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Anshio Tamark
Posted - 2011.07.03 18:01:00 - [1]
 

Hey all.

Me and my corpmates (mostly miners and industrialists, the rest are mission-runners) have been wanting to try a low-sec mining operation, for a while now, but neither of us have any actual experience in Low-sec. I am the only member of our corp who has actually been to low-sec and both times, it resulted in me losing a ship (First time was in a Burst on my primary account while I was still a newbie and didn't know what low-sec was, second time was in an Osprey on this account). Due to the fact that I am the only one who has been there, have been appointed the leader of the mining operation.

Now, I know the basic rules of EVE (such as "Don't fly what you can't replace") and as such, we have taken the precautions we can come up with. We've found a semi-secure low-sec system (same as where I lost my Osprey), we have made sure to keep our clones up-to-date (at least one grade higher than necessary), and we've made a basic strategy for how things will be done.

I do not want to give too much information that could potentially compromise our security (Such as System-name), but I will give enough vague info, so you can give me any suggestions you may have:

Our plan is basically to have a Cov-Ops frigate jump in, warp cloaked to a random area, try to find a Gravimetric Site, and then warp our fleet of cheap-ass Mass-Produced Bursts with Miner I's in to mine it, and have the ore being hauled back to station (there are none where we'll be operating, so "back to station" means the station in the neighboring High-sec system) in a cloaked Transport Ship. While the Miners are mining, the Cov-Ops will be orbiting the one of the gates at more than 150km while still cloaked, so he can see any potential threats and warn everyone else ahead of time.

Another plan we consider executing would be to have every Burst replaced with a Covetor with 2 Strip Miner I's and one cheap Cloaking Device and as many Expanded Cargohold II's as physically possible. This plan, however, will not be executed until we are more experienced with our kind of Low-sec mining.

I sincerely hope that somebody out there will be helpful enough to give me an honest answer, and even better would be, if you could please give us some constructive feedback. As mentioned in the beginning, we are a bunch of Industrialists and Miners, who'd like to try mining in low-sec, but we are not willing to go into null-sec or Wormholes yet.

Please reply with any suggestions or tips you may have, because we want to be as prepared as we can be.

OllieNorth
Gallente
R-K Industries
Posted - 2011.07.03 19:23:00 - [2]
 

You'd probably be better served to have players in Bursts on each gate as scouts, have a Safe Spot to warp to, and use covetors. Also, scout the system for a while, get a feel for activity. You are usually safer farther into lowsec than in a system directly adjacent to high sec, that's where the pirates generally hang out.

Nak hak
Posted - 2011.07.03 23:15:00 - [3]
 

If you have to mine in low-sec, then think about Ninja Mining(You seem to know about it.). Your ships many vary.

Ship for Ninja mining?

Your idea to find Gravimetric site is a good option. Remember, combat probes mean you are being hunted.

Taking a risk is fun. Very Happy


Bormegil
Posted - 2011.07.04 00:25:00 - [4]
 

Sounds like an awfully lot of trouble for some slightly better ores. Now, I could be entirely wrong, and maybe you've run all the numbers on it (or maybe you're just looking for an exciting time, which is something else altogether), but I simply can't see how abandoning Orca support, downgrading from Hulks, sending your ore an entire system away and taking pilots that could be used to mine and instead placing them as scouts/sentries will do anything but kill your profit. Not to mention that losing an operation to a few pirates is going to put you even further into the hole.

As for covetors with cloaking devices? Honestly, what's the point? The things are piggishly slow as it is, and I'm not entirely sure when you'd conceivably be able to make use of the cloak. If you get jumped in the belt you'll probably be too close to either other miners, drones or asteroids to simply cloak, not to mention chances are good you'll get targeted before having a chance to turn the thing on, and if you do cloak you're not really going to be getting anywhere considering the speed issues -- the pirates will either uncloak you all before you escape, or just wait for you to uncloak and try warping off. 10 m/s isn't much of a getaway.

Think about it, even if you could conceive of an airtight plan for escape should the worst happen, you're still going to be wasting precious time warping off to a safe zone every time a hostile begins poking through the area. You might be making two or three times the income per rock mined, but are you still mining fast enough and regularly enough for that to make a difference?

You honestly might be better off making arrangements with some other corps/alliance or moving your operation into some of the "safer" neutral-friendly nullsec systems. Or, if it's just for the excitement factor, then have at it! I do the same sorts of dumb things all the time... just don't expect to be making more profit than you would by simply stripping veldspar rocks in highsec.

