open All Channels
seplocked Science and Industry
blankseplocked T2 Drone Invention/Production
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Author Topic

OllieNorth
Gallente
R-K Industries
Posted - 2011.07.03 16:26:00 - [1]
 

Hi all, as a carebear, I look at t2 drone prices and have convulsions, so I was thinking about getting into inventing/producing them. I have an alt that I have started on production skills, and I was trying to figure out if this is in any way worthwhile to start with.

Looking through the guides I saw that drones seem to be difficult since you can't use one to increase your success chances. That being said, is it still worth looking at?

TL;DR new to invention, worth starting with t2 drones?

Llambda
Space Llama Industries
Posted - 2011.07.03 16:52:00 - [2]
 

Edited by: Llambda on 03/07/2011 16:52:23
I did alright on drones when I first started doing production, but for personal use quantities I would just stick to buying them.

OllieNorth
Gallente
R-K Industries
Posted - 2011.07.03 17:29:00 - [3]
 

I was planning to manufacture them for profit and just replenish my own as a side benefit.

Melchiades Seti
Posted - 2011.07.03 18:11:00 - [4]
 

I think you will find they are more expensive to make than you think. The prices out there are pretty reasonable these days. If it is only for personal use, it is cheaper to just buy them. (You go through datacores like water, and then there's a bunch of PI stuff like robotics.) Don't go into making them unless you really want to get into it as your business. They are made 10 at a time, and the invention and manufacturing part are relatively fast, so it keeps you busy.

OllieNorth
Gallente
R-K Industries
Posted - 2011.07.03 18:30:00 - [5]
 

So you're saying it's more of something to do once you have a good RP pipeline going. Alright, thank you for the advice guys.

Mara Villoso
Posted - 2011.07.03 19:55:00 - [6]
 

Edited by: Mara Villoso on 03/07/2011 19:58:14
Edited by: Mara Villoso on 03/07/2011 19:56:34
I made a small fortune on Warrior II's. It's one of the easier T2 invention/production lines to setup. If you actually want to make real money, you need to produce your own T2 components.

Producing copies is something of a bottleneck. Drone invention is a 50% success chance and the invention time is 1 hr. I would run missions or do some hauling, logging into my invention alts once every hour or so.

You run T2 comp production and T1 drone production simultaneously with your blueprint copying and invention runs. When you're done, you're ready to produce the T2s. If you run a tight ship and have a few alts you can produce huge numbers quickly.

I ran a quick, approximate calculation on Warrior II's with today's prices and its roughly a 90% profit margin. Go forth and get rich!

edit: Buy your datacores. You'll never farm enough to keep up.
edit 2: http://www.xn7.de is awesome

Zifrian
Deep Space Innovations
Posted - 2011.07.04 01:57:00 - [7]
 

I used to think that drones was where the isk was but meh...they sell fast so they are pretty good but it all depends on if you are looking for profit or you want to maximize your isk per hour.

Here is an idea on what kind of isk per hour and profit you would make per drone building components.

http://img824.imageshack.us/img824/4281/newpicture1fx.png

Still a beta program I'm working on but the numbers should be good for my skills (manufacturing and invention) and BP ME's I have. Assumes no invention time (invent while manufacturing). This discussion did give me an idea though for displaying profit margin (in %) instead of isk. Smile


Edwin McAlister
Posted - 2011.07.04 05:15:00 - [8]
 

i produce my own PI stuff (robotics and guidance systems) for it and get the datacores myself, there is only 1 part i purchase off market, which is the particle accelerator unit, very good profits, minimal investment of time on my part,

depends on how much time your willing to invest in doing it, it can be profitable but its not gonna make you a billionaire overnight

Llambda
Space Llama Industries
Posted - 2011.07.04 05:19:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Edwin McAlister
i produce my own PI stuff (robotics and guidance systems) for it and get the datacores myself, there is only 1 part i purchase off market, which is the particle accelerator unit, very good profits, minimal investment of time on my part,

depends on how much time your willing to invest in doing it, it can be profitable but its not gonna make you a billionaire overnight


*cringe*

Mara Villoso
Posted - 2011.07.04 05:38:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Zifrian
Text

ISK/hr of what?

