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Lastari Bathania
Posted - 2011.07.03 17:17:00 - [1]
 

I've been told several times that it's stupid to use Amarr ships for missioning because of the better damage type flexibility of other races. I'm already in the Amarr race pretty deep and don't have the time (rather the patience) to start another race just yet. I'm looking for some effective ideas for mission fits with either the Apoc or a Geddon, and possibly even some thoughts on which one would be better. I'm having difficulty tanking Lvl 4 missions because I haven't the most effective T2 armor mods or fits.

Someone please help a desperate nooby! Crying or Very sad

Navaris Dreadblade
Posted - 2011.07.03 18:12:00 - [2]
 

It's going to be SLOW if you're not in Amarr space (and almost a stand-still if you're in Minmatar), but here's a good starter Apoc fit for low skills related to Amarr Battleships. The Apocalypse is much easier on low SP pilots because it has range and cap bonuses, which help tremendously before t2 Mega Pulses. The Armageddon also requires high drone skills (t2 sentries) to be really effective, because it has one less turret slot than the Apoc or Abaddon.

[Apocalypse, L4 PvE]

Low:
2x Heat Sink II
4x Mission Specific Hardeners
1x Imperial Navy Large Armor Repairer

Mid:
4x Cap Recharger II

(Alternatively, fit a Tracking Computer if you have good cap skills)

High:
8x Mega Modulated Energy Beam I; Imperial Navy Multifrequency

(I would carry MF, Standard, and Microwave ammo for differing ranges)

Rigs:
3x Large Capacitor Control Circuit I

(If you don't have AWU, you may need an Anciliary Current Router)

Also

Originally by: "Lastari Bathania"
I'm having difficulty tanking Lvl 4 missions because I haven't the most effective T2 armor mods or fits.


Think you answered a big part of your own question. If you intend to armor tank for any significant time, T2 Hardeners/Reppers are a must.

Ef Ahak
Posted - 2011.07.03 20:24:00 - [3]
 

I'll add a bit of perspective to the issue and you do what you want with it ofc:

A while ago I was in a similar situation as OP. However, I had the armor/rep etc at T2 before I could fly a BS. As I was (am) rather low on SP, and I did a lot of research on it - I came to the conclusion that I would get an apocalypse - after all, everyone was saying the cap/range would benefit a low SP player.

So I went and bought one and fitted it with pulses. The problem is - even with the range bonus on the apoc - pulses without scorch are still... not that mightily ranged. My dps was crap and I moved like a snail.

I bought an Abaddon instead - dispite the general "no-good-for-low-sp" attitude circling. It was the best decision ever. And guess what - I fitted *beams* on it. They have a little lower RoF but the fact that you can use Multifreq crystals at significantly longer ranges makes up for it - at least in my opinion.

It is also good to realize that the large pulses aren't necessarily the given "frig killers". They are simply not fast enough for many of the frigs and your drones will have to take care of them regardless of pulse or beams equipped. Being able to take out most of the frigs at 70-80km is, in my experience, a lot more worth than a little better tracking at close range.

So, in no way am I arguing that Apoc don't have good stats for low SP players. What I do want to state, is that a beam Baddon works really well too, and that the choice if far from black/white.

This is ofc a personal opinion, but be aware that I started with an Apoc - gave it the chance I had read would be the 'best' and simply got dissapointed. There is no lvl4 I cannot solo in the beam Baddon (meta4 beams, mods are T2/faction, T2 drones), but I do switch to pulses when doing certain Angels missions.

I have not tried the Geddon, but as I understand it, it doesn't shine untill high drone skills. It's cheap though, which makes 'testing' a lot easier.

*If* you go with an Apoc or Geddon, doing lvl4s, I would probably still advice you to use beam lasers. I realize this isn't the normal advice, but as I said - even with the Apoc range bonus - pulses will stop short sometimes, and I really think a pulse Apoc doesn't shine until you get scorch (which I assume you don't have?). Kiting is a good tactics in a lot of 4s as well and jumping into the fray with low sp - pulses blazing - might get you killed.

Just a little perspective. Good luck whatever you choose!

NoNah
Posted - 2011.07.03 21:14:00 - [4]
 

Amarr have some of the best ships for missions there is. Paladin is probably top5, but definitely top 10. That said, if you're looking at the lower variants, I would as above suggest the abaddon, it's rather easy to tank, and you can fit it even with rather poor skills. Your income will be terrible, pilots of equal age flying domis or ravens will be lightyears ahead, but it shouldn't be any problem atleast completing the missions. While your cap skills are low I would suggest using a cap injected setup, which will not only teach you a thing or two about cap management for the future but allow you to more or less circumvent all the capacitor skillrequirements.