Omara Otawan
Posted - 2011.07.04 00:40:00 - [5]
 

Edited by: Omara Otawan on 04/07/2011 00:45:26
Originally by: Anshio Tamark

Me and my corpmates (mostly miners and industrialists, the rest are mission-runners) have been wanting to try a low-sec mining operation, for a while now, but neither of us have any actual experience in Low-sec.


In case you have the whole industry chain in your corp, maybe try to make contact with the locals and try to make some kind of deal.

While pay-for-blue usually wont be worth it for small-scale operations, selling your products at a bargain in exchange for good standings and shared intel might work out for both sides.

Being able to buy ships in your lowsec home at Jita price can be a very convincing reason to not shoot certain people, and shared intel can make your operations a lot easier.

Edit: Not hating on the idea of just doing ninja mining ops in lowsec, but having some kind of long-term plan will definitely make the whole thing a lot more worthwhile. It isnt the easiest thing to get a foothold in lowsec as industrialists, but it can be very profitable compared to your typical small-scale hisec operation if done right.

Annabell Ood
Posted - 2011.07.04 01:43:00 - [6]
 

Edited by: Annabell Ood on 04/07/2011 14:12:47
a few suggestions that might be helpfull

1) know where you are going.

have a mission runner or 2 spend some time ratting in lowsec. Let them find some nice "safe" place at least 2 jumps or more from highsec that meet your Ops needs.
They can also get used to seeing some of the names in local that won't "seem" to want to hunt you.

2) Bookmarks Bookmarks Bookmarks

After you find a nice place, send in your crew in frigs or shuttles to create a metric ton of safe places. Be sure to have everyone set a bookmark straight out of the station that you will be useing to undock; atleast 151k ( I would recommend the bookmark to be set around 300 to 400k )

3) Stay aligned and keep your eyes on local

Local is one of the BEST tools for lowsec


The ninja mining posted above can help you with fittings and more tips. The one thing to remember is.

4) Its harder getting out then it is getting in.

Once you have your goods be sure to have a good extraction plan.




I mission run, rat, and even mine in low sec because I find it alot more fun. I think the ISK is better ( easier ) in highsec but I find the thrill to be in lowsec.

send me an evemail and I will suggest some possible lowsec places that might meet your needs and be somewhat safe.

King Rothgar
Autocannons Anonymous
Posted - 2011.07.04 03:03:00 - [7]
 

Just go try the burst method. If you get blown up it costs what? 5 minutes of mining veld in high sec with a covetor? Just give it a go. In fact that's probably the best way to get your feet wet with it. You don't have to mine much to turn a profit. Use that method to figure things out, then move up to proper mining ships for the real mining once you're ready. In any case, cloaks on the miners shouldn't be necessary. In fact I don't see how they could possibly do you any good if you've got somewhere to hide (ie a station/POS) or can simply warp off to a high sec gate.

Taurean Eltanin
The Tuskers
Posted - 2011.07.04 08:50:00 - [8]
 

Edited by: Taurean Eltanin on 04/07/2011 08:53:19
I'm not a miner, but I do hunt miners (among other things), so I'll give you some tips.

First, life becomes much easier for miners if they have a POS in the system which they are mining in. That means that ships can be fit for travel (warp stabs, alignment mods, etc), and then refit for work without worrying about being camped at a station.

The other advantage is that you become much more difficult to hunt.

Pirates know their hunting grounds very well. That means that I remember the ships that are parked in a POS and generally don't waste my time trying to track them down. So if you park your Covetor in your POS at the same cluster as the belts you mine in, then there is no quick way for me to tell whether or not you are safe in the POS or mining in the belt; I have to jump to the cluster to find out.

This works even better if you all get into the habit of leaving your characters online and in the POS even when you are not playing. You've gone from being prey to just part of the environment. While I'll still gank you if I get the chance, I'm far less likely to even bother trying.

Finally, the POS gives you an alignment warp-out that I can't follow you to or camp you at. Warp to celestial, and I'll land there before you. Warp to a station and I can camp you there, or try and bump you out of the docking ring. I can't argue with the station guns on your POS, though.

Hope that gives you some food for thought. Fly safe, and welcome to low sec.

Edit: I've also seen miners use their POS as a base for cyno beacons. By using jump capable ships to move goods in and out of low sec the miners can avoid the heavily camped regions that surround high sec.

Mahkal
Caldari
Posted - 2011.07.04 14:34:00 - [9]
 

Why not just make the jump to wormholes?

Wormhole Space is Lowsec 2.0

All the benefits of lowsec (and more) and without a many of the drawbacks.