Zifrian
Deep Space Innovations
Posted - 2011.07.04 11:46:00 - [11]
 

Edited by: Zifrian on 04/07/2011 11:51:50
Originally by: Mara Villoso
Originally by: Zifrian
Text

ISK/hr of what?


How much time it takes you to manufacture the item vs. how much profit you will make. If it takes you 1 hour to make 100 isk for item A and 2 hours to make 100 isk for item B, Item A gets you more isk per hour.

Great example:

Originally by: Edwin McAlister
depends on how much time your willing to invest in doing it, it can be profitable but its not gonna make you a billionaire overnight


Why spend so much time doing that when you can make more by maximizing your isk per hour? YARRRR!!


Miss Rabblt
Posted - 2011.07.04 13:47:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: OllieNorth
Hi all, as a carebear, I look at t2 drone prices and have convulsions, so I was thinking about getting into inventing/producing them.

little offtop here.

when i was 1 month old i have had this feeling too. "WTF with t2 drones??? Sometime i loose 5-6 drones at a mission. I can't afford loosing 500k drone"....

However some day you will become competent with drones and stop to loose them. And drone prices would not look ridiculos to you. Just learn to pay attention to drones, manage aggro, repair them time by time.

DeODokktor
Caldari
Dark Templars
The Fonz Presidium
Posted - 2011.07.04 14:28:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Edwin McAlister
i produce my own PI stuff (robotics and guidance systems) for it and get the datacores myself, there is only 1 part i purchase off market, which is the particle accelerator unit, very good profits, minimal investment of time on my part,

depends on how much time your willing to invest in doing it, it can be profitable but its not gonna make you a billionaire overnight


Nothing is FREE, IF YOU COULD SELL IT, THEN YOU MUST FACTOR IN THE AVERAGE VALUE OF THE ITEM......
If you mine, the MINERALS DO HAVE VALUE.
If your doing R&D then the DATACORES DO HAVE VALUE.
If your scanning plexes then the DECRYPTORS DO HAVE VALUE.
If your copying the tech1 bpo to make your own bpc's then THOSE BPCS DO HAVE VALUE.
If your using meta2+ items in your invention to increase your chances, even if you got them from missin running THEY DO HAVE VALUE.

If your pal gives you FREE minerals worth 100 mil, and you use poop skills and make a battleship for 60 mil, then you have decreased the value of your final asset.
WHEN DOING INVENTION OR PRODUCTION, ALL MATERIALS HAVE A VALUE...



DeODokktor
Caldari
Dark Templars
The Fonz Presidium
Posted - 2011.07.04 14:31:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: OllieNorth
Hi all, as a carebear, I look at t2 drone prices and have convulsions, so I was thinking about getting into inventing/producing them. I have an alt that I have started on production skills, and I was trying to figure out if this is in any way worthwhile to start with.

Looking through the guides I saw that drones seem to be difficult since you can't use one to increase your success chances. That being said, is it still worth looking at?

TL;DR new to invention, worth starting with t2 drones?


Ideally your invention skills will all be at level V before you start.
Drones have some of the highest profit per item, but profit per click def doesnt win out.
A lot of us go by profit per click, but if your a trigger happy kinda guy then you may want to just concentrate on profit per item.
You can also base profit on time, but those numbers are not easy to gleam.

Lutz Major
Posted - 2011.07.04 14:54:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: DeODokktor
Ideally your invention skills will all be at level V before you start.
Are you crazy? Level III or better IV is sufficient. Just factor in, that your invention probability is a bit lower.

Originally by: DeODokktor
A lot of us go by profit per click, but if your a trigger happy kinda guy then you may want to just concentrate on profit per item.
You can also base profit on time, but those numbers are not easy to gleam.
Huh? profit per click? So you are doing Jump Frighter Invention? Click one: Copy BPO. Wait a month. Click Two: invent. Wait again. Cool advice!