If however you're stuck on the geddon apoc route, for whatever reason, know that it's even a step slower than the abaddon, and a bit harder for SP-less pilots. You can still turn it halfdecent, and I'll go ahead and post a paladin-like setup of how I would fly it if I were to. Consider it some food for thought if anything.

Oh, and as for your skills and t2 gear, the tank should be more than fine with t1 stuff, however you'll need to sacrifice quite a few slots on it. Worst case look at the cheaper faction gear which tends to be quite cheap - especially if you shop around a bit.


[Apocalypse, Mission Shield]
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Republic Fleet Tracking Enhancer
Republic Fleet Tracking Enhancer
Republic Fleet Tracking Enhancer

Pithum A-Type Medium Shield Booster
Pith A-Type Heat Dissipation Field
Pith A-Type Heat Dissipation Field
Pith A-Type Heat Dissipation Field

Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L

Large Capacitor Control Circuit II
Large Capacitor Control Circuit II
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I

Ultim8Evil
Ministry Of Eternal Disorder
Posted - 2011.07.03 21:44:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: NoNah
[Apocalypse, Mission Shield]
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Republic Fleet Tracking Enhancer
Republic Fleet Tracking Enhancer
Republic Fleet Tracking Enhancer

Pithum A-Type Medium Shield Booster
Pith A-Type Heat Dissipation Field
Pith A-Type Heat Dissipation Field
Pith A-Type Heat Dissipation Field

Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L

Large Capacitor Control Circuit II
Large Capacitor Control Circuit II
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I



What has been seen cannot be unseen Shocked

VR Highfive
Amarr
Raptor Industries
Art of War Alliance
Posted - 2011.07.03 23:33:00 - [6]
 

Hey,

I fly missions in amarr ships. I am assuming you want to fit a BS for lvl 4 missions am I right?

I use a simular fit to this:

[Armageddon, T1 dual pulse Pve]

7x Dual Heavy Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I
(Imperial Navy cristals , multi frequency, standard and radio L)

3x Eutectic I Capacitor Charge Array

Large 'Accommodation' Vestment Reconstructer I
2x N-Type Kinetic Hardener I
2x N-Type Explosive Hardener I
2x Beta Reactor Control: Capacitor Power Relay I
Extruded Heat Sink I

5x Hobgoblin I
5x Warrior I
3x Berserker I

I have also used fits with 2 armor reps to tank damage spikes (swapped the heat sink) but ofcousre then u loose the cap stability.

I kept all the modules T1. Just swap for T2 if you can. Try to fit meta 4 modules if you can afford them and can't use T2. At least as high meta as you can.

I prefer the Geddon over the Apoc. Mainly because its cheaper:)and it does the job well.

0/


Lastari Bathania
Posted - 2011.07.04 03:16:00 - [7]
 

These are all great ideas, thanks guys. My main problem though is holding my tank, it will break in most lvl4 missions, either by breaking or simply loosing cap stability. Here's my Apoc fit


[Apocalypse, Apoc MoFo's!!!]
Heat Sink II
Mission specific N-type hardeners 4x
Large 'Accommodation' Vestment Reconstructer I
Large 'Accommodation' Vestment Reconstructer I

Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II

Dual Modulated Heavy Energy Beam I, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L
Dual Modulated Heavy Energy Beam I, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L
Dual Modulated Heavy Energy Beam I, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L
Dual Modulated Heavy Energy Beam I, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L
Dual Modulated Heavy Energy Beam I, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L
Dual Modulated Heavy Energy Beam I, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L
Dual Modulated Heavy Energy Beam I, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L
Dual Modulated Heavy Energy Beam I, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L

Capacitor Control Circuit I
Capacitor Control Circuit I
Auxiliary Nano Pump I

Hobgoblin II 5x
Hammerhead II 5x

I have been curious about the Abaddon but I haven't tried it as of yet. It's extremely frustrating when I can tank some missions and then some of them I just end up paying for repairs on structure. It's not very conducive to earning money in all honesty.

Also, I've never heard of shield tanking in an Amarr T1 BS.

AstroPhobic
Minmatar
Holding Corp
Posted - 2011.07.04 04:33:00 - [8]
 

Edited by: AstroPhobic on 04/07/2011 04:41:16
Drop one of those armor reps for another heatsink. Your tank is actually very large, but you don't have enough DPS to reduce incoming damage.

edit: a herp a derp

Salen Kane
Amarr
Ginnungagaps Rymdfarargille
Posted - 2011.07.04 05:17:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Lastari Bathania
These are all great ideas, thanks guys. My main problem though is holding my tank, it will break in most lvl4 missions, either by breaking or simply loosing cap stability. Here's my Apoc fit