Better minerals
Better PI
Better ratting
The fit you need for sleepers leaves you much less helpless against players than mission fits
No local to watch (or to give you away)

Kiran
Minmatar
Knights of Azrael
Anti-Social Outcast
Posted - 2011.07.04 17:11:00 - [10]
 

Mine in low sec? Your joking right?

No one mines in low sec that I have seen, I have mined in 0.0 but that was a long while back in a grav site. To mine belts is suicide unless you can control the system via warp disruption bubbles (cant use bubble in low sec) or numbers in system to hit anyone not blue hard.

Find a sov holding alliance or rent a system and go to null sec and build up your industry for the system. Easier to control them with bubbles and better ore. You also have a decent intel network and back up.


King Rothgar
Autocannons Anonymous
Posted - 2011.07.06 00:44:00 - [11]
 

Well he is talking about grav sites in low sec, not the regular belts. I agree mining the normal belts is outright dumb since they aren't any better than the ones in high sec. But the grav sites often have ores normally restricted to null sec. As long as the system is relatively calm and you're paying attention, mining a grav site for high end ores in low sec is a fairly reasonable thing to do.

As for using a POS, yes, that does increase safety some. The trouble of course is that POS's burn fuel and that can get expensive fast. Even a small burns 150M isk a month last time I checked, it would be more cost effective to just accept the loss of a few covetors a month instead. And you shouldn't be losing them anyways if you have a station/high sec gate to warp to. The only thing the POS does is make you scenery if you stay logged in 23/7. I don't view it as a good investment even at a corp level unless you're in a system with no station and no high sec gates.

Von Kroll
Caldari
Kroll's Legion
Posted - 2011.07.06 02:28:00 - [12]
 

Pick either a system (preferably dead-end) with a station, or plan on putting a POS up. And you'll need at least a medium tower if you plan on leaving it in place. If its a persistent POS, and its a small tower, some griefer will come blow it up just because he can.

Second, look for systems where there is a great deal of distance between the belts and the gates. I know of a system, for example, where the belts are all over 40 AU from the gates. That means if someone comes into system, you have a decent amount of time with which to warp off. Also, as someone else said, gravimetric sites offer some added protection--just be on the lookout for either combat or scan probes, since if they find the signature, its as good as scanning your ship down. Make sure you use combat drones on your mining ships. One of my corp members got jumped by a Rifter while in his Hulk, and he wound up pwning the Rifter so fast, it didn't matter that he didn't have a point. Do not, under any circumstances, go afk unless you're in a safe spot, POS, etc.

Last, remember that you'll need the ability to transport the stuff you mine out. So, a Jump Freighter should be considered practically a requirement to do this on any sort of scale.

gonesideways
Posted - 2011.07.06 03:17:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Anshio Tamark
Hey all.

Me and my corpmates (mostly miners and industrialists, the rest are mission-runners) have been wanting to try a low-sec mining operation, for a while now, but neither of us have any actual experience in Low-sec. I am the only member of our corp who has actually been to low-sec and both times, it resulted in me losing a ship (First time was in a Burst on my primary account while I was still a newbie and didn't know what low-sec was, second time was in an Osprey on this account). Due to the fact that I am the only one who has been there, have been appointed the leader of the mining operation.


0/10

all else... you haz been trolled

sYnc Vir
Caldari
Wolfsbrigade
Posted - 2011.07.06 07:02:00 - [14]
 

Edited by: sYnc Vir on 06/07/2011 07:06:26
While thinking about moving your ops out of High Sec for more income sounds great on paper. Mining in low sec falls far below a reasonable risk to reward line to make it completely redundent. I've spent pretty much most of my Eve life in lowsec with High sec mining alts. I've looked into low sec mining before, even Null sec and for a small group of people it simply just isn't worth while. Factor in the sheer cost of moving your products, setting up pos's to build cause you're unlikely to have station building. Not to mention, it would take mere days for some local to find out theirs a mining corp around, and you'd one day get black ops dropped and killed.

Lowsec mining just isn't worth the time, effort or the increased rate in which your hulks blow up. If you're after extra isk income, then your only real option is joining a Worm Hole group. Worm holes are basically they only truly great place to mine, but come with their very own issuse. The main one being getting your damn ore out. An already set up corp would be your best better because of this factor, having more than likely put into place their transport links.

Null sec I guess could work, but it would mean finding someone with sov in a system that has a refining station. Close to a building station, and not so far away they can protect you from those small scale roaming groups. Entry Level Null systems I've been too seem to only have the same ores as High Sec, so for Truly great profits you're going too want a system thats below -0.5. Then again, Team BFF have already said they are going to change Null Sec to make building, mining and the like easier in Null. So maybe wait until the winter patch and see just what that brings. If theres a really improvement in Null for mining and so one, then becoming a pet to someones on the grounds that you sell your ships at JITA PRICES, wouldn't be the worse thing in the world. Even your mission runners would like being pets. Null is very carebear friendly. The easy in which you find sites in null is shocking. Though it does help a fella get his sec status back real fast.