DeODokktor
Caldari
Dark Templars
The Fonz Presidium
Posted - 2011.07.04 15:32:00 - [16]
 

Edited by: DeODokktor on 04/07/2011 15:35:18
Originally by: Lutz Major
Originally by: DeODokktor
Ideally your invention skills will all be at level V before you start.
Are you crazy? Level III or better IV is sufficient. Just factor in, that your invention probability is a bit lower.

Originally by: DeODokktor
A lot of us go by profit per click, but if your a trigger happy kinda guy then you may want to just concentrate on profit per item.
You can also base profit on time, but those numbers are not easy to gleam.
Huh? profit per click? So you are doing Jump Frighter Invention? Click one: Copy BPO. Wait a month. Click Two: invent. Wait again. Cool advice!


Yea, JF's are a good indication of profit per click.
Light tech2 ammo can yeild the higest profit per item, but you dont see people jumping in droves to do it, why, not enough profit per click!...

And using your above site, you can see that your chance for say a rhea, using a +1r decryptor (popular due to the +1 pl) has a crappy chance of 45.36%
Each attempt cost...
So Decryptor = 6m
Charon bpc = 65m
Starship datacore = 64 @ 58k/u = 3.712m
Mech Eng datacore = 64 @ 175k/u = 11.2m
Or 85.912m per ATTEMPT....
If you get the rate listed on your sheet, then a single rhea bpc cost 189.4 mil to invent.
Those bpc's currently sell for 140m/unit (one on contracts right now for 130m!)..

So SURE we can count profit per click, But as each bpc right now delivers a 59.4 mill LOSS then I doubt the OP will consider such an Item.
As I said, Tech1 bpc's have value, you dont need to be mentally deficent and copy your own tech1 freighter to invent, YOU BUY THE BPC....
THE TECH1 BPC HAS VALUE, IF YOU DIDNT BUY IT YOU COULD SELL IT, SO IT HAS VALUE, SO BUY IT.....
Let someone else be a pud for a month..

But hey, If you want to point out a helpful webpage to me, then feel free.

Mara Villoso
Posted - 2011.07.04 16:01:00 - [17]
 

Edited by: Mara Villoso on 04/07/2011 16:05:50
Enough with the all caps, dude.

The relevant statistic is profit per slot per hr. However, that isn't necessarily the best gauge of overall profitability. The calculators never factor in rate of sales. Nor do they factor in liquid capital concerns, logistics, or volatility. For example, the per slot profit on T1 BS is very high, but the ROI averages only 6-7% and the BPO investments are huge (hint: you need more than one of any type or you can only fill one production slot). The capital necessary to keep the production line going on 10 BS 24/7 is enormous (like 30+ billion). Not to mention hauling all those minerals and then the finished product. Factor in the cutthroat competition and the absolutely relentless .01 isk-ing, and BS production starts to look less appealing to smaller producers. Also, at that kind of production level, you have to start putting out your own buy orders in Jita to keep up with volume, which puts you into a whole different realm of the trading game.

To the OP: T2 drone invention and production is an excellent way to get started. You can make really good money. The ROI (return on investment) is 90%. The capital investment in BPOs and a POS are small (if you can buy invention copies, you can do without the POS) and the capital necessary to produce a significant number of them is only a few hundred million. They sell quickly and while there is competition, the overall sales volume is enough to keep everyone happy. Good luck!

edit: JF's are a really bad example of any kind of profit. Have you ever tried to sell one? The volume is incredibly low, the production line is incredibly complex, and the time involved is huge. Just take a look at the copy time on a freighter BPO. The investment costs are also staggering. You also couldn't form a production line on the basis of copies on contracts. That's most likely someone dumping stock.