[Apocalypse, Apoc MoFo's!!!]
Heat Sink II
Mission specific N-type hardeners 4x
Large 'Accommodation' Vestment Reconstructer I
Large 'Accommodation' Vestment Reconstructer I

Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II

Dual Modulated Heavy Energy Beam I, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L
Dual Modulated Heavy Energy Beam I, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L
Dual Modulated Heavy Energy Beam I, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L
Dual Modulated Heavy Energy Beam I, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L
Dual Modulated Heavy Energy Beam I, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L
Dual Modulated Heavy Energy Beam I, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L
Dual Modulated Heavy Energy Beam I, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L
Dual Modulated Heavy Energy Beam I, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L

Capacitor Control Circuit I
Capacitor Control Circuit I
Auxiliary Nano Pump I

Hobgoblin II 5x
Hammerhead II 5x

I have been curious about the Abaddon but I haven't tried it as of yet. It's extremely frustrating when I can tank some missions and then some of them I just end up paying for repairs on structure. It's not very conducive to earning money in all honesty.

Also, I've never heard of shield tanking in an Amarr T1 BS.


When I was new to the game, I did exactly what you are doing; I tried to get into lvl 4 missions in amarr BS as soon as possible because I thought lvl 4s were where the money was at. I even made the mistake of getting a 'geddon as my mission runner, and didn't have the skills or knowledge (or money!) to outfit it correctly; I think mine actually had T1 heavy kinetic drones!

Anyway, what I learned was this: if you cant T2 fit it, you're usually better off running lvl3s in a harbinger. Amarr BS are very effective mission runners, but they require a fair bit of support skills to really shine. Im not saying you cant run them in an apocalypse or abbadon (cap boosted abbadon can be a decent low SP option, as long as you make sure you keep track of your booster charges), but as you have mentioned the isk usually wont be very fast and it is often frustrating.

It seems to me your main problem is going to be DPS. With only 1 heatsink and downgraded weapons, you aren't killing very fast, which means your tank takes more of a beating (not to mention your isk/hour rate suffers). Using your setup in EFT, with my own skills (some 54 mil SP devoted to combat, and mainly amarr ships) it barely breaks 500dps. While this isn't terribly bad, it isn't the fastest killing out there (and against anything except EM-weak NPCs, it will be terribly slow).

I'd stay away from lvl 4 missions until you can T2 fit your ship, but if you're set on it, make sure you read up on the missions before you go. If you're having trouble surviving with that kind of tank, its likely that you're engaging more NPCs than you have to. http://eve-survival.org has reports of all missions (take what you read with a grain of salt, though), and knowing what you're up against BEFORE going in can make your missions much easier.

Amarr ships in general are great for missions, btw. As long as its in amarr space. If you're mostly up against gallante or caldari ships it will be worse, and dont even think of using them in minmatar space! I just decline missions that put me against NPCs with high EM resist nowadays. Not worth the hassle.

Crabs Collector
Posted - 2011.07.04 09:50:00 - [10]
 

Here is a lowskill abaddon fit with only 1 faction module. Change hardeners depending on the rats youre fighting.

[Abaddon, Missioning]
Power Diagnostic System II
Imperial Navy Large Armor Repairer
N-Type EM Hardener I
N-Type Thermic Hardener I
N-Type Adaptive Nano Membrane I
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II

Optical Tracking Computer I, Tracking Speed
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II

Mega Modulated Energy Beam I, Multifrequency L
Mega Modulated Energy Beam I, Multifrequency L
Mega Modulated Energy Beam I, Multifrequency L
Mega Modulated Energy Beam I, Multifrequency L
Mega Modulated Energy Beam I, Multifrequency L
Mega Modulated Energy Beam I, Multifrequency L
Mega Modulated Energy Beam I, Multifrequency L
Mega Modulated Energy Beam I, Multifrequency L

Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I


Hammerhead II x5

The abaddon is an excellent ship if you have low skills because of the damage and tanking bonus. The cap issues can be solved with rigs and modules. Beams are easily the best weapon to fit on this boat, but a tracking computer with tracking speed scripted is a must. Have fun!

Dorah Hawkwing
Old Galactic Earth Regiment
Dragoon Federation
Posted - 2011.07.04 10:42:00 - [11]
 

Edited by: Dorah Hawkwing on 04/07/2011 10:49:24
I've used this for years on missions, even before the apoc changes. Of course now flying a Paladin, so moot.

What you want is to have BS at least at a 4, as it reduces the cap use of the guns substantially. 4 to 5 is actually the biggest reduction, at 20% overall. The advantage of the apoc is it's monster cap. The Abbadon has higher resists and bigger fittings, but no energy reduction for the guns and that will be felt in longer missions.
You usually use drones to take out smaller stuff like frigs, train for at least 5 drones, and combat drone operation. The other skills are nice for more range and faster drones, but those 2 determine your DPS. Take a flight of smalls and one of mediums.