If Null or Worm Holes aren't for you, then stay in High Sec. Low sec simply just isn't even close to being worth the risk. Unless ccp wanna give the Hulk 300 more PG, 2 more mids and Three more low slots? I somehow doubt that.

Karash Amerius
Sutoka
Posted - 2011.07.06 18:23:00 - [15]
 

Listen, don't really listen to other people tell you how to play your game. Its all for fun, and adding some danger to your night is fun.

Borun Tal
Minmatar
Space Pods Inc
Posted - 2011.07.06 19:57:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: gonesideways
Originally by: Anshio Tamark
Hey all.

Me and my corpmates (mostly miners and industrialists, the rest are mission-runners) have been wanting to try a low-sec mining operation, for a while now, but neither of us have any actual experience in Low-sec. I am the only member of our corp who has actually been to low-sec and both times, it resulted in me losing a ship (First time was in a Burst on my primary account while I was still a newbie and didn't know what low-sec was, second time was in an Osprey on this account). Due to the fact that I am the only one who has been there, have been appointed the leader of the mining operation.


0/10

all else... you haz been trolled


Nothing wrong with asking for tips and techniques for mining low, given that the elitist "you don't mine in low" is the typical answer.

Kel'Taran
Posted - 2011.07.07 21:05:00 - [17]
 

As some have said try to avoid mining in lo sec systems which connect directly to hi sec as they are usually havens for folks looking to get easy kills. Systems like Decon, Sharuveil, etc are going to be crawling with folks looking to kill. You want to go to deeper quieter lo sec.

N88 TOE
Posted - 2011.07.09 20:06:00 - [18]
 

bookmark a site and dont delete it when it despawns. that can be your safe spot because it is in the middle of empty space no one who doesnt have the bookmark or combat probes can find you

King Rothgar
Autocannons Anonymous
Posted - 2011.07.10 04:06:00 - [19]
 

Some border systems are more dangerous than others. The ones that are dangerous are those along major pipes and those that are small isolated pockets. Decon is an example of an isolated pocket. It's always been one of my favorite hunting spots for the random and generally not overly blobby traffic. Major pipe systems like amamake, egghelende and rancer are even more dangerous. Stay well away from those unless you're looking for trouble. There greater and better armed traffic results in larger blobbier pirate corps (ie heratic army). Other systems however aren't all that bad. I can't name any off the top of my head as I don't spend time in them, but some of those low sec borders well off the beaten path are pretty safe. Of course, if you dive deeper into low sec it gets almost as safe as high sec. There are more than a few systems that you can spend hours in without ever seeing another player.

Cattegirn
Intellectual Wookies
Posted - 2011.07.10 16:25:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Bormegil
Sounds like an awfully lot of trouble for some slightly better ores. Now, I could be entirely wrong, and maybe you've run all the numbers on it (or maybe you're just looking for an exciting time, which is something else altogether), but I simply can't see how abandoning Orca support, downgrading from Hulks, sending your ore an entire system away and taking pilots that could be used to mine and instead placing them as scouts/sentries will do anything but kill your profit. Not to mention etc. etc.


You know come to think of it this is the exact same problem low-sec has with attracting ratters and mission runners. The tiny increase in rewards doesn't even come close to compensating for all the other inconveniences and risks there are in low. I'm curious what low-sec is actually intended for given the structure...

Sorry don't mean to hijack the thread.

King Rothgar
Autocannons Anonymous
Posted - 2011.07.10 20:04:00 - [21]
 

Low sec has it's benefits. I've lived there reasonably happily for years. The pve content suits me as does the pvp. It has better missions (lvl5's, FW lvl4's) and better exploration sites. But they are really only worth while if you actually live there full time. You have to make friends with the locals or create your own little patch. In a lot of ways it's like null sec, just on a smaller scale. Going 30 jumps into null sec once a week to belt rat isn't a good use of game time and doing that for low sec isn't worth it either. You have to go there and setup shop in order to see any gains.

As previously said, survival isn't really an issue. I haven't lost a non-pvp ship in low sec (or null) to players in years. Once you know the game mechanics, it's basically impossible for anyone to sneak up on you. As such, the only time you will get ganked is if you bite a bait or under-estimate a target. You have to be looking for trouble in order to find it. But that's assuming you know what you're doing. It does take some time to figure things out.Wink


 

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