Zifrian
Deep Space Innovations
Posted - 2011.07.04 17:38:00 - [18]
 

Edited by: Zifrian on 04/07/2011 17:40:49
Originally by: Mara Villoso
The relevant statistic is profit per slot per hr. However, that isn't necessarily the best gauge of overall profitability. The calculators never factor in rate of sales. Nor do they factor in liquid capital concerns, logistics, or volatility. For example, the per slot profit on T1 BS is very high, but the ROI averages only 6-7% and the BPO investments are huge (hint: you need more than one of any type or you can only fill one production slot). The capital necessary to keep the production line going on 10 BS 24/7 is enormous (like 30+ billion). Not to mention hauling all those minerals and then the finished product. Factor in the cutthroat competition and the absolutely relentless .01 isk-ing, and BS production starts to look less appealing to smaller producers. Also, at that kind of production level, you have to start putting out your own buy orders in Jita to keep up with volume, which puts you into a whole different realm of the trading game.


You are absolutely correct. For my program, you can just multiply that number by 10 as I can run 10 slots (multiplying the runs by 10 actually adds more time and the iph is the same). You can do the same with any others. But I never said choose the item on my list and go with the top one. Not having a spreadsheet or calc you aren't starting with good information. Drones are great isk per hour and they sell super fast. However, what happens when the market is saturated? I've had times where the drones took forever to sell. What do you sell next? This is where trying to have something to figure out what would bring you the best profit/isk per hour is good and then you can factor your time and other mats into everything else that a calculator will never be able to give you.


Mad Constructor
Mad Industrys
Posted - 2011.07.04 20:01:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Zifrian
I used to think that drones was where the isk was but meh...they sell fast so they are pretty good but it all depends on if you are looking for profit or you want to maximize your isk per hour.

Here is an idea on what kind of isk per hour and profit you would make per drone building components.

http://img824.imageshack.us/img824/4281/newpicture1fx.png

Still a beta program I'm working on but the numbers should be good for my skills (manufacturing and invention) and BP ME's I have. Assumes no invention time (invent while manufacturing). This discussion did give me an idea though for displaying profit margin (in %) instead of isk. Smile




That's looking like a nice program. Need someone to help bata test?

Zifrian
Deep Space Innovations
Posted - 2011.07.04 20:35:00 - [20]
 

Yeah, I'll forward the link to you when I get it to a point where I want to test again. Did some earlier testing but now working through all the issues and such. Hoping to have something up again soon.

Thanks for offering. Smile

Lutz Major
Posted - 2011.07.05 06:32:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: DeODokktor
... And using your above site, you can see that your chance for say a rhea, using a +1r decryptor (popular due to the +1 pl) has a crappy chance of 45.36%
Each attempt cost...
So Decryptor = 6m
Charon bpc = 65m
Starship datacore = 64 @ 58k/u = 3.712m
Mech Eng datacore = 64 @ 175k/u = 11.2m
Or 85.912m per ATTEMPT....
If you get the rate listed on your sheet, then a single rhea bpc cost 189.4 mil to invent.
Those bpc's currently sell for 140m/unit (one on contracts right now for 130m!).
You might take some closer looks, before you try to lecture someone.

Those contracts are all for the +4 run with a 1.8 probability increase. So your skills all to V, the probability is ~68% or with your numbers around 125M.
So not really a loss, when this print would be sold.

The BPCs with your mentioned stats run about 300M.

Ginger Lovesponge
Posted - 2011.07.06 12:15:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Zifrian
http://img824.imageshack.us/img824/4281/newpicture1fx.png

OMG, that looks awesome, DO WANT!

Dr Caymus
Gallente
Applied Technologies Inc
Agents of Fortune
Posted - 2011.07.06 14:11:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Edwin McAlister
i produce my own PI stuff (robotics and guidance systems)


Why would you produce Guidance Systems when they can be purchased on the market for less than half of what the materials used in their production are worth?

Why is this so? Because tens of millions of units of Guidance Systems were purchased at NPC prices by speculators {{cough, cough}} before PI went live, and millions of those units are still for sale on the market.

Buy Guidance versus make, free up one or more PI facilities for more productive use, and increase your profits! Cool

Dr Caymus
-=ATI=-




 

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only