Apoc, mission:
8* Mega Pulse
Afterburner, 3* cap recharger
1 LAR, 4 mission specific hardeners, cap power relays.
You might consider fitting a MAR instead of a CPR if you feel comfy.

Range with infrared crystals should be 50+ km's. wWich is good for most missions, and you actually can move with the AB. Just switvch it off if you need the cap for tanking and shooting.

If you feel confident after awhie, consider swapping a cap recharger for a targetting computer for more range/tracking.

A Navy Apoc offers even more low slots and higher base armor at a nowadays reasonable price. You can add a heatsink to it, just remember not to use guns, ab and the reppers all at once, or you may bleed dry of cap. You can even pause a bit fi the tank holds and just use the drones to remove some small ships before using the guns again.

Allways kill the frigs first as they are scrambling somethims in lvl 4's.

PS: Energy management skills, and the gunery skills reducing cap consumption are your friends.

Dorah Hawkwing
Old Galactic Earth Regiment
Dragoon Federation
Posted - 2011.07.04 10:48:00 - [12]
 

PS: Amarr BS are fine. Minmatar Navy may be the hardest foes you face in terms of their resistances. On the other hand, I used a geddon to burn through tripple 1.8 mill BS spawns up in guerista space sucessfully a lot. So.. take your pick and fly.

Only mission wich should cause difficulties should be enemies abound 5/5, that one requires patience, warpoffs or a good ship with good skills. (the Darkanas.. either you tank for them and then have troubles killing them, or you go for HS and they chew you up. And they stay at 45 km's. And a lot spawn over time.

*grin* First time I've ever flown that I used a geddon with tripple plates dual LAR and dual pulses just to snipe a frig and get out.. repeat untill the whole room became manageable.. as I had taken so long as to spawn every ship in the mission on me. But those are the fun challenges missioning.

Also, don't worry about loosing a ship or five learning new missions. It happens, and you make more isk doing lvl 4's than you can spend on a resonable mission ship anyways.. (Shoo, shoo the nightmare advocates#9

K'iran
Spirit of EVE
Posted - 2011.07.04 12:21:00 - [13]
 

Amarr laser boats are limited in their damage type, this is true ofcourse, but make up for it with massive amounts of dps and range versatility (if fitted correctly). Even then you really want to avoid fighting Angel and related stuff, so partially people are correct in saying that Amarr is quite limited, partly they have no clue as they haven't used a properly fitted Amarr ship.

The best non-faction/T2 Amarr BS is the Abaddon, don't believe people who say that it's a massive cap hog at lower SP (because it's always one, regardless of your SP :P). Thing is that the other two BS need TWO skills to lower cap usage; Controlled Burst but also the BS skill itself, and unless you have both up properly they'll still use cap like a madman. The Abaddon only needs one skill, Controlled Bursts.

The real answer to the cap problem isn't so much skills, it's making use of a cap booster and by doing so all of a sudden the cap issues are mostly gone, making the Abaddon THE ship of choice due to it's resists, fitting and high dps. The Abaddon starts to shine once you can use T2 large pulses, you solve your NPC problems with massive amounts of dps, not with tanking.

Here's a fit to give you an idea, showing how fitting a cap booster opens up midslots for more important stuff (this also works for the other BS's). The extra hardener can be replaced for another HS at some point, once you feel at ease with the low tank. Realise though that this fit (and any fit that maximises dps, as it should) requires you to know what you're doing, mission wise.

[Abaddon, LVL 4]
Imperial Navy Large Armor Repairer
Armor EM Hardener II
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink

100MN Afterburner II
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range
Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800

Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L

Large Energy Locus Coordinator II
Large Energy Discharge Elutriation II
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I


Hobgoblin II x5
Curator II x2

Templatus
Posted - 2011.07.04 14:19:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Salen Kane
Anyway, what I learned was this: if you cant T2 fit it, you're usually better off running lvl3s in a harbinger. Amarr BS are very effective mission runners, but they require a fair bit of support skills to really shine. Im not saying you cant run them in an apocalypse or abbadon (cap boosted abbadon can be a decent low SP option, as long as you make sure you keep track of your booster charges), but as you have mentioned the isk usually wont be very fast and it is often frustrating.
You provide some useful information, but I have to disagree with you on this. My personal experience from moving from the T1 Beam/Hardener Harbinger to the T1 Tachyon/Hardener Abaddon was that I made a lot more ISK/Hour. I've never lost a battleship, and moving from the Abaddon to the Paladin was simply just more money in the wallet.

Besides, I think overtanking an Abaddon/Apocalypse/Whatever and slow-poking L4 missions still gives you more ISK/Hour than doing L3s in a Harbinger.


 

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