MT and (2) it will decrease their financial need to introduce power MT.

Now we should focus our energy on the constructive goal of getting them to address the many areas of spaceships EVE that need some love; 0.0 sov, Faction Warfare, Gallante/Hybrids, the rest of the list we all know all too well etc., etc.

Are we going to spend all our time refighting a battle we just won, or are we going to fight new ones?


Malcanis nicely put, yours is not an apathetic position: trust in CCP, or they can do what they like with their game, but neither is it this phlegmatic position which seems to be: my first protest will be my last, which really is pathetic. Cheers

Tvastar
Posted - 2011.07.04 20:22:00 - [55]
 

Edited by: Tvastar on 04/07/2011 20:31:58
Originally by: Pesky LaRue
Originally by: Mr R4nd0m
Edited by: Mr R4nd0m on 04/07/2011 08:51:34


Seriously, you all stand together and actually do something, then all it took was a statement that was what a few lines long, didnt address really anything and there was loads of stuff outside this MT issue that needed sorting, and the people who are still standing up about this, you have turned against and slate on the forums and become CCP lapdogs again..

Pretty shameful tbh..
you are pretty much, flat-out retarded. This is a video-game, not a civil rights movement. anyone - like you - who got so bent out of shape REALLY ought to re-evaluate their own lives that this got you SO worked up.

it's a video game.

a video game.

say it with me, it's a video game, not a civil-rights movement.


This post is fail, and simply a rationalization of lazy defeatist drivel. You might as well say "I don't care enough about this to do anything about it", well fine suit yourself but other people might - in fact some of us care enough that they've ended up working for CCP, go figure. I would remind you, who love this 'war' game, that all confrontation is in the end about power, in that respect this confrontation was no different from any other.

Brujo Loco
Amarr
Brujeria Teologica
Posted - 2011.07.04 21:10:00 - [56]
 

Originally by: Pesky LaRue
Originally by: Mr R4nd0m
Edited by: Mr R4nd0m on 04/07/2011 08:51:34


Seriously, you all stand together and actually do something, then all it took was a statement that was what a few lines long, didnt address really anything and there was loads of stuff outside this MT issue that needed sorting, and the people who are still standing up about this, you have turned against and slate on the forums and become CCP lapdogs again..

Pretty shameful tbh..
you are pretty much, flat-out retarded. This is a video-game, not a civil rights movement. anyone - like you - who got so bent out of shape REALLY ought to re-evaluate their own lives that this got you SO worked up.

it's a video game.

a video game.

say it with me, it's a video game, not a civil-rights movement.


People get harassed/killed daily for Boots, watches, cars, books, sexual orientation, skin color etc. A GAME is no more or less "real" than the aforementioned issues, implying a game is something to not get worked upon means that people should not or don't get worked upon things as furs, veggies, left wing, right wing, Han shooting greedo, an egg cut sideways or central wise, bearded men in the sky, zombie messiahs, words on books, twilight vampires, harry potter, Ipads or for that matter EVE ONLINE.

A game is not sacrosanct, it's played by people, thus people will make it something else than YOUR perception of what a "game" is and imbue whatever they feel it's necessary to imbue them with, it's how games make money.

If reason was king in the world we all would be dead by now, I present to you THE SUNK COST FALLACY, hate me now, thank me later, or just hate me or refute me, the truth is out there, and all your " Why I can't get this, why people bolt over the sandwich? Why they screaming and pulling their hair at the Bitten Hamburger?" questions will never be satisfied. You dealing with people, people are like that, and believe it or not, you are not alone in the world, there's 6 billion more people out there from diff countries and background than yours that are greater than your limited 10 to 100 tops people you will meet and have actual long lasting relationships of any kind. the other 16k are just passing , facebook friends dont count either. So no my friend, there are not 6 degrees of separation between you and me or someone living in the other side of the world, so no matter how much you think or perceive yourself as a man of the world with worldy ideas you are a tiny tiny island.

No matter what you do your circle of friend and relatives will ALWAYS be small and we all live isolated lives , so if you understood this you could never EVER dare to say this nonsense ever again because you have no real sense of how broad and big the world is and how people behave.

Please for the sake of the children, dont spread this kind of false statements. It's counterproductive to the human race as a whole.

It would be more credible if you just said " LAME WHINERS, CQ IS RIGHT" than saying the old cliche of "OMG it's a GAME". See GAMES are SERIOUS BUSINESS as discovered by Piaget, and guess what, GAMES remain serious business to some all their lives.

Please, no , STOP.

Thank you

Much <3 to you and your house.

Cipher Jones
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.07.04 21:14:00 - [57]
 

Originally by: Nick Bete
Originally by: Jennifer Starling

Fortunately the forum vets aren't representative for the average gamer you meet in-game.


Thank God.

I also hope that CCP realizes that the small percentage who cried loudest and who are apparently well represented on the bitter-vet dominated CSM don't reflect what the majority of the players think.


I also think its ironic that during this time there was a thread about the slide presentation from EA about who spends the most money.

Riddick Liddell
Posted - 2011.07.04 21:20:00 - [58]
 

The fact that people took the time to kick and scream says EVE is not dead but alive and well.

I quit LoTRO, I quit DAoC, I quit AoC, I quit around 15 MMOs over the years. I never once went to the forums and raged about it or attempted to orchestrate a mass rebellion. I just left. Kinda like I'm doing here, again. I dunno, see you in 6 months?

Dragon Anshar
Posted - 2011.07.04 21:24:00 - [59]
 

Originally by: Mr R4nd0m
Edited by: Mr R4nd0m on 04/07/2011 08:51:34


Seriously, you all stand together and actually do something, then all it took was a statement that was what a few lines long, didnt address really anything and there was loads of stuff outside this MT issue that needed sorting, and the people who are still standing up about this, you have turned against and slate on the forums and become CCP lapdogs again..

Pretty shameful tbh..


The reason we where satified was this paragraph

It is CCP‘s plan that the Noble Exchange (NeX store) will be used for the sale of vanity items only. There are no plans, and have been no plans, as per previous communication and CSM meetings, to introduce the sale of game breaking items or enhancements in the NeX store.

While some ******s took it out of context by simply taking the second half of it to debate the entiretly clearly states what most of us already read before in previous blogs (ie vanity only).

While we arent happy wiht the captains quarters it added a lot of back end programming nessesary to fix things like the UI or add in game games of meet with dust mercs. If you jsut look at it like they jsut added a room then yes your experience is terribad but if you look at all the other stuff they added in to enhance eve later youll find this wasnt a complete loss of an expansion.

Nika Dekaia
Posted - 2011.07.04 21:44:00 - [60]
 

Edited by: Nika Dekaia on 04/07/2011 21:48:25
There was a consent that there would only be vanity items for MT. Still, CCP discussed pay to win internally - which should have been a no-go. Huge community outcry, some people cancel accounts to show they mean it. CCP and CSM assure that only vanity items will be in NEx. People resub.

So yeah, as Hilmar put it: I will look at what CCP does and less of what they say. As soon as something shows up in NEx I personally can not accept in Eve, I will cancel my accounts. I don't play (or even post on the forums) much any more, but I always thought that the Vision CCP had (sandbox sci-fi simulator) was well worth skilling my char and giving money to CCP. Although I will most likely never buy a PS3/4 or Dust, I really think it has potential and will be a great addition to the Eve Universe (as is Incarna - even if it is just a WoD beta testing), I can accept to be funding Dust with my subs. WoD not that much, and if CCP actually has a money flow problem: ****ing put that Vampire stuff on hold and fix your moneymaker game.

Any pay to win win is pretty much against what this sandbox is about. Hope CCP finally realised that. It seems they always start an (rather obvious) community rage just to appologize and start another one later. The outcome of their actions an lack of communication is so blatant that they might actually be trolling their player base just for fun.


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